This site has given me a lot tothink about. I was in Seminary 4 years ago, but had to withdraw do to martial concerns. But what I learned
from that experience is that when one get the call as some may say, it does not always mean that it will manifest at that time.

I feel as though G_D calls us at least for me to see if I would accept the call and not that it is meant to manifest at that time. It has been 4 years and I am now ready to return but only because I am being
nudge. I can not sleep at night, I am not satisfy with my job, it consumes my thoughts and it’s all that I desire to do.

I have no idea of how I will be use. I totally trust G_D. It is a journey.
And for me at this time an online Seminary would work best. Do I have concerns? yes. But I also trust G_D will lead to where I am suppose to go and regardless of how many credential one has behind there name, it is the Holy Spirit’s endorsement and approval that one must seek. This journey is not about one’s self.

This site has been helpful in provideing me with a lot of tools to assess the many, many, programs that are out there.

Blessings!

I don’t think the comparison to med school or flight training is really a good one. Not that pastoral ministry isn’t as critical—it’s even more important. But the comparison really stops there. Along with the necessary knowledge, surgeons and pilots are learning to perform tasks that are largely physical and involve specific methods, procedures, and a certain level of dexterity. This does not compare well with pastoral ministry. Even considering the practical aspects of ministry, seminaries have gotten better at addressing practical training, but many (most?) feel this is still not really a strength. Many seminary grads don’t really learn practical ministry skills until they go to work with a church (unless they work in ministry while they go to school). A better comparison might be attorneys; ironically, many attorneys receive their education through distance education.

Another big problem that I see with this comparison is that surgeons and pilots are both learning to do things that are completely foreign to the average person. But pastors are learning to do things more deeply, more intensively, more completely—but things that they probably were already doing to some extent (biblical interpretation, teaching, leading, spiritual formation, etc.). These are things that we expect and hope that all Christians will be doing in some ways. But we don’t expect people to be lay surgeons, and we don’t urge all citizens to learn to fly.

These comparisons seem compelling, but I don’t think they are really valid.

Let me ask a counter question, Tim. Imagine you knew that your surgeon finished 1st in his class at a brick and mortar med school, but you heard him talking to the nurse about how this was his first surgery outside med school. Would you be confident, or pass out with your eyes bugging out? Additionally, what if your airline pilot got his training at a brick and mortar flight school but this was his first real flight with passengers aside from training…would you be confident or scared?

Likewise, what about someone who is in their 40′s and who is already the pastor of a small church? Or what about someone who is already a deacon and SS teacher in a large church? Or who is on staff at a large church and has been in positions of leadership and service for years? What about someone who has first hand experience dealing personally with tough issues such as people in their flock getting divorced? Or dealing with a church member who struggles with homosexuality? Or confronting disputes between members who are ready to sue each other over a major financial disagreement? Or having experience personally ministering to widows or orphans or in hospital ministry? Or having had experience in dealing with people wanting benevolence assistance from the church?

Wouldn’t people who had those kind of experiences benefit from seminary education as well, even if most of the degree was online? Especially if the online degree they were pursuing was regionally and ATS accredited and required a certain amount of residence via week long block classes, extension education, or whatever? Sure they aren’t going to have the same experience as a 22-year-old who goes straight from college to a brick and mortar seminary experience. But likewise the 22-year-old doesn’t have the depth of experience to apply a lot of what they will learn in seminary to real life ministry either. Seems to me that even an online degree could greatly supplement existing ministry experience.

Great insights!

Let me bring up the saying, “Don’t ever tear down a fence until you first learn why it was built there in the first place.” My article and the one by Michael on this subject were responding to some thinking out there that online education is the natural progression of seminary training. A school which transitions from 100% on-site toward 100% online is only going to grow and prosper. We’re trying to add some reflection into this subject and say, “Just because we can, let’s pause and talk about if this is something we should do.”

Let me look at this differently. Imagine being on the operating table and just as the anesthesia is kicking in you hear the surgeons talking about how they got their degree completely online. Would you be confident, or pass out with your eyes bugging out? Additionally, what if you hear the airline pilot mention just before take-off that his training was 100% online…would you be confident or scared? I’m seeing an ideological fork in the road on this issue. Yes, this is an additional point not mentioned in my article, but I would say seminary training should be as critical as medical school or flight school. Since we’re dealing with eternal issues, you can make a strong case seminary training is more important than medical school.

Good discussion. Personally, having led and taught in a variety of settings including two seminaries and now serving as a graduate school dean, I am not convinced that a residential experience is necessarily the preferable method of theological and pastor development. I believe there are three types of students our seminaries must seek to serve and their needs differ.

1) Those who can and should physically attend and who have the resources and ability to do so. For these students, face-to-face seminary classroom experiences make sense. They have the ability to relocate, the time, the financial potential, and the free mobility to do so.

2) Those who can be physically present in a limited way. These students are less able to be engaged in face-to-face classroom experiences because they are already engaged in a ministry setting, or sensed God’s call later in life, or do not have the option of relocating. For these students, hybrid, cohort models are wonderful options. I have led these kinds of programs and have seen all of the benefits of the full residential program. In fact, I believe students are actually more engaged in their education and the application of that education. Based on 30 years of experience in Christian higher education, this is now my own preferred educational model if it’s spiritual formation, character development, and ministry effectiveness that are the primary measure of results.

3) Those who cannot be physically present. Frankly, the vast majority of Christians on this planet will never be in a position to avail themselves to a seminary education. Online opportunities provide those who are not able to become resident seminarians access to Christian higher education. Is online ever the best option? Well, yes, clearly so, if it is if it is the only option which it is for many.

Just as an aside. I still believe the best place for spiritual formation and character development is in connection with the local church, not the seminary.

Probably the earliest example of distance learning, more than 40 years ago, was the secular UK Open University. It combined distance lectures – which were transmitted on BBC TV overnight – with postal interaction with tutors (in more recent years by email), and real face-to-face residential summer schools.

So this model did provide, to a limited extent, face-to-face assessment of the sort that is being raised here.

Blessings

Tony

Tim,
I totally agree with your assessment here, and would, with you, highlight one particular aspect of the Seminary experience, at least at Dallas Seminary format that was so crucial in my experience, that being the mandated Spiritual Formation process. To be able to come together with others of like mind, and face to face work through issues in ministry and importantly life itself, pays rich dividends. There is no way in my opinion that a completely online experience can be fashioned to capture this “iron sharpening iron” experience. While online education is important and opens the possibility of educational development to so many, It does in my opinion, need to be supplemented with some sort of an “in house” experience. How that happens I do not know, but thats why God has gifted you and so many others like you, to work better “sharpen” the experience.
Blessings to you and the family.

For those who receive their master’s degree via distance learning (or online), there is one very helpful component to consider. That is having a requirement that each student must have a certain amount of residency weeks in which one course is completed over the one week.

I’m sure DTS does something like this, or maybe with a comment above, they only let you do part of your masters degree through distance learning. But I completed my MATS through Covenant Seminary in St. Louis. We had to complete at least 3 residency weeks, which consisted of 6 weeks preparation reading beforehand, the 1 week of class lectures and interaction, and 6 weeks of post-work on a specific project/paper. These residency weeks were a great opportunity to spend time with professors, spend time with other students in the distance learning programme, and utilise the resources on campus.

Actually, I absolutely loved spending time on campus. It made me really heavily consider once whether I should move to St. Louis (from Memphis at the time) and study on campus. But I knew God had me connected into where I needed to be. But the 3 residency weeks were brilliant. And there was opportunity for more each January and July.

And even with distance learning courses, we had people coming from Central America, one blind guy, and other such cases. So I think seminaries/universities should consider this as a very healthy component for those who must train online. Of course, it still doesn’t fully supplement if one studied on campus. But it was one of those bonus things.

Another quick thing: we had ‘mentors’ who would contact us every 4-6 weeks to talk about how the course is going, answer any questions, etc. Sometimes it felt unneeded or superficial. But, done right, it could be a great thing.

I’m in Bible College and after being a year on campus and then going online due to circumstances, I fully agree that traditional classes are much better than online. My experience is a bit different because the school I am enrolled in is a small school and I still have relationships with most of the campus and have actually been to visit and even take a J-term class.

Something my school does is a required internship with a church. I think this is necessary to apply what is learned.

Having worked in Student Services and seen many of these “character issues” on display among seminary students during the disciplinary/restoration process, there is no substitute for rubbing elbows with your fellow Christians in the context of ministry training and working out your character in a community setting. Online education is a supplement to traditional education, but in an ideal situation it should not be a replacement.

Great post, Timmy. Well said. Love ya bro. Hope you’re enjoying your new gig.

=MV=