Greg Stafford on praying to Jesus
In Putting Jesus in His Place: The Case for the Deity of Christ (Grand Rapids: Kregel, 2007), Ed Komoszewski and I argued that one evidence that Jesus is God is that he is properly the object of prayer (John 14:14; Acts 1:24-25; 7:59-60; 9:14; 22:16; Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:2; 16:22; 2 Cor. 12:8-9; Rev. 22:20-21; see pp. 47-53). In previous editions of his book Jehovah’s Witnesses Defended: An Answer to Scholars and Critics (Huntington Beach, CA: Elihu Books, 1998, 2000), Greg Stafford had argued, against this traditional Christian argument, that Jesus is not the proper object of prayer (see especially 2nd ed., pp. 583-86). Ed and I took issue specifically with one of his Stafford’s arguments in support of that standard JW position: Stafford had argued that when Stephen “called upon” Jesus to receive his spirit while he was being stoned to death (Acts 7:59) this was comparable to Paul appealing to Caesar, and therefore not really prayer (585). Ed and I pointed out (Putting Jesus in His Place, 299) that the verb “to call upon” can have a political/legal context (as in Paul appealing to Caesar) or a spiritual/religious context. The latter, not the former, is obviously applicable in the context of Stephen calling on Jesus to receive his spirit. Another writer who had critiqued Stafford’s handling of biblical passages concerning prayer to Jesus was James Stewart, who wrote an online piece examining the textual critical issue of the inclusion of “me” in John 14:14 (“If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it”).
Somewhat surprisingly, in the third edition of Jehovah’s Witnesses Defended Stafford drops his objections to Jesus being properly the object of prayer. Stafford now concedes that Jesus receives, hears, and answers prayer:
“According to the Bible, the Son does hear and respond to our prayers (John 14:13-14). Therefore, no Christian should feel uncomfortable addressing Jesus directly, either as Jesus taught in John 14:13-14 or as Stephen did according to Acts 7:59” (302).
This statement represents a clear change from Stafford’s earlier position (which, again, was and is the standard JW position). Oddly, though, in a footnote Stafford refers readers to the now missing appendix E on John 14:14 from the second edition, in which Stafford had laboriously sought to deny that we may direct prayers to the Son: “For more on the biblical teaching of praying and appealing to Jesus, see Appendix E on pages 583-586 of my Jehovah’s Witnesses Defended….” (302 n. 2). Does he suppose that we have forgotten his earlier view?
As recently as June 2008, Stafford apparently still denied that Jesus was the proper object of prayer, and had intended to include a version of that same appendix in the third edition of his book. Perhaps wrestling with this issue was one of the reasons behind the delay in the book’s release. In any case, Stafford now clearly allows that Christians may properly approach Jesus directly in prayer and that Jesus both hears and answers prayer. One would think this significant change in position would merit some sort of acknowledgment from Stafford that his older doctrine has had to be modified, but to the contrary, Stafford cites his second edition polemic against praying to Jesus as if his position had remained entirely unchanged.
One may state the traditional Christian argument for the identity of Jesus as God from his reception of prayer as a simple syllogism:
- The only proper recipient of prayer is God.
- Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer.
- Therefore, Jesus is God.
I should mention that in Putting Jesus in His Place, Ed and I put this and numerous other lines of evidence in a larger, cumulative-case argument, so that we were not treating this piece of evidence in isolation. Still, the above deductive argument is, we think, a good one. Until recently, Stafford has sought to refute this argument by objecting to the second premise: in his older view, Jesus was not the proper recipient of prayer. Now that Stafford has conceded this second premise, one might suppose that he would have to admit that this argument wasn’t so bad after all. Not so: Stafford now argues that Ed and I are in error in affirming the first premise (with which Stafford himself used to agree).
Ed and I had made the statement, “One basic functional definition [of deity, god, or God] is that a deity is an object of prayer. Any being (real or imagined) perceived to have a supernatural or spiritual nature and to whom devotion is expressed and requests are made is in practical terms one’s deity” (Putting Jesus in His Place, 47). Stafford criticizes this statement, complaining that we “provide no historical discussion or even any modern source for [our] ‘functional definition’ of ‘deity, god, or God’” (Stafford, Jehovah’s Witnesses Defended, 3rd ed., 301). Notice that Stafford does not deny that this functional definition can be supported, only that we didn’t make such documentation explicit. The fact is that various sources do define prayer as communication with a deity or god:
- “an address (as a petition) to God or a god in word or thought” (Merriam-Webster)
- “a reverent petition made to God, a god, or another object of worship” (Free Dictionary)
- “the act of communicating with a deity” (Princeton)
- “the act of addressing a god or spirit for the purpose of prayer or petition” (Wikipedia)
- “A practice of communication with one’s God” (Wiktionary)
In any case, in the Bible, the only legitimate object of prayer is the one true God, whom the Old Testament calls Yahweh (Jehovah). We cited quite a few biblical texts in support of this point, which is the first premise of the argument as stated above (Gen. 4:26; 1 Chron. 16:8; Ps. 65:2; Is. 44:17; 45:20-22; Joel 2:32). Throughout the rest of the Old Testament, Jehovah alone is the only proper recipient of prayer—and the only deity who really is there and able to answer prayer. So confident of this point was Elijah, the prophet of Jehovah, that he challenged the prophets of Baal to a contest in which “the god who answers . . . is indeed God” (1 Kings 18:24 NRSV). Of course, we know that Jehovah won that contest!
Until recently, Stafford agreed with the first premise of the above argument. Now, however, he dismisses the premise. While he implicitly admits that the premise holds true in the Old Testament, Stafford contends that “God can designate someone else to ‘hear’ and to ‘respond’ to prayers that are directed to such agents but because they are God’s agents who only express his will” (301). Stafford alleges that Ed and I fail “to accept the biblical teaching considered earlier, namely, that God has appointed someone (his most beloved Son) to hear and to respond to our prayers in some sense” (303). Here again, Stafford’s assertion is rather odd, because he has not actually demonstrated from even one biblical text that God had appointed Jesus to hear and respond to prayers as God’s agent. Instead, Stafford deduces that this must be the explanation for prayers directed to Christ, since on other grounds he has already determined that Jesus is not God but only God’s agent. There is no biblical passage teaching that God has assigned to Jesus, as his created agent, the responsibility of hearing and answering prayers on God’s behalf. No such statement appears anywhere in the Bible.
If God had assigned to Jesus, as a creature, the task of receiving and answering prayers as God’s agent, this would be surprising in at least two ways.
1. As Stafford himself seems to concede, it would be unprecedented. No creature in the Old Testament hears and answers prayer on God’s behalf, and in fact the Old Testament everywhere assumes that Jehovah is the only proper recipient of prayer, as has been documented.
2. If God had assigned to a creature the task of hearing and answering prayers as his agent, this would be surprising because it would be inexplicable. Although the idea of the infinite Creator of the universe hearing the prayers of all people (silent as well as audible!) at all times is rather mind-boggling, it is still rationally explicable, because an infinite, transcendent Creator possessing omniscience would presumably have no difficulty hearing (and keeping track of!) all prayers at all times. But this is truly an astonishing activity to suppose any creature capable of performing, even for a minute or two, let alone constantly, at every moment of every day (which is clearly what would be required). If Christ is merely a creature, no matter how great a creature (and undoubtedly Stafford views Christ as a wondrously great creature), it is simply inexplicable how he could hear the prayers of all people who pray to him. As Ed and I pointed out, “Only the transcendent, omniscient, omnipotent God can hear the prayers of all people and respond to them as he chooses” (Putting Jesus in His Place, 47).
I should emphasize here that the really astounding problem for Stafford’s view is not so much that God might answer prayers through Jesus acting as his agent, but that Jesus himself should receive and hear all of the prayers himself. In our book, Ed and I even acknowledged that God is free to choose to answer prayers through created agents: “God may choose to answer prayers through creatures acting as his agents, but that is for him to decide” (ibid.). Stafford ignores this acknowledgment and critiques our position as if we have no awareness of God’s freedom to act through agents. This is a fatal error in his critique. Our position is, not that God cannot delegate certain responsibilities to created agents, but that there are some things that only God can do, and hearing the prayers of all his people is one of those things.
If Jesus can receive and hear all of his people’s prayers, then it would seem that there is nothing Jesus cannot do. Thus, Stafford’s concession implies some astonishing conclusions about Jesus Christ that Stafford’s agent Christology seems ill-equipped to handle.
According to Stafford, in speaking of the reception of prayer as a function of deity Ed and I are defining God in an improper manner. “Bowman and Komoszewski define what it means to be ‘God’ but not in terms of what is done by God. . . . Rather, Bowman and Komoszewski attempt to define what it means to be ‘G-god’ by what is done to God, in this case, prayer.” Stafford’s criticism here illustrates the dangers of treating one aspect of the biblical evidence for the deity of Christ in isolation. We were quite clear in Putting Jesus in His Place that there were multiple streams of evidence for the identity of Jesus as God and that the honors Jesus receives (including prayer) represent just one stream of that biblical evidence. As anyone who has read our book knows, we “define” God in several converging ways, including (among other ways) both what is done by God (his “deeds”) and what is done toward God (his “honors”). Prayer is a perfect example. Jesus both receives the divine honor of receiving prayer and performs the divine deeds of hearing and answering prayer. For example, when Jesus says, “If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it” (John 14:14), we see Jesus receiving divine honors (as the proper object or recipient of prayer, “If you ask me”) and performing divine deeds (as the one who hears the prayer and “will do” it). For largely pedagogical reasons we chose to discuss prayer under the heading of honors instead of deeds, but we could have discussed it under the heading of deeds, or under both headings for that matter.
Finally, John 14:14 directly conflicts with Stafford’s agency Christological explanation of Jesus’ role in answering prayer. Stafford’s position is that believers may approach Jesus in prayer because Jesus acts on Jehovah the Father’s behalf, as his agent. In other words, believers may ask Jesus to do something, on the authority of Jehovah whom Jesus represents as his agent, and Jesus, acting in that capacity as God’s agent, will do it. But there is a key phrase in Jesus’ statement that undermines this theological interpretation: “If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it” (emphasis added). We are so used to hearing prayers ending perfunctorily in the words “in Jesus’ name” that we are likely to miss the point. Jesus here specifically invites his disciples to pray to him, Jesus, in his name, on his own authority—not, as one might have expected, on the authority of the Father.
Stafford might reply that the preceding verse establishes that Jesus was offering to answer prayer on the Father’s behalf: “Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son” (John 14:13). But there is no Son-as-agent principle here. Jesus promises in both verses that he will do whatever the disciples ask in his name. In verse 13, Jesus describes the result (not the condition) as the glorification of the Father in the Son. This is not the Son as a created agent acting only to bring glory to the Creator. Rather, as we see throughout the Upper Room discourse and prayer in John, this is the Father and the Son as two divine persons who are intent on glorifying each other and being glorified in each other (John 13:31-32; 14:13; 15:8; 16:14; 17:1, 4-5).
In conclusion, Jesus’ promise to receive and answer our prayers illustrates all five of the streams of biblical evidence for the deity of Christ discussed in Putting Jesus in His Place:
- Honors: Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer, a supernatural, transcendent person to whom we may rightly bring our petitions.
- Attributes: It is only because the Son is exactly like his Father, sharing in his divine attributes of omniscience and omnipotence, that the Son has the ability to back up his promise to do whatever we ask in his name.
- Names: Those who truly know the Son as their Lord and God (John 20:28) will be perfectly free to pray to the Son in his own “name,” knowing that because the Father and the Son are “one” (John 10:30) whatever glorifies the Son glorifies the Father and vice versa.
- Deeds: Jesus actually hears all of the prayers of his people and answers them.
- Seat: Prayer directed to the Son is directed to one who is intimately alongside the Father in divine glory (John 1:18; 17:5) and thus sits on the very seat of God’s throne, from which he has the authority—not as God’s created agent, but as God’s eternal Son—to receive and answer our prayers.
- Greg Stafford defends Jehovah's Witnesses from the margins
- In What Sense Are Jesus and the Father One? Part II: One in Power?
- Open Discussion: Clout with God?
- In What Sense Are Jesus and the Father One? Part III: One in Purpose? C: John 17:21-23
- Millet Lite: Mormon Scholar’s Christology Sounds Great, But It’s Less Filling
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Bryan on 19 Oct 2009 at 9:16 am #
It’s a little disapointing to see Stafford make a stand on this particular piece of ground — it can’t be defended for long.
He must be aware that prayer directed to a being is an act that, within the second-temple Jewish praxis, was clearly reserved only for the One God. Hasn’t Hurtado pointed out that, whatever elevated view might be held of principal angels, patriarchs, etc., prayer was a special and reserved act?
At this point, one has to wonder if Stafford’s argument could support the idea that God could also ‘assign’ some creature to be the object of exclusive devotion and worship. I mean, while we’re at it…
Matt Sullivan on 19 Oct 2009 at 10:50 am #
Why should we care about what Greg Stafford says?
He is not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and does not represent JWs.
But it is not proper to pray to Jesus according to the trinity since he is said to be the second person. It is more proper to pray to #1. That one who is #1 is Jehovah God.
cherylu on 19 Oct 2009 at 11:22 am #
Rob,
Thank you for posting this. It is a very good point that I had not thought about when speaking to those, Jehovah’s Witnesses or otherwise, that do not believe that Jesus is God.
EricW on 19 Oct 2009 at 12:26 pm #
[Eastern] Orthodox and Roman Catholic Christians pray to the saints and the Theotokos/Mother of God for their intercession all the time. This practice seemed to have arisen rather early in the church – see, e.g., John Rylands Papyrus 470:
“Beneath your compassion we take refuge Theotokos. Our petitions do not despise in time of trouble, but from danger rescue us, Only Holy, Only Blessed.”
Some initially placed this papyrus in the fourth or fifth century, but the John Rylands Library description lists it as 3rd – 4th century. If 3rd century, that could push its creation/use back into the late 2nd century.
http://www.library.manchester.ac.uk/eresources/imagecollections/university/papyrus/
Thus, in historical Christian tradition, prayer to a spiritual personage did not require or imply that the one praying to that personage regarded them as being Deity.
Did Temple-era Jewish tradition and practice explicitly forbid prayer to anyone/anything other than God? Do we have examples of prayers to, e.g., Elijah?
Rob Bowman on 19 Oct 2009 at 2:26 pm #
Matt,
You need not care about what Greg Stafford thinks, but his difficulty in disputing the biblical teaching that Jesus is the proper object of prayer should be of concern to you. As I point out, this is the biblical teaching (see the numerous references I cited in my post).
Rob Bowman on 19 Oct 2009 at 2:52 pm #
EricW,
First, the fact that such a wide range of dates for the papyrus have been proposed should make you cautious about arguing for the extreme earliest date as part of an apologetic.
Second, even assuming a date of about 250 for the papyrus, it is about 150 years too late to establish the practice of the Christians responsible for the New Testament.
Third, forgive my bluntness, but if we base our doctrine on Scripture, rather than on selective appeals to tradition, we will reject prayers to Mary or the saints.
Your argument does pose an interesting problem for those who take Greg Stafford’s view, however. If he allows prayer to one creature, why not prayer to other creatures?
Rob Bowman on 19 Oct 2009 at 2:54 pm #
Bryan,
You’re tracking very nicely with me. The point about worship and devotion also going to God’s created agent was one that I planned to make in a subsequent entry here.
EricW on 19 Oct 2009 at 3:29 pm #
Rob:
The point I was making/suggesting is that if seeking the intercession of persons who were not deity was, if not normative, at least allowable or practiced and not proscribed within Judaism and/or Christianity in the Ante-Nicene period, then the fact that Jesus is prayed to does not in itself prove His Deity, and I think weakens an argument that says:
1. Christians and Jews in Jesus’ time only prayed to God.
2. Christians in the New Testament prayed to Jesus.
3. Therefore, Jesus is God.
I’m not encouraging or supporting prayers to saints or Mary, just throwing this into the discussion because it could indicate that there was an acceptance of making petitions to beings other than God. I don’t know, though, hence my question/comment.
Rob Bowman on 19 Oct 2009 at 3:47 pm #
EricW,
I am not aware of any allowance within Judaism or Christianity in the biblical period for seeking the intercession of non-divine persons. The argument I made would not, however, be affected at all by the idea of asking supernatural beings to intercede on behalf of the petitioner. That concept is different from asking a supernatural being to do something himself (or herself!) on behalf of the petitioner.
For example, if it were possible for me to ask Mary to pray for me, I would not be asking Mary to do anything herself for me (heal me, provide spiritual strength for me, etc.) but rather asking her to pray to God on my behalf.
By contrast, Jesus invites us not merely to request his intercession on our behalf but to ask him anything in his name, promising, “and *I* will do it” (John 14:14).
John on 19 Oct 2009 at 6:07 pm #
These verses do not prove that prayer is inherently only properly addressed to God. Some of these verses are simply examples of prayer to God. Others contrast prayer to Yahweh with prayer to brass idols. Since no “Christian” or even pseudo-Christian religion would think otherwise, this doesn’t help the case.
The unprecedented argument: This would depend on your definition of prayer. If you define it as conversing with heavenly beings, then conversing with angels would kill this argument. You have to assume a particular category of conversing where you can’t see the recipient. But why would this be a good category of delineation? We talk on the phone all the time without considering it a wholly different thing.
And I presume Stafford would put out the unprecedented argument: It is unprecedented in the OT to consider prayer to be going to three persons in one. Apparently he has now modified this to be all prayer goes to the One through the Son.
The inexplicable argument: This is just making an assumption about the capabilities of a class of being that you know nothing about. Not a great argument.
Did any of the Church fathers use these arguments during the Arian controversy? Not that I remember.
Jeff Downs on 19 Oct 2009 at 7:33 pm #
John:
Did any of the Church fathers use these arguments during the Arian controversy? Not that I remember.
Does this really matter? Have we not grown in our understanding of scripture since then, have not our argument be refined, etc…
I would hope so. If not, we could simply quote the Church fathers. Notice I say simply, because I certainly believe it is appropriate to quote them, although, it is the scriptures themselves that carry the final authority.
Sue on 19 Oct 2009 at 10:11 pm #
I think Bruce Ware is pretty explicit that although one can pray in the name of Christ, you can only pray TO God the father, since he is supreme and has authority over Christ.
Eric Pement on 19 Oct 2009 at 10:23 pm #
Rob, I have for a long time believed that 1 John 5:14-15 is another instance of praying directly to Jesus, one often overlooked.
[1Jn 5:13-15, NASB] “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. [14] This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. [15] And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.”
Contextually, it looks like the antecedent of “He” and “Him” is “the Son of God.”
HS Shin on 19 Oct 2009 at 10:57 pm #
I’ve learned that getting at what early Christians did is often a good thing. But the reality is, they certainly were not free from making an occasional mistake. I’m okay with the early fathers having prayed to saints and persons other than Jesus — I just think their actions don’t really match up with Scripture.
Rob Bowman on 20 Oct 2009 at 12:28 am #
Sue,
I hope you’re mistaken about Ware, who has always seemed to me to be a good theologian. If you can supply a reference on this point, I’ll take a look.
Rob Bowman on 20 Oct 2009 at 12:41 am #
John,
Psalm 65:2 addresses Jehovah as “you who hears prayer”; this seems to assign the hearing of prayer exclusively to Jehovah without any qualification.
The Isaiah texts do more than contrast Jehovah with manmade idols. They predicate Jehovah’s ability to answer prayer on his sovereignty over history and his exclusive status as the only God. Isaiah 45:20-22 is one of the strongest and most explicit monotheistic texts in the Bible.
Joel 2:32 prophesies a time when people will call on the name of Jehovah to be saved, and the NT repeatedly applies this very verse to people calling on the name of the Lord Jesus to be saved (e.g., Rom. 10:9-12, among many occurrences).
Defining prayer as “conversing” is clearly an attempt to change the subject, as my whole line of argument focuses on invoking the name of a supernatural being to appeal to his aid or help or intervention or mercy. “Any being (real or imagined) perceived to have a supernatural or spiritual nature and to whom devotion is expressed and requests are made is in practical terms one’s deity” (_Putting Jesus in His Place_, 47, quoted above). John, you are obviously smart enough to know better.
Your dismissal of the “inexplicable” argument is far too cavalier. The difficulty of a finite being hearing multitudes of prayers simultaneously is both intuitive and obvious. I’m not inclined to take seriously the claim that I bear the burden of proof on this one.
Sue on 20 Oct 2009 at 8:29 pm #
Father, Son and Holy Spirit
The Christian’s life of prayer must rightly acknowledge the roles of Father, Son, and Spirit as we pray to the Father, through the Son, in the power of the Spirit. page 18
Prayer, then, follows a paradigm that reflects the taxis of the Trinity The Father has absolute and uncontested supremacy, including authority over the Son and the Spirit, so we pray to the Father. Yet we cannot come to the Father on our own; we have no right of access as finite creatures and as sinners. So we come only on the basis of Christ …. page 153
So, for example, when we pray, we address God the Fther just as Jesus instructed us. page 44
We are to join with Jesus in acknowledging that tge Father has supremacy. page 48
For Ware and many others, the Father never submits to the Son and the Son always submits to the Father. If the Father never submits to the Son, then it is of no value – although not actually sinful – to pray to the Son.
Nick Norelli on 20 Oct 2009 at 8:43 pm #
Rob: This has nothing to do with your post really, but the reference you’re looking for in Ware’s writing can be found in chapter 1 (cf. chapter 3 [p. 47 esp.]) of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: Relationship, Roles, and Relevance. Ware says:
Sue on 20 Oct 2009 at 8:50 pm #
Thanks Nick. If you have an electronic version, it would be great to see much of pages 152 and 153, in this book, which is, I think, the passage which has raised the issue for many people.
Nick Norelli on 20 Oct 2009 at 8:55 pm #
Sue must have been typing her comment as I was typing mine. Sorry for the repetition.
Sue: I have the print version, but I’ll take a look at those pages. I remember distinctly criticizing his view of prayer to Jesus when I reviewed this book.
Sue on 20 Oct 2009 at 9:20 pm #
Oh, you are just a better typist! thanks so much. I typed mine from google books.
Rob Bowman on 20 Oct 2009 at 9:33 pm #
Eric Pement,
I can’t believe I missed that one! I think you’re right about 1 John 5:14-15. I went back a few more verses and the context continues to support the Son as the person referenced in verses 14-15. Thanks for this valuable insight.
Rob Bowman on 20 Oct 2009 at 9:34 pm #
Sue and Nick,
Thanks for bringing this information about Ware’s view to my attention. This is something I think will deserve a separate response.
#John1453 on 21 Oct 2009 at 12:39 pm #
It seems to me that it is incorrect to conclude that we must end every prayer with the words, “in Jesus name”. Praying in His name, from what I can tell by reading the NT, means praying in His authority, because we have the required relationship with Him. I don’t think it means turning a prayer into a magical incantation. Consequently, I rarely end my prayers with the tag line “in Jesus name.” In whose else name would I be praying?
In regard to Ware, here is another telling quote from his book:
“Yet notice one more detail. Paul begins his prayer bowing his knees neither to the Son nor to the Spirit but to the Father, “from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named.” The Father then is the Sovereign Ruler over heaven and earth, controlling even the very names that every creature is given. From this position of sovereign supremacy, it is the Father who has the authority to grant this prayer’s fulfillment, and so ultimately all glory and thanksgiving must go to him.
Because of this, Paul prays to the Father that the Spirit will enlarge the likeness and experience of Christ in those who believe. As Paul’s prayer so clearly indicates, then, the Spirit works in our sanctification to bring honour and glory to the Son, to the ultimate glory of the Father.”
regards,
John
Sue on 21 Oct 2009 at 5:58 pm #
This blog post summarizes an email exchange with Dr. Ware on this topic.
http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/12/21/jesus-unequal-in-prayer/
Cheryl writes,
“In my research for our new DVD on the Trinity I am amazed that the teaching that God has a hierarchy of “roles” has some convinced that it is the Father alone who hears and answers prayer. This is Bruce Ware’s position in his book on the Trinity called “Father, Son, & Holy Spirit”.
In email dialog with Dr. Ware, he has made it clear to me that he does not believe that it is a sin to pray to Jesus; however even though it is not a sin, these types of prayers do not go anywhere because Jesus does not have the role of hearing and answering prayer. On page 152-3 of his book he defines the only way to come to God in prayer. One must go to the Father alone in prayer and come through the authority of Jesus. Without coming to the Father alone and praying “in Jesus name, Amen”, at the end of our prayers, (signifying that we are coming in the authority of Jesus) our prayers will not go to God and our words will be empty, vain words.”
I am especially concerned because Dr. Ware has written a theology for children, and I would want to have an open dialogue on whether children should be taught that only God has authority and only God can answer prayer.
EricW on 21 Oct 2009 at 7:00 pm #
Ware is wrong, as the examples from John 14 and Stephen’s death point out.
Cheryl Schatz on 21 Oct 2009 at 8:41 pm #
In our DVD series on the Trinity called “The Trinity Eternity Past to Eternity Future” I have audio clips on Bruce Ware’s teaching on the Trinity including a clip where he states that “we ought not to pray to Jesus”. You can hear the clip here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLe-qF2nptA There are a couple of important quotes on this preview, but the particular clip where Bruce Ware says that we ought not to pray to Jesus is at the 7 minute mark.
Elias on 14 Nov 2009 at 6:40 am #
Rob, regarding the following statement:
“No creature in the Old Testament hears and answers prayer on God’s behalf, and in fact the Old Testament everywhere assumes that Jehovah is the only proper recipient of prayer, as has been documented.”
This is wrong, because you know that the Angel of the Lord was spoken to as if he was God. In other words, that’s a creation standing in the place of God, receiving communication that might normally be done in prayer.
Also, in the first paragraph you cite a number of verses to supposedly support “prayer to Jesus”. The ones that actually mention prayer are obviously in reference to God, not Christ (2 Cor 12:8-9 for example).
And when Christ is spoken to directly, it’s because the person sees Christ in vision (for example, Stephen in Acts, and John in Revelation).
Finally, verses that say that they “called on the name of Jesus” are not problematic for those who pray only to the Father, since every prayer to the Father is said in the name of the Son. (See John 16:23)
Rob Bowman on 14 Nov 2009 at 10:57 am #
Elias,
Your first argument assumes that the angel of the LORD was a creature. Where the angel of the LORD is identified as the LORD or as God, Christians traditionally have understood this figure as a preincarnate Christophany (appearance of Christ). Besides, later you disqualify any examples of praying to Jesus in which the one offering prayer to him saw him. If that argument is valid, why would it not apply to the angel of the LORD?
You claim that it is “obvious” that the verses I cited refer to prayer to God and not to Jesus. It isn’t obvious to me. In 2 Corinthians 12:8-9, Paul says he addressed “the Lord,” which in Paul’s vocabulary almost always refers to Jesus. Then the one to whom Paul prayed answered by referring to “my power”–after which Paul immediately expresses confidence in “the power of Christ.” This would appear to confirm that “the Lord” to whom he spoke was Christ.
When Stephen addressed Jesus, he didn’t merely speak to him; he stated that he saw Jesus at God’s right hand (i.e., sharing God’s throne), and asked Jesus to receive his spirit and to forgive his killers. Those two actions Stephen asked Jesus to do are divine prerogatives. And Luke says that Stephen “called upon” Jesus to do these things. So this was prayer to deity, not simply talking one person to another.
Finally, to “call upon” someone or to “call upon the name of” someone, in reference to a supernatural or heavenly being, meant to pray to them as a deity. This is not the same thing as praying to the Father and tacking on the words “in Jesus’ name.”
See the chapter on praying to Jesus in my book _Putting Jesus in His Place: The Case for the Deity of Christ_, for a more complete defense of the points made here.
Cheryl Schatz on 14 Nov 2009 at 1:39 pm #
Elias said:
“And when Christ is spoken to directly, it’s because the person sees Christ in vision (for example, Stephen in Acts, and John in Revelation).”
When we pay close attention to the account of the vision we see this:
Act 7:58 When they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
Stephen saw the vision while he was in the city. After Stephen told what he saw then they dragged him out of the city and started stoning him. It is at this point that Stephen says:
Act 7:59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!”
Act 7:60 Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.
The account does not even hint that Stephen saw the vision again. Stephen’s prayer to Jesus takes place some time after his vision of Jesus. There is a period of time required for them to drag Stephen out of the city and to stone him to death. Without Stephen having Jesus in a vision in front of him, there should be no denial that this is a prayer to Jesus. Elias assumes the vision is continuing on but he seems to have forgotten that there were events between the vision and the stoning.