I tell all. Don’t miss this . . .

Enjoy . . .

__________________

My summary/high points:

• “Jesusanity is an attempt to have a high view of Jesus without having a unique view of Jesus.”
• Christianity has become so culturally isolated that they don’t know how to engage people about Christ.
• Christians know a lot about what the Bible says, but not much about the Bible (history, canon, text, etc.)
• The current “Jesus Crisis” is the fault of the church not truly educating the its people.
• Being prepared to represent Christ accurately requires study—hard study—and time.
• Christians need to recognize that we only need to get people to acknowledge that the Bible is “basically” true, we don’t need to force inerrancy down their throat. The closer they get to Jesus, the higher their view of the Bible will eventually be. In other words, get the Christology right and the bibliology will take care of itself.
• When Jesus performed miracles, he did not appeal to another authority. This makes his miracles unique.
• Revisionists say that “history is written by the winners.” Bock: Sometimes the winners deserve to win because they were right and this is why they won.
• Your friends and neighbors are watching the history channel, going to Barnes and Noble, and being overwhelmed by a culture that is fascinated with Jesus, but does not believe in the historic Christian Jesus (Jesusanity). We must be prepared to engage their views of Jesus and what they are being taught through these venues.
• Don’t start the Gospel with the debate over evolution and creation. You can get to that later, after you have introduced them to Christ.

#3 If I become a Christian, God will make me healthy and wealthy.

During this lesson, Lindsey and I draw from the Bible and personal experience concluding that the health-wealth Gospel is not only a different Gospel, but it represents a different God.

#3 If I become a Christian, it will make me happy.

Is this true? Listen to what they we have to say. (Forget Lindsey’s comments at the end )

Enroll in the Methods of Apologetics online course taught by Rob Bowman that starts next week.

For some reason the podpress plugin will not let me post them all the same way so the rest are just links here: (right-click to download)

Introduction to Apologetics Session 3b

Introduction to Apologetics Session 3c

Introduction to Apologetics Session 4a

Introduction to Apologetics Session 3b

Introduction to Apologetics Session 5a

Introduction to Apologetics Session 5b

Introduction to Apologetics Session 6a

Introduction to Apologetics Session 6b

Introduction to Apologetics Session 7a

Introduction to Apologetics Session 7b

Introduction to Apologetics Session 8a

Introduction to Apologetics Session 8b

Introduction to Apologetics Session 9a

Introduction to Apologetics Session 9b

I will follow up with the lesson that I taught during the seminar “Orthodoxy and the Emerging Church.”

Hope you enjoy.

Having discussed the God questions with you for quite some time, it would seem that we have come to an impasse in our conclusions concerning the evidence that the universe provides. I, on one hand, have argued that the intricacies of the universe from cosmology and biology compel any honest observer to the conclusion that there is a self-existent, all-powerful, intelligent, and personal force behind its genesis. As you said, and I agree, this does not necessitate the God of the Scriptures being this creator, but, upon concession, it would create common ground between you and I with regards to the existence and nature of the creator.

Unfortunately, common ground has not been created. You did not concede to my compelling but responded with many counter arguments of your own, explaining that your view of naturalism was the simplest most reasoned explanation. You concluded, therefore, “There is no need for a God hypothesis to explain the genesis of the universe. The rational arguments for atheism/naturalism should compel people to abandon belief in God.”

Your last letter had many counter arguments which led you to this rationale. I do wish to respond to these in time. Please forgive me, however, as I want to stop and examine something more expedient at this point. I want to deal with what I believe to be a self-defeating premise upon which your arguments stand.

My proposal for your consideration is this: To make a rational argument that people should not believe in a creator is self-defeating for two reasons: 1) There is no such thing as “rational argument” in your worldview and 2) There can be no place for moral statements such as “should” or “ought” in your worldview.

1) There is no such thing as a “rational argument” in your worldview.

You said in a previous letter that the universe came about by chance and that there was no personal agency behind its creation. You also said that “Chaos cancels creation” and that “Chaos is the foundation of the universe, not God.” If I were to grant this proposition, then I would out of necessity have to reject your arguments since they become necessarily chaotic.

Let me explain.

You define your arguments as “rational.” Rational is defined as “agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible.” Reason is defined as the ability “to form conclusions, judgments, or inferences from facts or premises.” An argument is made when the reasons for a position are explained in a compelling manner. The problem with positioning your stance in such a way is that it assumes that which it denies. If the genesis of existence has no reason or order, then the effect will carry the same attributes (remember, the effect cannot be greater than the cause). Yet you are saying that reason (the effect) came from chaos (the cause)? Rational arguments, in your worldview, can only amount to a conventional interpretation of the data that is subjectively held, but not universal truth. In other words, your “rational arguments” are not really rational at all. They are devoid of the power that they assume. All you are left with is the statement, “This is true for me according to my conventions that are random and chaotic, but it is not universally true in any way.” If this is the case, then a “rational argument” is not possible. In other words, you are borrowing from my theistic worldview where rational arguments are possible because of order and design. You use a theistic system in order to make your arguments against theism! This is self-defeating.

2) There is no place for moral statements such as “should” or “ought” in your worldview.

This is closely tied to the previous argument, but approaches it a little differently. If you believe that all that exists today is the result of a meaningless chaotic explosion 14 billion years ago, and that there was no personal agency then or now, then we are all destined to a worldview of fatalism. Fatalism is “the doctrine that all events are subject to fate or inevitable predetermination.” “Fate” is defined as “something that unavoidably befalls a person; fortune; lot.” The key here is “unavoidable.” Just like when a billiard ball hits another ball which starts a necessary (unavoidable) chain reaction without a personal determining agency, so also, according to your naturalistic worldview, all events that have transpired since the big bang are just as necessary (or unavoidable). There is no outside determining cause of the events. No freedom in any sense. As some people have put it “Naturalism has nothing outside the box.” All that is in the box is fatalistically due to a series of molecules bumping into each other. We may be billions of years beyond the first “strike of the ball” but we are still caught up in the motions having not only who we are, but why we are who we are determined by fate. Therefore, according to your worldview, there is no such thing as “should” or “ought,” only “is.” You are the way you are necessarily, not because of any good, wise, or rational decisions that you have made. Since all things are fatalistic, being determined by the first strike of the ball, you have no real “self-determinism.”

In order for you to come to the conclusions that you have and say that others “should” follow in the same suit, you would have to presuppose that they can, by their own self-determined free will, change their mind and do what they are morally compelled to do. But, once again, in order to have this type of expectation or demand, you would have to assume that chaos and fate are not the foundation for creation. You would have to assume either divine determinism of some sort or the divine gift of self-determinism. In other words, you are borrowing from my theistic worldview once again to make your argument! Therefore, once again, your argument is self-defeating.

I believe that you are intelligent because my worldview allows it even if yours cannot recognize intelligence! I believe that you “ought” to submit to God because my worldview allows for moral obligations even if yours cannot.

For a much more thorough presentation of this same type of argument, I suggestion you listen to Alvin Plantinga’s interview on Converse with Scholars called An Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism.

You can find it here. (Please forgive me as the audio is not the best. You get used to it after a while.)

Evolutionary Argument Against Atheism

I pray that this conversation is stimulating you to think more deeply about the presuppositions that you hold.

Truly,

Michael Patton