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Rethinking Sanctification Because I Have To
by C Michael PattonSeptember 8th, 2009
148 Comments
Ten years ago I had it all figured out. Theology was perfect. My passions filled with the progressively growing belief that I was going to make a difference—a big difference. If people were in need, I could fix it . . . or at least direct them to the right way to fix it. I had all the answers. I was sanctified and I was being sanctified . . . fast (like Ferrari fast).
Fast forward ten years…
Things are much different now. I don’t have quite as much figured out. Passions are secure, but have been nuanced by the scars of my soul. Things I was so confident about before now make my spirit blush with frustration, salted with a bit of shame and bitterness. Fixing things is not as easy as it seemed back then. Complications have arisen. People are complicated. I am complicated.
Last week as I discussed spiritual growth with a discouraged Christian gal, I began to see my own plight in hers. She could not understand why she is not a “good” person. “I have been a Christian for thirty years and I feel as if I am less sanctified now than ever. I don’t understand. Maybe I am not even saved.”
As I reflected on this throughout the day, I realized that she and I are the same. Wait… Let me attempt to give you my previous definition of sanctification:
Sanctification n. The state of experiencing growth that is measured by becoming more Christ-like. Interpretation: You are getting better and better. You are not as mean as you were before. You don’t complain as much. You have a better outlook on life. You are never depressed. Your problems are dealt with in a more mature manner: you know, the way Christ dealt with them. Oh, and you also have more figured out than you did before.
Ten years after having this conception, I reflect on my own condition and find myself filled with frustration. Sure, I am not controlled by many of the sins that controlled me before, but I will have to call a strike on all the signs of sanctification listed above. New sins have arisen. Sins of personality. Grumpiness. Complaining. The inability to react to situations with a calm trust. Quick tempered. And you know what? There are some people I just don’t like and cannot be nice to. Sheesh, twenty years ago I was voted the nicest person at John Marshall High. Don’t believe me? Check the Yearbook. Finally (and you’re not going to believe this), I am progressively finding it harder and harder to not make up excuses about going to church on Sunday mornings, unless I am teaching or preaching—then I am gung-ho!
Why aren’t I getting “better”? I don’t know. I could blame it on so many things, but blame would just be another sign of my sorry state. (Don’t unsanctified people blame a lot? Adam?).
However, this has caused me to reassess myself and my view of sanctification. What does it mean to be made “holy” (the word from which we get “sanctification”)?
New life stages present you with new ways to show off your fallen nature. Kids. Four kids. Four kids under ten. Marriage. Death. Sadness. Time allows for more disappointment in others and yourself. You simply have more baggage to deal with than before. Oh, and then there are those times when you get depressed. Wait! Christians are not supposed to be able to get depressed. Especially those who teach theology. Goodness, what use is all that I do if I am now, ten years later, starting to get depressed? I used to be able to straighten depressed people out with a wave of my magic wand of proper biblical interpretation! Guess that does not work quite as well as I thought.
Ten years later, either I am not being sanctified (which is possible) or I need to rethink sanctification.
My hopes and thoughts are here:
Sanctification n. The process of Christian development that has more to do with how dependent you have become on the Lord, not necessarily about being “good.” Sanctification has more to do with how often you are broken before him, not your stoic ability to deal with pain. Sanctification has more to do with a recognition of your weaknesses than of your strengths. Sanctification has more to do with repentance than with the things that don’t require repentance. In the end, sanctification amounts to the progressive movements you make toward the side of God because you have no where else to go.
But then there are the fruits of the spirit. Oh yeah, those. Doesn’t joy cancel out depression? Doesn’t peace defeat irritability? Doesn’t faith do away with being scared that something bad is going to happen to my kids? No perfect little red bow on this post.
I am trying to rethink sanctification because I have to.
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148 Comments
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Sanctification has more to do with how often you are broken before him, not your stoic ability to deal with pain. Sanctification has more to do with a recognition of your weaknesses than of your strengths. Sanctification has more to do with repentance than with the things that don’t require repentance.
Awesome post. You hit the nail squarely on the head with this one.
Even Peter was humbled, finding himself denying Christ 3 times after insisting that such a terrible character defect was impossible and unthinkable to him.
I think we can expect our trials to increase as our maturity as Christians increases. I, too, once thought that I had it all figured out. Then, as I started to make a deeper commitment to God and congratulated myself on being a remarkably authentic Christian, I started to panic about the whole “you will be persecuted” warning. I used to pray to God that I be spared the most painful trials of faith, and the character humiliations that many of the great Christians faced.
Then one day I realized how presumptuous I had been, to assume that I was anywhere near the level of spiritual maturity where God would confront me with such trials. To compare my spiritual maturity to martyrs like Peter or Paul, let alone to Christians like you or Lisa? Ha! There is a reason that I have had a relatively trouble-free life as a Christian so far, and it is directly related to my lack of spiritual maturity, I am sure.
Now, I panic from both sides. I’m still afraid of being humbled and brought low like Peter was, but I’m even more afraid of making it through this life without ever being spiritually mature enough to face such trials. And I want to make sure that I always answer like Peter, with vehement denials and resolve to never fail, rather than like Judas, who simply asked, “will I?”.
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As of lately, I’ve been wondering why am I not sanctified as I ought to be; it’s been 16+ years since I’ve been saved. I instead find myself growing tired of church (and not to the exclusion of my unhealed past). Don’t get me wrong: I have a deep yearning for knowing the truth of God’s Word, but sometimes is doesn’t look like the Word is becoming flesh in my life. This new perspective of sanctification, however, does give me something to think about. Thank Michael.
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Thanks Josh.
Pete, I just added a portion to this before I read yours. It was the hardest to include and I went back and forth. It is in the paragraph that starts “Ten years after having this conception…”
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I appreciate you openness in your posts. It is hard when we come to realize we are not what we think we are as followers of Christ. For me it was wrestling with Philippians 2:12-13. I struggle the fear and I have to say that Joshua Allen summarized in very well in his post earlier. Who am I to think so great of myself? But I am encouraged that is God who is working in me.
Michael, I have to say, though you might not always feel sanctified, it’s is through your struggles that I have gain great insight and wisdom in the faith. He has worked in you and through you to many.
Stay Strong
J.T.
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I think one of the things about being sanctified is that the more we grow to understand God and Jesus, the more we realise how short we fall.
The shorter we fall the more we feel, “whoa whats going on?”.
What we need to do is remember that the more we change, grow, understand, the more we should be relying on God. Its now how short we fall, but how the grace of God in Christ covers that shortfall al the more.
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Another Geoff,
How cool is that. I look at the prophets in the Old Testament and the struggles of the disciples in the New Testament and understand that in our fallen nature we will be tricked by the devil into thinking we are not good enough to deserve what God has offered us. The funny thing is that we are not good enough to deserve the sanctification that Jesus offered to us freely through His death and resurrection. The closer we get to Jesus the dirtier we look. I think it is a necessary thing and if we realize that we cannot do anything to feel like we deserve it we can move on and make every day a new day and not worry about our short comings. Then we can rely on the Holy Spirit to guide us instead of trying to do it all by ourselves. If we are honest with ourselves most of the time we say we want to have God help us but we automatically run ahead of God thinking we can figure out what He wants us to do instead of waiting on God and His direction before we move. Andrew Murray wrote a great devotional called Waiting on God and I am not finished with it yet, but it is very good so far. Sanctification is a work of God and not of ourselves. It can’t be grasped or taken hold of unless God shows us how. Its kinda like Andrew Murray says we are able to think with our minds, but we cannot use our minds to learn how to make our heart beat. It is only God who taught our hearts to beat. The same thing goes for sanctification in my mind. We have no control of our sanctification other than to deny or reject it. In my opinion =)
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Sanctification does not bring with it ‘subtraction.’ Sanctification deals only with ‘addition.’
To put this another way, sanctification is a spiritual phenomenon. We start off as babes (to use Paul’s terminology) and should grow into a mature person (spiritually speaking) over time. This ‘process’ of growing is called ‘sanctification.’ The means of sanctification is stated in John 17.17.
Our sin nature, the one Paul identifies in Rom 7, remains within us our entire physical, temporary life (life “in Adam”). It never leaves; it never gives up; it is always getting stronger, more deceptive, etc., and will over-power you on more occasions than you would like. This is why I said sanctification is not ‘subtraction.’ In the process of becoming more and more Christ-like, your old sin nature is not ipso facto becoming weaker and weaker.
Thus, sanctification is the on-going process of becoming more Christ-like, spiritually speaking. Our sin natures are unaffected by sanctification.
Eddie
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This explains a lot. Thanks.
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Thanks for sharing CMP,
I like to think of Paul when I think of this, in the way he progressively thought about himself as his life went on. First he was a pharisee of pharisees, then a sinner, and towards the end of his life he considered himself the chief sinner.
I want to create a bumper sticker that says “the closer I get to the Lord the more I realize how much I suck.” I think (or maybe just hope) that part of the sanctification process is being able to see who we really are apart from Christ more clearly. As our glasses get cleaner we see the real ugliness in our fleshly selves, and then the work that Christ is doing in us becomes more contrasted.
For me that vision of my true self doesn’t make me feel like an accomplished Christian, it actually stings. But it does remind me how much I need Jesus to transform me into the creation he wants me to be.
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Michael. Do you think there could be something to men not wanting to go to church? I’ve had a friend repeatedly recommend a book to me on why men hate going to church. If I teach or preach, I’m looking forward to it, but otherwise, not always. The exception is when we have interaction in the sermon and the pastor asks questions. Now our pastor is better than most and our church places an emphasis on apologetics, but I get tired of hearing sermons on an applicational level only and worship songs usually leave me just looking around wondering when we’re going to hear the message or thinking that I’d like to be at home listening to apologetics MP3s and playing on the Wii.
I’d be interested in seeing a post on that topic.
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I concur with J.T when he says: “Michael, I have to say, though you might not always feel sanctified, it’s through your struggles that I have gain great insight and wisdom in the faith.” Much love my brother.
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This is well stated in the Canons of Dordt (remember those?), first point, “Article 12: The Assurance of Election
Assurance of this their eternal and unchangeable election to salvation is given to the chosen in due time, though by various stages and in differing measure. Such assurance comes not by inquisitive searching into the hidden and deep things of God, but by noticing within themselves, with spiritual joy and holy delight, the unmistakable fruits of election pointed out in God’s Word–such as a true faith in Christ, a childlike fear of God, a godly sorrow for their sins, a hunger and thirst for righteousness, and so on.”
Well said! The overt presentation of the fruits of the Spirit are certainly symptoms of sanctification, displayed by different folks at various times and to various degrees, but they are NOT what saved them and therefor what provides assurance. The Gospel message and its echoing in us is assurance. That alone.
As Kim Riddlebarger (http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/welcome/) states in his excellent commentary on this article, the anst we feel does not challenge our salvation, it confirms it. It is the confirmation and result of our embrace of the actual Gospel message.
Michael, you seem to be saying much the same thing, so there is nothing new under the sun after all…
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I concur that this is a very good post.
In addition to becoming more dependent on God and leaning on his strength, I think sanctification is about being able to say, “Your will, not my will, Lord” and being able to relinquish our own ambitions, desires, dreams, and expectations. It’s about really considering what it means when we say God is sovereign over our life and can do with it whatever he wants.
It’s also about being able to say with Asaph, “Whom have I in heaven but you? / And earth has nothing I desire besides you.” (Psalm 73:25) Do I really believe that? Do I feel that way? I think reflecting on those two lines really gets to the heart of where our treasure is. Do we see God himself as our treasure? I think a mark of sanctification is when we see that our treasure is moving from this world to God.
BTW, the above questions and thoughts can be very discouraging when seen from our own, finite perspective because we fail in so many ways. It’s easy to become depressed about it. I know I do. But God intends our failure to drive us to him and rest on his provision. He has given us everything we need for life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3). This is where it seems the hardest for us to follow.
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I think you have confessed something that we all (or at least most of us) are wrestling with. Thanks for articulaitng it so clearly. Apart from our respective professions and family composition, I might have well been reading about myself in your post. Well done, Michael.
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I am glad to know I am not alone in this..this post is absolutely timely for me. I read recently that the man spoken of in Romans 7 is not the believer..that threw a wrench in things for me..
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Thanks for the post Michael.
Your “new” definition of sanctification reminded me of something Dallas Willard wrote in his book “Renovation of the Heart”, it said to the effect (and I’m paraphrasing now), “the greatest saints are not those who use the least grace, but those who use the most…to them grace is like breath.”
I think this is the sort of thing Jesus was talking about in John 15 when He said, “apart from me you can do nothing.” The problem is none of us really believe that, and I think (in agreement with you) that the this concept (coming to the realization of our constant and continual neediness upon God) is what the process of santification is all about. It just takes a lot of “junk” (from our perpsective) to get us to actually believe it.
Thank you for the wonderful ministry that you have been faithful and obedient in even through the trials and valleys you have faced and continue to face.
Blessings,
-Joshua
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Good stuff Michael! I found myself saying Yes Yes that’s me, that’s my experience exactly. However I think revival would surely come if we could all stand up in our local assemblies and confess these things to one another in addition to confessing them on the relatively safe and somewhat anonymous forum of the Internet. It is when the whole assembly facing God in His Word and then truly facing each other that the Spirit moves. But I tremble at even the thought of doing that!
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Just today I’ve been listening to John Piper teaching on the dynamics of the Christian life, one that is real and authentic. These are the very things M. Paton is lamenting.
I will confess, it is the same items I have lamented in my life. May we all learn – something – from Piper.
http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Seminars/1725_Prayer_Meditation_and_Fasting_Part_1/
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I liked your string of thoughts on sanctification. Actually I am also amazed as the last commentator said with the fact that I heard similar thing both in a sermon and on your blog. Keep up the good work, brother!
http://reformspb.podfm.ru/propoved/53/
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It must be National Doubt Month.
iMonk just reposted a really powerful piece on self-doubt (http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/from-the-classic-imonk-archives-2002-i-have-my-doubts). Even I just hung up from a discussion with my wife about whether Wednesday night church activities were worth the trouble.
What really amazes me is how often terms with (seemingly) clear definitions prove virtually meaningless when faced with Life. Perhaps these lovely abstractions should be avoided or used sparingly and with full recognition that they indeed represent abstractions, not hard, cold realities. Seeing how Christianity in particular is filled with such powerful, poetic language, it is a shame that believers are not more often brought along in their faith in full knowledge of the dangers that lay even in the words they use.
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Calvin would be proud!
“Sanctification n. The process of Christian development that has more to do with how dependent you have become on the Lord, not necessarily about being “good.” ”
Awesome…God’s soverignty is always shown more important theologically than man’s choice.
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I agree Michael.
Church is getting harder. I think its because “church” is not what its supposed to be.
My church is not bad overall, but frequently it seems like going to church involves:
–listening to music that is not as good as on the radio but tries to be
–listening to a sermon that is either a lite version of what I already know or is just wrong
–some public praying that sounds more like preaching in prayer form
–then we leave
that can’t be what its supposed to be like. I know I’m supposed to be worshipping…..but is this worship?
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Fantastic post.
I long to ponder it and spend time in communion with the Lord.
Thanks, yet again…
Keep it real!
Mike
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Michael, I’ll sit in the ashes with you, but unlike Job’s “friends” I’ll just say nothing other than I CAN RELATE!! You’re singing my song, and hanging out in Psalms seems to help (sometimes).
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Truth Sleuth wrote:
> I want to create a bumper sticker that says
> “the closer I get to the Lord the more I realize
> how much I suck.”
LOL on that one! I’d buy one.
Nick wrote:
> Do you think there could be something to men
> not wanting to go to church?
A friend of mine has a theory about this which he wrote on here:
http://www.ittybittycomputers.com/Truth/GodOfTruth.htm
I tend to think Tom is right about the source of the gender issue, and the bigger problem it reveals.
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Wonderful, Michael. I particularly like your, “Sanctification has more to do with how often you are broken before him, not your stoic ability to deal with pain. Sanctification has more to do with a recognition of your weaknesses than of your strengths.” Isn’t THAT the truth!
Your thoughts about sanctification resonate well with something I read by Thomas Keating who wrote the book “Manifesting God.” On page 104 he writes about God, “He expects us to make mistakes. He gives us millions (indeed billions and trillions) of chances. If anything, God likes our weaknesses because it enables him to exercise his infinite mercy. When Paul prayed earnestly to be delivered from a particularly annoying weakness, God said to him, ‘My grace is enough for you, for power is made perfect in weakness.’ (2 Corinthians 12:9) According to this text, we do God a great favor by accepting our weakness. So there is no reason to be saddened by the fact that we do not measure up to our idealized image of ourselves and of how we should perform in the spiritual journey. That obviously is an ego trip.”
We are not perfect, but we are greatly loved by God…so loved that he died for us. I believe that God “enjoys” us!
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Yes indeed michael, the struggle continues. Both as the bible says I am sanctified ( made holy ) and I am being made holy, and you helped by pointing out that it’s more about being dependant and recognising that, and I would add, a growth in humility, and not neceesarily about being good.
I always have tightly held onto rom 7 to help me in my weakness. Yet an illustration has also helped me. As I draw closer to the light ( Christ ) I more easily see my own wretchedness and sin, and therfore what my Lord needs to deal with. Something that has also to be balanced with the wonder at God’s grace towards me in making me his child!
In Christ,
Gary
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Chad (your quote — Church is getting harder. I think its because “church” is not what its supposed to be. ) — is right on target.
However, if we recognize this and use it as an excuse to blow church off, how many others will not see — how many others will not hear? If all sound and learned Christians think church is irrelevant, then the church will deteriorate even further. Someone has to stand up. The church is a collective whole and when some of the pieces are missing, others are hurt.
That’s why I keep pushing myself to go — even when I don’t want to and I’d rather pull out my favorite theology book and sit in a soft chair and ingest it all selfishly.
Geoff (post #5) also makes a good point.
Another thought, Michael — age has a way of helping to understand the hard things like this. You are in the whirlwind of deciphering it all right now
That’s a good thing!
I’ve heard The Gospel Mystery of Sanctification: Growing in Holiness by Living in Union with Christ is a good book…..and since I love Sproul, I’m going to have to read Sproul’s Pleasing God where he covers sanctificaiton.
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Thanks for the honest post. I’d love to say that being 68 brings sanctification as you originally thought but alas it doesn’t appear to be so.
Last week I lead a weekend retreat for men finally able to at least look at how participating in an abortion had affected their life.
Guess I should have but did not anticipate the spiritual warfare that I would experience. Doubt, personal failure and a host of emotions almost made me back out at the last minute. But God prevailed and I hung in there because this is His work and He is the one who empowers and overcomes.
I’m with you Michael. I don’t understand it all. And neither of us truly will till we are with the Father. But I do understand reconciliation and restoration. Those issues go beyond my behavior.
We get so focused on behavior we forget the character and sovereignty of God and His love for us beyond our actions or condition of the heart at any point in time.
The Lord blessed the men attending in a supernatural way as only the Holy Spirit can do. But the weekend was really made for “me” to reflect on His goodness and mercy toward me. Unworthy but accepted!
God has used you to bless us and it won’t stop because you are imperfect! Grace to you, Brother!
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How timely. How appropriate. How correct. I’m right there with you. Not because iIwant to be but because I have no other place to go. I’m rethinking a lot these days not because I want to but because I’m compelled. Thanks for the reminder that we all have so far to go in our journey’s into what God has for us. Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, what God has prepared for those that love him.
Blessings
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I think this is why Jesus kept it simple: “…’You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.’” Matthew 22:37-40
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Michael,
I am just grateful that you can so honestly bare your soul for us to see. I have struggled with these same issues all my Christian life. Everyday, more and more, I see myself in Paul’s words: “For I don’t understand what I am doing. For I do not do what I want – instead, I do what I hate.”
I do not deserve God’s mercy. I don’t feel like I have been sanctified. And, the more I know the human condition, the more I realize we will never be good in God’s eyes.
I believe, like the one who entered the synagogue to confess his sins and was sanctified, that sanctification is like being painted white by someone else so that our true colors are not seen when judgment comes.
The only thing us Christians should dare declare about ourselves is that we recognize that we are sinners.
We are hopeless fools if we think we will ever reach a semblance of goodness. Like Paul said, “Now, we see through a glass, darkly …”
God’s mercy is our only hope. Jesus’ death on the cross is our only salvation.
Maybe we should just concentrate in bringing more people to the realization that God loves us and forgives us undeservingly, as bad as we are.
Maybe sanctification has nothing to do with righteousness. Only a cleansing, a covering with blood, like the Passover.
Undeserved, like Paul, doing wrong when we would like to do right, but loved nonetheless by our Creator and His Son, Jesus Christ, who died to pay our debt.
Thanks. You don’t know how much good can come out of what you think is a “not so shiny” confession. I, because of what you wrote, feel that, maybe, I am not alone and that I am not failing God in a way he disapproves of completely. Maybe there is hope for me too. After all, He knows us, He made us, and He loves us. Don’t ask me why.
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Micheal
Sounds to me like you are really understanding sanctification? You need Christ more than you ever imagined before and that is sanctifying in itself. God resists the proud, but gives Grace to the humble!
Praying for and with ya!
I feel the same so very often, but; will never stop running the race, I look for the Crown! Then I will not be empty handed when Crowns are thrown at His feet!
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Hi Michael,
There’s lots of Christians who undergo doubt, some suffer depression their whole lives (whole families of ministers sometimes do), some leave the fold after trying to overcome such doubts.
All I can say is that yes, life doesn’t get easier as you grow older. And I left the fold knowing full well that generally speaking, Christians were not superior to other folks, but more like everyone else than they are often willing to admit.
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Edward,
I don’t mean to put you on the spot, but your comment has intrigued me. Do you ever doubt that leaving the faith was the right thing?
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Awesome! My current struggle with sanctification – how much do I really want to be conformed to the image of Christ? Eighty percent of my life is in the service of others – and sometimes this just bothers me. There never seems to be time for what I want to do! I get impatient and irritable. Do I really want to be sanctified? Christ gave 100% of His life away without complaint. Am I really willing to give it ALL away? What will this mean? What will this look like? Won’t this keep me from doing “great” things for God? But the truly great thing is to be sanctified – is this really what I want? Yes, it is a struggle.
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Michael, you asked me, “I don’t mean to put you on the spot, but your comment has intrigued me. Do you ever doubt that leaving the faith was the right thing?”
You’re not putting me on the spot. Leaving the Christian faith for me was part of a nearly decade-long process, rather than a conscious decision to reject Christian doctrines and dogmas. I had been dialoging with two former Christian friends who were both quite conservative in their early 20s and had studied Christian apologetics and theology. We met and talked some and continued to dialogue for over a thousand snail mailed pages, exchanged book lists, and I began reading some of the works they suggested, but it took many snail mail exchanges before I even got that far.
There came a time when I could no longer see some people as “damned” and others as “saved,” but rather I saw genuine kindness and love in people whom I knew did not share my religious beliefs, doctrines and dogmas. I saw compassion in Buddhists and Hindus. I saw it in Mormons. I saw it in universalist Chrsitians, and in mystics, agnostics, atheists.
I also saw all of us as suffering individuals, each of us fighting our own daily battles, sharing all the same basic fears, such as fears that others might think negatively of us, or find us less pleasing as friends, relationship fears, depression, loneliness, mind numbing repetitiveness in life or on the job , fears of sickness and death, etc.
And though Christianity claimed we would always have a friend in Jesus and we would be God’s friend and live forever, such claims appeared difficult to judge when you stepped back and looked at all the evidence. I mean, even statistical studies find that having a dog raises your chances of living a longer healthier life than going to church. At least that’s what I recall noticing in one study. All the benefits of Christianity seemed to be not highly significant (at least visibly in this life) than things people can also come by naturally, such as friends, pets, etc.
And no doubt once you’re ensconced in a particular community that revolves around shared beliefs then being involved in such a community enhances one’s quality of life in the same basic ways that all communities do, no matter what type of community it may be.
The other part of my “leaving process” involved studying the Bible, the history of diverse Christian groups and beliefs, other religions, philosophy, psychology, sociology, biology, geology, etc.
I can no longer even imagine that the Bible may be inerranty true (nor even inspired) from cover to cover. Parts of it are inspiring, but in the same sense parts of other books are. I seek the best in every person and every book, based on everything I’ve learned in my life, both experientially and via books.
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I can’t tell you how very refreshing to read your piece on sanctification.
Just to add one more aspect, sanctification is being gut honest with the Lord. This allows me to grieve over the fact that He allowed sin to come into the world and at the same time find assurance that He was graceful enough to allow us to choose.
I have questioned my salvation as well. My fuse is shorter, my patience has grown thinner. I am impatient with things that don’t translate into eternal purposes.
Perhaps the closer we move toward God, the more we taste His eternal sweetness and realize what a deep contrast there is between here and where He is. My soul aches for holiness and goodness.
Thanks so much for writing your honest thoughts.
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I am very close to where you are… VERY close. I don’t know if it will help, but I had a few things occur to me that are really helping me push through all this.
The first, and this was a shocker to me, I AM a good person. (That has taken me decades to say out loud.) HOWEVER, I am only a good person because of my relationship with God (I refer to the whole Trinity here.)
The second which is related, is that the part of ourselves that we refuse to release control to God is, in fact, the worst of ourselves. We focus on that part as ‘us’ and don’t think about the rest as ‘God’s’. It was just something that was freely (or in some cases grudgingly) given. It’s like when you put gas in the car and that sludge and gunk builds up. Well, the rest of the tank is gas (Christ) but we haven’t gone through and tried to flush out that last bit of tarpy goo.
I think we, as Christians, spend so much time looking at all the bad things that still persist in our lives (mainly because we can’t give up control) that we fail to see how Christ is in control of the majority. I hoping that if I can focus on what God is doing in my life, then I can look back and realize how unnecessary the bad, which I don’t want to release, is.
Pray without ceasing! That sounds simple, but right now, my prayer goes something like this: “Lord – more than anything i love you, but right now, I just want to throw my hands up in the air in frustration. I’m tired of this fight with myself. This bit that I cannot release has a terrible hold on me. Sometimes, I am a hypocrite walking into my Sunday school class and leading the discussion or teaching about how we should follow you. Right now, there is a lesson to be learned, my will to be re-broken, or maybe I’m just to wait…. I don’t know which is the right one, or if it’s something else, or all of it, but I want you to know that I appreciate all you do for me. I cling to you because you do love me and more than that. I know it.”
OK… this is rambling and I was suppose to keep this short.
I will pray for you, my brother.
– L
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Thanks Edward,
I agree that there are people out there of all varieties who are kind and generous. It is part of the shared human pathos it seems. From my perspective, it comes from God.
The shared experience of doubt is present in all of us. And although my post was not really about doubt, I was intriged, knowing your story, by reading your comment. I was wondering if you ever doubt that you made the right decision leaving Christianity. I am not setting up for anything, believe me. Just curious.
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Are you truly born again?,it is never good to be presumptuos about our condition.
It seems you have a lot of ‘I’s in your post which is never good.
Maybe you might find some help from reading John Bunyans account,
‘Grace abounding to the chief of sinners’ which details some of the tribulations and struggles a TRUE christian experiences.
The devil never touches his own men,their goods are in perfect peace.
He only ever attacks people who have a work of God started in them,which by the way is not started by our willingness to come to Him for we could never will it.Putting your hand in the air and saying i will come to Jesus never makes a christian,it is God that must first come to us and awake us to our lost and awful condition.
I hope this may be of some help to someone in any case.
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From my own experience I so far conclude that in this life it means “set apart for reconstruction” and in this very evil world reconstruction is a continuing process because flaws are uncovered by the changing environment and stress tests.
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I don’t agree with your definition of sanctification, but I agree that the Christian being sanctified will tend to exhibit those qualities. Otherwise, if I agreed with your definition, then I would have to say that Jesus is sanctified because he knows his weaknesses, which doesn’t work.
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Finally, an honest Christian- or at least it is an attempt at honesty, which is more than I have seen in a long time. I weary of the phony moralizing. As if there is any person that has escaped the flesh? Yes, let us all pretend that we no longer sin… thats right, something we “used” to deal with- not so, something we shall never escape in this life! And yet we crush other men with an iron claw. Lets get it straight, there is no argument against Christian morality, but there is a very serious argument against a Christians attitude in executing judgment. Tread softly my brothers because I am not the only one with sin.
E. D. Faulkin
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Your first definition of sanctification was a little Joel Osteenish, so granted some re-thinking seemed due, but your second definition does not sit any better with me. It smells of defeat. It is one thing to submit and gain victory over the flesh by allowing the Spirit to overtake and “defeat the flesh” and it’s another to say Christ is sanctifying you by your reliance on him and yet your behavior is still bad and “you are defeated” I’m thinking your in that part of the race where someone needs to shout you on..Get up and run! Move it! Move it!
I don’t think you can redefine and re-adjust on experience, can you? Although it’s understandable and we can all relate to the part of the race where your lungs hurt and your sucking for air ..I don’t see anywhere in scripture where my footsteps vanish and this is the part where Christ carries me. He sustains me , He strengthens me, He leads me, I can’t find the part where he carries me. And I can’t find the part where it says as you grow in him you will become meaner, more cynical and depressed. Sanctification has a lot to do with obedience and enduring, you don’t just reach a certain crest of a hill and think.. wow! I’m glad that’s over! You don’t just put on love once and are done, you don’t just put off the old man once and are done…there are lots of hills in this race. Count the cost and all that good stuff
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It seems to me that the reason Edward T. Babinski “left the fold” may be the same reason many of us “in the fold” resonate with CMP’s post. We’ve lost sight of truth! ThatRockWasChrist’s comment #31 reclaimed my mind with Matthew 22:37-40.
I’ve come to believe that the modern American church has been infiltrated with a false gospel of relationshipism. Adopting a (non-biblical) relationshipistic view of Christianity rather than a truth-centered biblical view seems to lead to these sorts of struggles. Relationshipism is a wide path out of the sheep fold for those who press it to its logical conclusions. Most people don’t press it that far. My friend Tom explains it better here:
http://www.ittybittycomputers.com/Truth/GodOfTruth.htm
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“I’ve come to believe that the modern American church has been infiltrated with a false gospel of relationshipism.”
Wow. What a thunderbolt!
Do you mean both vertical and horizontal relationships?
I looked at the first page of the link. Very intriguing. Of course, since I’m a staunch complementarian, I’d agree that the leaven of unbiblical feminism has wrought vast destruction upon the church, upon families, and upon individuals.
Thanks for sharing.
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Cadis – re your reply where you say “i can’t find the part where it says as you grow in Him you become meaner, etc” I don’t think that was what was intended. I have personally come to the conclusion that I am a poor judge of my own growth. If I say “I can see over the last year I have drawn closer to Christ” how do I measure that? By the number of times I have not done what I should not have ever done in the first place, or by the good that I did do that I might not have done before? By a subjective feeling? I think that just as grown-ups often say to children “Wow you have really grown in the last year!” so too our growth in grace is best judged by others who see us and interact with us on a regular basis. I think what MIchael is saying is what all saints have confessed from time immemorial – that in His blazing light we tend not to see our own goodness but rather our own sin/need. And it would stand to reason that the ‘closer’ we get to Him the more that we see what we or the world would once have considered a small thing becomes big. In a dim room it is hard to pick out what needs washing. But of course, were it not for His love and grace and mercy we would all be undone.
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I think that a lot of people leave the Christian fold for the same kind of reasons that Ed did. I actually think the reason underlying all that Ed said is that many Christians are learning and teaching a Christianity that is “too small.” When you read the beginning of John’s Gospel, you read about Jesus, “The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.” So God gives light to “every man.” And Jesus told his disciples that some people were going to be surprised to find themselves in heaven, but Jesus pointed out that they loved people and took care of them and that is what he expected. (Matthew 25:31-40).
Michael told me many months back on this blog that I am an “inclusivist.” It doesn’t make me a non-Christian, but it makes me a Christian that can live with myself, my Christian faith. And it doesn’t mean that I believe all people are “godly” people. All babies are born firmly within the love of God and whether they die without being baptised or not, they will be with God. Anything else is ludicrous because otherwise we would say that humans are more loving than God and that is not possible. But as humans grow, they choose to go their own way and not rely on God for all that they do. Some folks, because of the way they were raised, would be greatly challenged to even know God and his ways. But Jesus is alive and he has conquered all evil and is there to take in anyone who asks. Like the parable of the prodigal son and his father, as soon as people turn towards God, God “runs” right to the person, embracing them in his total love.
In regard to the Bible, I see the books as the stories of human beings as they are coming to know God in more fullness. I see men in the Old Testament particularly doing what they want to do and saying it was God’s will. I cannot see the “Abba” that Jesus prays to wanting to have babies bashed against the rocks. Jesus came to show us what God is like and now we know. He came to save us from the evil in the world which is always trying to take away our peace and our joy.
I know I am opening myself up to criticism, but be aware that I am not a teacher, a preacher, an author so what I say and think does not effect a lot of people. But if my “form” of Christianity can help someone stay “within the fold” that’s a good thing.
And for anyone who does not know, I am Catholic.
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So very thankful that you dived into this topic head first. Santification IS a whole lot messier than our churches have wanted to deal with. The modern megachurch movement, while contributing much of value to reorienting the purpose of church toward evangelism, is poorly suited to deal with this one, since “scale” is almost non-existent in this area. You can provide the best materials and curricula on the planet, but “learning” on it’s own is simply ineffective for the vast majority of people. Day-to-day wrestling with the issues of life and learning how to apply Biblical wisdom to everything you do is where the gains are made.
Discipleship perhaps is about finding for the spiritually immature worthy models for imitation and ensuring there’s sustained, life-on-life contact between them and strong, Biblically mature individuals. In a culture of choice, mobility and ever more-self selected social and cultural environments, the odds are stacked against us, i think. I don’t know of any easy answers. Right now, I’m settling on making a difference a handful of lives at a time just by mentoring.
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