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	<title>Comments on: Christianity and World Religions by the Numbers</title>
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	<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/christianity-and-world-religions-by-the-numbers/</link>
	<description>Making Theology Accessible</description>
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		<title>By: Charts of Adherents for Religions and Denominations &#171; Jeff&#8217;s Thoughts</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/christianity-and-world-religions-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-20481</link>
		<dc:creator>Charts of Adherents for Religions and Denominations &#171; Jeff&#8217;s Thoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3308#comment-20481</guid>
		<description>[...] of Adherents for Religions and&#160;Denominations By Jeff  I came across a post with pie charts of the relative size the major world religions and Christian denominations the other day.  The post is at the Parchment and Pen blog which is connected with Reclaiming the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Adherents for Religions and&nbsp;Denominations By Jeff  I came across a post with pie charts of the relative size the major world religions and Christian denominations the other day.  The post is at the Parchment and Pen blog which is connected with Reclaiming the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ScottL</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/christianity-and-world-religions-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-20480</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3308#comment-20480</guid>
		<description>Actually Michael, I was just thinking about the numbers for Pentecostal/charismatics. Now, you just put the words Pentecostals, and then put 105 million. So that might be true of just Pentecostal groups. But noting the explosion in the wider grouping of Pentecostal/charismatic groups, I think that number reaches about 500 million. I believe it is Vinson Synan who records this in his large volume &lt;i&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Century-Pentecostal-Charismatic-Renewal-1901-2001/dp/0785245502/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1257590299&amp;sr=8-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Century of the Holy Spirit: 100 Years of Pentecostal and Charismatic Renewal, 1901-2001&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;.

This is all probably due to the exponential growth in places like India, Africa, China, and South &amp; Central America, which are connected to Pentecostal and charismatic churches. Actually, a few years back, I found these figures on John Piper&#039;s site:

Here are some interesting figures that I found on John Piper&#039;s website a few years back:

China: estimates are some 22,000 to 28,000 are born again each day (that is approx. 8-10 million born again each year!!)

Africa: 4% professing Christians in 1900; 40% professing Christians in 1990; some 16,000 to 20,000 people born again each day.

India: approx. 15,000 people born again each day

I believe similar numbers are true of South America, and possibly Central America.

I think this is quite astounding growth. Almost like the book of Acts all over again in places like China.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Michael, I was just thinking about the numbers for Pentecostal/charismatics. Now, you just put the words Pentecostals, and then put 105 million. So that might be true of just Pentecostal groups. But noting the explosion in the wider grouping of Pentecostal/charismatic groups, I think that number reaches about 500 million. I believe it is Vinson Synan who records this in his large volume <i><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Century-Pentecostal-Charismatic-Renewal-1901-2001/dp/0785245502/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1257590299&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">Century of the Holy Spirit: 100 Years of Pentecostal and Charismatic Renewal, 1901-2001</a></i>.</p>
<p>This is all probably due to the exponential growth in places like India, Africa, China, and South &amp; Central America, which are connected to Pentecostal and charismatic churches. Actually, a few years back, I found these figures on John Piper&#8217;s site:</p>
<p>Here are some interesting figures that I found on John Piper&#8217;s website a few years back:</p>
<p>China: estimates are some 22,000 to 28,000 are born again each day (that is approx. 8-10 million born again each year!!)</p>
<p>Africa: 4% professing Christians in 1900; 40% professing Christians in 1990; some 16,000 to 20,000 people born again each day.</p>
<p>India: approx. 15,000 people born again each day</p>
<p>I believe similar numbers are true of South America, and possibly Central America.</p>
<p>I think this is quite astounding growth. Almost like the book of Acts all over again in places like China.</p>
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		<title>By: Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/christianity-and-world-religions-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-20479</link>
		<dc:creator>Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3308#comment-20479</guid>
		<description>The first two charts documenting the major religions are useful for charting major trends. However, the other charts that break down denominational affiliations are of very limited use because denominational labels do not tells us as much about a person&#039;s beliefs as they once did. In this age there are Calvinists who attend Arminian churches, Pentecostals who attend Baptist churches, Roman Catholics who hold to Evangelical theology, and members of Evangelical denominations  who are truth rejecting postmodernists.

This same difficulty also plagues the discussion of whether America is becoming more secular nation. Recent data from Pew Research which shows that fewer people are affiliated is used to argue to America is becomng more secular. However, a growing number of people who remain very devout in their beliefs are quitting church and are then counted among the secularists.

I&#039;m not sure if it is possible to do an accurate survey based on beliefs rather than denominational affiliation, but a chart that charted commitments to various types of beliefs would be more useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first two charts documenting the major religions are useful for charting major trends. However, the other charts that break down denominational affiliations are of very limited use because denominational labels do not tells us as much about a person&#8217;s beliefs as they once did. In this age there are Calvinists who attend Arminian churches, Pentecostals who attend Baptist churches, Roman Catholics who hold to Evangelical theology, and members of Evangelical denominations  who are truth rejecting postmodernists.</p>
<p>This same difficulty also plagues the discussion of whether America is becoming more secular nation. Recent data from Pew Research which shows that fewer people are affiliated is used to argue to America is becomng more secular. However, a growing number of people who remain very devout in their beliefs are quitting church and are then counted among the secularists.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure if it is possible to do an accurate survey based on beliefs rather than denominational affiliation, but a chart that charted commitments to various types of beliefs would be more useful.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Dulle</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/christianity-and-world-religions-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-20478</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Dulle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3308#comment-20478</guid>
		<description>Michael,

Where are Oneness Pentecostals in the chart?  Are they included in the number of Pentcostals in charts 5-6, or are they excluded from those charts because they are considered to be part of the &quot;Non-Trinitarian/cult&quot; category in charts 3-4?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>Where are Oneness Pentecostals in the chart?  Are they included in the number of Pentcostals in charts 5-6, or are they excluded from those charts because they are considered to be part of the &#8220;Non-Trinitarian/cult&#8221; category in charts 3-4?</p>
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		<title>By: C Michael Patton</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/christianity-and-world-religions-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-20477</link>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3308#comment-20477</guid>
		<description>I agree, these type of stats are bound to have many inaccuracies, but I do think that they are helpful in providing a generally accurate overview.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, these type of stats are bound to have many inaccuracies, but I do think that they are helpful in providing a generally accurate overview.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael L</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/christianity-and-world-religions-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-20476</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3308#comment-20476</guid>
		<description>John,

&lt;i&gt;Beyond that, I’m never quite sure what should be done with the information. It’s interesting but ...&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;CMP’s charts do look pretty, though, so perhaps they could be printed and used as abstract wall art&lt;/i&gt;

Didn&#039;t you just answer your own question ?

Besides being informative, interesting and (perhaps another useless tidbit of) knowledge, I don&#039;t think there&#039;s more to it. I personally won&#039;t do more with it.

Numbers may be inflated, but since all denominations are known to do that, it pretty much cancels each other out.

In Him
Mick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p><i>Beyond that, I’m never quite sure what should be done with the information. It’s interesting but &#8230;</i></p>
<p><i>CMP’s charts do look pretty, though, so perhaps they could be printed and used as abstract wall art</i></p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t you just answer your own question ?</p>
<p>Besides being informative, interesting and (perhaps another useless tidbit of) knowledge, I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s more to it. I personally won&#8217;t do more with it.</p>
<p>Numbers may be inflated, but since all denominations are known to do that, it pretty much cancels each other out.</p>
<p>In Him<br />
Mick</p>
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		<title>By: #John1453</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/christianity-and-world-religions-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-20475</link>
		<dc:creator>#John1453</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3308#comment-20475</guid>
		<description>Re my post 21

I was serious in questioning the numbers, because it is well known that churches report inflated numbers, and that different churches and religions report adherents differently.

Beyond that, I&#039;m never quite sure what should be done with the information. It&#039;s interesting but . . . . but &quot;what&quot; I&#039;m not sure. Does the information change anything Jesus wants us to do? Should it change the public policy of America?

I&#039;m not trying to just be a wet blanket. Maybe the answer is simple and I just don&#039;t know where to look.

regards,
#John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re my post 21</p>
<p>I was serious in questioning the numbers, because it is well known that churches report inflated numbers, and that different churches and religions report adherents differently.</p>
<p>Beyond that, I&#8217;m never quite sure what should be done with the information. It&#8217;s interesting but . . . . but &#8220;what&#8221; I&#8217;m not sure. Does the information change anything Jesus wants us to do? Should it change the public policy of America?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not trying to just be a wet blanket. Maybe the answer is simple and I just don&#8217;t know where to look.</p>
<p>regards,<br />
#John</p>
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		<title>By: Charting the Numbers: Religions and Christian Sects Worldwide &#171; Theosophical Ruminations</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/christianity-and-world-religions-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-20474</link>
		<dc:creator>Charting the Numbers: Religions and Christian Sects Worldwide &#171; Theosophical Ruminations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3308#comment-20474</guid>
		<description>[...] under Religions Leave a Comment&#160;  Michael Patton at Reclaiming the Mind has some nice charts showing the breakdown of the world’s religions (numbers and percentages), as well as the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] under Religions Leave a Comment&nbsp;  Michael Patton at Reclaiming the Mind has some nice charts showing the breakdown of the world’s religions (numbers and percentages), as well as the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael L</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/christianity-and-world-religions-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-20473</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3308#comment-20473</guid>
		<description>Ehhh..

From an Irenic perspective, please do me a favor.

Can we rename the &lt;i&gt;Christian Denominations Chart&lt;/i&gt; something like &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Major Protestant Denominations Chart&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;

Or of course include RC&#039;s and Orthodox in it, which would make it the Christian traditions chart ;-)

Besides that, pretty good stuff. I&#039;m a little surprised that the &quot;non-Trinitarian&quot; number isn&#039;t any higher, assuming LDS and JW is in here. From some of the latest numbers out there, LDS is about 15 million, JW about 7. That&#039;s already 22. I would have thought there&#039;d be more than 5 million &quot;other non-Trinitarians&quot; out there, but I&#039;ll accept this number.

In Him
Mick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ehhh..</p>
<p>From an Irenic perspective, please do me a favor.</p>
<p>Can we rename the <i>Christian Denominations Chart</i> something like <i><b>Major Protestant Denominations Chart</b></i></p>
<p>Or of course include RC&#8217;s and Orthodox in it, which would make it the Christian traditions chart <img src='http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Besides that, pretty good stuff. I&#8217;m a little surprised that the &#8220;non-Trinitarian&#8221; number isn&#8217;t any higher, assuming LDS and JW is in here. From some of the latest numbers out there, LDS is about 15 million, JW about 7. That&#8217;s already 22. I would have thought there&#8217;d be more than 5 million &#8220;other non-Trinitarians&#8221; out there, but I&#8217;ll accept this number.</p>
<p>In Him<br />
Mick</p>
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		<title>By: #John1453</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/christianity-and-world-religions-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-20472</link>
		<dc:creator>#John1453</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=3308#comment-20472</guid>
		<description>I look at all such charts and counts with a jaundiced eye. And I question both their worth and their usefulness.

National Geographic writer Shelley Sperry makes the following points in her on-line article, &quot;The Problem of Numbers&quot;:

&quot;. . . But precise information about religious adherence is among the hardest sociological data to pin down accurately, because there are so many variables. Religions and denominations within religions count their members in a variety of ways, making comparisons difficult. Some include regular attendees at services; others tally all known members of a community, whether they attend services or not. Some religious institutions count children from birth; others require potential members to undergo a particular rite of passage before including them in the total.

&quot;Scientific polls, such as those collected by the Association of Religious Data Archives or conducted by the Pew Forum on Religion &amp; Public Life, are frequently used to count believers and understand patterns of belief, but results can vary widely, depending upon how questions are asked and respondents’ willingness to identify themselves according to the researchers’ categories. For example, the 2000 Religious Congregations and Membership Study (RCMS) was considered the most thorough count of U.S. religious congregations and members when it came out, but immediately underwent revision when researchers realized that it dramatically undercounted traditionally African American churches and their members as well as a few other groups that had refused to respond to the survey. . . .&quot;

CMP&#039;s charts do look pretty, though, so perhaps they could be printed and used as abstract wall art.

regards,
#John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I look at all such charts and counts with a jaundiced eye. And I question both their worth and their usefulness.</p>
<p>National Geographic writer Shelley Sperry makes the following points in her on-line article, &#8220;The Problem of Numbers&#8221;:</p>
<p>&#8220;. . . But precise information about religious adherence is among the hardest sociological data to pin down accurately, because there are so many variables. Religions and denominations within religions count their members in a variety of ways, making comparisons difficult. Some include regular attendees at services; others tally all known members of a community, whether they attend services or not. Some religious institutions count children from birth; others require potential members to undergo a particular rite of passage before including them in the total.</p>
<p>&#8220;Scientific polls, such as those collected by the Association of Religious Data Archives or conducted by the Pew Forum on Religion &amp; Public Life, are frequently used to count believers and understand patterns of belief, but results can vary widely, depending upon how questions are asked and respondents’ willingness to identify themselves according to the researchers’ categories. For example, the 2000 Religious Congregations and Membership Study (RCMS) was considered the most thorough count of U.S. religious congregations and members when it came out, but immediately underwent revision when researchers realized that it dramatically undercounted traditionally African American churches and their members as well as a few other groups that had refused to respond to the survey. . . .&#8221;</p>
<p>CMP&#8217;s charts do look pretty, though, so perhaps they could be printed and used as abstract wall art.</p>
<p>regards,<br />
#John</p>
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