Download (right-click to download)

J.P. Moreland considers The Kingdom Triangle his most important work to date. If you are familiar with J.P., then you understand what a significant claim this is. If you are not familiar with J.P., shame on you.

During this Converse with Scholars session, J.P. covers the three legs of what he calls “The Kingdom Triangle.” What is it? Essentially, it is a balanced Christian life prepared for God’s Kingdom priorities. In this session you will hear our discussion with J.P. about the Christian’s need for a robust intellectual engagement with the culture. Then the conversation moves to the life of the soul, spiritual disciplines, and our responsibility to nurture our inner life. Finally, the role of the Spirit is discussed. J.P. challenges Evangelical Christians to consider again what it means to have the power of the Spirit in the church. Even if you don’t agree with everything J.P. says, his irenic tone and serious scholarship make the conversation one of the most stimulating that we have had to date on Converse with Scholars. It is worth your time. Thanks J.P. for your time!

J.P. Considers this one his most important works. It should be a great broadcast. All are welcome. Find out how to join.

Broadcast #26: Tom Schreiner talks about the Protestant doctrine of justification and the current state of the Evangelical-Catholic dialogue.

Converse with Scholars RSS feed | Tom Schreiner Page

Considering the recent conversion of Francis Beckwith to Roman Catholicism, we have asked Dr. Tom Schreiner to join the program once again this Thursday evening on Converse with Scholars to discuss the Reformed doctrine of Justification. We will focus our concern on the differences between the Roman Catholic view and that of the Reformers. That is two weeks of Schreiner in a row! (See here for a list of Dr. Schreiner’s books).

All are welcom to join. This will be a live interactive online conversation. Find out how to join by clicking the graphic.

Hope to see you there.

Basics:

1. Know Catholic doctrine truly before you criticize it emotionally.
2. Know Reformed doctrine truly before you adhere to it traditionally.
3. Know what the essential points of disagreement are and don’t focus on the smaller points.
4. Understand the reason for the Reformation, knowing the two key issues were justification and authority.

As well, considering Beckwith said that a major reason for his conversion was due to his studies in the early church (”I became convinced that the Early Church is more Catholic than Protestant”), you need to be aware of the assumption that is involved in such a statement. Even if were true that the early church was more Catholic than Protestant, is there justification in adapting your theology to mirror that of the early church or do we see doctrine as progressively understood and articulated in history as the Reformers view of semper reformanda (”always reforming”)? Don’t know what I am talking about? View or listen to session 10 of Introduction to Theology here (listen to or watch all four). It will give you a better understanding of the options, helping you to understand the traditional approaches of both Catholicism (and Orthodoxy) and Protestantism.

Keep an eye on the blogs as we may be having a special announcement about an upcoming Converse with Scholars to deal with this issue.

Roger Olson was on Converse with Scholars and did a tremendous job of explaining Arminianism. I was not blowing smoke during the broadcast when I repeatedly told him how much he has influenced my methodology and approach to theological issues. I can say with all honesty that Roger Olson is a top rate scholar who represents Christ with great integrity of the mind and an irenic tone. But I can say with just as much honesty that I do not agree with his conclusions about the doctrine of salvation and how it is appropriated to one’s life.

Why am I still a Calvinist? Well, this would take much more than a blog to expound upon and I could offer many reasons (as well as explain the difficulties that make things more complicated), but I want to focus only on one, the issue of unconditional election. As well, I am only going to focus on one passage, Romans 9.

While I do agree that the Scriptures teach that God loves all people and desires all to come to repentance (and I don’t qualify the “all” of 1 Tim. 2:4 as some), I also believe that this love does not motivate Him to elect all people to salvation. Unconditional election is the issue. Olson said it himself. There are incompatibilities within the Calvinist and Arminian systems of theology that make it impossible to have a hybrid. There is no middle ground between unconditional election and conditional election that I know of. I believe that God has unconditionally elected certain individuals before the beginning of time for salvation, and passed over others that He loves. I don’t understand why He passes over anyone, I just believe that the Scripture clearly says that He does. Of all the passages that teach unconditional election, there is one that I simply cannot explain outside of a Calvinist worldview–Romans 9. Romans 9 is so clear concerning the issue of unconditional election that in order to deny it I believe that one only has three options: 1) Deny inerrancy and attribute this teaching to the remnants of Paul’s pharisaic theology that he integrated with his new faith but was wrong (ouch!). 2) Deny that Romans should be part of the canon (overkill, don’t ya think?). 3) Adopt a radical new hermeneutical strategy that sees the difficulty of this passage, but denies its clear reading in favor of an interpretation that fits with an already supposed theological system (we all do this sometimes). While I am often tempted to choose the latter, I have not as of this date in my life. I believe that the plain reading of this passage tells us that Paul believed in what is to most a radical doctrine that seems unfair. Here is the passage:

Romans 9:6-24 ⁶ But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; ⁷ nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.” ⁸ That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. ⁹ For this is the word of promise: “AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.” ¹⁰ And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; ¹¹ for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, ¹² it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” ¹³ Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.” ¹⁴ What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! ¹⁵ For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” ¹⁶ So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. ¹⁷ For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.” ¹⁸ So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. ¹⁹ You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” ²⁰ On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? ²¹ Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? ²² What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? ²³ And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, ²⁴ even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

We must understand some contextual background here. In Romans 9, Paul is defending the security of a believer that was put forth in Romans 8. Remember, he ended that chapter by saying that there was nothing that could separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. In the context, the love is the love that foreknew, predestined, called, justified, and glorified the elect. Therefore, according to Paul, there is nothing that can separate the elect from God’s salvation.

That is an incredible statement that Paul knows must be defended. He had been in the position before teaching this same thing to others. I could see it now. In Ephesus, teaching on the security of the believer, Paul makes the same proposition: “Nothing can separate you from God’s electing love in Christ Jesus.” Someone in the audience raises their hand and says, “Paul, this is great and all, but I have a problem.” “What is that,” Paul responds. “Well you say that the elect are secure in God, right?” “That is right” Paul says. “Well, what about Israel? Weren’t they God’s elect? Weren’t they promised security as well? What happened to them? They don’t seem to be following God right now? If their election is the same as my election, my election does not seem to secure.”

It was a good objection and needed to be responded to. Paul does so in Romans 9-11. He begins 9 by saying, “But it is not as though the word of God has failed” (Rom. 9:6). Why? Because he sets up a diatribe (a conversation with an imaginary person) in anticipation of the response that the Romans will have to the claims of security in Romans 8. He wants to show that the word of God has not failed with Israel and it will not fail with Christians. He ends this section by reinforcing the bold security claims of Romans 8, “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable” (Rom. 11:29). So the entire section is about security. It is in defense of God; it is in defense of His claim that we cannot be separated from His love.

Paul’s explanation for the apparent failure of God electing love with Israel is right to the point. He explains that God’s election of Israel, with regards to ultimate salvation as he has been explaining it, was not of the entire nation without exception. In fact, it was always only a select few, a remnant, that were the true elect of God. He illustrates this historically by referring to Jacob and Esau (Rom. 9:10-13). Even though they were both from Israel, only one was chosen. Therefore not all Israel is elect. He later illustrates this by referring to the elect within Israel at the time of Elijah (Rom. 11:2-4). The argument again is the same. Not all of Israel could be considered among the true elect. Finally, he illustrates this in a contemporary way by saying that he himself is an Israelite and he has placed his faith in God (Rom. 11:1, 5). This is enough to show that God’s security is based upon the true elect, a remnant within Israel. Therefore, God has not broken His word in the past with Israel, and will not do so in the present or future. The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.

Once again, this brings up another objection that Paul has most certainly heard through the years of teaching. Imagine this Ephesian once again hesitantly raising his hand saying, “Okay Paul. Forgive me, but now I have another question. If this is true, that God elects some individuals and not others as was the case with Jacob and Esau, this seems very unfair. Why does God still find fault? Who resists His will?”

Now at this point we must stop and realize the significance of this question with regards to the Calvinism Arminianism debate. Remember, this is the question that we are all baffled by when we first read this. When Paul says, “So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires” (Rom. 9:18), we are taken aback. We think to ourselves the same as Paul’s imaginary objector. How can God hold someone accountable for making this choice when it is only God’s election that can cause them to do otherwise? It is a good question. One that I often ask myself. But we must realize this: the question itself helps us to understand that we are following Paul correctly. If you don’t empathize with the objection, then you have misunderstood Paul. But if we do understand how such a question could arise out of Paul’s seemingly radical comments, it means that we are interpreting Paul the same way as the objector. Now, when the objector says, “How can God still find fault, for who resists Him will?” if the Arminian position of conditional election were correct (that God simply looks ahead into the future and has decided to elect all who trust in Christ), there is really no problem. Paul just needs to calm the objector down by explaining how he has misunderstood the argument. If the Arminian position were correct, this is how we would expect the diatribe to proceed:

Objector: ”If this is true, why does God still find fault in people. Who can resist His will.”
Paul: “Oh, you have misunderstood me. You think that I am saying that God’s will is the ultimate cause of our salvation, not ours. Let me clarify. God’s election is not based upon His sovereign unconditional decree, but upon your will to choose Him. Therefore, He finds fault in people who do not choose Him by their own freedom. Doen’t this make perfect sense?”
Objector: “Oh, yes, it does. I feel much better. But you need to teach more clearly in the future. I thought you were saying something radically different.”

But of course this is not the direction the conversation goes. In fact, it gets stronger and more shocking. Paul did not have a definite answer to the objectors question. He confirms that the question assumes the right presupposition (unconditional election) by His response. ”On the contrary, who are you to answer back to God oh man. Will the thing molded say to the molder why have you made me in such a way? . . . ” I could see the objector cowering in the fierceness of the response. He is simply doing the same thing that I would do and have done upon reading this passage. The response let’s us know that while we don’t have the answer we were looking for, the presupposition, unconditional election, is indeed what Paul is teaching. There is no other way to take it in my opinion.

What a fearful thing. What an awesome thing. What a confusing thing. What a terrible thing. In sum, I believe that Romans is inerrant. I believe that Romans should be included in the canon. I cannot approach this passage from any other hermeneutic than an authorial intent. It seems to be the case that the intent of Paul was to say that God unconditionally elects some people to salvation and not others. This is the Calvinist’s doctrine of Predestination. This is why I am still a Calvinist.

Reclaiming the Mind Ministries is hosting a special Converse with Scholars during the next two weeks. I am very excited about this program as we are having two great scholars on to represent their respecting positions (although, don’t we always?). Tonight, March 22 at 10pm EST, Roger Olson will be joining us to discuss the Arminian position. The following Thursday, March 29 at 10pm EST, Samuel Storms will be discussing the Calvinist position. Rhome Dyck and myself will be hosting the program as Ed Komoszewski is out of town.

As you all know, I am a committed Calvinist. I believe very deeply in the sovereign grace of God (even though I don’t understand its mysteries). At the same time, I respect the Arminian position very much. I understand why Arminians believe the way they do even though I don’t agree. My mother was Arminian with regards to the issue of predestination. We used to have great and bloody battles at our home. We had to call a truce about six years ago.

To sum it up as concisely as I know how, here are the basic differences:

Calvinism: Emphasizes the sovereign hand of God in election. Before all time, God unconditionally chose certian individuals for salvation while either passing over the rest (moderate Calvinism) or actively predestining the rest to hell (extreme Calvinism). God has provided a way for the elect to be redeemed. The Cross secured redemption only for these elect. Man is in such a state of depravity that outside God’s regenerating grace, he cannot exercise faith. God’s grace is the means by which the elect are saved and kept. These elect will persevere until the end because God is the one who sustains them.

Arminianism: Emphasizes the love of God and the responsibility of man. God loves all people and desires all to come to salvation. Therefore, God has provided a way through the Cross for all people to have a chance. God does not intervene in the free-will decisions of man, therefore it is up to man to choose God. God provides prevenient (helping) grace to allow man to overcome their depravity and choose God. God’s election is based upon His foreknowledge. He elects to save all those who will trust in Christ. People, however, can still exercise their free will and turn from God, giving back the gift of salvation. Therefore, people are responsible to persevere until the end to secure redemption.

Well, anyhow, I hope you can join us tonight and next week. Find out more here.

Join us! Find out more here: http://www.ttpstudents.com/content/rmm/paltalk

Hope to see you there.

Some of you have been involved with us for some time and some of you are just making your way around. I am glad that you are involved. Your interest and involvement make the lives of us who work for Reclaiming the Mind Ministries full of more joy than you can imagine. I am committed to our mission of making a significant cultural impact by making theology accessible. My desire when I started this ministry was to bridge the gap that exists between the seminary and the pew. I have much hope that our ministry can make a significant impact in the lives of so many. We had over two million hits to our website last month alone. The testimonies of life change are incredible. I just spoke to a thirty year old young man who told me that he was on the verge of leaving the Church out of confusion and discouragement. Our ministry, he told me, has brought him back to a place of hope and excitement. So much so, he is considering going to seminary. I have many testimonies exactly like this every day. They literally overwhelm me.

At the same time, we at Reclaiming the Mind Ministries need to meet our significant financial needs that are always before us. Just to give you an idea of what it takes to run this ministry, let me give you a few insights into our budget.

1. The Theology Program is reaching people and churches all over the world. We are amazed at the amount of people whose lives are being changed through this ministry. While we charge $100 per student to take each course, this barely touches the actual functioning costs. On average, our costs are about $500 per student. This means that $400 is being covered by donations. Consequently, in order to make one semester possible, online and in our local campuses, our costs are close to $150,000, with $50, 000 coming from tuition. We need significant ministry partners to come along side us to make each semester possible. If you believe in The Theology Program, please join us in making each semester possible.

2. Converse with Scholars is a ministry that seeks to connect the average person with the greatest Christian scholars in the world. Converse with Scholars has been going now for a little over a year. We have brought to your home over twenty top scholars over the last year and plan on doubling this number in the next eight months. Each broadcast costs RMM about $2,000 to host and produce. Our desire is to continue on with this ministry, but we need partners who will sponsor these broadcasts through their support. Please consider joining us in bringing these scholars to people’s front door.

3. Theology Unplugged is a podcast ministry that gives people all over the world access to theological issues in a way that is focused on the plight and perils of the postmodern confusion that has overwhelmed Christianity and evangelicalism. We have recorded over 50 broadcasts that are reaching people in dozens of countries every day. Our irenic approach has refreshed thousands of confused Christians and given seekers and skeptics a new way to look at Christian theology and apologetics. Theology Unplugged has so much potential to help people take their first step, getting them involved in all the ministries of RMM, but not without a cost. We need partners so that this ministry can grow and begin to realize its potential.

4. We also have many projects. We are in the process of translating our materials into other languages so that those all over the world can benefit from this ministry. We also are actively creating a program of theology for children so that parents will have a resource that goes beyond the general principles of the Christian faith, but walks children through issues of apologetics and theology in a compelling and entertaining way. As well, we have a ministry to those who are entering into college in the works. We desire to prepare them for the theological and biblical challenges that they will certainly face once they move away from home.

5. Along with this there are the administrative costs of the website, design, software, computers, and the like.

I want you to know that I have great confidence in our mission and competence of all those involved. Lord willing, we will be able to move forward in a significant way.

All of this to say that we desperately need ministry partners like you. If you are benefiting and believe in what we are doing please join us in a significant way. Please consider what the Lord may be leading you to do in partnering with us. Please understand, without your partnership, this ministry cannot succeed. 

If you would like to talk to me about this more, please email me and we can get in touch. Or, if you would like to partner with us now, please go here and make a donation. If you would just like someone to contact you, please send an email here and someone will get in touch with you.

For those of you who benefit from our ministry and make our joy in service possible, thank you!

Michael Patton
President, Reclaiming the Mind Ministries

Having said that, when Dan Wallace and Gary Habermas were discussing back and forth on the microphone (Dan had to take the role of the interviewer!), I was thinking to myself, this is what I had dreamed about when CWS was first envisioned. It gave me a renewed resolve to see it work. I am no doomsdayer and I try to see the best in everything, but one thing I do know is that our culture is becoming more ignorant every day of the issues that matter. Recent polls show things are still in decline when it comes to religious and biblical knowledge. The average person just does not have any idea of the level of Christian scholarship, Evangelical Christian scholarship, that is actually out there. There is an extreme gap between the average Christian and the type of scholarship that is represented by many evangelical professors. Dan Wallace, Gary Habermas, Paul Copan, Mike Licona, and Robert Bowman are top scholars that I am proud to be associated with and I am glad they are doing what they are doing.

Even though things did not work out as well as we had hoped, I have renewed confidence and resolve to do whatever I can to make these scholars accessible to everyone. If this happens, I imagine The Discovery Channel will not find the naive audience that gives them a hearing when they air such childish nonsense that is better suited along side the arguments of the flat-earth society.

Considering all of the attention that has been given to the supposed Jesus Tomb special that was aired Sunday night, we have decided to devote this week’s Converse with Scholars to the subject. Thursday night we will be welcoming Mike Licona, Dan Wallace, Robert Bowman, and Gary Habermas to discuss this issue.

This will be a two hour special where Habarmas will give an hour long presentation then we will have a panel discussion between Dan Wallace, Mike Licona, and Robert Bowman. I have invited Paul Copan to join us as well . . . we will see!

If you have yet to attend a Converse with Scholars, you are really missing out. You actually get to talk to the scholar live online from the comfort of your own home. The issues being discussed are those which every Christian needs to be aware as these are opportunities for us to share the most important event in history–the resurrection of Christ. It will certianly be a night devoted to resurrection apologetics. Come learn how to defend Christ’s resurrection.

Invite all your friends and family to this special event.

Find out more here. Notice, we will be meeting on Connection Gate, not Paltalk.

Well, it is about time. I don’t have any idea how this escaped my notice but it looks like Walden Media, the force behind the movie Chronicles of Narnia, has decided to move forward with a the Screwtape movie project. This movie should be done really well. Douglas Gresham, C.S. Lewis’ faithful stepson has been heading up the project. I actually had the opportunity to talk to him about this when he was in town a couple of years ago. I have eagerly be anticipating its arrival. I would be in prayer about this movie as it has the potential to make a very unique impact and have a very large appeal in our culture. Once again, the legacy of C.S. Lewis lives on, moving beyond whatever his hope or dreams could have ever imagined. Thank you Lewis.

Maybe we can twist Ed Komozewski’s are to getting Douglas Gresham on the Converse with Scholars program in the near future to talk about this and the ongoing Chronicles of Narnia project. 

If you have yet to read this book, I encourage you to do so and prepare for the movie. Purchase it here.

We are going to be on Paltalk again, but, as you may know, we have purchased our own room so you will not get the ads.
Find out how to join here.

Tonight’s Guest: Kelly M. Kapic and Justin Taylor
Topic: Overcoming Sin and Temptation. “John Owen’s: Overcoming Sin and Temptation.”
Date and Time: Feb. 15th, 2007 9pm Eastern

Join the discussion and find out why modern theologians like J. I. Packer, Sinclair Ferguson, and Roger Nicole say that John Owen is the greatest theologian of all time. Owen’s three classic works on sin and temptation have revolutionized the lives of countless believers and they can radically transform your life, too! Kapic and Taylor have made these writings more widely accessible than ever before, and they’ve done it without sacrificing any of Owen’s richness and depth.

To join, download and log on to Paltalk and look for the Reclaiming the Mind room in the Christianity section.

These issues are those that have caused much thought, discussion, debate, and, indeed, division within the church. Covenant Theologians (CT) and Dispensationalists have often been at odds when it comes to their positions concerning the ministry of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament. It is an issue of continuity and discontinuity. CTs have traditionally tended towards a belief that the Holy Spirit worked in the same way in the OT as in the NT. Dispensationalists have traditionally tended in the other direction, believing that the Holy Spirit’s ministry was much different in the OT than in the NT. The implications go beyond simply being interesting, but are important to our understanding of salvation and sanctification. Were OT saints regenerated? Did they have the same security as NT saints?

In 1 Samuel 16:14 we are told that the Holy Spirit departed from Saul, being replaced by an evil spirit. “Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrorized him.” Can that still happen? David cries out to the Lord, pleading with Him not to take His Spirit from him. “Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me” (Psalm 51:11). Would God have taken His Spirit away from David?

These are important theological and exegetical questions. That is why we have invited Jim Hamilton to explore these issues on the next Converse with Scholars. I invite you all to join us. If you have yet to attend a Converse with Scholars session, you are really missing out. Its easy. You simply put the kids to bed, grab a bag of popcorn and a coke, pause Smallville (or just record it to DVR), kick your feet up on your desk and log on. Here you have the opportunity to engage live with the best Christian scholars from all over the world. Don’t miss it.

We are going to be meeting on Paltalk again. For those of you who don’t like the ads (which is everyone!), it will comfort you to know that we have purchased a room for these events that will only display our ads until we feel comfortable switching to ConnectionGate.

To join, it is simple. Just download Paltalk, register, and then search for Converse with Scholars in the Christianity section. We also should have a direct link into the room from our site. We will be meeting at 9pm EST. Hope to see you.

It should be up on the site for download soon. Ed Komozewski did a good job in moderating it–even if I did have to put him in time-out for a few minutes so that I could take over. Hey…CWS is too much fun for just one host.

Here is a report on the audience:

Rhome sat quietly and listened. I hope he took some of it in. I have been working on that guy for five years now.

Ed Kratz ate popcorn, just excited that CG was working.

Taffy’s Darth Vader imitation was handed over to Ed Komo.

Mark Warnick was just surprised to be in the room.

Carrie was busy IMing everyone saying “Isn’t this great!”

Clay, who never has any sound problems said, “I can’t hear anymore” and left.

Korena never asked one question (can you believe it?)

Dr. Sawyer was jealous that he was not on mic so he came in and took over after hours.

Me, I did really well. You should have been there.

That sums it up.

You all have been gracious and patient as we switch from Paltalk to ConnectionGate. Thank you.