Dan,

My question for you is:

If all you have is a King James Bible (no greek MSS or other versions) would you have ALL that God requires of you to know how to be saved…. Know how to please God….Know how to be in right relationship with God (both soterioloigcally and sanctification)

In other words if we are to live by EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH GOD…. is that possible with a King James Bible?

If not why?
If not what text, MSS or version would i need to have all that is necessary for the things above?

Thanks,

Jeff

[...] a post entitled “Is the Bible that big of a mystery,” Dan Wallace explores the tension between the necessity of learning biblical languages and [...]

David, you speak words of wisdom. Thanks for sharing.

Dr. Wallace,

You say well,

“And those teachers have a sacred duty to explain the text in a way that the layperson can grasp. Further, they have a sacred duty to show laypeople how to study the Bible for themselves…”

The clarification on both sides as you propose is certainly needed within Christiandom. On the one hand, Biblical Languages and exegesis is an extremely important tool that one must humbly (not arrogantly) use to illuminate those instructed. On the other hand, lay believers should show an appreciation for what studying the original languages in ancient context can contibute in respect to furthering their understanding of what the Biblical Authors recorded in the context they recorded it in under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It’s like watching an HD color TV rather than just a 1950′s black and white TV.

I find in the Adult Sunday School class that I teach at my church that this is in fact the case. My students ask difficult questions and are very interested in how the Biblical Languages influence a passage in it’s ancient context. Mature Christians seem to be hungry for more and the way I’ve approached it is I consider my students smarter than me because they are if one listens to their questions. I would encourage everyone to treat their students as their own newborns and be thorough on explanation of why you are using what you’re using to make a case or point (whether theology, Greek/Hebrew words, or otherwise).

The teacher who puts himself above his students and waives either Theological Knowledge, Seminary Training or Biblical Language as some sort of superiority complex should voluntarily remove himself from teaching because when one reaches that arrogance, one is no longer a teacher and needs to be taught again. It’s not about us, it’s about the One God that exists as three persons in dynamic relationship.

BTW, your book, “Greek Grammar – Beyond the Basics” is text I thoroughly enjoy as a reference.

Shalom…

Rayner,

Perhaps a good passage that shows the necessary relationship between the Scriptures and the Spirit is Acts 18:24-28:

24 Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, competent in the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, [3] he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him and explained to him the way of God more accurately. 27 And when he wished to cross to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him. When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed, 28 for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, showing by the Scriptures that the Christ was Jesus.

Vladimir

Rayner,

Isn’t it both? Non-Christians, for instance, can read scripture and get nothing out of it, but we have the advantage of both as God’s people. That’s His gift, through His grace, not just our human knowledge. I think that’s the difference.

Cherylu,
II Tim 3:16-17 is usually brought out in this kind of discussion topic. Is Scripture (OT scripture by the way) the only thing St Paul himself relies on for instruction, guidance, etc.? I’m trying to make a point that more reliance on the scripture tends to mean less reliance on the Spirit’s guidance. The Spirit just guides indirectly by following what’s in scripture. I don’t believe that’s quite what Jesus intended when he left us his Spirit. But the church (sola scriptura in particular) seems to place scripture above all else. It’s more efficient to consult a text and read our instructions than to learn them for ourselves. That’s the way we do things in our culture, and I am a product of it too.

Sue has been banned if you are wondering why she is not commenting. Reason: Because her comments were always going to the egal/comp debate and were off track.

[...] a post entitled "Is the Bible that big of a mystery," Dan Wallace explores the tension between the necessity of learning biblical languages and the [...]

OK, I’ll bite one last time just to say this, and then I’m out until this topic comes up:

Well, of course, if you a priori set dates for the Gospels, you can then go on to reject that Paul is the author of 1 Timothy; but what you can’t do is say that Paul believes Q (oral or written) is Scripture in accord with Deuteronomy. That’s not what the text says. How can Paul consider any OT text Scripture when it was written in AD 1985? See how that bad reasoning works. We consider the evidence first and then conclude (very cautiously and in estimation only) the dates of these texts. As I said, however, most see what I am saying as a fact and conclude that 1 Timothy must not be written by Paul.

The consistency of Marcionism, of course, is to reject most of the NT along with the OT, since the NT incorporates and validates much of the OT text.

Second, gods in the ancient Near East are also said to love and save their followers. By your logic, you ought to reject the biblical God on that basis as well.

Finally, God kills people every day. He decides the lifespan of a person, and according to Jesus, a person cannot therefore add a single cubit to his lifespan. Does your god have nothing to do with human death? I’m taking it also that you are completely oblivious to the creation-chaos motif in Scripture that requires a good God to destroy chaotic agents in order to save His people. Maybe superficial theologies ought to hold off from accusing the Scripture and look at the four fingers pointed back at them.