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	<title>Parchment and Pen &#187; Out on a limb</title>
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	<itunes:author>Parchment and Pen</itunes:author>
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		<title>&quot;Belief is No Good Without Practice&quot; . . . and Other Stupid Statements</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/belief-is-no-good-without-practice-and-other-stupid-statements/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/belief-is-no-good-without-practice-and-other-stupid-statements/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[. . . and other stupid statements]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christian Life]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Out on a limb]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Michael Patton]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1845</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It was in my expository preaching course that I learned it. It was driven into my teaching psyche and intended to become a part of my basic presupposed knowledge of ministry. Without it, all your preparation would be in vain. Lacking this, your message will fail to do what God actually intended it to do. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was in my expository preaching course that I learned it. It was driven into my teaching psyche and intended to become a part of my basic presupposed knowledge of ministry. Without it, all your preparation would be in vain. Lacking this, your message will fail to do what God <em>actually </em>intended it to do.</p>
<p>It is the message for a new generation. It is something emergers know and they <em>know </em>that they know it. It is what  I hear on blogs, read in books, and a continued favorite among those who are despondently depressed and shamed when surrounded by &#8220;fundamentalists.&#8221; It is pridefully stated as if this epiphany is going to miraculously wake a sleeping Evangelical culture of John MacArthur and John Piper groupies.</p>
<p>What is it?</p>
<p>&#8220;Belief is no good without practice.&#8221; Wake up and smell the manna!</p>
<p>Sounds reasonable doesn&#8217;t it. Let&#8217;s put it another way.</p>
<p>&#8220;Belief is not the end, it is a <em>means </em>to an end. The end is <em>doing </em>not believing.&#8221;</p>
<p>In preaching, it goes like this:</p>
<p>&#8220;If you don&#8217;t have a way in which people can apply the lesson to their lives <em>today</em>, you have not really done anything.&#8221;</p>
<p>Another:</p>
<p>&#8220;Introduction. Body. Three points of application.&#8221;</p>
<p>A friend said it the other day. We visited a church led by a young seeker-friendly preacher. After the lesson he said, &#8220;Now I <em>really </em>liked that sermon.&#8221; &#8220;Why?,&#8221; I asked. &#8220;Because it has so much application,&#8221; he responded. &#8220;That is what I need&#8212;application.&#8221;</p>
<p>The idea here is that belief, in and of itself, is not the end game that God has for us. God primarily wants us to be active in our practice. Good works, being nicer to people, acting out our love, giving to the poor, self-sacrifice, not cheating on tax-returns, avoiding certain web-sites, bringing home flowers to your wife, forgiving your father, protecting the unborn, knowing when to set down the beer, taking your daughter out on a date, remembering to say &#8220;I love you&#8221; (don&#8217;t just suppose they know), and trading your Hummer for a Honda. These are all things I can <em>do </em>today. This is what we need. Right?</p>
<p><em>emergentos moschos skubula</em></p>
<p>(Excuse the French). Nice translation: &#8220;What a load.&#8221;<span id="more-1845"></span></p>
<p>I am not saying that application is not important or that it is not an essential end. What I am saying is that it is not the only <em>or even</em> primary end.</p>
<p>God cares more about belief than he does practice. Belief, truth, doctrine, theology, and, yes, being correct, is more important than all the good works one can ever practice.</p>
<p>The &#8220;why&#8221; is more important than the &#8220;what.&#8221;</p>
<p>The &#8220;how come&#8221; is more important than the &#8220;when.&#8221;</p>
<p>The &#8220;because&#8221; is more foundational than the &#8220;so that.&#8221;</p>
<p>In fact, I believe the &#8220;what?&#8221; &#8220;when?&#8221; and &#8220;so that?&#8221; have no meaning outside the &#8220;why?&#8221; I also believe the &#8220;what&#8221; can exist alone in many cases and serve to bring great glory to God.</p>
<p>What I am saying is that God is glorified in our right belief. God receives great pleasure in correct doctrine. It is God&#8217;s <em>first </em>desire that we believe correctly. Belief, truth, doctrine, and theology are not merely a means to an end, but are the end themselves. Yes, this &#8220;end&#8221; will, more often than not, have natural consequences that will produce certain effects (i.e. good works), but the substance is in the truth <em>understood </em>and <em>believed</em>.</p>
<p>Oh that Jeremiah could be resurrected and speak to this pragmatic generation who wants to set aside knowledge and understanding for minimally based practice. He may say what he said before:</p>
<p><a class="bibleref" title="Jeremiah 9:23-24" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Jeremiah%209.23-24/">Jeremiah 9:23-24</a>  &#8220;Thus says the LORD, &#8220;Let not a wise man boast of his wisdom, and let not the mighty man boast of his might, let not a rich man boast of his riches;  but let him who boasts boast of this, <em>that he understands and knows Me</em>, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice, and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things,&#8221; declares the LORD (emphasis mine).</p>
<p>This is about boasting (something we are not supposed to do?). While we are not to boast about things that are of themselves empty, we are commanded to boast about something. Something that our generation is increasing preaching as being among the unboastable areas of life: understanding. &#8220;Let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows me.&#8221;</p>
<p>I was in a small group venting about my expository preaching class ten years ago. I said, &#8220;They are trying to get me to pull out direct <em>immediate </em>application&#8212;something for the people to do&#8212;out of <em>every </em>sermon.&#8221; I complained about this. My group of young seminarians were divided. I told them that not only were some passages of Scripture not able to produce direct immediate application without sinful manipulation, but sometimes, I told them, &#8220;God simply wants us to believe what he said. This is application enough!&#8221;</p>
<p>We have downgraded belief, truth, doctrine, and &#8220;understanding&#8221; to a secondary level of importance. It has become the handmaiden of immediate application. We are losing our reason for boasting.</p>
<p>In reality, application is the handmaiden of truth. God wants us to know and <em>understand </em>him. Statements such as &#8220;Belief is no good without practice&#8221; fails to understand that belief is the foundation of practice and that belief&#8212;right belief&#8212;brings as much glory to God as anything.</p>
<p>Preaching right belief and understanding, unfortunately, has become the red taped taboo of our generation. Avoidance of such is justified in the name of baseless pragmatism. It is the Evangelical and Emerging misdirection that could alleviate the church of the only legitimate reason we have for boasting. I believe that it is the crisis of the church today.</p>
<p>Friends, if people believe correctly&#8212;and I mean <em>truly </em>believe&#8212;they will act correctly when the situation calls for it. Not only this, but their good works will be done for the right reasons, based on a motivation of truth. Knowing and understanding God will change lives by bringing people in a right orientation with the way things actually are.</p>
<p>I know that not everything can be understood. I know that God has not revealed himself to us fully. And I know that there is legitimate room for disagreement on many things. But this does not alleviate us of our search for God. Theology, truth, doctrine, understanding, and belief are foundational to all else. God rejoices in correct doctrine.</p>
<p>Lewis Sperry Chafer, the late founder of Dallas Theological Seminary, used to end each class with this statement, &#8220;Men, give them something to believe.&#8221; I end with the same.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/">See Part 2</a><strong>Similar Posts:</strong>
<ul class="similar-posts">
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-im-done/" rel="bookmark" title="March 13, 2009">“Belief is No Good Without Practice” . . . and Other Stupid Statements (Part I&#039;m Done)</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/" rel="bookmark" title="March 4, 2009">“Belief is No Good Without Practice” . . . and Other Stupid Statements (Part Deux)</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/03/seven-benefits-of-good-theology-1-knowing-what-to-believe/" rel="bookmark" title="March 28, 2007">Seven Benefits of Good Theology (1): Knowing what to believe</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/07/theology-beyond-the-bible/" rel="bookmark" title="July 15, 2009">Theology = Beyond the Bible?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/07/why-evangelicals-need-apostolic-succession/" rel="bookmark" title="July 23, 2009">Why Evangelicals Need Apostolic Succession</a></li>
</ul>
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		<title>Is Natural Revelation Also God’s Word?</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/09/is-natural-revelation-also-gods-word/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/09/is-natural-revelation-also-gods-word/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bibliology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christian Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Current Issues in Theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Out on a limb]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prolegomena]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is natural revelation God&#8217;s word?&#160;Or&#160;does Scripture only qualify for such a title? In other words, when nature speaks clearly about something can we say that this represents the voice of God to the same degree as Scripture? Natural revelation is God&#8217;s communication through creation. It is seen in the vast expanse of the universe and [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p align="left">Is natural revelation God&rsquo;s word?&nbsp;Or&nbsp;does Scripture only qualify for such a title? In other words, when nature speaks clearly about something can we say that this represents the voice of God to the same degree as Scripture?</p>
<p>Natural revelation is God&rsquo;s communication through creation. It is seen in the vast expanse of the universe and in the minute details of the human cell. It is found in the very consciousness of humanity and in our capacity for rational and analytic thought.&nbsp;Nature tells us much about the attributes and character of God. While, without the Scriptures we would lack an understanding of God&rsquo;s ultimate plan of redemption and Christian living, we would still have quite a bit of theological understanding.</p>
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><img style="WIDTH: 447px; HEIGHT: 344px" height="355" src="http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d/www.space.com/images/040608_iod_galaxy_04.jpg" width="479" alt="" /></p>
<p>Paul tells the Romans:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>&ldquo;For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.&rdquo; (<a class="bibleref" title="Romans 1" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Romans%201/">Romans 1</a>: 18-20)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Notice a few things:</p>
<p>1. &ldquo;<em>Revealed from heaven . . . being understood through what has been made.</em>&rdquo; This is what can be know about God <em>without the Scriptures</em>. It is God&rsquo;s revelation through creation.</p>
<p>2. <em>Against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men</em>. This tells us that natural revelation is evident to all. This is sometimes referred to as &ldquo;general revelation&rdquo; because it has a general audience that is not limited to a particular people, nation, or time.</p>
<p>3. <em>God has shown it to them</em>. This tells us it is from God. God is the author of this revelation.</p>
<p>4. <em>Invisible attributes . . . eternal power and divine nature</em>. This lets us know that we can understand many of the characteristics of God through natural revelation. His &ldquo;eternal power&rdquo; (<em>aidios autou dunamis</em>) has to do with not only ultimate power and ability, but the necessity of its eternality. His divine nature (<em>theiotes</em>) speaks of his divinity, or the nature that divinity necessary must encompass, including attributes and characteristics.</p>
<p>5. <em>They have been clearly seen</em>. The word for &ldquo;clearly&rdquo; (<em>kathoratai</em>) is in the present indicative telling us that this is an ongoing occurrence.&Acirc;&nbsp;The word&Acirc;&nbsp;carries the idea of <em>inward perception coming from our reasoning</em>, not simply seeing with the eye. BADG suggests this translation:&rdquo;God&#8217;s invisible attributes are perceived with the eye of reason in the things that have been made.&rdquo; In other words, natural revelation is <em>evidently </em>evident!</p>
<p>6. <em>They are without excuse</em>. This is very important to understand. The word here&Acirc;&nbsp;for &ldquo;without excuse&rdquo; (<em>anapologetous</em>) has a judicial feel to it. Josephus uses the word in the sense of being &ldquo;without a defense.&rdquo; <em>Dio Chrysostom</em> uses this to describe Alexander&rsquo;s aid to Homer saying that he will not let Homer go &ldquo;undefended.&rdquo; This verse is telling us that these characteristics of God are so clear that&Acirc;&nbsp;people are left&nbsp;without a defense of any sort&nbsp;for unbelief.</p>
<p>About natural revelation&rsquo;s voice, the Psalmist writes:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words, whose voice is not heard. Their measuring line goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. (<a class="bibleref" title="Psalm 19:1-4" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Psalm%2019.1-4/">Psalm 19:1-4</a>)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>In other words, both these passages teach that we are held accountable for hearing&nbsp;through creation the <em>authoritative</em> voice of God. So much so that we will be without excuse if we ignore what it has to say.</p>
<p>Now, we are evangelicals and biblicists, so we have to make Scripture more authoritative than creation, right? But the problem is How can God&rsquo;s word (Scripture) be more authoritative than God&rsquo;s word (creation)? If they are both God&rsquo;s word speaking with His voice, then they both have the same authority, right?</p>
<p>Some may say, &ldquo;Yes, but what about <em>Sola Scriptura</em>?&rdquo; Don&rsquo;t we believe that the Scriptures are the final and only infallible norm in matters of faith and practice? But this assumes that we have interpreted the Scripture correctly, which is, many times, a rather large assumption.&nbsp;However, creation is the same isn&rsquo;t it? If we interpret its voice correctly, doesn&rsquo;t it carry the same authority? This is the key question that I think we need to wrestle with.</p>
<p>Here are some implications:</p>
<p><strong>The acknowledgment of the validity of Natural theology</strong>. Natural theology&nbsp;(the theology&nbsp;derived from natural revelation) becomes a primary source of study&nbsp;in which&nbsp;Christians need to engage more often.&nbsp;While natural theology is not emphasized in many of the more fundementalistic Protestant circles,&nbsp;this has not always been the case. Great philosophers and theologians of the past have seen the importance letting God&rsquo;s voice come through creation. Aristotle&rsquo;s &ldquo;Unmoved Mover,&rdquo; Justin Martyrs &ldquo;God of the Philosophers,&rdquo; Anselm&rsquo;s &ldquo;Necessary Being,&rdquo; Aquinas&rsquo; &ldquo;Five Proofs,&rdquo; and John Calvin&rsquo;s &ldquo;<em>sensus divinitatis</em>&ldquo;&Acirc;&nbsp;all evidence an understanding of the authority of creation&rsquo;s voice. We need acknowledge and engage in the study of God&rsquo;s voice through creation with more confidence.</p>
<p><strong>Issues of faith and science become less dichotomized</strong>. Once we recognize that&nbsp;science is simply the interpretation of God&rsquo;s &ldquo;book of nature,&rdquo; it will&nbsp;no longer be seen as a threat. The scientist can give valuable information to the theologian in the same way&Acirc;&nbsp;the&Acirc;&nbsp;exegete does.&nbsp;Seeming conflict will no longer present the dilemma of having to choose&nbsp;which source is more <em>authoritative</em>, but which source speaks to the issue more <em>clearly</em>.&nbsp;Rhetoric between the&nbsp;ones who study human origins from God&rsquo;s word in Scripture and those who study&nbsp;God&rsquo;s word in creation will tamed. Both sides will see that we are ultimately on the same team, even if we may sometimes interpret each source of God&rsquo;s voice&nbsp;differently.</p>
<p><strong>Current issues about the nature of God will be put into perspective</strong>. Open theists who claim that the Bible never speaks about certain attributes of God held to by traditional theists such as asiety, immutability, and necessary eternality can recognize that <em>even if</em>&nbsp;Scripture&nbsp;did not speak of such things (which I do not concede), nature does have an <em>authoritative</em>&Acirc;&nbsp;voice to contribute.&nbsp;This means that philosophy and science do matter. This means that the old adage &ldquo;If it is not in the Bible, I don&rsquo;t believe it&rdquo; is not only irresponsible, <em>but unbiblical</em>! If nature says that God must be an Unmoved Mover, the Necessary Being, the Uncaused Cause, or the creator of time, then we must incorporate this into our theology, even if the Bible did not speak on it.</p>
<p>What I am <em>not</em> saying (just so I don&rsquo;t have to deal with misconceptions)</p>
<ul>
<li>I am not saying that natural revelation is sufficient for salvation. I don&rsquo;t believe it is. Natural revelation does not present the Gospel. </li>
<li>I am not saying that Scripture is not as important as we once thought. Without the Scriptures we would not know about God&rsquo;s plan of redemption. As well, Scripture speaks <em>much more</em> clearly in most areas of faith and practice. Its interpretation is not as difficult and, because of this,&nbsp;its message is more exhaustive and&nbsp;louder. </li>
<li>I am not saying that <em>Sola Scritura</em> is not correct. <em>Sola Scriptura</em> has to do with special revelation, God&rsquo;s mediating voice through human agencies, not natural revelation. Otherwise, what do we do with <a class="bibleref" title="Romans 1" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Romans%201/">Romans 1</a> and <a class="bibleref" title="Psalm 19" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Psalm%2019/">Psalm 19</a>? How would we say that God&rsquo;s word is more authoritative than God&rsquo;s word? Scripture is the final and only infallible authority in the sense that no human institution or authority can rise to its level. </li>
</ul>
<p>In the end, I propose that natural revelation is just as much God&rsquo;s word as Scripture (AHhhh!). Both have to be interpreted and both speak to different areas. Most importantly, both are authoritative and should be taken seriously. We will be without excuse if we close our ears to the voice of either.</p>
<p><strong>Similar Posts:</strong>
<ul class="similar-posts">
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/is-natural-revelation-gods-word/" rel="bookmark" title="September 7, 2007">Is Natural Revelation Also God&#8217;s Word?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/06/what-is-god-2-why-i-look-to-philosophy-and-say-you-should-too/" rel="bookmark" title="June 22, 2009">What is God (2) &#8211; Why I Look to Philosophy and Say You Should Too</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2010/01/why-i-believe-the-canon-of-scripture-is-theoretically-open-and-am-fine-with-it/" rel="bookmark" title="January 30, 2010">Why I Believe the Canon of Scripture is Theoretically Open . . . And Am Fine With It!</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/04/gods-hiddenness/" rel="bookmark" title="April 30, 2007">God&#8217;s Hiddenness</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2011/10/what-sola-scriptura-does-not-mean/" rel="bookmark" title="October 28, 2011">What Sola Scriptura Does NOT Mean</a></li>
</ul>
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		<title>Is Natural Revelation Also God&#8217;s Word?</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/is-natural-revelation-gods-word/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/is-natural-revelation-gods-word/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 20:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bibliology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christian Philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Current Issues in Theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Out on a limb]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prolegomena]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/09/07/is-natural-revelation-gods-word/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is natural revelation God&#8217;s word?Â OrÂ does Scripture only qualify for such a title?Â In other words, when nature speaks clearly about something can we say that this represents the voice of God to the same degree as Scripture? Natural revelation is God&#8217;s communication through creation. It is seen in the vast expanse of the universe and in [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p align="left">Is natural revelation God&#8217;s word?Â OrÂ does Scripture only qualify for such a title?Â In other words, when nature speaks clearly about something can we say that this represents the voice of God to the same degree as Scripture?</p>
<p>Natural revelation is God&#8217;s communication through creation. It is seen in the vast expanse of the universe and in the minute details of the human cell. It is found in the very consciousness of humanity and in our capacity for rational and analytic thought.Â Nature tells us much about the attributes and character of God. While, without the Scriptures we would lack an understanding of God&#8217;s ultimate plan of redemption and Christian living, we would still have quite a bit of theological understanding.</p>
<p style="text-align: center"><img width="479" src="http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d/www.space.com/images/040608_iod_galaxy_04.jpg" height="355" style="width: 479px; height: 355px" /></p>
<p>Â <span id="more-368"></span></p>
<p>Paul tells the Romans:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.&#8221; (<a class="bibleref" title="Romans 1" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Romans%201/">Romans 1</a>: 18-20)</p></blockquote>
<p>Notice a few things:</p>
<p>1. &#8220;<em>Revealed from heaven . . . being understood through what has been made.</em>&#8221; This is what can be know about God <em>without the Scriptures</em>. It is God&#8217;s revelation through creation.</p>
<p>2. <em>Against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men</em>. This tells us that natural revelation is evident to all. This is sometimes referred to as &#8220;general revelation&#8221; because it has a general audience that is not limited to a particular people, nation, or time.</p>
<p>3. <em>God has shown it to them</em>. This tells us it is from God. God is the author of this revelation.</p>
<p>4. <em>Invisible attributes . . . eternal power and divine nature</em>. This lets us know that we can understand many of the characteristics of God through natural revelation. His &#8220;eternal power&#8221; (<em>aidios autou dunamis</em>) has to do with not only ultimate power and ability, but the necessity of its eternality. His divine nature (<em>theiotes</em>) speaks of his divinity, or the nature that divinity necessary must encompass, including attributes and characteristics.</p>
<p>5. <em>They have been clearly seen</em>. The word for &#8220;clearly&#8221; (<em>kathoratai</em>) is in the present indicative telling us that this is an ongoing occurrence.Â The wordÂ carries the idea of <em>inward perception coming from our reasoning</em>, not simply seeing with the eye. BADG suggests this translation:Â &#8221;Godâ€™s invisible attributes are perceived with the eye of reason in the things that have been made.&#8221; In other words, natural revelation is <em>evidently </em>evident!</p>
<p>6. <em>They are without excuse</em>. This is very important to understand. The word hereÂ for &#8220;without excuse&#8221; (<em>anapologetous</em>) has a judicial feel to it. Josephus uses the word in the sense of being &#8220;without a defense.&#8221; <em>Dio Chrysostom</em> uses this to describe Alexander&#8217;s aid to Homer saying that he will not let Homer go &#8220;undefended.&#8221; This verse is telling us that these characteristics of God are so clear thatÂ people are leftÂ without a defense of any sortÂ for unbelief.</p>
<p>About natural revelation&#8217;s voice, the Psalmist writes:</p>
<blockquote><p>The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words, whose voice is not heard. Their measuring line goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. (<a class="bibleref" title="Psalm 19:1-4" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Psalm%2019.1-4/">Psalm 19:1-4</a>)</p></blockquote>
<p>In other words, both these passages teach that we are held accountable for hearingÂ through creation the <em>authoritative</em> voice of God. So much so that we will be without excuse if we ignore what it has to say.</p>
<p>Now, we are evangelicals and biblicists, so we have to make Scripture more authoritative than creation, right? But the problem is How can God&#8217;s word (Scripture) be more authoritative than God&#8217;s word (creation)? If they are both God&#8217;s word speaking with His voice, then they both have the same authority, right?</p>
<p>Some may say, &#8220;Yes, but what about <em>Sola Scriptura</em>?&#8221; Don&#8217;t we believe that the Scriptures are the final and only infallible norm in matters of faith and practice? But this assumes that we have interpreted the Scripture correctly, which is, many times, a rather large assumption.Â However, creation is the same isn&#8217;t it? If we interpret its voice correctly, doesn&#8217;t it carry the same authority? This is the key question that I think we need to wrestle with.</p>
<p>Here are some implications:</p>
<p><strong>The acknowledgment of the validity of Natural theology</strong>. Natural theologyÂ (the theologyÂ derived from natural revelation) becomes a primary source of studyÂ in whichÂ Christians need to engage more often.Â While natural theology is not emphasized in many of the more fundementalistic Protestant circles,Â this has not always been the case. Great philosophers and theologians of the past have seen the importance letting God&#8217;s voice come through creation. Aristotle&#8217;s &#8220;Unmoved Mover,&#8221; Justin Martyrs &#8220;God of the Philosophers,&#8221; Anselm&#8217;s &#8220;Necessary Being,&#8221; Aquinas&#8217; &#8220;Five Proofs,&#8221; and John Calvin&#8217;s &#8220;<em>sensus divinitatis</em>&#8220;Â all evidence an understanding of the authority of creation&#8217;s voice. We need acknowledge and engage in the study of God&#8217;s voice through creation with more confidence.</p>
<p><strong>Issues of faith and science become less dichotomized</strong>. Once we recognize thatÂ science is simply the interpretation of God&#8217;s &#8220;book of nature,&#8221; it willÂ no longer be seen as a threat. The scientist can give valuable information to the theologian in the same wayÂ theÂ exegete does.Â Seeming conflict will no longer present the dilemma of having to chooseÂ which source is more <em>authoritative</em>, but which source speaks to the issue more <em>clearly</em>.Â Rhetoric between theÂ ones who study human origins from God&#8217;s word in Scripture and those who studyÂ God&#8217;s word in creation will tamed. Both sides will see that we are ultimately on the same team, even if we may sometimes interpret each source of God&#8217;s voiceÂ differently.</p>
<p><strong>Current issues about the nature of God will be put into perspective</strong>. Open theists who claim that the Bible never speaks about certain attributes of God held to by traditional theists such as asiety, immutability, and necessary eternality can recognize that <em>even if</em>Â ScriptureÂ did not speak of such things (which I do not concede), nature does have an <em>authoritative</em>Â voice to contribute.Â This means that philosophy and science do matter. This means that the old adage &#8220;If it is not in the Bible, I don&#8217;t believe it&#8221; is not only irresponsible, <em>but unbiblical</em>! If nature says that God must be an Unmoved Mover, the Necessary Being, the Uncaused Cause, or the creator of time, then we must incorporate this into our theology, even if the Bible did not speak on it.</p>
<p>What I am <em>not</em> saying (just so I don&#8217;t have to deal with misconceptions)</p>
<ul>
<li>I am not saying that natural revelation is sufficient for salvation. I don&#8217;t believe it is. Natural revelation does not present the Gospel.</li>
<li>I am not saying that Scripture is not as important as we once thought. Without the Scriptures we would not know about God&#8217;s plan of redemption. As well, Scripture speaks <em>much more</em> clearly in most areas of faith and practice. Its interpretation is not as difficult and, because of this,Â its message is more exhaustive andÂ louder.</li>
<li>I am not saying that <em>Sola Scritura</em> is not correct. <em>Sola Scriptura</em> has to do with special revelation, God&#8217;s mediating voice through human agencies, not natural revelation. Otherwise, what do we do with <a class="bibleref" title="Romans 1" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Romans%201/">Romans 1</a> and <a class="bibleref" title="Psalm 19" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Psalm%2019/">Psalm 19</a>? How would we say that God&#8217;s word is more authoritative than God&#8217;s word? Scripture is the final and only infallible authority in the sense that no human institution or authority can rise to its level.</li>
</ul>
<p>In the end, I propose that natural revelation is just as much God&#8217;s word as Scripture (AHhhh!). Both have to be interpreted and both speak to different areas. Most importantly, both are authoritative and should be taken seriously. We will be without excuse if we close our ears to the voice of either.<strong>Similar Posts:</strong>
<ul class="similar-posts">
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/09/is-natural-revelation-also-gods-word/" rel="bookmark" title="September 7, 2008">Is Natural Revelation Also God’s Word?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/06/what-is-god-2-why-i-look-to-philosophy-and-say-you-should-too/" rel="bookmark" title="June 22, 2009">What is God (2) &#8211; Why I Look to Philosophy and Say You Should Too</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/04/gods-hiddenness/" rel="bookmark" title="April 30, 2007">God&#8217;s Hiddenness</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2010/01/why-i-believe-the-canon-of-scripture-is-theoretically-open-and-am-fine-with-it/" rel="bookmark" title="January 30, 2010">Why I Believe the Canon of Scripture is Theoretically Open . . . And Am Fine With It!</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2011/10/what-sola-scriptura-does-not-mean/" rel="bookmark" title="October 28, 2011">What Sola Scriptura Does NOT Mean</a></li>
</ul>
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		<title>The Danger of Inerrancy</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/07/the-danger-of-inerrancy-2/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/07/the-danger-of-inerrancy-2/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bibliology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Inerrancy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Out on a limb]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/07/14/the-danger-of-inerrancy-2/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Considering the Inerrancy series thatÂ we areÂ broadcasting here on the blogÂ from TUP, I thought that I would follow it up with this post. Greg Jones was an evangelical Christian, active in his church, a regular preacher, teacher and served on the elder board. He says that he was â€œaddictedâ€ to fundamentalism. He slept, ate, and drank [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering the Inerrancy series thatÂ we areÂ broadcasting here on the blogÂ from TUP, I thought that I would follow it up with this post.</p>
<p>Greg Jones was an evangelical Christian, active in his church, a regular preacher, teacher and served on the elder board. He says that he was â€œaddictedâ€ to fundamentalism. He slept, ate, and drank the truths of Christianity. After a decade of faithful service to the church, he is now a professing atheist who rejects the â€œnaivetyâ€ of all that he held to so dearly. Why? Well, as he tells the story, he says that he was awakened out of his slumber of fundamentalism through many encounters with â€œthe truth.â€ Chief among these encounters was when he finally realized that the Bible was â€œfull of errors.â€<span id="more-284"></span>Â He describes his turn by referencing the discrepancies that he found throughout Scripture and being unable to come to a way to reconcile them. â€œFor some timeâ€ he describes, â€œI was the best at answering the skeptic with regards to any objection that he could levy against the Scripture. I knew how to reconcile any supposed contradiction. It became like an art form that I was proud of. No matter how difficult the problem, I could find a way out. After a time, I donâ€™t know why, but I began to reflect upon the lengths that I had to go to make it all fit together. I realized that the â€œartâ€ of answering the contradictions became a subjective smokescreen that I raised not only to those I was responding to, but also myself. I had to be honest with myself. John says â€˜No one who is born of God sins,â€™ then turns around and says â€˜If anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father.â€™ Which one is it? There are literally hundreds of problems like this in Scripture. My answers may have satisfied those I taught, but they no longer satisfied me. Eventually I realized (sadly, I might say) that I had to let go of the inerrancy of Scripture. Once I did that, I had to let go of Christ.â€ (This was adapted from a true story).</p>
<p>This description is a common testimony of many who have â€œwalked away from the faith.â€ But this blog is not about â€œwalking away from the faithâ€ <em>per se</em>, but with the dangers of the doctrine of inerrancy. When Greg rejected the doctrine of inerrancy because of his inability to reconcile the discrepancies, did this necessarily mean that he <em>had</em> to walk away from the faith? Is the doctrine of inerrancy so central to the Christian faith that if one were to deny it, he or she should pack their bags and search for a new worldview? In other words (and let me be very clear), if the Scriptures are not inerrant, does that mean the Christian faith is false?</p>
<p>Most of you know that I hold to the doctrine of inerrancy. Not only this, but I believe in the <a href="http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html"><font color="#667700">Chicago Statement of Biblical Inerrancy</font></a> (a very conservative document). Each year, I sign the required membership form for the <a href="http://www.etsjets.org/"><font color="#667700">Evangelical Theological Society</font></a>, reaffirming my belief that the Scriptures, in the autographa, are without any errors whatsoever- historical, scientific, or theological.</p>
<p>Having said this, I believe that this doctrine, while important, is not the article upon which Christianity stands or falls. I believe that the Scriptures could contain error and the Christian faith remain essentially in tact. Why? Because Christianity is not built upon the inerrancy of Scripture, but the historical Advent of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Christ because man, lived a perfect life, died an atoning death, and rose on the third day not because the Scriptures inerrantly say that these events occurred, but because they did in fact occur. The truth is in the objectivity of the event, not the accuracy of the record of the event. The cause and effect must be put into proper place here. The historical event of the incarnation caused the recording of Scripture, Scripture was not the cause of the events. Again, Christianity is founded upon the Advent, not the inerrant record of the Advent.</p>
<p>Think about this: Do we only trust the historical records of those accounts that have an inerrant witness? Are the ancient histories inerrant? I have never heard anyone say that Polybius (c.200-after 118 BCE) was inerrant in his records of Roman history, yet we treat him as generally reliable. As well, Josephus (37- after 93 CE) is seen as a generally reliable Jewish historian, but not inerrant. Those who write history books for our schools today do not have to submit a resume with credentials of inerrancy before they are approved by the publishers to write upper-level history textbooks do they? No. Why? Because it is a well accepted understanding that people can give a reliable and truthful witness, even if they are not inerrant. What if we followed the example set by Greg in the above story. Once we find a discrepancy of any kind in any work, this renders the entire work untrustworthy. If this were our method of historical inquiry, we would be completely agnostic to all of history. We would end up saying that all works written by historians of past are complete lies and fabrications, because they are not inerrant.</p>
<p>Thankfully, this is not the dilemma that is presented to us in understanding history (or any other discipline). We understand that people, while errant, can give us generally trustworthy accounts. Those who hold positions as universities professors, scientists, engineers, historians, mathematicians, politicians, and just about every other career must rely upon the general trustworthiness of the witness of other errant individuals.</p>
<p>Letâ€™s take this same approach with the Scriptures for a moment. Letâ€™s assume that the Scriptures are not inerrant. (Please, at least attempt to go there with me!) Letâ€™s take it a step further and say that the Scriptures are not inspired at all. Here then is the situation: the Scriptures are a collection of 66 ancient historical records, given through various types of literature. The records, like any other record, may have errors-historical, scientific, or otherwise. Now that we are rollinâ€™ letâ€™s say that John did indeed make a mistake about the number of women who came to the tomb of Jesus after His resurrection. Does this make the testimony of John <em>completely</em> false? Does this mean that the entire testimony of John is now wrong at every turn? Of course not! Any historian who followed this methodology would quickly find himself out of a job, for he would have no sources for his research. If the Scriptures were like any other records of history with minor discrepancies, then this would not justify a total rejection of the events they record. Their credibility is based upon the assumption of general historic reliability as evidenced through the rules of historic inquiry-which does not include a criteria for inerrancy.</p>
<p>Let me take this one <em>more</em> step further. The fact is that we donâ€™t even need the Scriptures in order for Christianity to be true. Remember, the Christian worldview is Christocentric (centered around the Advent of Christ), not bibliocentric (centered around the Bible). It is because of Godâ€™s grace that we even have the record of Christâ€™s death, burial, and resurrection. But if for some reason God had decided to withhold His grace and not record these events in Scripture, does this mean that the events did not take place? Of course not. Christ death, burial, and resurrection are historical events that happened whether or not we have inspired records.</p>
<p>You may say to me, how would we know about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ had it not been recorded? This is a good question, but you must first take this next step of concession. Not only is it true that Christianity is not dependent upon inerrancy, inspiration, and recording of the events, but it is also not reliant upon our knowledge of the events. Theoretically speaking, God could have sent His Son to die for the world and raise from the grave and not told anyone at all and Christianity would still be true. The point is that Christianity stands or falls upon the historical truth of the Advent of the Son of God, not the record of these events through Scripture. How God decides to communicates these events, should He choose to do so, is not the issue. I suppose He could have used unwritten tradition, the testimony of angels, dreams and visions, or direct encounters.</p>
<p>Now, apologetically speaking, there is no reason whatsoever for one to reject the general historical reliability of the Scriptures if presented as such. If one were to accept the Gospels, for instance, like any other historical writing, then they would have to be persuaded of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth based upon honest and solid historical inquiry. If they did not, then their methodology is flawed by other unjustifiable presuppositions such as the impossibility of miracles.</p>
<p>Why did Greg feel compelled to reject the entirety of Christianity because of a few supposed errors? Because that is what he was taught by conservative, well meaning Christians. I believe that we often times, in our zeal for the Scriptures, create a false dilemma suggesting that belief in inerrancy and total rejection of the Christian message are the only two options. These are not the only two options. The Scriptures can be generally reliable historical accounts and the Christian faith still be true.</p>
<p>To those of you who are struggling with or reject the doctrine of inerrancy, while I believe you are wrong, this does not mean that you have grounds to reject the historicity of the death, burial, and resurrection of the Son of God as recorded in Scripture. There are 27 ancient documents that have historical credibility that must be referenced just like any other ancient document (not to mention the witness of dozens of first and second century historical documents that are not included in this New Testament canon). If you reject Christianity based upon your belief of the errancy of these documents, you must also reject all the records of ancient history.</p>
<p>To those of you who believe in the inspiration and inerrancy, your belief is on solid ground (see <a href="http://www.ttpstudents.com/content/ttp/courses/BH/00"><font color="#667700">here</font></a> for videos defending inspiration and inerrancy). But please be careful to not to create a false dilemma concerning a strict adherence to the Evangelical persuasion. While the authority of Godâ€™s word is of central importance, Christianity is Christocentric, not bibliocentric. Christ is still Lord, even if the Scriptures were never written.</p>
<p>What is the danger of inerrancy? Making it the doctrine upon which the Christian faith stands or falls.<strong>Similar Posts:</strong>
<ul class="similar-posts">
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/04/the-danger-of-inerrancy/" rel="bookmark" title="April 12, 2007">The Danger of Inerrancy</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/12/if-the-bible-is-not-inerrant-then-christianity-is-false-and-other-stupid-statements/" rel="bookmark" title="December 29, 2009">&quot;If the Bible is Not Inerrant, then Christianity is False&quot; . . . And Other Stupid Statements</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2011/12/is-inerrancy-the-linchpen-of-evangelicalism/" rel="bookmark" title="December 15, 2011">Is Inerrancy the Linchpin of Evangelicalism?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/07/a-possible-error-in-the-bible/" rel="bookmark" title="July 6, 2009">A Possible Error in the Bible?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2010/01/case-studies-in-inerrancy-a-new-pp-series/" rel="bookmark" title="January 26, 2010">Case Studies in Inerrancy: A New P&#038;P Series</a></li>
</ul>
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		<title>Would Christ have died had he not been killed? (2)</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/06/would-christ-have-died-had-he-not-been-killed-2/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/06/would-christ-have-died-had-he-not-been-killed-2/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 04:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eschatology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Out on a limb]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sin]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Evil]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/06/27/would-christ-have-died-had-he-not-been-killed-2/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In a previous post I put this question forward: Would Christ have died had he not been killed? The question is brought about by our pondering upon Christ&#8217;s identification with humanity and humanity&#8217;s identification with sin and death. Since Christ did not sin, and death is a result of sin, then wouldn&#8217;t it be systematic [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a <a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/06/23/would-christ-have-died-had-he-not-been-killed/">previous post</a> I put this question forward: Would Christ have died had he not been killed? The question is brought about by our pondering upon Christ&#8217;s identification with humanity and humanity&#8217;s identification with sin and death. Since Christ did not sin, and death is a result of sin, then wouldn&#8217;t it be systematic to believe that Christ would have lived foreverÂ in his unresurrected body had He not been 1) killed or 2) relinquished His spirit from His body?<span id="more-259"></span></p>
<p>I believe the answer is slightly more complicated than it might first appear having implications that reveal our assumptions about our Christology (doctrine of Christ), Anthropology (doctrine of man), Harmartiology (doctrine of sin), Eschatology (doctrine of the end-times), and Teleology (doctrine of ultimate ends or purpose). Now that is quite a claim that needs to be defended. Let me state this another way so that there are not any misunderstandings. Your answer to this question, yah or nah, is not the issue and is of minimal importance, but the assumptions that often cause one to say yah or nah are very important, ultimately being a result of your entire systematic theology.</p>
<p>I believe that Christ would have died a natural death had He not been killed. In fact, I believe that Christ got sick, ate, drank, had headaches, used the bathroom, was sunburned from time to time, had blisters on his feet when He walked too far, cried when hurt as a child, and sprained His ankle. In fact, He might have even needed to wear corrective lenses were His life lived in the 21st century (well, He probably could have had some sympathetic supporter pay for lasik!). The point is that Christ was very human, like us in every respect save sin.</p>
<p>&#8220;Save sin.&#8221; What does that mean? Save personal sin? &#8211; absolutely. Christ did not commit a personal sin (<a class="bibleref" title="Heb. 4:15" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Heb.%204.15/">Heb. 4:15</a>). Save inherited sin? &#8211; hmm, what does that mean? Normally inherited sin is equated with &#8220;sinful nature.&#8221;Â Hang with me for a moment. The sinful natureÂ has traditionally been defined as the sinful tendency or bent that you and IÂ have inherited from our parents; they inherited it from their parents who inherited it through their parents, and so on. In other words, it is mediated through procreation. It is the inward inclination and driveÂ to rebel. It is what caused David to cry out, &#8220;Look, I was guilty of sin from birth, <em>a sinner the moment my mother conceived me</em>&#8221; (<a class="bibleref" title="Ps. 51:5" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Ps.%2051.5/">Ps. 51:5</a>, NET, emphasis mine). If thisÂ is the way we are going to define inherited sin/sinful nature, I agree, Christ did not have this corruption. I don&#8217;t believe that Christ had an inward drive or inclination toward sin. Although I could be wrong, I believe that with reference to Christ, all temptation for sin came from the outside.Â </p>
<p>Now, here is a second issue having to do with our understanding of fallen humanity and its relation to Christ. Traditionally the phrase &#8220;fallen nature&#8221; has been equated with &#8220;sinful nature&#8221; which is equated with inherited sin. It looks like this:</p>
<p align="center">fallen nature=sinful nature=inherited sin</p>
<p>I am not sure, however, that this is a good equation. At the very least, I think we can understand more if we distinguish between fallen nature and sinful nature. Here is my proposal (I am not sure if this is original with me, but I don&#8217;t know any others who have articulated the issues in such a way &#8211; in other words, be warned!):</p>
<p><strong>Sinful nature</strong>: The effects of sin that bring about spiritual corruptionÂ and death (separation from God)Â producing in us an inward inclination toward sin that is mediated through our parents. This effects only humans who are in spiritual relation to the first Adam.<br />
<strong>Fallen nature</strong>: The effects of sin that bring about physical corruption and ultimate physical death that are mediated through the consequence of the fall. This affects all of creation.</p>
<p>Put the situation this way. After Adam&#8217;s sin, what would have happened had God not expelled him from the Garden? He would have had a sinful nature due to his sin and resulting spiritual death (separation from God). In other words, spiritual death would have been a reality, but not necessarily physical death. It was only when he was expelled from the Garden that physical death became anÂ imminent reality. Notice after the fall what the Lord said:</p>
<blockquote><p>Then the LORD God said, &#8220;Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, <em>and eat, and live forever</em>&#8220;- 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life. (<a class="bibleref" title="Genesis 3:22-24" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Genesis%203.22-24/">Genesis 3:22-24</a> 22; emphasis mine)</p></blockquote>
<p>This tells us that it was not the sin itself or the resulting spiritual death that necessitated physical death, but the fact that Adam and Eve no longer had access to the &#8220;Tree of Life.&#8221; Whether you believe as I do thatÂ the &#8220;Tree of Life&#8221; is a literal tree or not, the resulting theology seems to be the same. <em>Physical death came as a result of a sanctioned consequence for sin having to do with humanities lack of access to the &#8220;Tree of Life.&#8221;</em> Therefore, while death does come as a consequence of sin, the consequence seems to be that humanity lacks something in creation that is essential to the sustenance of physical life. Since we don&#8217;t have access to this &#8220;Tree of Life&#8221; we die physically. It is that simple.</p>
<p>Therefore, Christ, even though He did not commit any sin and did not have a sinful nature, did have a fallen nature. Christ would have died because He did not have access to the &#8220;Tree of Life.&#8221; Now, we can discuss whether or not Christ <em>could have,</em> by right,<em> </em>had access to the Tree had He not been killed, but this is a different discussion. The fact is that Christ came on a mission to die. He had to be susceptible to physical death in order to be killed. This He did so that He could gain the right to represent us before the Father.</p>
<p>Concerning the &#8220;Tree of Life,&#8221; it would seem that the implications of what I have argued are far more systematic and far-reaching when one considers God&#8217;s ultimate purpose for humanity (teleology) and our future (eschatology). If God is indeed in the process of restoring all things as Peter so boldly proclaimed (&#8220;[Christ] Whom heaven must receive until the period of <em>restoration of all things</em> about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time&#8221; &#8211; <a class="bibleref" title="Acts 2:21" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Acts%202.21/">Acts 2:21</a>; emphasis mine), then our final state is that of reliance upon the sustenance given to us by the &#8220;Tree of Life&#8221; once again. In other words, on the new earth, we will indeed live forever, not because we have some new kind of body that has an inherent inability to suffer death, but because believers will be &#8220;eating&#8221; from the &#8220;Tree of Life&#8221; as was originally intended. Notice in Revelation the Tree is once again introduced:</p>
<blockquote><p>In the middle of its street, on either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (<a class="bibleref" title="Revelation 22:2" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Revelation%2022.2/">Revelation 22:2</a> )</p></blockquote>
<p>What is the &#8220;healing of the nations?&#8221; It seems to be in reference to humanity in general. You and I will need healing, the sustenance, that the tree provides in order to avoid physical death. Since we will be in perfect obedience to God, we will never lack access to this &#8220;Tree&#8221; and, therefore, we will never experience physical death again.</p>
<p>Notice again in the book of Revelation:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.&#8221; (<a class="bibleref" title="Revelation 22:14-15" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Revelation%2022.14-15/">Revelation 22:14-15</a> 14)</p></blockquote>
<p>Now, before you jump on this moving train with me, let me reveal a small problem with my otherwise flawless systemization of this issue! If all I have said is correct, and the &#8220;Tree of Life&#8221; provides us with the necessary sustenance for physical life, how is it that people who are damned live for eternity without access to the tree? This, I don&#8217;t have an answer for. Could it be that the damned are judged in their physical bodies (<a class="bibleref" title="Rev. 20:5, 12-13" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Rev.%2020.5%2C%2012-13/">Rev. 20:5, 12-13</a>) and then are separated from them upon their condemnation? Could it be that Hell, then, is not filled with physical people, but only the immaterial part of their constitution? Or could it be that even in Hell, God gives people this needed sustenance so that they can suffer physically for all eternity? I don&#8217;t know. But I don&#8217;t think that this problem is significant enough to warrant the ill-consideration of my proposal to these issues.</p>
<p>Anyway, I have gone long enough. Thoughts?<strong>Similar Posts:</strong>
<ul class="similar-posts">
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/04/did-christ-have-gray-hair/" rel="bookmark" title="April 14, 2009">Did Christ Have Gray Hair?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/06/would-christ-have-died-had-he-not-been-killed/" rel="bookmark" title="June 23, 2007">Would Christ have died had He not been killed?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/08/are-we-condemned-for-the-sin-of-another-part-4-the-resolution/" rel="bookmark" title="August 27, 2007">Are We Condemned for the Sin of Another (Part 4: The Resolution)</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/08/are-we-condemned-for-the-sin-of-another-part-2/" rel="bookmark" title="August 22, 2007">Are we Condemned for the Sin of Another? (Part 2)</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2011/04/the-discipleship-book-man-2/" rel="bookmark" title="April 3, 2011">The Discipleship Book: Man</a></li>
</ul>
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		<title>Taking the Lord&#8217;s Name in Vain: What Does it Really Mean?</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/06/what-does-it-really-mean-to-take-the-lords-name-in-vein/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/06/what-does-it-really-mean-to-take-the-lords-name-in-vein/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 05:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Folk Theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Out on a limb]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Questions and Answers]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/06/07/what-does-it-really-mean-to-take-the-lords-name-in-vein/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What does it mean to use the Lord&#8217;s name in vain? This is a question that might seem self-evident to most people in western society. Whether you are religious or not, you would not even hesitate withÂ your answer, &#8220;It means to say G-D.&#8221; I am sure that there are more people that can answer this [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p align="left"><img align="right" width="220" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/images/Parchment%20and%20Pen/cursing_curse_bubble.gif" height="165" style="width: 220px; height: 165px" /><br />
What does it mean to use the Lord&#8217;s name in vain? This is a question that might seem self-evident to most people in western society. Whether you are religious or not, you would not even hesitate withÂ your answer, &#8220;It means to say G-D.&#8221; I am sure that there are more people that can answer this than there are who canÂ list the ten commandments, name the Gospels, or tell you the difference between the New Testament and the Old Testament. With all the talk about <a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/06/02/now-my-pastor-needs-soap-in-his-mouth-the-cursing-christian-2/">cursing pastors</a> and the evolution of swearing going on in the blogsphere, I thought that I would try to contribute once more to this discussion by asking the question &#8220;What does it <em>really</em> mean to take the Lord&#8217;s name in vain?&#8221;</p>
<p><span id="more-219"></span>Obviously, I am going to say something that is at odds with the common conception among those of us who grew up in the context of our western Judeo-Christian culture, otherwise I would not have included the word &#8220;really,&#8221; and put it in italics! The reader must also be warned that I am going to use a phrase that is <em>very</em> offensive to many. I am assuming that I am dealing with a mature audience who understands the intentionality that I bring to this blog (most of the time!). If what I am proposing here is correct, we all need to hear this in order to overcome a serious issue of folk theology that damages the character of God and misrepresents what it means to talk in a Christian manner.</p>
<p>For most, the ultimate violation of theÂ third commandment, &#8220;You shall not take the Lord your God&#8217;s name in vain,&#8221; is to say &#8220;God damn it.&#8221;Â You can use just about every other word or phrase, no matter how bad, but when your vulgarity includes the utilization of this phrase, many would believe that you have crossed the line. You might even be charged with blasphemy. Some people will stand before God and when asked &#8220;Why should I let you in to heaven?&#8221; will proudlyÂ say, &#8220;Because I did not murder, commit adultery, and I never said &#8220;the G-D word.&#8221; (Please note, I don&#8217;t think God is going to ask that question.)</p>
<p>I believe we have this wrong. In fact, from a purely objective standpoint, I don&#8217;t believe that this phrase causes God to bat an eye whatsoever.Â Think about it this way for a moment. Why would calling on God to damn something be so bad? What does the verb &#8220;damn&#8221; mean? The <em>American Heritage Dictionary</em> defines theÂ verbÂ &#8221;to damn&#8221;Â as &#8220;the act ofÂ pronouncing an adverse judgement upon.&#8221; To call upon God to damn something is neither sinful nor unbiblical. In fact, you can find people throughout Scripture, especially in the Psalms, who call upon God to bring judgement on their enemies. In other words, they are asking for God to damn those who they feel are ripe for His judgement. In this sense, saying &#8220;God damn _____&#8221; is as biblical as saying &#8220;God bless _____.&#8221;</p>
<p>Some may say to me the reason why this is a violation of the third commandment is because people are using God&#8217;s name in a &#8220;vain,&#8221; &#8220;worthless,&#8221; or &#8220;empty&#8221; way. In this case, to say &#8220;God damn it!&#8221; in our colloquial tongue is not the same as seriously calling upon God to damn something or someone. For these people, if you say it seriously, fine, but if you say it casually, then you have used His name in an empty way and thereby broken the third commandment.</p>
<p>But there are three major problems with this line of reasoning:Â </p>
<p>1) &#8220;God&#8221; is not the name of God, but a common phrase used to refer to deities in general. How can a genericÂ classification be considered a formal name? It would be like you saying that my name is &#8220;person.&#8221; God gives His name to Moses in the book of Exodus. His name is Yahweh. Would you have the same offense if someone were to stub their toe and say &#8220;Yahweh damn it!&#8221;? I doubt it.</p>
<p>2) If the principle that we are going by is that we are not to use God&#8217;s name <em>and not really mean it</em>, then I believe that we are very inconsistent in what we take offense to as a culture. Why don&#8217;t people get offended when others say &#8220;God bless you?&#8221; Do you think that every time someone says this that they really mean it? Do you think that in their mind they are talking to God, beseeching on your behalf for a blessing? Just about every email I get ends with the phrase, &#8220;God bless.&#8221; I seriously doubt that that person actually said a prayer for me before he or she hit send. If this is the case, then why isÂ sayingÂ &#8221;God bless you&#8221;Â not just as much a violation of the third commandment as saying &#8220;God damn you?&#8221; Is it more biblical to ask for God&#8217;s kindness or judgment? I don&#8217;t think anyone who is honest with themselves can say that they are consistent in this regard. Saying &#8220;God damn it&#8221; and not meaning it should be just as bad as saying &#8220;God bless you&#8221; and not meaning it.</p>
<p>3) This is the most important so I have saved it for last. In fact, if what I am about to say is true, then the first two don&#8217;t really make a difference. The question is this: What does it mean to use God&#8217;s name in an empty or vain way? What does the third commandment <em>really</em> mean? It is hard to tell from a simple word study on the Hebrew term <em>naqa</em> (vain). As well, our understanding of a &#8220;name&#8221; and what it signifies is much different than what it meant in the context in which this commandment was given. What we have to do is to try to understand what it meant then, so that we can understand what it means now. It does us no good to anachronistically impose our understanding upon an ancient text. This is eisegesis (reading into the text what we presuppose), not exegesis (letting the text speak on its own terms).</p>
<p>Briefly, here is what I believe your studies will show. The nations to which the Israelites were going had many gods. They were highly superstitious. Their prophets would often use the name of their god in pronouncements. The usage could be in a curse, hex, or even a blessing. They would use the name of their god to give their statements, whatever they may be, authority. To pronounce something in their own name would not have given their words much weight, but to pronounce something in the name of a god meant that people would listen and fear. They may have said, &#8220;In the name of Baal, there will be no rain for 40 days.&#8221; Or &#8220;In the name of Marduk, I say that you will win this battle.&#8221; This gave the prophet much power and authority. But, as we know, there is no Baal or Marduk. Since this is the case, they did not really make such pronouncement and therefore the words of the prophet had no authority and should neither have been praised or feared.</p>
<p>God was attempting to prevent the Israelites from doing the same thing. God was saying for them not to use His name like the nations used the names of their gods. He did not want them to use His name to invoke false authority behind pronouncements. In essence, God did not want the Israelites to say that He said something that He had not said. This makes sense. God has a reputation to protect. He does not want anyone saying &#8220;Thus sayeth the Lord&#8221; if the Lord had not spoken. All of you have experienced this. You have had peopleÂ say you said something you did not say. This can be very damaging to your character. It is very destructive to your name. Why? Because it makes you out to be something that you are not. How much more important is it for God to protect His character? It is fitting that God would have put this as one of the ten most important commandments as the nation of Israel moved towards Canaan.</p>
<p>What does this mean for us? Well, for starters we understand thatÂ the third commandment isÂ certainly not focused on something so trivial as saying &#8220;God damn it!&#8221; The funny thing is that while some people may neverÂ think of usingÂ that phrase, people all over the Christian religious landscape are breaking the third commandment every day, damaging the Lord&#8217;s reputation. &#8220;Thus sayeth the Lord . . .&#8221; &#8220;God told me to tell you . . .&#8221; &#8220;God says that if you send in this much money, you will be blessed.&#8221; I could go on and on, but you get the point. Using the name of the Lord in vain means that you do damage to His reputation and character through false and unsure claims. Think again before you say &#8220;God said . . .&#8221; Make sure that He has really said it. If you are unsure, make your statement reflect your uncertianty. Saying &#8220;I think God is telling you to . . .&#8221; rather than &#8220;God is telling you to . . .&#8221; may not be as authoritative, but it will keep God&#8217;s reputation safe and keep you from breaking the third commandment.</p>
<p>As an aside, I think that this misunderstanding of the third commandment is not only sad, but tragic. If I were Satan (and I am not <img src='http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  ), I can&#8217;t think of a better way to trivialize such an important commandment and misrepresent the character of GodÂ than to make peopleÂ focusÂ its essence on the phraseÂ &#8221;God damn it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Does this mean that I believe that we can now say this phraseÂ and not worry about it? Not exactly. I think that using this phrase in a colloquial way is offensive in many (if not most) contexts. We don&#8217;t want to be offensive. It all comes back to being intentional with <em>everything</em> we say. While it is not a violation of the third commandment necessarily, it is offensive speech that must be used with wisdom and discretion.<strong>Similar Posts:</strong>
<ul class="similar-posts">
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2010/09/what-does-it-really-mean-to-take-the-lords-name-in-vain/" rel="bookmark" title="September 7, 2010">What Does it <i>Really</i> Mean to Take the Lord&#8217;s Name in Vain?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2010/09/inviting-jesus-into-your-heart/" rel="bookmark" title="September 23, 2010">Inviting Jesus into your Heart (Dan Wallace)</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/06/would-christ-have-died-had-he-not-been-killed-2/" rel="bookmark" title="June 27, 2007">Would Christ have died had he not been killed? (2)</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/" rel="bookmark" title="February 12, 2007">Was God&#8217;s purpose in creation to glorify Himself?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/08/a-near-death-experience-a-theological-evaluation-of-don-pipers-90-minutes-in-heaven/" rel="bookmark" title="August 6, 2007">A Near Death Experience? A Theological Evaluation of Don Piper&#8217;s &#8220;90 Minutes in Heaven&#8221;</a></li>
</ul>
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		<title>Can a Christian Support Abortion? The Theology of Abortion</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/can-a-christian-support-abortion-the-theology-of-abortion/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/can-a-christian-support-abortion-the-theology-of-abortion/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 08:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Anthropology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christian Life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Out on a limb]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Evil]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[The Theology Program]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.86.177.226/~ttpstude/blog/2007/05/24/can-a-christian-support-abortion-the-theology-of-abortion/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Recent polls indicate that the majority of Americans are pro-choice with regards to abortion. This is interesting considering that similar polls tell us that the majority of Americans identify themselves as Christians. This begs the question, Can a Christian support abortion? Without getting into any of the medical details of or even physiological reasons for [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.christianpost.com/article/20070523/27569_Poll%3A__Most_Pro-Choice_Americans_Still_%27Conservative%27_on_Abortion.htm">Recent polls</a> indicate that the majority of Americans are pro-choice with regards to abortion. This is interesting considering that similar polls tell us that the majority of Americans identify themselves as Christians. This begs the question, Can a Christian support abortion?<span id="more-198"></span></p>
<p>Without getting into any of the medical details of or even physiological reasons for abortions (for I am not a physician or a physiologist), I would like to deal with the issue from a purely theological standpoint. Where one stands on abortion, I submit, has more to do with one&#8217;s theology than they realize.</p>
<p>Can a Christian support abortion? The answer is &#8220;yes,&#8221; if their theology allows them to do so. The issue comes down to one&#8217;s beliefs concerning the creation of the soul. The theological issues of abortion are not spoken of or understood much today, yet the implications are significant. The question that one must ask with regards to this issue is this: When does the soul/spirit (immaterialÂ aspect;Â henceforth <em>soul</em>)Â join with the physical (the material aspect) of a person? This is often referred to as a debate about the constitution of man. If the soulÂ is part of the physical bodyÂ from conception, then abortion is out of the question. The person is a complete person, material and immaterial, from the beginning and has not only divine recognition, but a divine mandate for life. Any premature cessation of this life by an outside agent would amount to murder. But if there is a time when the physical &#8220;fetus&#8221; is without an immaterial aspect, then, during this time, the fetus is not a person, but simply an extension of the mother&#8217;s physical nature. The question is, when does the body receive the soul?</p>
<p>There are two positions that have been represented prominently throughout church history and it is with these two I would like to wrestle.</p>
<p>1. Creationism: The belief that the soul is created directly by God and &#8220;inserted&#8221; into or united with the body which in turn is created indirectly by God through the parents. In other words, the soul is created <em>immediately</em> by God, while the body is created <em>mediately</em> by man. This position has significant support in contemporary and historic theology.Â Noteworthy adherents to this position include Wayne Grudem, Charles Hodge, Louis Berkholf, John Calvin, and enjoys the support of most Roman Catholics. The basic defense for this position is that God, the father of all spirits (<a class="bibleref" title="Heb. 12:9" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Heb.%2012.9/">Heb. 12:9</a>), is the only agent that can create an immaterial entity. Kind gives forth to kind. Man is physical and can only birth physical. Therefore, God must have created the soul directly, outside of the mediating agency of man.</p>
<p>2. Traducianism: (from the Latin <em>tradux</em> meaning &#8220;inheritance or transmission&#8221;) The belief that while God is the ultimate creator of all things, He uses secondary causes to bring them into existence. If God ceased from creation after the sixth day and no longer is creating <em>ex nihilo</em> (out of nothing), then all creation since the sixth day is initiated mediately through secondary causes, including the soul. To put the matter plainly, parents are just as involved in the creation of the soul as they are the body. God does not use special process for the creation of the soul. The basic defense of this position is focused on the negative implications of the creationist position. If God creates the souls directly, without the mediating support of humanity, how does one explain the sinfulness of the soul. If people are born with a fallen sinful nature (<a class="bibleref" title="Ps. 51:5" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Ps.%2051.5/">Ps. 51:5</a>), how did the soul become corrupt? Did God create a sinful soul and place it in a sinful body? Can God create something impure? Traducianist are quick to charge the creationist with making God directlyÂ responsible for sin. The traducianist does not elevate the value of the soul above that of the body.Â Therefore, a traducianist believes that theÂ soul/spirit is created <em>in and with</em> the body. Their is not two acts, but one.Â Â Traducianism is not without it support. Noteworthy traducianist are Tertullian, Martian Luther, Jonathan Edward, and Millard Erickson.</p>
<p>Now, back to the topic of abortion. Theologically speaking, it is impossible for there to be a Christian traducianist who supports abortion. Why? Because the traducianist&#8217;s theology precludes a necessary belief that a person is complete from the moment of conception. ThereÂ can never beÂ a time when the child is without a soul. The parents provide the soul at the same time and in the same way as they provide the body.</p>
<p>A creationist, on the other hand, may support abortion. Why? Because no one can say with any amount of certainty when the body is united with the soul. Is it at conception? Implantation? During the first, second, or third trimester? At birth? Or even sometime after birth like the age of accountability?Â This leaves a slight crack in the door theologically. A deferment to ignoranceÂ is usually the best recourse for the creationist, not knowing when the soul is united to the body. While this deferment may suggest that the best stance for the creationist concerning the abortion issue is one of non-support, this does not necessitate this position. One can be a Christian creationist and support abortion based upon a relianceÂ in the findings of the medical community. If the medical community can provide further information that leans in favor of a stance that a fetus is not really a person based upon issues of psychological response along with physiological issues dealing with the parasitic nature of the fetus, then the creationist may lean in favor of a pro-choice stance on the issue.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want people to get the wrong idea, so I am going to say something as clearly as I can: Our stance concerning the issue of abortion is not our guide with regards to this theological issue. In other words, we do not choose the position that best fits with our agenda one way or another. We must seek to find the truth, not defend our preconceptions. If creationism is the best option in dealing with the biblicalÂ evidence, then that is where we go. We then let the scientific community deal with the issue of abortion, providing answersÂ about when life begins. But if the traducian position provides better answers, then we go there, letting its theological implications provide us with a proper response to the issue of abortion.</p>
<p>I am a traducianist. Not because I seek a solid theological stand against abortions, but because I believe that it is the best option that deals most comprehensively with the biblical data and a systematic Christian worldview. I believe that the creationist view (which is the most prominent and popular among laity) assumes an implicitly unchristian stance concerning the relationship of the body and the soul. There is no reason to say that the soul is of special nature, having to be created directly by God.</p>
<p>This line of thinking (that the soul must be created directly by God) evidences more of a Gnostic worldview than it does a Christian worldview. Gnosticism was a first-century Greek philosophy that crept into Christianity here and there, and still plagues our thinking at the most fundamental level. The Gnostics were dualists, believing that all things material were essentially evil, while all things spiritual were essentially good. For a Gnostic, the ultimate goal was for one to escape the confinement of the material body, finding fulfillment in the spiritual existence. But the Christian worldview is just the opposite. Christianity affirms the essential goodness of all creation, even though it has been infected with sin. Our goal is not to escape the physical world, but to sanctify it. God declared all things good at creation. All that was involved in this declaration was the physical world, including man&#8217;s physical nature. When man sinned, God did not cast aside His original intent opting for a &#8220;plan B,&#8221; but immediately began the process of redeeming the world that He created. When people die, there is an unnatural breach in their personhood, separating the immaterial from the material, but this does not suggest that the immaterial soul is somehow better or more highly favored in God&#8217;s eyes than the body. In fact, the consummation of redemption comes at the resurrection of the body, when the soul is reunited with the <em>physical</em> body and the new heavens and new earth (material) are created.</p>
<p>This Gnostic disdain for the physicality has unfortunately found its way into Christianity in many ways. In the early Church sexÂ was seen as a necessary evil rather than a beautiful creation of God. Monasticism was highly valued thinking that the pleasures of this world were all evil. People have seen culture and government as evil because they are part of this world. The Bible is seen as a book of God to the neglect of the contribution of man (this has had great repercussions hermeneutically). Finally, I believe the Church has devalued the body and elevated the soul, believing that while man can create the body, only God can create the soul. There is no reason for this. They are both equally miraculous.</p>
<p>I believe that the traducianist theory answers the questions of anthropology better than the creationist viewpoint. While their are many good Christians, contemporary and throughout church history, who have held to the creationist view, I believe that they are wrong. Having said this, I believe that when it comes to abortion, while one&#8217;s theology <em>may</em> allow them to support it, I believe that this theology is not only wrong, but evidences more of a Gnostic worldview than a Christian worldview. The body and the soul cannot be dichotomized in such a way. The parents create both the body and the soul at the same time as mediate agents of God.</p>
<p>In short, I believe the issue of abortion is a theological issue. Sadly, I believe, this understanding escapes the forefront of the debate because so many in the church today have relegated theology to a seat of irrelevance and impracticality.</p>
<p>To hearÂ more aboutÂ this issue, listenÂ or watch The Theology Program <a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/ttp/courses/HS/04">session 4</a> of Humanity and Sin.<strong>Similar Posts:</strong>
<ul class="similar-posts">
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/03/the-thing-itself-%e2%80%93-consequences-of-the-abortion-debate/" rel="bookmark" title="March 9, 2008">The Thing Itself &#8211; Consequences of the Abortion Debate</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/03/emergers-on-abortion-where-do-you-stand/" rel="bookmark" title="March 1, 2008">Emergers on Abortion: Where Do You Stand?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/04/a-primer-on-the-christian-understanding-of-capital-punishment/" rel="bookmark" title="April 8, 2008">A Primer on the Christian Understanding of Capital Punishment</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/03/is-birth-control-sin/" rel="bookmark" title="March 14, 2007">Is Birth Control Sin?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/06/would-christ-have-died-had-he-not-been-killed-2/" rel="bookmark" title="June 27, 2007">Would Christ have died had he not been killed? (2)</a></li>
</ul>
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		<title>American Idol and Human Dignity</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/04/american-idol-and-human-dignity/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/04/american-idol-and-human-dignity/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Culture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Out on a limb]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/04/26/american-idol-and-human-dignity/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As I watched American Idol last night (ummm . . . the wife made me), I was encouraged by the example that the organization provided concerning the needs of humanity. This week they raised overï¿½sixty-million dollars for relief for those less fortunate around the world who are in desperate need of food, clothes, and medical [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I watched American Idol last night (ummm . . . the wife made me), I was encouraged by the example that the <a href="http://www.christianpost.com/article/20070424/27054_%27American_Idol%27_to_Boost_%27Nothing_but_Nets%27.htm">organization provided</a> concerning the needs of humanity. This week they raised overï¿½<a href="http://tv.yahoo.com/news/article/urn:newsml:tv.reuters.com:20070427:americanidol_charity_dc__ER:1">sixty-million dollars</a> for relief for those less fortunate around the world who are in desperate need of food, clothes, and medical attention. The important thing to note is that American Idol is not a Christian organization. Yet the most popular show on TV focused on those in need all week. They evidenced the Christian virtue of love in a way that few Christian organizations ever have or could. Taking advantage of their twenty-million plusï¿½viewer base, the message of the need to help the poor was displayed dramatically as they extended their usual thirty-minute show to two hours.<span id="more-175"></span></p>
<p>As Christians, this may confuse us. Why? Because unbelievers are not supposed toï¿½value human dignity and the Christian idea of self-sacrificial love. What are we to make of this? I see four options for the Christian:</p>
<p>1. Christians must have been behind it. This option would suggest that only Christians with a biblical worldview, redeemed by the Spirit of God, can exercise self-sacrificing love. Therefore, the decision makers of American Idol must be Christian.</p>
<p>2. If Christians were not behind it, whomever was ultimately responsible for this week&#8217;s charity did this out of selfish ambition and the love they expressed was not really true. This is the typical option that I find in my circles.ï¿½There must have been money involved somewhere influencing all the decisions.</p>
<p>3. These people were attempting to work their way to heaven. This option wouldï¿½see these good deeds asï¿½a hopeless attempt to place theirï¿½resume before God. Rather than recognizing their depraved condition and calling on God for mercy, they see these acts as making them righteous in the site of God.</p>
<p>4. This was not really a good thing. The money should be invested in sending missionaries with the Gospel. As important as food, clothing, and medicine is, it only effects the temporal well-being of a person. We must concentrate on feeding them true bread, the Gospel, which brings eternal health. Those who would choose this option would say that the &#8220;social gospel&#8221; of temporal well-being is not pleasing in the site of God.</p>
<p>5. Unbelievers can actually do good. This is the most radical for the conservative Christian. This option rejects that we necessarily have to choose one of the previous options. This option would recognize that while people are indeed depraved, separated from God, they can still do good because they still have the image of God residing in them. While they cannot let go of the inherent antagonism that they have for God, they can recognize human dignity and display characteristics of their Creator, even if they reject His authority in their lives.</p>
<p>While I recognize the possibility of the first four, I am inclined (hopeful?)ï¿½to believe that the last might very well be the case. If it were so, it would seem that the acts of unbelievers can be used to teach the church a lesson. What is this lesson? I guess I would say that giving people a glass of water may sometimes be just as pleasing to God as giving them a tract.</p>
<p>The primary difficulty with optionï¿½five is certain biblical passages that suggest that the unredeemed cannot do any good at all. Notice <a class="bibleref" title="Romans 3:12" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Romans%203.12/">Romans 3:12</a>. Paul is making his case against all of humanity, arguing for the universal need of the Gospel based upon universal depravity:</p>
<p align="left"><a class="bibleref" title="Romans 3:12" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Romans%203.12/">Romans 3:12</a> All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.&#8221; (ESV)</p>
<p>&#8220;No one does good, not even one.&#8221; The NET Bible translates the word &#8220;good&#8221; here as &#8220;kindness&#8221; which seems to be a more accurate nuance of the Greek <em>chrestotes</em>. (<strong><font face="Bwgrkl">crhsto,thj</font></strong>). Thisï¿½causes more trouble for the current interpretive stance that I would like to take. Applied to the humanitarian efforts of those behind American Idol, this could mean that no matter how things look, they are not really doing good in any sense.</p>
<p>However, I don&#8217;t think that we should take Paul&#8217;s statements here in first part of Romans as unqualified absolutes concerning the ability of unredeemed humanity to do good in <em>any</em> sense. I believe that Paul is indeed placing a universal indictment upon all mankind, but I believe that this indictment of depravity is, as I said above, with respect to their recognition and relationship with God. In this sense, no one does good in acting in concert with the <em>purest</em> form of motivation, a love for and modeling of God. Those among the unredeemed do good with their fists of antagonismï¿½in the air toward God. Unredeemed mothers love and care for their children with fists in the air toward God. Friends come to the aid of friends with their fists in the air toward God. Fathers go to work to care for their family with their fists in the air toward God. In the case of American Idol&#8217;s benevolence, if they are unredeemed, they may do good, but they do this good with their fists in the air toward God. The efforts of all these people can evidence the &#8220;good&#8221; that God proclaimed upon creation (<a class="bibleref" title="Gen. 1:31" href="http://www.esvbible.org/search/Gen.%201.31/">Gen. 1:31</a>). Inï¿½this sense, we would say that God&#8217;s common grace allows all people to do good, even if they do so while remaining antagonistic toward God.</p>
<p>Something to think about.<strong>Similar Posts:</strong>
<ul class="similar-posts">
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/engaging-postmodernism-4-views/" rel="bookmark" title="February 27, 2007">Engaging Postmodernism: 4 Views</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/03/engaging-postmodernism-4-views-3/" rel="bookmark" title="March 3, 2007">Engaging Postmodernism (3): Changing the Horse</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/03/engaging-postmodernism-4/" rel="bookmark" title="March 13, 2007">Engaging Postmodernism (4): Changing the Rope</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/03/engaging-postmodernism-4-views-2/" rel="bookmark" title="March 1, 2007">Engaging Postmodernism (2): Denying the Horse is Postmodern</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/03/engaging-postmodernism-4-views-4/" rel="bookmark" title="March 15, 2007">Engaging Postmodernism (5): Changing the Water</a></li>
</ul>
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		<title>Does Christian Activism Actually Encourage Immorality?</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/04/does-christian-activism-actually-encourage-immorality/</link>
		<comments>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/04/does-christian-activism-actually-encourage-immorality/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Culture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Out on a limb]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/04/09/does-christian-activism-actually-encourage-immorality/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Many of you remember the television series Married with Children. I sure do. It was one of those shows like Austin Powers that you just hated to love. I admit, I watched it from time to time and could not help but laugh even though it was filled with much adult humor that was probably not too [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of you remember the television series <em>Married with Children</em>. I sure do. It was one of those shows like <em>Austin Powers</em> that you just hated to love. I admit, I watched it from time to time and could not help but laugh even though it was filled with much adult humor that was probably not too edifying for my Christian walk. But it was kinda funny. (Okay, confession over.) As you may or may not know, each show was rank and filled with sexual humor. The misery of family life was exemplified and exaggerated through adulterous suggestions from the married couple, child neglect, and dishonor in general.<span id="more-160"></span></p>
<p>Well, what many of you may not know was that in 1987 when FOX first aired this show, the ratings were not good. In fact, FOX has all but decided to cancel this series. It was at this point that a certain activist began to publicly voice her displeasure at the shows raunchy theme and unhealthy influence. Once her voice became loud enough &#8211; you guessed it &#8211; the shows ratings sky-rocketed. This woman&#8217;s activism seems to have given life to a doomed show which propelled it to ten more years of stardom making it one of the most successful sitcoms of all time. Not only this, but the success it had in crossing the line influenced others to follow in the same suit. Since then . . . well, you know the story. The odd thing is that if it went for this protesters loud and passionate voice of moral activism, it is very possible that <em>Married with Children</em> would now be filed in the ranks of the lessons learned about what not to air.</p>
<p>What I have here are musings. I think that they might very well have some validity to them, but just see them as food for thought, not part of Michael Patton&#8217;s stated beliefs. I would like to hear your thoughts.</p>
<p>1. It would seem that Christian activism can often have the reverse effect. Could it be when Christians speak to loudly about issues, that the problem about which we are speaking worsens? If so, why?</p>
<p>2. Related to this (an possibly offering an answer) is the effect of legalism. If this woman&#8217;s voice brought attention to the &#8220;forbidden&#8221; message of Married with Children, didn&#8217;t this appeal to humanities desire to touch that which we are not supposed to touch? Legalism is such that the forbidden becomes desired. What would happen if we did not forbid such things? Let me step out on a limb with a very relevant answer (and I can already hear the cracking of the branch). What would happen if we no longer spoke so loudly about the dangers of pornography? No more promotion of Net Nanny from the pulpit, no more public statements about how pornography is destroying our culture, and no more public boycotts of those who support the industry. Is it possible that our regulating voice has given excessive life to the porn industry? What if Christians just said to people, &#8220;God has nothing against porn and neither does the Church. What God does have a problem with is lust. So, if you can look at porn without lusting, have at it&#8221; and leave it at that?</p>
<p>Look to the problem of alcohol as well. From what I understand the countries that do not have a law against underage drinking have less a problem with alcoholism than America. Why? Because it intrigues people to do what we are not supposed to. If drinking is forbidden, then I am going to do it. If it is not forbidden, its not quite as exciting. Sin excites.</p>
<p>I learned from a very wise man something that I will take with me until I die. Sin is like air in a glass bottle. There are only two ways to get it out. You can either try to suck it out (which won&#8217;t get you too far), or you can fill it up with something else (purpose, meaning, Christ).  When you are filled with something else, the air will simply just disappear on its own.</p>
<p>Is Christian activism attempting to suck the air out of the bottle? Does Christian activism actually encourage immorality?<strong>Similar Posts:</strong>
<ul class="similar-posts">
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/09/is-natural-revelation-also-gods-word/" rel="bookmark" title="September 7, 2008">Is Natural Revelation Also God’s Word?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/is-natural-revelation-gods-word/" rel="bookmark" title="September 7, 2007">Is Natural Revelation Also God&#8217;s Word?</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/01/the-sex-talk/" rel="bookmark" title="January 19, 2007">The Sex Talk</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2010/12/top-ten-movie-scenes-ever/" rel="bookmark" title="December 27, 2010">Top Ten Movie Scenes Ever</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/03/converse-with-scholars-do-we-need-to/" rel="bookmark" title="March 9, 2007">Converse with Scholars? Do we need to?</a></li>
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