Comments on: The Great Trinity Debate Challenge http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/the-great-trinity-debate-challenge/ Making Theology Accessible Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:32:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Sam Clements http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/the-great-trinity-debate-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-28302 Sam Clements Tue, 09 Mar 2010 22:36:36 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3370#comment-28302 I may have missed one or two of the posts/comments/lines in this blog post but have both parties expressed their initial statement as to their belief as to what they understand the relationship of God Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be? Given that this debate is about the trinity, I think that it would be necessary to have a base-line to work from. I may have missed one or two of the posts/comments/lines in this blog post but have both parties expressed their initial statement as to their belief as to what they understand the relationship of God Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be? Given that this debate is about the trinity, I think that it would be necessary to have a base-line to work from.

]]> By: Dave Burke http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/the-great-trinity-debate-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-24801 Dave Burke Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:26:35 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3370#comment-24801 The following list comprises a collection of books and articles which accurately reflect my Christology. None of them were written by me. Where possible, I have provided hyperlinks to online versions of the books as well as the articles. _____________ The Racovian Catechism (1605) Polish Brethren: http://tinyurl.com/ygmo936 Lectures on the Principles of Unitarianism (1824) Hyndman, J S: http://tinyurl.com/yhjz46g The Doctrine of the Trinity: Analytically Examined and Refuted (1937) White, Percy: http://tinyurl.com/ybvsfut Wrested Scriptures (1964) Abel, Ron: http://tinyurl.com/ycodx2t What Are the First Principles? (1990) Booker, George: http://tinyurl.com/yb9j3br The Trinity: True or False? (1995) Broughton, James & Southgate, Peter: http://tinyurl.com/md3o3l The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound (1998) Buzzard, Anthony & Hunting, Charles Before He was Born (2007) Perry, Andrew The Restitution of Jesus Christ (2009) Zarley, Kermit "What do Biblical Unitarians Believe?": http://tinyurl.com/39qu8o "Who is Jesus Christ?": http://tinyurl.com/yg7e47w "Interpreting Jesus' Birth": http://tinyurl.com/y85gvqq "The Two Adams": http://tinyurl.com/yhvaglh The following list comprises a collection of books and articles which accurately reflect my Christology. None of them were written by me.

Where possible, I have provided hyperlinks to online versions of the books as well as the articles.

_____________

The Racovian Catechism (1605) Polish Brethren: http://tinyurl.com/ygmo936
Lectures on the Principles of Unitarianism (1824) Hyndman, J S: http://tinyurl.com/yhjz46g
The Doctrine of the Trinity: Analytically Examined and Refuted (1937) White, Percy: http://tinyurl.com/ybvsfut
Wrested Scriptures (1964) Abel, Ron: http://tinyurl.com/ycodx2t
What Are the First Principles? (1990) Booker, George: http://tinyurl.com/yb9j3br
The Trinity: True or False? (1995) Broughton, James & Southgate, Peter: http://tinyurl.com/md3o3l
The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity’s Self-Inflicted Wound (1998) Buzzard, Anthony & Hunting, Charles
Before He was Born (2007) Perry, Andrew
The Restitution of Jesus Christ (2009) Zarley, Kermit

“What do Biblical Unitarians Believe?”: http://tinyurl.com/39qu8o
“Who is Jesus Christ?”: http://tinyurl.com/yg7e47w
“Interpreting Jesus’ Birth”: http://tinyurl.com/y85gvqq
“The Two Adams”: http://tinyurl.com/yhvaglh

]]> By: Rob Bowman http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/the-great-trinity-debate-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-24786 Rob Bowman Tue, 02 Feb 2010 08:35:03 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3370#comment-24786 Dave Burke and I have agreed to a six-week debate that will begin April 11, 2010. We have also agreed to limit ourselves to 5,000 words each week instead of 10,000. I am going to post this message also as a new post, just to make sure everyone sees it. In that post I will also list the pro-Trinitarian works I recommend for the purposes of this debate. After Dave posts his recommended works, I will add his list to that new post so it will appear on equal footing with my list. Dave Burke and I have agreed to a six-week debate that will begin April 11, 2010. We have also agreed to limit ourselves to 5,000 words each week instead of 10,000.

I am going to post this message also as a new post, just to make sure everyone sees it. In that post I will also list the pro-Trinitarian works I recommend for the purposes of this debate. After Dave posts his recommended works, I will add his list to that new post so it will appear on equal footing with my list.

]]> By: Miriam http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/the-great-trinity-debate-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-24755 Miriam Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:54:08 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3370#comment-24755 Geoff - I'm not sure what you mean by "translated" in spirit/back into body. I wasn't aware trinitarians believe that? I am "atrinitarian" (as in the sense of "apolitical" ie: totally neutral about it) and I am neither trinitarian or non-trinitarian, since they are man-made doctrines. I wondered why it is necessary to define Christianity by debating two man-made doctrines which were essentially formed by reacting to each other. Is debating reactionary man-made doctrines profitable for godliness? Possibly. I guess there is only one way to find out! Geoff – I’m not sure what you mean by “translated” in spirit/back into body. I wasn’t aware trinitarians believe that?

I am “atrinitarian” (as in the sense of “apolitical” ie: totally neutral about it) and I am neither trinitarian or non-trinitarian, since they are man-made doctrines.

I wondered why it is necessary to define Christianity by debating two man-made doctrines which were essentially formed by reacting to each other. Is debating reactionary man-made doctrines profitable for godliness? Possibly. I guess there is only one way to find out!

]]> By: Geoff Wickham http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/the-great-trinity-debate-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-24427 Geoff Wickham Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:49:04 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3370#comment-24427 Miriam The profitableness is in our salvation from sin. - 1Co 15:17 "and if Christ hath not been raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." - if Christ didn't die (ie. he was tranlated directly into spirit) then neither was he raised from the dead (ie. he was translated back into his body) then 1Cor 15:17 applies. The fact that he did die (not translated into spirit) and was ressurrected from the dead (not translated back into his body) makes him the perfect sacrifice for our salvation from sin and gives us the hope of our still future restoration to a full relationship with our Father with Jesus as our "brother". - 1Co 15:28 "And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all." How much more do we need to know about death & ressurrection (both Christ's & our's) & the restored relationship with God that was lost in Eden, than what is written in 1Cor15? Rob & Dave Looking forward immensely to the debate guys. May it proceed to the glory of God & of his Son, our Lord Jesus, whose coming we await. Miriam
The profitableness is in our salvation from sin. –

1Co 15:17 “and if Christ hath not been raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.”
– if Christ didn’t die (ie. he was tranlated directly into spirit) then neither was he raised from the dead (ie. he was translated back into his body) then 1Cor 15:17 applies.

The fact that he did die (not translated into spirit) and was ressurrected from the dead (not translated back into his body) makes him the perfect sacrifice for our salvation from sin and gives us the hope of our still future restoration to a full relationship with our Father with Jesus as our “brother”. –
1Co 15:28 “And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.”

How much more do we need to know about death & ressurrection (both Christ’s & our’s) & the restored relationship with God that was lost in Eden, than what is written in 1Cor15?

Rob & Dave
Looking forward immensely to the debate guys. May it proceed to the glory of God & of his Son, our Lord Jesus, whose coming we await.

]]> By: Sandra H http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/the-great-trinity-debate-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-24426 Sandra H Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:19:59 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3370#comment-24426 I nominate Dave Burke I nominate Dave Burke

]]> By: Miriam http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/the-great-trinity-debate-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-24394 Miriam Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:47:09 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3370#comment-24394 How profitable is it to put the Word that was made flesh into words? Isn't it more important to follow the Word that was made flesh, and live out the example of Jesus in our lives, than to invest a lot of time and effort in writing words about what Scripture calls "the mystery of godlinesss"? "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1 Timothy 3v16 How profitable is it to put the Word that was made flesh into words?

Isn’t it more important to follow the Word that was made flesh, and live out the example of Jesus in our lives, than to invest a lot of time and effort in writing words about what Scripture calls “the mystery of godlinesss”?

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” 1 Timothy 3v16

]]> By: Dave Burke http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/the-great-trinity-debate-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-24277 Dave Burke Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:52:22 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3370#comment-24277 I've had an email from Rob and sent two in reply. There's a few aspects of the debate that I'd like to clarify and negotiate. I’ve had an email from Rob and sent two in reply. There’s a few aspects of the debate that I’d like to clarify and negotiate.

]]> By: Xavier http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/the-great-trinity-debate-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-24142 Xavier Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:58:42 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3370#comment-24142 For more on Anthony Buzzard see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_F._Buzzard For more on Anthony Buzzard see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_F._Buzzard

]]> By: Rob Bowman http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/the-great-trinity-debate-challenge/comment-page-3/#comment-23914 Rob Bowman Sat, 23 Jan 2010 18:25:12 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3370#comment-23914 Hi all, I have emailed Dave Burke privately to begin discussing the dates for the debate and other details. I will announce the start date when we have everything in place. Hi all,

I have emailed Dave Burke privately to begin discussing the dates for the debate and other details. I will announce the start date when we have everything in place.

]]>