I don’t think this view should both those evangelizing mormons, I am going to discuss Hebrews 1:1-2 with my mormon co-worker.

[...] Michael Patton (from Parchment and Pen) argues that the Christian canon is atleast theoretically open: In short, the argument that I am making is that the canon is closed only to the degree that God is no longer adding to it. But it is not closed in the sense that God cannot add to it were He to make an unforeseen movement in the history of revelation. The primary reason why we have not added anything to the canon in the last two-thousand years is simply because God has not used an authenticated apostle or prophet to speak His word and add to it in two-thousand years. Only in this sense is the canon “closed.” [...]

Re Bryan’s comment, “I don’t think anybody can read the Jewish scriptures, take a break at Malachi, and guess how it turns out. It’s a bigger twist than The Sixth Sense”

Exactly.

That’s what Paul meant when he talked of the “mystery” now revealed.

regards,
#John

Eric, I am so getting that book. Looks interesting!

This book, coming later this year, appears relevant to this topic as well as the other threads on the canon:

(from the link at: euangelizomai.blogspot.com/2010/02/sacred-text.html)

http://michaelpahl.googlepages.com/thesacredtext

Bird, Michael F., and Michael W. Pahl, eds. The Sacred Text: Excavating the Texts, Exploring the Interpretations, and Engaging the Theologies of the Christian Scriptures. Gorgias Précis Portfolios 7. Piscataway, N.J.: Gorgias, 2010.

•GorgiasPress.com (publisher’s page)

Description
The Sacred Text presents an overview of the formation, reception, and interpretation of the Christian Scriptures. It is written by contributors from diverse Christian traditions and covers an array of topics about historical and doctrinal matters pertaining to Scripture. The first section on “The History of the Texts” deals with the formation of the Christian canon, including the status of the Septuagint, the concept of Scripture in the second century, the role of tradition in creating and interpreting these ancient texts, and issues about canon and authority. The second section, “The Interpretation of the Texts,” looks at hermeneutical issues such the origins of modern biblical criticism, the current interest in theological exegesis, post-modern approaches to Scripture, and new methodologies relating to biblical interpretation such as feminist and post-colonial approaches. The final section on “The Theological Status of the Texts as Scripture” deals with how the texts are regarded as Scripture in various faith communities, including those of Catholic, Orthodox, and Evangelical traditions, and also by twentieth century theologians such as Karl Barth and Rudolf Bultmann. The Sacred Text is a solid introduction to questions of how the Scriptures came to be, how they should be read, and what they mean to different Christian communities.

Contents

•Introduction: From Manuscript to MP3 – Michael F. Bird

The History of the Texts
•The Septuagint as Scripture in the Early Church – Karen H. Jobes
•Scripture in the Second Century – Tomas Bokedal
•Scripture and Tradition: Seeking a Middle Path – Michael W. Pahl
•Scripture and Canon – John C. Poirier

The Interpretation of the Texts
•Scripture and Biblical Criticism – Jamie A. Grant
•Scripture and Theological Exegesis – Thorsten Moritz
•Scripture and Postmodern Epistemology – Robert Shillaker
•Scripture and New Interpretive Approaches: Feminist & Post-Colonial – Jennifer G. Bird

The Theological Status of the Texts as Scripture
•Catholic Doctrine on Scripture: Inspiration, Inerrancy, and Interpretation – Brant Pitre
•Scripture in Eastern Orthodoxy: Canon, Tradition, and Interpretation -George Kalantzis
•Still Sola Scriptura: An Evangelical Perspective on Scripture – James M. Hamilton Jr.
•The Word as Event: Barth and Bultmann on Scripture – David Congdon

Bryan,

I think Isaiah 53 fits in perfectly with an unfolding of the OT in the way it actaully turned out.

By the way, I agree with you 100% on what you said in this statement, “I’m simply wondering if beginning with an assumption such as yours won’t sometimes lead smart people to expand the canon in ways you and I think are bogus.”

CMP (I see people call you that, and I hope it’s ok). ,

With respect to the LDS, I think they have very much convinced themselves that Joseph Smith was a legit prophet. I disagree and you disagree, but they accept him. A similar thing has happened with the Jehovah’s Witnesses and their founder and his successors. I don’t accept that line of argumentation, but it is based on the claim that the canon might not be closed.

I’m Catholic, so I think the canon is closed because the Church has said it is closed. I’m simply wondering if beginning with an assumption such as yours won’t sometimes lead smart people to expand the canon in ways you and I think are bogus. It’s not obvious how we are to exclude things like Gospel of Thomas (which certified smart person Elaine Pagels likes a lot) and Book of Mormon (which certified smart people like Mitt Romney likes a lot).

___________

Derek,

You and I see the NT that way, but all that is a case of the early Church re-reading the OT and, in many cases, reading into these texts things that nobody ever though was justified previously. St. Paul surely understood what was going on with those Christians when he was helping kill them. Absent his encounter with the Risen Christ, it seems unlikely he ever would have accepted the Christian arguments about the right way to read the Jewish scriptures.

I would suggest that the Messiah getting nailed to a Roman cross is not at all the logical unfolding of the OT. The logical unfolding of the OT is a Messiah who shows up and turns Isreal into the global hegemon. I don’t think anybody can read the Jewish scriptures, take a break at Malachi, and guess how it turns out. It’s a bigger twist than The Sixth Sense

And if conflicts with previous revelation mattered even a little bit, none of us should be Christian.

What does this mean? That the Old and New Testaments contradict each other? If so, where do you see that?

Jesus is prophesied throughout the pages of the Old Testament. The New Testament is the logical unfolding of the Old.

Bryan, I don’t understand what you are saying since you are simply saying that some people could attempt to justify their prophet. Of course anyone can attempt to, but this does not mean they have.

Everything Joseph Smith did and saw was done in a corner. Mormon’s take it by faith. Such is not the case with the Apostles.

Either way, what is your proposition. Do you believe the canon is “closed” and if so, by what authority?

It simply isn’t true that the Book of Mormon can be excluded from canon because of “inability to authenticate Joseph Smith as a prophet and its contradiction with previous revelation.”

Sure, there isn’t proof sufficient for you (or for me, while we’re at it). But I know plenty of bright LDS who have come to the opposite conclusion. And if conflicts with previous revelation mattered even a little bit, none of us should be Christian.

I say: open the gates! It’s such a little step from “all you need is your Bible” to “all you need is your Bible.”