This is a very interesting post with a lot of great insight. Out of curiosity, do you have any thoughts on the nouthetic counseling developed by Jay Adams’? (Maybe you have written about it, and I just have not seen it.) Christian counseling vs. nouthetic counseling is slowly becoming a debated topic at the two churches I attend in Ohio. If you ever have the desire to post your thoughts on it, it would be very interesting to hear what you have to say on it.

God is not weak. WE are the ones who lack faith for things we need to ask God for in our failing physical bodies. HOWEVER, I strongly believe that we must do the best we can in this life and find that perfect and acceptable Will of God.

I believe that Job said it right when he said, in chapter 13, verse 15, “Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him; I will surely defend my ways to his face.”

I will defend why I am using medication right now, even though it may not be what God wills for me to do. But, until I get a revelation/response from God that leads me in a more perfect way, I will continue taking my medicine to control what I believe to be clinical physical brain problems. To be honest though, I have MUCH more faith in God now, after having been through previous medicinal hells, and less faith in HUMAN doctors. But, I am not a Christian Scientist and since the brain is an organ, I am doing my best to control a physical problem using chemicals that God has provided scientists with to make medicines with.

Is it right? Is it wrong? I do not know with 100% certainty but I will surely defend my ways before Him. Day to day, I still need to trust in Him and follow Him no matter what because HE alone knows the best plans for me.

We all live and die before God, therefore, we must continue to follow God through and in Jesus Christ.

As far as the topic of suicide goes, I have attempted it before. I have confessed and repented before God, but I can’t say I won’t try it again in the future. I have FAITH that I will not because I am now FOLLOWING Jesus daily and my eyes have been opened enough to see what a great sin it is to kill ones-self (not judging here, just stating a fact). Clinical depression is as close to a literal hell as I would EVER want to come close to. It feels as if God is no longer there and there is a murky, black darkness (a mental black hole) that sets in and your mind is drawn to it almost irresistibly.

Now I know that God is ALWAYS there, because if He were not, then we would not EXIST. So although we can use rational thinking to disprove lies and distortions our mind, or satan, can throw at us, sometimes the mind is so weak (lack of serotonin? Brain damage? Genetics? Lack of faith? No Holy Spirit?!), that it is almost impossible to look away from the darkness. Nietzsche described that if one looks into an abyss, the abyss looks into you. Nietzsche was probably describing clinical depression, but the fact that he berated Christ and said God was ‘dead’ did not help him later in his years when he finally went insane.

I do believe that if we accept Jesus and FOLLOW him so closely that we feel his presence that we can overcome anything and everything. It is just OUR lack of faith that prevents us. Notice that when Peter took his eyes off of Jesus, he fell into the water he was previously walking on! His FAITH failed him, not God’s.

I’m sure this was not intentional, but the one thing you did not mention was wrestling through this problem in prayer until God gave you an insight, a direction, an answer, or a word. You also did not mention applying the word of God to the problem in such a way that your faith grows stronger.

Having had a psychotic breakdown, I know the drug route and all that that’s about. On the other hand, I know the spiritual route which is not always fast, not always fun, not always clear, and not always what anyone wants to do. I don’t know about the rest of you, but there are times when I literally get in bed and pray for hours on end until God speaks to me about what is going on and tells me what I need to know to win this battle. Along with that, I search the Word for encouragement, and I claim those promises which apply to my life.

I also ask my closest Christian friends to pray with me (according to God’s word of two or more asking anything in Jesus’ name) and I actually choose by an act of my will to believe (whether I feel it or not) that God is going to answer, give me answers, solve the problem, make me feel better, and resolve whatever conflict I’m in.

Surprisingly, it is not easy. Sometimes the battle rages for weeks. Sometimes it’s only hours. Yes, I have suffered depression, high anxiety, dissociation, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, to name a few. And yes, I have done this way of finding help for many, many years because God is faithful and He never lets me down. I find that every victory comes by faith and while many of you may not want to hear this or may feel that I’m judging or condemning you for not having enough faith, that is not what I’m saying. I often go into these battles with little faith, but the battle builds my faith as I search God’s word more and begin to believe it. Faith is believing what you don’t see, and yes, it is hard to do at times, but God is faithful.

I believe that this is God’s way. You cannot “prove” that depression or mental illness is caused by an imbalance. It doesn’t show in tests. There is no test. Although the brain itself may, in an image, look different, it does not prove it’s a chemical imbalance.

I really encourage anyone who struggles with this to test God and see if what He says is true. Is he all sufficient? I know He is because I’ve gone into the pit and been brought out again by God.

If God can’t bring light to depression, if He can’t bring us through it without the help of man, then what kind of God is he? I don’t believe in a God who is powerless in “some” areas. I really don’t. And I don’t because I’ve had to trust him in some really bad situations and although they were not things I wanted to go through and they were not things that were instantly fixed, I was forced by God to go through them and to trust Him and He never let me down. Doctors, on the other hand, have let me down more times than I can count and they missed several problems in my body…

Suicide is a tragic event. It robs us of a loved one and potentially steals forever the joys of others. Let’s not honor it as an act of heroics but call it what it probably is, self murder.

I pray no one here has to witness the after effects of losing a loved one to suicide. The emotions of the survivor’s, their struggles, their fist pounding anger at God, there never ending weeping, their cry of death upon themselves all rips your heart out. The stress and pressures on those of us trying console and comfort are enormous and never ending.

Only by God’s grace and His love have all of us been able to survive. Praise God!

I think some do commit suicide for what they see as altruistic reasons (for example those who wish to cease being a burden) as warped as that may be.

It seems to me there are some crossed wires here as people are all trying to defend the feelings of others. Some want to avoid the horrible condemnations of those who have committed suicide; others wish to protect those they hurt. Both are probably good motives but I think there can be some consensus here.

Perhaps we can agree that suicide is tragic, but the person who does this is no worse off than any of us. If he is a Christian, he is still in Christ victorious over that final death and all his enemies, including himself. Thing is, we all die as the result of sin-the suicide is just a little more direct. So there we are in the same boat; none of us heroes, but forgiven.

It seems to me that the recorded incidences of suicide in the Bible, (one we would call an “assisted suicide”) were all done for what appeared to be very personal or selfish reasons. I don’t see any listed that were in any way done as a sacrifice for others. Here is a link with the list I worked from: http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question28361.html

If there are other recorded suicides in the Bible, I have missed them. I believe the same 7 were listed at other sites besides this “fun trivia” site.

mbaker,

I have a hunch that most of the folks that are speaking here of people that commit suicide having no resemblance to Jesus sacrifice are looking at it from a similar perspective as the one taken by CMP in this short article regarding his sister’s death: http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/01/for-those-considering-suicide/comment-page-1/#comment-34878

Those that want relief from their own pain above all else and commit suicide to accomplish it, aren’t resembling Jesus sacrifice for others in any way that I can see.

In response to Dr. Mike’s comment directly above, you can even see a twisted form of religious suicidal duty in the Muslim Jihadists who seek martyrdom by blowing themselves up. THAT is Anti-Christ. It is a backwards mentality of sacrificial duty, not the Christ-like sacrificial duty of the God-honoring Christian.

Christ is the Lamb of God, slain for us and made sin for us. It is/was God who decided to sacrifice Himself, i.e., take on the full weight of sin (those who crucified Christ where gentiles AND jews reveling in their blood lust at the time).

Jesus did NOT commit suicide, he allowed mankind to kill him so that all of sin was placed upon the sacrifice, the symbolism is extremely important and infinitely deep if you read closely the sacrificial system designed by God in the O.T. In other words, it PLEASED God to put Christ to death to SAVE MANKIND!

Also, if a mere human claimed to be God and then was crucified, that would have been the END of the story. God, however, RESURRECTED Jesus, showing that man and satan could not defeat God and His plan for human salvation. God, in effect, placed His stamp of approval on Jesus as the Messiah, a sacrifice for all mankind fulfilling the O.T. sacrificial system of atonement. If you consider Jesus Christ committed suicide, then you can also believe that a bull, goat, dove, or lamb committed suicide as well. There is an infinite difference between sacrifice and suicide, one is self-serving, the other is un-selfish. It is up to you to decide which one is which. If you believe it was selfish suicide, do you then believe that the man who jumps on an enemy’s grenade to save his platoon a suicide?

The ways of God are foolish to mankind, but to those who believe, it is infinite WISDOM.

Sorry guys, can’t agree. Sometimes people get so down on themselves, for whatever reason, they honestly think they will be doing others a favor by ending it all.

That’s why I don’t condemn suicide victims at all. Just because Judas committed suicide, because he had such guilt for the terrible wrong for selling out Jesus (and I’m sure some folks can justify that because he wasn’t the elect), I’m afraid I can’t universally apply that, at least solely on that basis.

Perhaps some of you more enlightened folks can show me some other relevant scriptures.

Does committing suicide to end your own pain bear any resemblance to Jesus sacrifice for us on the cross? I certainly see none.