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On God’s Election of Obama
by C Michael PattonNovember 7th, 2012
65 Comments
I have kept an eye on what people are saying in my circles about Obama’s re-election. Things don’t look too good there. Fear, anger, frustration, and hopelessness are filling the thoughts of those of us who are supposed to have the most hope. There are few times when the sin of idolatry is revealed more clearly than after a Presidential election. One person I know says they are taking off a week of work to recover. Another says they are leaving the country. Yet another says this is the downfall of America. It is the end. The downfall of America? The end? Really?
It is hard for me to get too upset about these elections. Sure, there are implications. These implications extend to my family and my job. They make me look at the people in my country and think, “Really, is this who we are now? Is this what it has come down to?” Were I to place the full weight of my body (which is getting lighter every day!) on the chair of human achievement, I suppose I would feel less secure today than I did yesterday. But I don’t and I can’t. In fact, I found myself rejoicing once the results came in.
Obama is our president for the next four years. How bad is that? I suppose I could talk about all the issues involved, both economic and moral. I suppose I could talk about how much worse it is now going to get. I suppose that I could get ready for the bleakest outcome: increased unemployment, higher taxes, lower pay, fewer donations to Credo House, waiting in line for health care, homosexual marriage, increased toleration of the death of the unborn, decreased toleration of Christianity, and a thousand other things. But this would demonstrate a lack of perspective. Whether the winner had been Obama or Romney, I still pause and take account of this fact: I live in the most secure, free, and moral country that has probably ever existed. And we are a long way from giving up this title. Are we heading toward a “fall”? Maybe, but we are still a long way from the cliff. In fact, it is not even in sight yet.
But let us say for the sake of argument that Obama is the president who will lead the charge off the cliff. Let us say that America is heading for disaster. Let us say that in ten years our teeth will be on edge due to the sour grapes Obama is handing out. Let us say that Obama will be the cause for an imminent loss of security, freedom, and morality. What then? If we knew this without a doubt, what then? Is it then time to despair? Is it then time for us to tear our cloaks, shave our heads, and go into mourning? How could it be?
My favorite theologian and philosopher, Bono, once said in a song about Christ’s death, “I held the scabbard when the soldier drew his sword. I threw the dice and they pierced his side. But I have seen love conquer the great divide” (“When Love Comes to Town”). The worst event in the history of the world was when we hung our Creator on a tree and let him die. We all went to the polling booth and said, “We will not have this man to rule over us.” We voted against the very incarnation of goodness, righteousness, and truth. We held the scabbard of the soldier’s sword as he killed our savior. Yet, while this was the worst event in the history of humanity, it was also the best. While it was the day for the greatest mourning in the history of the world, it was also the day for the greatest rejoicing in the history of the world. While angels gawked at the arrogance of man, they gawked more at the love of God. God drew the sword on himself that day. He was in charge. I held the scabbard as the King of Kings was ousted from office. Yet God’s plan was that through evil, greatness might be revealed. Have we not learned? Do we crowd in front of the cross with hopeless despair, or with great anticipation and excitement of what God is doing?
We all stand in front of the cross on election day, not knowing what God’s plan is. Will righteousness be delivered or killed? Will evil triumph or be smothered? Will we begin to heal or continue to be beaten? Who knows? But what we don’t have the right to do is keep from rejoicing in the expectation that our Father is going about his business and he has something in mind.
Obama has been reelected. Please don’t come down too hard on me as I rejoice. My kids and I got down on our knees tonight and prayed that Romney would win. He did not. Yet in a very real way, I am excited. No, I don’t agree with Obama, his policies, his plans, or his dreams. Yet I have this really awesome Father who does incredible things like kill his own Son. I have this Father who knows what he is doing and is in complete control. I have this Father who elected Barack Obama as his man and you are not going to believe what comes next. Yes, it looks bad. Yes, there are a lot of people in this crowd crying. Yes, they are without hope. But let me tell you about the way he works. It is too cool.
I am in the crowd tonight listening. Dashed dreams and hopelessness are topics of conversation. But I can’t join in. I know the Guy in charge of all this. And because I know his M.O., I will hold the scabbard with great anticipation and joy. God’s will has been done tonight and I can’t wait to see what he does next. Don’t fault me for rejoicing in the unexpected and unwanted. I can’t help it. This is Christianity 101.
“Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.” –Titus 3:1-2
Pray for my president that God elected tonight. I commit to loving and encouraging him. I will speak no ill of him. He is the man God elected and my arms are laid down. There is no authority except from God and who am I to refuse to hold the scabbard of God’s mission? Selah.
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65 Comments
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Yes, I agree with you. I, too, was hoping for a different outcome, but I also know that God controls the outcome no matter who is in office. This is not a time for despair, but for opportunity. We get to depend on God, I mean, really depend on Him for another four more years! What would happen to this dependence if someone we loved and admired was in office? Would our dependence subtly be shifted away from God? God has a plan and many surprises along the way. Let’s keep the faith and our eyes open and in the weeks, months and years ahead us, be amazed by His grace!
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I’m also disheartened and hard pressed, perplexed, but not giving in to despair. Ultimately, it’s a broken world. I don’t think it’s meant to work right until the only truly righteous Leader returns to accomplish that. Equally disheartening was the loss of Prop 37 in California that would have required a simple labeling of GMO foods, something 40 countries around the world already ban or require labeling of –even China.
I think I differ though on whether or not God elected Obama. I would see it as allowed by God as a result of the free choice bestowed upon man both by God and by our system of democracy, and perhaps this is what you mean. But do the people not get the leadership that they deserve or bring upon themselves, not as a result of an act of God but as a result of their own decisions?
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LOL, where on the stage of truth would you (royal you) place “the fact that the U.S is the most secure, free AND moral country that ever existed”? Interesting. Free, been to the Netherlands recently just to give an example?
I am not saying the opposite, I have no proof. It was just interesting claims (did not say unusual) to be classified as facts. Oh, yes, free could mean different things. Didn’t think about that. 
Sorry about the defeat. Hats off to the Obama campaign though. Cleverly played. Observation: Weird how two terms seems to have become standard. No?
Cheers, big ears!
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As a Canadian who has been saddened at the rancor, bitterness, name calling and outrageous assassinations of character on both sides of the political divide (it also seems to be increasing in my country) all I can say is “Preach it brother!” Once we lose sight of the sovereignty of God, there is nothing but despair lying at the door!
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“I held the scabbard when the soldier drew his sword. I threw the dice and they pierced his side. But I have seen love conquer the great divide” (“When Love Comes to Town”).
Did Bono sing that line, or was it BB King that was singing the song with him?
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My children have reached the age to be keenly interested in this years election and have all sorts of thoughts on the subject. We just remind them of the story of how Saul became king and how the people of Israel asked Samuel to give them a king so they would be like other the other nations surrounding them. The Israelites were warned of the consequences of this shift and they still demanded a king. God told Samuel essentially, “They have not rejected you (Samuel) but they have rejected me”. Our leaders are a collective reflection of what we have become as a society. Our circumstances may become unpleasant or even dangerous but God has worked in much more oppressive societies to bring His people closer to him and I believe we are no different. I am saddened by the outcome of the elections (not just the presidential) mostly because it is a reflection of what we have become. It gives me an urgency for myself and family to become more diligent on discovering what God would have us learn and do as Christians. It is time to grow up and take responsibility for what God has given us for future generations, beginning with our own spiritual walk. And as we travel – we pray for our nation and our people.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
18
Everything you feel about the imminent disaster this country faces is exactly what >50% of the country would have felt if Romney had been elected (myself included).
I find it hard to believe that as a Christian you would prefer Romney (a Mormon) over Obama (a Christian). The issues I suspect that swayed you in this direction are abortion, contraception, and gay marriage.
On abortion, no one is arguing whether it is immoral or not. They are just arguing creating laws against it. Why? Because such laws do not reduce the number of abortions. (Europe with predominantly legal abortions has far fewer abortions per capita than Africa and Latin America where it is predominantly illegal. We could also look at drug consumption in the US. With all the laws against it and money spent fighting it, the overall rate has remained steady for decades.) The only thing that has been proven to reduce the abortion rate is readily (freely is even better) contraception. The other things that help are education and higher standards of living. If you really want to reduce the abortion rate, focus your energy on these things.
On contraception. This should be an individual choice that no one can force onto another. And yes, if you provide health insurance for others, they should have the opportunity to decide for themselves. Also, contraception will help achieve your goal of eradicating abortion (see above).
On gay marriage. No is forcing any religion to recognize gay marriage. They won’t be marriages in the eyes of God, but such couples will have the same rights as any other legally married couple. This does not promote the sin of homosexuality (that will stay about the same, though it should reduce promiscuity).
In all other respects (I would even include these, but I’ll concede them) Obama is more of a Christian than Romney. Romney has proven himself to be a cynic that will do anything, say anything to achieve his goals, political or economic. This is not Christian.
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0
BB sang it R David.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
10
My disgust over the election results does not negate my belief that God is entirely and wholly sovereign over the situation.
We can rejoice in His sovereign rule but be wholly saddened over the state of sinfulness that brought about such judgment.
Are we to think Jesus questioned God’s sovereignty when He wept for Israel?
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Well said Brother.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
4
As much as I hate to admit it, I breathed a sigh of relief when Obama won (I was never an fan of Obama in the first place). And since I can’t vote in this country, rest assured that my opinion did not change the outcome of this election.
That said, I can certainly understand the anger and frustration over this election. I felt the same way (though I doubt as strongly) when Harper won the election in Canada, and when Jean Charest lost to Quebec sovereignists. We sometime are so invested in our vision of what the future ought to be that… it becomes our religion. In one sense, anything that doesn’t go our way is surely doomed to hell in one form or another; in another sense, we attach too much importance on one election, one party, or one candidate (such as when Obama was elected 4 years ago).
I’m afraid that we sometimes give ourselves way too much credit. Yes, with conviction we can make a difference, but we should also keep in mind that we are only human, and God, not us, has everything under control the way He sees fit.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
5
God is NOT the author of evil, but as the sovereign and providential God, He does allow what the “people” want! We can see this in the OT “Israel”, and there the people wanted the gods of the nations! And since, what a hard road for “Israel” (Hosea 3-4), and that has yet to fully manifest itself, as in Matt. 24 (noting too Zech. 13:8-9). The Gentile Church too must be looking here, though as we speak the Gentile Church is itself falling in apostasy!
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Carrie, mourn for this as one in the crowd of the cross if you must. I think there is a place for this. However, rejoice and speak evil of no one. That is what I am trying to do.
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Bono wrote the song. BB sang it with him. Great song.
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2
“I was there when they crucified my Lord
I held the scabbard at the soldier drew his sword
I threw the dice as the pierced his side
But I have seen love conquer the great divide.”
Preach it Bono!
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[...] C. Michael Patton has a post discussing the sovereignty of God in the election. [...]
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May I add a thought that occurred to me this morning after reading the headlines, “The sun has still arisen. The Son has still arisen.”
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I respect your respect for those in authority and your decision to let what you believe about God affect what you think and feel and how you speak and act.
I have a feeling the God’s will for the USA – and the USA’s future – will not be riding so much on the elections as it does upon the participation of the church in the purposes of God.
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I am not a supporter of either candidate. Last night before I went to bed the implications of passages like Titus 3:1-2 and Romans 13:1-7 came to mind. Specifically, how far are we, as Christians, to take these instructions by Paul?
Michael, in your 4th paragraph, you took the severity of the situation to an extreme to make your point. Let me take it one step further. Are we to submit to authorities like Hitler, Stalin, or for the sake of argument, if the anti-Christ himself comes to power in your own country? Is it rebellion against God’s sovereign choice if we plot the assassination or downfall of such authorities?
I would appreciate if anyone who has read Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s works share Bonhoeffer’s thoughts on this particular issue.
Let me be very clear I am NOT comparing Obama to the anti-Christ or Hitler.
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Gold,
No. We have a very interesting situation in America. Yes, we are to submit to governing authorities so long as they don’t call on us to violate our faith. However, in America, the constitution is above all things. And the constitution has a built in mandate for the people to protect the constitution when the government abuses it. That is why we have the right to bear arms. In one sense, there is a mandate to rebel against authorities when they become corrupt. The law is king (lex rex), not the government or even any court which interprets it. It is not unlike sola scriptura…we respect the authorities in history or in our church, but we may have to rebel against it from time to time.
I have often wondered in the murder of the unborn has yet to cross the line.
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I see. Two follow-up questions.
1. According to your position, then it seems the line (when our faith is violated) is somewhat subjective. What is wrong then, if a Christian refuses to pay federal taxes today, citing Roe vs Wade as the reason?
2. Titus 3:1-2 and Romans 13:1-7 were written during the time of Roman persecution of the early church. The Roman authorities were demanding the early Christians to violate their faith. According to your position, the early church would have the right to overthrow the Romans. Yet Paul seemed to be unequivocal about Christian submission to the Roman authorities. How do you reconcile this?
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Good stuff.
1. I don’t know. Hard question. I have often wonder what the line is as well and I do believe it is getting close.
2. The roman gov was not a democracy which demanded civil participation and checks and balances.
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Michael, what you wrote resonated with me. Last night, I will admit that I felt very anxious. And then I remembered Phil. 4:6-7 – and I started praying. I still needed to take a sleeping pill, but this morning I woke up an hour early… and suddenly felt almost giddy. Thanks for sharing this. Even though I am almost certain that you might rend your garment, rather than rent it.
For His glory!
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Thanks so much. I am glad it helped. And you know, in today’s economy, renting is better than selling. So I will just rent.
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>Pray for my president that God elected tonight. I commit to loving and encouraging him. I will speak no ill-will of him. He is the man God elected …
God elected Ramesses II, too. Try to imagine an Israelite slave in Egypt calling him “my pharaoh” or committing to “encourage him”. Does God’s sovereignty make such language appropriate?
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I think the Titus passage above sums it up pretty well.
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Obama stole this election. Plain and simple. So, how in the world can you say that GOD picked him. I would argue that Satan was able to use his believers to deliver this election to his henchman. I do believe that all that is happening has been foretold by God, but I can’t subscribe to the notion that he would allow this evil man to rule his people.
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Hi Micheal, I have great respect for you as I have owned your THEOLOGY PROGRAM for about 5 years, have taken the course 5 times on my own and am going through it with my church family at this time,, but I have to take issue with you that God elected anyone. Please explain something to me.
If God does the electing – why do we even vote? Also scriptures says God appoints rulers, not elects presidents. And when God was in the appointing business,, was that not in a time before democratic republics and people voting?
And also are we Christians supposed to follow Titus 3:1-2 even when the authorities and laws are out-right anti-biblical, down-right sinful and epically anti-Christ?
I know you know hermeneutics and wonder why I only see Titus 3:1-2 in your article rather than a sound exegesis of the whole word of God rightly divided concerning a Christians duty to follow rulers and laws.
I’m not jumping on you brother,,, but do you know about the Occult Agenda – and Islams role in that? I see your post here as helping maintain Christians in a lackadaisical everything is good state of mind when they should be fighting against evil with all their hearts and preparing for the worst, and even to faithfully give their heads if need be?
I have many in my circle that are looking at me for a sense of what to do at this time,, so would you please answer my questions and engage me about this so I might can determine what to tell them?
THANKS BROTHER,
Damon Whitsell
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God is certainly sovereign, but he didn’t elect Obama. AMERICANS elected Obama. Lord have mercy.
About contraception mentioned above:
I think Protestants don’t think twice about this, because it is so common and because the damage is not so tangible as in abortion. Protestant churches, though, also called it sinful until the Anglicans allowed it in certain circumstances only less than a hundred years ago. Research it.
What you think Catholic organizations should do now?? Tough decisions are coming.
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2
Well, as I said before, the party that caters to the poor has always being the Democrats. The Reps do make more noise (specially when they fall) about how moral they are, how righteous their agendas are etc. Most of my family (Cuban descendants) are blind by two issues. 1-The past troubles Castro had with Republicans and 2- The so called alignment with Christian values. I could write a book about the first one but here I am going to voice what I’ve seen in 30 years of public service.
Every time a Republican was in the White House my clients, the poor and the mentally ill (both indigent groups) suffered. There was less and I mean a lot less aid for them and the programs so hard won by previous administrations threatened! Why? Because the rich got away with paying less tax and of course in order to make that possible less taxes were taken in general to the rest of us, God forbids if we dare take less taxes from the poor and keep them relative moderate for the rich, no that would be unfair to the rich!
This is one example: In November 1999, California had plenty of electrical power and a surplus of 24 Billion dollars. As soon as the Reps were in power (Feb 2000) California started having trouble keeping the power going, why?
Well, Busch and company (rich CEO’s owners of power plants that supplied electricity to Ca. were given the green light (Regulations) to charge 285 dollars per kilowatt hours instead of the democratic regulated 35 dollar per hour. Since the federal regulations between states were lifted by this Rep administration, the 24 billion dollar surplus went straight to the pockets of the rich. California couldn’t pass on to the population that type of hike and Davis got unjustly blamed for it,and here comes a Rep to the rescue, not really the damage to the treasure of the state was done and who profit were the rich, only! As Christians we have to ask ourselves, is that moral? Christ told us a lot about the rich, and worked with the poor…
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Also Micheal, since you infer Idolatry against those who don’t see it like you do,, please give me your best effort to convince me of your position using scripture – because anything starting off with an adhom fallacy is hard to recover from with me. If your position indeed biblical, why did you go there?
And I guess a little on what you actually think idolatry is would be good too. You must be aware that liberal Christians have been saying that a vote for Romney was a vote for Mormonism and to “love country” is idolatry. So please give it your best shot explaining your view of idolatry also.
As you might guess I see end times as Armenians view predestination, that Gods uses his foreknowledge to look down the barrel of time to determine when the end of the age will come based on how well or not we resist Satan and his efforts to establish a one world order. It is my belief that since the tower of Babble, Satan has been trying to do it again but God did not allow it and now it is in some sense up to us depending on how the worlds democracies vote and live out the gospel. Am I wrong there?
THANKS AGAIN
Damon Whitsell
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From my Facebook note: “I just about had enough with these Christians advocating politics”–I am on a roll here…a continuation from my note here:
We should also realize that we ought to follow our savior’s example and bring help, health and salvation to the mayority in need, us who are not rich. The root of all evil is the love of money and when you see multi-billioneairs ranting about their loses (higher taxes probably) you have to wonder if that is not exactly what Christ was saying. If we analize what the ideology of both parties is, we ought to align our selves with the one that helps the poor the most, that the Christian way. From the miracles He performed, to the parable of the good Samaritan to His sacrifice at the cross, Christianity is all but getting richer or havings prosperity. The act of not condenming the woman for her life style is an example for us to act on behalf of our beliefs and make them known to the world , not hide behind a few verses to condenmed social trends no one particular administration can do much about it (because is outside their jurisdiction, the courts decide most of that stuff).
Here are the main social trends Reps hide behind; 1-Gay marriage, 2-Abortion. That’s it! I hear on and on Christians defending the moral character of the Reps based on two issues only! Are they blind? First those social trends are individual choices that they (the individual) is ultimate responsible for,to God. That my whole neighboorhood is composed of gay households do not affect my salvation in the slighlest. That this neirboorhhod commits abortions left and right does not either. But aligning myself with the inmoral act (omision is a sin) of not helping the poor when you ought to, is a social condition that affect us all. If I have not done my soul serching mandate to helping others I maybe be like one of those who did not help the
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poor and indigent at the side of the road. It may take not a “spiritual expert” to come to the aid of the poor , indigent and marginalized “neighboor”. I rather think those are just counting the income in their bank accounts. But as I see it, it takes a “Samaritan” someone outside our “brothers and sisters” to come to the aid of this person, this Samaritan has a name and it is called the Democratic party, because the Reps are those righteos than thou, cuoting verses without meaning,who ignore the spirit of the good Samaritan.Second, those two issues are not made to go away by the ones who talk against them! In reality the people is who determine the outcome of those issues. For example California, a traditional democratic state, has been one of the most difficult states for these two issues to become law. The gay issue is still in dispute whereas other more “fundamental” states have already made it into law. The same with the abortion issue, most of the fight has to do with preserving the life of the mother, something reps did not even want to address. The church instead of hiding on this issue should teach the church first, and then anounce it to secular US that we believe it is wrong because we believe in Traducianism and not an insertion of a soul into the product of conception. They hide real good, why isn’t any of them condeming sperm banks, invitro-fertilizations and embryonic storage? Why? Because they don’t know what they are talking about, they have an agenda towards getting rich at the expense of the poor. They preach free enterprise so they can employ more citizens…yes in China, where their proffits are maximize! See the hypocrisy?
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This one party has used our Scriptures and two issues to hide what could be called the “greatest of all evil” the love of money which is what we see in the rich here in USA! Their inmorality has no end, they rather not help the poor, middle class or anyone who is not like them, rich at the expense of the poor! I believe that it is a grater inmorality and sin to align ourselves with the evil doers than to help those in need even if they are sinners. By hiding away in Scripture and two issues and aligning yourself with the pro rich party, you are partaken in their evil deeds!
God bless you and God Bles America!
Tio Papo
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What? Me worry?
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26% of the total vote cast for the President came from evangelical Christians (over 6 million voters). Read that sentence again. Millions of Christian Americans knew their President was radically pro-abortion and pro-same sex marriage, with a thinly veiled hatred of Israel, and they still walked in the voting booth and cast their personal votes in favor of the proponent of these anti-Biblical positions.
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Reading through a number of these comments, my general reaction is “wow – where does one start to address all the misconceptions.”
It is clear to me that few if any here have read the classic reformed expositions on God’s third ordained institution for man – civil government, especially with regard to how Christians are to view and act toward it. If there is any single passage I would refer people to, it would be a thorough study of Psalm 2.
There have been dozens – yes, dozens – of reformed works from around 1550 to around 1920 dealing with the scriptural view of the State. Works started diminishing after 1920 as evangelicals slipped more and more into pietism and left the God-ordained institution of government to the wicked. Hence what has happened over the last 100 years or so should be no surprise.
Without going into detail that could take literally hours, a vast majority of reformers have held to the belief that the civil government (magistrate) should be a Christian theocracy. It wasn’t until the late 18th century that this belief started to fall into disrepute, and then essentially disappeared by the early 20th century while dispensational premillenialism ascended to prominence. After all, if Jesus was going to rapture us out any moment, why bother? So Christians abandoned politics, especially after the Scopes trial, as all seemed lost to them.
A lot of fundamental beliefs about government held by evangelicals will have to change if there is any hope for true transformation to occur – that yes, even the Gospel can change civil governments.
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THANKS for your comment Randy Harris – I will add some more of mine when I get a chance to. THANKS BROTHER
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You can respect the outcome , have confidence God is absolutely sovereign but what about calling this administration to repent of ungodly practices and promotion of the evil of abortion. I’m a Canadian and I have seen my country fall into complete evil with the promotion of homosexuality and the continued genocide of unborn babies. You can respect the President or Prime Minister but what about the need to call them out , to repent . Neither of our respected leaders show any fruit that they are truly believers. Jesus said you can tell if a person is a believer by their fruit . In both our respective countries we have leaders who have not done one thing to stem the tide of the culture of death of the unborn . Both have overseen the continued normalization of homosexuality . As Christians , I agree we are called to live under those God has called to be over us , but that should never stop us from calling them to turn from evil and repent . Plus cannot God also allow leaders to take control and remain in control as a judgement against a country and people . Perhaps even to stir the Church as well to stand and be counted .
In the west we have had it so good for so long , the Church has fallen asleep. Maybe its time for us to understand that those who will stand with Christ there will be a cost . With both our Countries moving more hostile towards the truth , that time could be here sooner than we think.
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Hi there, good post, and so true.
I’d like to ask a sincere question, which I admit is a side issue to what the post is saying, but it’s something I’ve wondered for a while and I’d really like to get people’s opinions about it:
What is so bad about Obama’s healthcare reform? Is it particularly how he did it or is it cheaper healthcare in general that is the issue? Why?
I’m sincerely curious about why people are upset about it.
Thanks!
Saskia
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Hi Saskia,
Obama’s healthcare plan is bad for so many reasons, both economic and ethical. The economic issues are negotiable since they are not absolutely right or wrong. The ethical issues, however, are a different story because they are non-negotiable….they are clearly and absolutely wrong.
A few of the ethical issues are:
–forced purchase of abortifacients and abortions
–forced payment for contraception and sterilization (granted, not all Christians recognize the immorality of contraception, but people should recognize the government’s imposition against long held, traditional religious beliefs. It’s a freedom of religion issue. )
That’s an extremely short summary, but I hope that helps a little.
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[...] Michael Patton writes about the common response of Christians and how God’s will was done in this [...]
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I appreciate you optimism but this statement in your essay flies in the face of reality.
“I live in the most secure, free, and moral country that has probably ever existed. And we are a long way from giving up this title. Are we heading toward a “fall”? Maybe, but we are still a long way from the cliff. In fact, it is not even in sight yet”
Americans, don’t believe that we are a long way from the cliff, we just went over it. Furthermore, just because Rome brutalized the people of it’s empire doesnt mean we have to accept tryranny when it invades our government. GOD LOVES FREEDOM so that His people are free to choose Him. That is why He blessed this country for so long. I firmly believe that His hand of protection is, or will soon, be lifted from America as a nation. He will never abandon us, His people, but the first America is gone and we should mourn her passing and pray that we can use His Word to change the hearts and minds of Americans so that maybe, just maybe we can salvage the wreckage and put America back together again.
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Hi Irene,
I agree that coverage for abortion and contraception should not be forced on the employer, lest they be an unwitting accomplice to said act. I would rather see the option of having employer pay the employee extra so these options may be purchased at the individual’s discretion. As for those who do not want the coverage but nonetheless are given them, they always have the option of not using them, don’t they?
However, the benefit of extending coverage to more Americans is an important one, providing real benefits to real people, and as such ought not be disregarded because of the evils of forced coverage.
ps. I am just wondering, do you, based on your religious view, deny your child’s HPV vaccine, since HPV is a STI?
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Please read this and educate yourself…GOD didn’t do this, WE THE PEOPLE DID.
http://jillology101.wordpress.com/2012/10/04/god-elected-obama-and-other-lies-that-christians-tell/
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Hello Francis,
You said,
“However, the benefit of extending coverage to more Americans is an important one, providing real benefits to real people, and as such ought not be disregarded because of the evils of forced coverage.”
The maddening thing is that Obamacare doesn’t have to be scrapped in order to resolve the religious freedom issue. The exemption from the “contraception mandate” just needs to be modified so that religious employers would actually qualify, as I believe has been the case in some state mandates. As it stands, only actual churches (as in church buildings, not including their associated schools, etc.) are exempted. In other words, the church secretary. But employers such as EWTN and Priests for Life which are religious but not technically a “church” are not exempted. Also, employers who do not run religious organizations but have religious convictions, are caught up in this…for example, Hobby Lobby, a Protestant family-owned company, has a lawsuit going.
About the ACA as a whole– the U.S. Catholic bishops were in FAVOR of the law…they just had been led to believe that they were going to receive the proper exemptions for abortion, contraception, and sterilization. So the issue for the Catholic Church is not whether there should be universal and/or single payer coverage. The issue is a proper exemption for freedom of conscience.
It’s crazy (and very telling!) how worked up people get about having free contraception, while overlooking other things, isn’t it? (What about free insulin for diabetic children? What about free prosthetics for veterans?) But no, sex-crazed Americans insist on the right to free sex without consequences. Unbelievable.
Not directing my frustration at you, Francis. I just can’t believe we are at this point.
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So God elected Bama and not the uninformed who wanted Santa Claus and mostly reject the Godhead via our Biblical understanding? God wanted Hitler, Stalin and Mao to win out too ,huh? And God wanted an America that rejected His values, heritage, and history that aided in the founding of the USA, huh? And we are all excited that America is plunging toward Greece or the Chad??? Huh? And God wants another nation to become a one party tyranny as over 140 plus nations are right now, huh? And to what purpose? Bankruptcy? Class and race war? Perhaps the Second Coming?? The Great Day of the Lord?? So Americans elected the end of A City on the Hill, huh?? And you are excited???? Hmmm. I suspect you are very historically illiterate. And I wonder in your optimism if you have read Mt. 13 lately???? Bad seed??? And you are just overjoyed that you believe God intervened so pro-abortion, pro-gay, pro-secular humanist, pro-immoral over taxing, spending and regs huh?? And of course, for the legalization of pot, and why not opium??? Gee, God just loves to see His own standards crumble, huh? In your scenario, the Judeo-Christian worldview just compromises with joy and excitement huh???? And God wants personal liberties to just be ignored and be excited ? Hmmm.
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“This one party has used our Scriptures and two issues to hide what could be called the “greatest of all evil” the love of money which is what we see in the rich here in USA! Their inmorality has no end, they rather not help the poor, middle class or anyone who is not like them, rich at the expense of the poor! I believe that it is a grater inmorality and sin to align ourselves with the evil doers than to help those in need even if they are sinners. By hiding away in Scripture and two issues and aligning yourself with the pro rich party, you are partaken in their evil deeds!
God bless you and God Bles America!
Tio Papo”
Dear Mr. Papo,
Please answer a couple questions. Why is it considered “greed” to want to keep the money you have earned (and dispense as you see fit), but not greed (and envy) to forcefully take someone else’s money to redistribute it to the poor (through a vastly inefficient government bureaucracy)? And why do you assume that because we disagree with your political solutions, that means we don’t care about the people you claim to want to help? Are you so arrogant to believe that your way can be the ONLY way?
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I read the article and all the comments and the conclusion I came to was that, I don’t recognise the Christianity being portrayed here. There is a sense of entitlement that comes across and none of the grace that the bible talks about.
There is an underlying hatred of the sinner rather than the sin and the more I read not only here but elsewhere before and after the elections, the more that comes across. I guess, being British, I can stand back and look at things more objectively but I believe, as Christians, there’s only one way to look at it and that is through the eyes of Jesus.
When the bible says in 2Chronicles 7:14, “if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land”, God was talking to us His people. We have to humble ourselves! Humility is one thing that I have not seen a lot of when I look at our brothers across the pond. None of us are perfect. From what I read, people think Obama is not a Christian for various reasons best known to themselves. You all forget that one person, unless he’s a dictator, does not make the laws of an entire nation. One person may come up with an idea but there is input from a lot more others and then there’s a vote to pass the law.
People still have choices and bombing abortion clinics and vilifying abortion doctors and gays doesn’t make you right or more of a Christian.
The thing is, we are in the last days and rather than hating and spreading hate for others different from ourselves and trying to justify it with the bible, does not fall into God’s agenda. God’s message is reach out to the lost. If you think your president is lost, why don’t you pray for him and the others in love (Christ’s way), rather than cast insinuations and condemn him.
“Let him who is without sin…”
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C M Pattons relply to Gold was…golden
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@Donnie for #45:
LOL
@Tio Papo for many posts:
I am responding as a proponent of free market policies. I am not a supporter of the GOP. E.g. I do not support any law that will restrict/prevent homosexuals from getting married.
You hold to several misconceptions about the free market system. Your main criticism is that Christians who support free market do not care about the poor. However, most Christians who support free market do so PRECISELY BECAUSE they think it is the best system to help the poor and that the alternative, socialism, is unfair.
Which system glorifies God more?
A system that asks government to take, without consent, a large portion of the income of the rich (even if they earned it morally, legally and with blood, sweat and tears) so as to give to the poor? Or a system that promotes entrepreneurship (thus providing jobs to the poor), VOLUNTARY charity, and encourages the poor to work?
Just because 51% or so of the country gave support, doesn’t mean it is now morally OK for the government to just take more money from the rich without their consent. Would you be okay if one day 51% of the population votes for a government that takes away cars from households they deemed to already have too many cars and give them to the poor?
A misconception you have is that the rich pays less taxes than the middle class. That is untrue both in terms of amount of dollars and % of taxable income. The U.S. tax system is already progressive. No one from the GOP is arguing that the rich should pay LESS than the middle class, both in terms of amount of dollars and % of income. People are questioning whether the rich should pay more than they already do.
I recommend that you read Paul Copan’s post:
http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2012/11/the-poor-and-free-markets/
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@Saskia for #40:
I am not extremely upset about Obamacare (PPACA). Just very disappointed. Here are some reasons why:
1. Obama claimed that the PPACA will reduce costs in the long run. It is blatantly wrong. Even the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says it will cost $1.76 TRILLION over a decade. I do not like how PPACA was promoted to the public as “cost saving”. It insults our intelligence essentially. How can coverage of more people cost less??
2. In a time when the federal debt is increasing and when it is almost impossible to get Congress to cut spending, why use all of your political capital on something that will INCREASE spending AND add to the debt? On the good side, it shows that Obama really does care about the poor since he is willing to spend all his political capital on this. However, it also shows his lack of wisdom and fundamental lack of understanding of how serious the federal debt issue is. He had the chance to show leadership by solving the debt crisis, but instead, he goes ahead and make the crisis WORSE.
3. Healthcare costs are rising at 7%, more than 3 times the normal inflation rate. PPACA will worsen this. Expect your premiums and copays to rise significantly in the coming decade.
4. The PPACA is almost 1000 pages in length. Have you read it? I have read parts of it. It is so full of hidden privileges for special interest groups that TWO AND HALF years since it was passed, legal experts are STILL finding out surprises that will increase healthcare costs. Companies are hiring TEAMS of legal experts just to read the bill. While waiting for these experts to figure out what the bill says, companies are forced to hold off on hiring. Unemployment rate is already bad enough.
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Hey Gold,
Thanks for your reply. I haven’t read it, which is partly why I was asking!
My personal opinion is that when there is a national debt health should be one of the last things to go. If Australia didn’t have a great public health care system I would be in so much strife whenever I needed the doctor. It’s expensive.
But once again, thank you for answering. I don’t live there so I can’t exactly make a judgement on what is good or bad for America. My experience in Australia may not apply there.
Saskia
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God will judge/punish/allow calamity when He needs to. He prefers that nations repent instead. The world is further trending away from God with the passage of time. They sneer at the Bible from the very first verse. They don’t acknowlege Him as the creator so “who is he to tell us what to do?”. Let’s rejoice that He is in ultimate control, but let us not deceive ourselves thinking that Obama is God’s choice because he is the more righteous or the “more Christian”. God has given America what America wants and deserves(Obama). All great empires end. Financial collapse is certain. Don’t bury your head in the sand thinking that your empire is unbreakable, like so many have in world history. Hosea and Jeremiah were ignored and persecuted when they tried to warn the people but Israel’s Northern and Southern kingdom were still destroyed. Prepare yourself and your loved ones. Turn back to the Lord.
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Personally right now I feel like a liar for ever telling people that God was good because a good God would not have chosen Barack Hussein Obama (almost sounds like Osama) as our President. My faith is in pieces and I’m about to throw those pieces away. I feel nothing but hatred and contempt for anyone who voted for him. I will never pray for him because that would involve in talking to the God who sold us out..clearly God hates America and he’s trying to destroy us all. I don’t talk to people who want to see everything I care about destroyed. So no praying of any kind will be occuring anytime soon. Sorry but there’s nothing good that will come out of this election..in fact only thing left to do now is to wonder when Obama’s gonna send the goons to round us up to kill us all.
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Hey Jonathon,
I would entreat you not to give up on your faith just because of an election. Think of all those courageous witnesses who endured the political system of their time in Rome, who still do endure in places like China, Yemen and Afghanistan. They trusted God not because of the ephemeral political structures of their day, but because of Jesus Christ crucified, because they knew that Christ had suffered for and with them.
Remember that this world is not our true home. Our citizenship is in heaven and our true allegiance is to that heavenly kingdom where Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us.
Remember too the struggles of Job, who faced destruction of all he owned, all he loved, even attacks on his own body – everything short of death itself – and he kept on trusting in God. God eventually rewarded him for that trust.
Trust that “all things work together for the good of those who love God”. Even if America and you personally are going through a hard time right now, God CAN and WILL use it to make you more like His son Jesus, so that at length you may claim a heavenly crown.
Although I may disagree with your assessment of the political situation, you are my brother in Jesus, and I urge you not to throw away that faith which he has given you. God is good, and He is mighty. The heavens and the earth can fit in the palm of his hand. All things that are in heaven or on the earth or under the earth are His.
Do not be discouraged, but pray that God will give you hope and peace; continue striving after Him and persevere.
Many blessings,
Saskia
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Chaplet of Divine Mercy Anyone??
‘Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us
and on the whole world’……
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To Who It May Concern,
It saddens me to read most of the blog posts’ negative comments about being or becoming rebellious towards the POTUS. I believe it is more racial than religious. Other than the social issues he supports, what has he done ill-will to the country? I’m a God-fearing Christian and I truly believe President Obama was elected because God willed it so. Let me remind you that the president is a constitutuion scholar; he is a rights enforcer. We live in a democracy–not a theocracy (although I prefer living in a theocray). And before closing, let me say that America has always been a secular country, despite its constitution being written from spiritual inspiration. So all this talk about old values and what used to be, frankly, I don’t want to go back to the days when America was an exclusionary country. And I wish you guys would stop sounding like gloom casters. God is in control. God has inspired the world with the reelection of Obama. Just look and listen to all the people from around the world. As American Christians, please stop the racial hate and embrace our gifted leader with love and respect. Thank you very much.
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“I’m a God-fearing Christian and I truly believe President Obama was elected because God willed it so.”
Dear Peter,
You are right that Obama is President because God willed it, but I fear not for the reason’s you believe. America is already experiencing God’s divine judgement for turning its collective back on Him. The re-election of Obama and the disturbing worship of the man which you exhibit (the world is “inspired”?) is just the strong delusion that is spoken of by Paul in Thessalonians.
And it is beyond offensive that your blind worship of this man leads you to play the race card. Pathetic really. Obama is the most radical pro-infanticide supporter that has ever occupied the Oval Office. He doesn’t even say that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare anymore. And of course there is his support of gay “marriage” (an oxymoron), which as an alleged God-fearing Christian, you must know that God finds an abomination. These are just a couple reasons (among many) that cause great consternation amongst those of us who take God’s word at face value regarding Obama’s policies.
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If anything Obama is Satan. Godly people do not lie and make up stories. They accept responsibility and explain. Why is there so much sin in his inner circle? Secret service and prostitiutes? Bengazi lies? Patreaus? Yet, he didn’t know a thing about any of these incidents? You people can believe what you want. I believe that if God put him there, it wasn’t because Obama is a good person. It was to usher in his plan. Lets face it, the world needs to be reborn. There’s way too much envy, greed, corruption, sloth, you name it!
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Dear Peter,
Your comments are racist and hateful to the core. Christians despise the President because of his Marxist ideology and because he is the most corrupt President in U.S. history. It has nothing to do with his skin color and you know it. I don’t believe you are really a Christian and futhermore I believe you have literally been brain-washed by the mainstream media. Turn it off Peter and start reading your Bible. You have been deceived and you are in need of constant prayer. This President’s administration is infested with God-less sodomites who will replace our free-market economy with a centrally planned socialist economny. We will lose many of our liberties over the next four years and you are too blind to see it. In the course of all of human history, nothing is more rare than freedom. God loves freedom Peter, it’s why He has blessed this nation for so long. Freedom allows His people to choose His path, or the path of evil. You are on the wrong path Peter. I will pray for you and your family daily that He will free you from this un-Godly curse.
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Wow, just wow! People who can’t see through their hatred of one man to allow the sunshine of God’s love to penetrate are truly in need of prayers.
Just to put this is context: Christ lived in a country occupied by a foreign power known for its brutal suppression. If that was not enough, the local religious authorities seem to have been just as bad.
Yet, in the Gospels were are instructed to respect authority and give them their due. Does that mean we cannot criticize leaders? Certainly not. But the despair and barely concealed contempt that abounds (not just here) goes way beyond criticism.
It is not beyond the power of God’s love to bring to salvation the very objects of this contempt, while the contemptuous find themselves standing outside the feast with their empty lamps. We should all take heed to our souls.
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….brood of vipers…..whitewashed tombs……Jesus called it like he saw it.
I would welcome and love to see a change of heart from Obama. In the meantime, I will follow Jesus’ example and call evil evil.
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Marvin,
Greed I take it as the “love of money”. The wanting more and more of it without regard how you get it as long as you have more. If you want money and gain it through exploiting others is simply greed, you just don’t care how you get it. The “distributing” of most rich people are just tax deductions , which makes them even more of it. In my opinion if you cal yourself a Christian you need to be careful about how you administer that money. After all, what did Jesus tell the rich young man? “Go give it to the poor”. So if from our own saviors lips there is virtue in helping (notice Jesus didn’t specify who was the poor and how we should give it) in the “go and give your wealth to the poor”, why would we align ourselves with the one party that caters to the rich and I mean everything they do is going to hep the rich in the not giving it to the poor. The examples are just too many: They say we need less taxes so we employ more Americans, yet they take their manufactories to foreign lands because labor is cheaper! And this is important: When did it become a loss for anyone the fact that they are not making more than their competitor? See the greed? I mean you have to be blind not to see it.
And sorry I am not saying you don’t want to help, because as Christians you should, it comes with the territory. What I am criticizing is the fact that you have been brainwashed to thing just because a party brings up two issues and a cpiple of verses they are “more Christians” or align more with Christian values that the one which has more of a record in helping the poor. Appearanty the rich man had more evil in him than the harlot because at least she believed. DOn’t be blind by prosperity and our lifestyle, the rich has a harsh, harden heart when it comes to help the poor. They look down on everyone and blade the victim for being in a tough life.
Working 30 years in public service made me see the reality of their policies. Like the example with the power…
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Tiopapo,
Your rambling screed is simply full of caricatures and straw men about the Republican party, not to mention that you didn’t really address my initial questions. Though you did demonstrate your arrogance again, in spades this time. So I am brainwashed because the Republican party believes in traditional Judeo-Christian values regarding the sanctity of life and traditional marriage?
Let me ask you this, the left’s “war on poverty” began back in the 60′s with Lyndon Johnson’s “Great Society” initiatives (Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, etc). Tell me, just how has the left’s method of dealing with the problem of poverty succeeded in actually reducing poverty? Don’t bother answering. Given that a staggering 50 million American’s currently live in poverty tells me that as much as your side claims to want to help the poor, your methods of doing so do not work, at all.
At the end of the day, I can make arguments that free market solutions (which is what the Republican party actually stand for, not your silly caricatures) are the most effective way to deal with the problem of poverty. And I do not have to ignore emphatic statements in scripture to support them. You on the other hand have to casually dismiss the embracing of homosexuality (an abomination to the Lord) and the wholesale infanticide of unwanted babies for the sake of convenience in order to lend your support to a party that does NOT want to even acknowledge that we are one nation under God as a part of it’s official party platform.
Oh but that is all good because, well you know, helping the poor and all that.
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