"The Trinity is Like 3-in-1 Shampoo". . . And Other Stupid Statements

Alternate title: “Trinitarian Heresy 101”

“The doctrine of the Trinity is like an egg: three parts, one thing.” Ever heard that? How about this, “The doctrine of the Trinity is like a three leaf clover: three leaves, one clover.” Or how about THIS, “The doctrine of the Trinity is like water: three forms (ice, steam, liquid) one substance.” But the greatest I ever heard was by a guy in one of my classes. He said that he thought that the Trinity was like 3-in-1 shampoo: three activities, one substance.”

Stupid statements. Creative, but stupid. Don’t use them. Any of them. Ever.

Explanation coming… Hang with me.

Last week I taught a group of kids about the doctrine of the Trinity here at the Credo House as part of our Theology for Kids series. The ages were anywhere from 7 to 13. Though I regularly teach this subject to adults, this was the first time that I taught the doctrine of the Trinity to kids. I was surprised that it went well. It is confusing enough for adults, how much more for kids?

Teaching the Trinity, I have found, is more about giving basic principles of what it is and then shooting down illustrations about what it is not. Proper Trinitarianism is about a delicate balance between the unity and diversity in the Godhead. Christians believe in one God, i.e., one essence, who eternally exists in three separate persons, all of whom are equal.

We often employ illustrations that help us to make the ineffable, effable, the abstract, concrete. But when it comes to the nature of God, especially with regard to the Doctrine of the Trinity, illustrations should only be used to show what the Trinity is not.

Let me list the three major heresies or departures from orthodoxy with regard to the Trinity:

1. Modalism: The belief that God is one God who shows himself in three different ways, sometimes as the Father, sometimes the Son, and sometimes the Holy Spirit. It describes God in purely functional terms. When he is saving the world on the cross, he is called Jesus. When he is convicting the world of sin, he is called Holy Spirit, and when he is creating the world, he is called Father. The error here is that this is contrary to what we believe: one God who eternally exists in three persons, not modes of functionality. It is not one God with three names, but one God in three persons.

2. Tritheism: The belief that we have three Gods, all who share a similar nature, but not the exact same nature. In this, the nature of God is either distinguished or divided, which destroys the unity of God. We don’t believe in three persons who share in a species called “God,” but three persons who share in an identical, united nature.

3. Subordinationalism: This is a subset of tritheism, but deserves its own category. In other words, if you are a subordinationalist, you are also a tritheist by definition, even if you don’t recognize it. The subordinationalist says that there is one God in three persons, but the essence of each person exists in a hierarchy. For example, many believe that God the Father is the greatest and the most powerful. Coming in second is God the Son, followed by the second runner-up, the Holy Spirit. Orthodox trinitarianism confesses an essential equality among all the members of the Godhead. None are greater in essence than the other.

Here is a “Trinitarianism Heresy Test Chart” I have created. Keep this by your bed.


  • If equality is denied, on the opposite side it points to subordinationalism.
  • If diversity is denied, the result is modalism.
  • If unity is denied, the result is tritheism (or polytheism —many gods).

With this in mind, let me now cover the “stupid statements” and why they don’t pass the test:

1. The Trinity is like 3-in-1 shampoo. This can only point to modalism or tritheism. It is modalistic if you are saying the shampoo performs three functions, yet is one substance. But you can also break down the various elements that perform each function and see them separately. That is tritheism since all of the elements are not the same. They may work together to perform a specific goal, but they are not really the same substance.

2. The Trinity is like an egg. This is most definitely tritheism. While the egg is one, each of the substances that makes up the parts (shell, white stuff, and yoke), are most definitely distinct. The yoke is completely separate in nature from the shell.

3. The Trinity is like water. This is a modalistic illustration. Ice, steam, and liquid are examples of the same nature which at one time or another has a particular mode of existence. Sometimes it is liquid, sometimes it is ice, and sometimes it is steam. God is not sometimes Son, sometimes Father, and sometimes Spirit. He is eternally each, always at the same time.

4. The Trinity is like a three leaf clover. This is a form of tritheism. Each leaf of the clover is a separate leaf. It does not share in the same nature as the other leafs, but only has a similar nature. In the Trinity, each member shares in the exact same nature.

5. The Trinity is like a man who is simultaneously a father, son, and husband. This is an often used illustration, but it only serves to present a modalistic understanding of God that is false. Father, son, and husband only describe various functions of one person. Each function cannot exist in a simultaneous relationship with each other, can’t talk to each other, and cannot exist in an eternal relationship with each other. 

6. The Trinity is like a person who is one, yet has a spirit, soul, and a body. This one, like the first, can commit either a tritheistic or modalistic error, but cannot be used to illustrate the orthodox definition of the Trinity. It is modalistic in that the spirit, soul, and body are three functions of one conscience or person. But it can also be tritheistic when one considers that the spirit is not the exact same nature as the body (or the soul if you are a trichotomist—another lesson).

In the end, I do not believe that there are any true to life illustrations that can or should be used to teach or describe the Trinity. The Trinity is not a contradiction (i.e. one God who eternally exists as three separate Gods), but it is most definitely a paradox (a truth that exists in tension).

This graph is helpful in describing the Trinity. It is called the “Shield of the Trinity.”

 It is always best to remember that the Father is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and the Son is God, but they are not each other.

One more thing. I often tell my students that if they say, “I get it!” or “Now I understand!” that they are more than likely celebrating the fact that they are a heretic! When you understand the biblical principles and let the tensions remain without rebuttal, then you are orthodox. When you solve the tension, you have most certainly entered into one of the errors that we seek to avoid.

Confused? Good! That is just where you need to be.

153 Responses to “"The Trinity is Like 3-in-1 Shampoo". . . And Other Stupid Statements”

  1. I guess the best way to describe the Trinity is like the color triad. Red, blue, and green are various shades of color yet they are all different manifestations of the same white light from which all color is made. The colors we see are the entities of the Trinity yet when they come together they form the pure white light, from which all the colors emanate.

  2. Ohhh I have to ask a question…

    What about C. S. Lewis’ analogy of the trinity? After explaining that his analogy is weak, he said to imagine trying to explain what a cube is to a square living in a 2-D world.

    I always liked that analogy. It says to me: yes it is totally possible, but not graspable.

    Is this one stupid, too? Or can I keep it as my hazy analogy of the Trinity?

  3. matthew macarthur September 13, 2012 at 8:47 am

    The main reason it is so hard for anyone to expain the trinity doctrine is because it a false teaching of the 325.AD council of Nicaea. The first church believed and was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. The council of 325 and the ones following get credit for what Satan and the Pharisees and Sadducees tried to do after the death of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ; and after His spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost. That was to make them (His disciples, the ones He spent three years teaching and showing them and preparing them for the building of His church) to stop preaching, baptizing, healing and casting out of unclean spirits in His name. They” the religious leaders of that time” the ones who killed our Lord Jesus, wanted to stop the spread of this great gospel. Why is it so hard to understand that the God of creation and the Lord of glory, took a robe of flesh for Himself. “for God is a spirit, and they that worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” Then took that flesh to the cross and died for my sins, for without the sheading of blood there is NO remission of sin. Without that wonderful blood that was shead on the cross, I would be forever lost!! The trinitiy doctrine is not in the Bible, and the Bible only teaches that God is One!! Det 6:4 Hear O Israel the Lord our God is One Lord. This verse I really like because it blows your misguided attempt to prove that the son was in heaven all the time. Det 32:39 See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no God with Me. James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well; the devils also believe and tremble. The change that the 325 council made to baptizum is a pure adulterated twist of the truth. Matthew 28:19 Jesus told them to go into all the world baptizing in the name,” singlar not plural and not titles” of the father and the son and holy spirit, and that great name is JESUS!! There is none other name, givin among men whereby we must be saved!!

  4. matthew macarthur September 14, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    It is good to see that some things never change, like the way the truth makes those who believe a lie run and hide! What the matter, did what I have to say make you think? Is that why you just took my post down without even an answer? You know if you read the Bible, and forget about mans way of twisting it you’ll find that the trinity doesnt work. The only way that you can explain the Godhead is to believe ” that He is”. The way they have tried to explain the trinity will never make sence. God is God and He stands alone, He doesnt need help from anyone other than Himself. The way you try to explain makes God weak, that He is not the almighty; that He would push on someone else the dirty deed of the cross. He wouldnt and He didnt, but what He did was to put on a robe of flesh and take that body, “the only begotten” and allowed them to lie about it, make fun of it, spit on it, beat it, whip it, then He carried that cross up Golgotha hill, where He allowed them to hammer nails into His hands and feet; and then drop Him in a hole to watch Him die. When they could not wait any longer they stuck a spear in His side, so that the water and blood would pour on the ground. My God is not weak or afraid, He is the Almighty God!! In the form of man called Jesus, that is His name!

  5. @ Matthew Macarthur…you need to remember that when the Hebrews heard Det 6:4 Hear O Israel the Lord our God is One Lord; the word one in that verse is echad which is unified oneness such as one cluster of grapes, one group, one community, etc., and is used many times in reference to God. The word yachid which is the singular one is never used in reference to God. It was only after Jesus and the rise of Christianity that the Jews tried to replace echad with yachid.

  6. Maybe this will help, Matthew.
    The doctrine of Trinity was not an invention of Nicea. It is ancient apostolic doctrine.

  7. @Fawn
    You should be very careful when using the H20 analogy. It could be used to illustrate modalism quite well. The Bible teaches that the Father, Son, and Spirit are in an eternal relationship of loving self-giving. God is not simply three manifestations of one thing (like H20).

    It’s exciting to think that Jesus loves us with the same love that the Father loves Him with. Now we can come to the Father in the name of the Son. We’re taken into the very love of the Trinity through the Spirit! (John 15:9-17; Gal 4:1-7; Rom 8:12-17)

  8. @Jeremiah
    I sort of understand what you’re saying, but I know that God is three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are all separate beings and none of them are the other, however they all have the same nature just as H2O is still H2O in the forms of ice, water and steam.

    Ice can’t be steam, steam can’t be water, yet these things share the same properties of the molecules hydrogen² & oxygen. If someone was wanting to say that these three things can only exist one at a time as only ONE entity at a time and in consecutive order (ice, water, steam) then I could understand how you might think the H2O analogy could represent modalism. But we know from earthly experience that I can have ice in my freezer, run water from the tap and boil water to steam on my stove top and there you have H2O all existing at the same time in 3 different forms.

    In my opinion, you can twist it to show either point of view, just like many twist the Word of God to try and support what they want to believe rather than what the Word of God truly teaches.

  9. matthew macarthur September 17, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    I can give you verse after verse that states that God is God alone, as the matter of the fact thats all it declares. Never once does the Bible state that there are three gods in heaven. No man has seen God at anytime, God is invisible, God is a spirit and they that worship must worship in spirit and in truth. But the robe of flesh that God took for Himself in the form of man Christ Jesus was seen by many, and when we get to heaven that will be the ONLY GOD you will see. If interested in knowing the truth about the God that shed His blood on the cross for your sins, just ask!!

  10. What I would like to know is who or what is the ‘God’ in the center of the Trinity Shield. If I calculate correctly, and, as you say, God is a person, I see four persons in that shield.

    You also say each person is a separate entity; so with that reasoning, you must have three Gods. If the three make up one God, then each cannot be 100% God, for this would make three (300%).

  11. @Kashmir
    What percentage of Jesus is human? And what percentage is Divine?

  12. 100% Human, 100% Divine. And His Divine Human is in ONE person, not two.

    Now who or what is the ‘God’ in the center of the Trinity Shield? It seems to me this ‘God’ is some essence, character, or attribute. Is this correct?

  13. matthew macarthur September 18, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Kashmir is correct, 100% both God and man. The thing that confuses people is that when they read the Bible they dont understand the dual nature of Christ. We see that He speaks and acts in His humanity, he was hungry, he slept, he was afraid, then we see Him act and speak in His deity, He forgave sin. They asked Him who can forgive sin but God, He can! He talk to the wind and sea, and they were calm. He raised the dead, and healed the sick. He said tear down this temple and in three days I’ll raise it up, and we know He was talking about His human body; but we know that the Bible says that God raised Him from the dead. In the garden we see Him praying, God not my will but yours, thats His human side crying out; but later we see Him putting the guards ear back on, God! In Matthew we see Jesus telling them to baptize in the name of the father, son and holy ghost. In Acts we see Peter telling the crowd, when they asked what must we do to be saved. His answer was repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. So who is right, Peter or Jesus, both. The name of God is Jesus, they shall call His name Jesus for He shall save His people from their sin. Father is not a name and neither is son, so when you baptise using those words you’re only repeating what Jesus comanded and not doing what He said. Is it by chance that Jesus said ” before Abraham was, I am”, and was it by chance that God told Moses to tell them “the I am sent you” No. Isaiah 9:6 tells us that ” For unto us a child is born (Jesus) unto us a son is givin, (how is He givin, as a sacrifice for our sins) and the goverment shall be upon His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor. The mighty God, the everlasting father. The prince of peace. Just one more thing, how is the father the father, when in Matthews gospel it declares that what’s in Mary is concieved by the Holy Ghost. Jesus…

  14. matthew macarthur September 18, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    Can’t help myself, I just feel like the world needs to know, that God is God and His name is Jesus!! Isaiah 46:9″ For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.” Zechariah 14:9 And the Lord shall be king over the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and His name one. There is only one name for our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. James2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils believe and they tremble. Deuteronomy 32:19 Seee now that I, even I, am He, and there is no God with me; I kill, and I make alive, I wound and I heal; and niether is there that can deliver out of my hands. Psalms 86:10 For thou art great, and doest wonderful things; thou art God alone. So we see that the old testament writers heard from God, and wrote what He wanted; and no where do we see God giving credit to another form of god, as to the fact, Isaiah 42:8 declares ” I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory I will not give to another. Our God wants credit for the great things He’s done, that includes the cross! John 10:30 “I and my father are one” Are we going to argue with Jesus, He would know that if there was two, He would have said so. And like wise God would have said that He and His son would have created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1, God created. John 1, All things were made by Him, who Jesus! John 14:9 he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, show us the Father. 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Isaiah 43:11 ” I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior. Acts 2:16 Know for certain that this Jesus, that you crucified, that God made Him both Savior and Lord. 1 Timothy 3:16 ” and without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preched unto Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory…

  15. Matthew, I have always been confused as to the explanations of the Trinity…people have asked me for my thoughts – “When I pray, where do I use ‘God’ and where do I use ‘Jesus”? I was inclined to say “They are interchangeable”…’Twas blind, but now I see!!! You have a beautiful illustration of the dual nature of Christ…it all makes sense now!!! Thank you for sharing your wisdom and bringing me closer in my personal relationship with Jesus Christ…now I truly know God. AMEN!

  16. matthew macarthur September 20, 2012 at 10:46 am

    How can God be three different persons, but yet one God? How can three people share one mind? What if I want to ask one for something and the other doesn’t want me to have it? What if I ask the Father for something in Jesus name, does He get mad? How come we worship His holy name Jesus and not Jeovah? Does the Father get mad when the Son gets all the credit for everything? Didnn’t Jesus create everything? Wasn’t it made by Him, and for Him? Was not everything that was made, and without Him was not anything made that was made? Isn’t He the light of the world? Why don’t we pray and ask for anything in the Fathers name, or do we? Is God the Father our only Saviour, or is Jesus our Saviour? Who is the Word, God or Jesus? Who is the first and last? Who forgives my sins, God the Father or Jesus? Who is our redeemer, God Or Jesus? Who do we only worship, God or the Son? Who is the I am, God or Son? Who raised Jesus from the dead, Himself or the Father? Who is the judge of the whole earth? Who blood purchased my soul, God the Father or the Son? Who name is Wonderful, Counseller, Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, it’s Jesus!! As you can understand now, that believing in the trinity is more than confusing; it just wrong! Why don’t you quit trying to explain what you cant, and give our God the credit He deserves. The One who loved us from the foundations of this world, the One who has ruled forever, the One that shed His blood on the cross. To the One that sits on the throne, the One whom the angels gather around and worship, the One I cant wait to look upon His face, the One who saved me by His grace, and there I’ll fall on my face and worship Him forever!!!

  17. I wonder when the early church fathers were throwing around all these Greek philosophical terms to describe what should be a simple monotheism if when they talked about god and Jesus actually pictured a middle eastern man standing in the void of eternity with his father, an old man with a beard, or I’d they pictured something like divine energies or cosmic elementals, etc.

  18. matthew macarthur October 24, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    Why is it so hard to understand that your God took a robe of flesh for Himself; then took that flesh to the cross, and died for your sins? If you cant understand that, then you’ll never know the God that loves you! To think that the Almighty God would need, or want help with the dirty deed of the cross; then you dont know Him. No greater love, then to lay down your life for a friend. Wont you seek after Him today? If you want prayer, or someone to help you understand who He really is, I’ll be more than glad to help. Your friend Matt.

  19. Matthew MacArthur January 10, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    When it’s all said and done, it will be all said and done, and then it’s to late; Now is the day of your salvation. To understand God in His fullness, is a wonderful thing! I want to see Him, the One who died for me, the One who spilled His blood for me. The One who sits on the Throne, JESUS!! It’s so sad to have to tell you, if you’re not buried in the water in His wonderful name, been filled with His spirit, you wont even see the kingdom of God. But you will stand before Him anyway, there you will kneel before Him, and there you will confess that He is Lord! He is God, and God alone!! So much for bowing before a bunch of grapes, or a glass of ice water evaporating, or an apple! For God is a spirit, and they that worship Him, worship in spirit and truth.

  20. I just wanted to say that I think you are missing the point of an illustration (ie: egg, apple, 3 leaf clover) when speaking to kids. As you stated the Trinity is like the Trinity. I completely agree that there is nothing like our triune God. We will never fully grasp the mystery of God in this way, at least while we are here on Earth. However, I think you’re going a little overboard on your dismissal of an illustration. It is meant to cause them to think & find some common understanding while using something they are familiar with in their everyday life. Adults have (hopefully :) rational & critical thinking that can help them understand & learn about things outside of their life. The life of a 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 year old is based on themselves. They can’t see past anything that is in “their everyday world”. That’s why we, as teachers, try to connect ideas from things they see. You made an excellent point of teaching what the trinity is not and using the triangle, but a preschooler or even a first grader is going to look at you like you grew an alien from your forehead. Illustrations keep it simple.

  21. There is one person in the Godhead. The man Christ Jesus, the image of the invisable God. There is no trinity, ONE GOD! And His name is Jesus!!

  22. Hi
    I enjoy reading your blog !
    especially this page.

    I’m a muslim and our view is simple: God is one !
    and jesus is His messenger

    how about that ? it is very simple

  23. matthew macarthur March 27, 2013 at 11:49 am

    Every knee shall bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of the Father. “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equel To God:” Philippians 2:6. ‘And the Lord shall be King over all the earth: and in that day shall there be One Lord, and His name one.” Zechariah 14:9. Every time you diminish The Lord Christ Jesus to a role less than He is, you take glory away from the God of heaven and earth. For it is that same God that created all; That lived, and died for our sins in the man Christ Jesus!

  24. “It is always best to remember that the Father is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and the Son is God, but they are not each other.”

    God + God + God but not each other is polytheism.

    The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are separate persons but the same God.

  25. I’m going to be blunt here, because it calls for it. To believe that God is three persons, but one God is stupid. No where you are in the world does 1+1+1=1. that’s three (3) no matter what grade you’re in. You’re misguided at best, but totally confused for sure. Your belief in God comes from a pagan understanding of God. God doesn’t lie, so if there was a mini me God, He’d said it! All through the Bible God declares Himself to be One. He is the almighty God in One person, the man Christ Jesus. God in the Father, God in the Son, God in the Holy Ghost. There is only one person in the God head, the man Christ Jesus! There is only One name for God, JESUS! There is only one Lord, one Savior, one Redeemer of our soul. God in the flesh, Christ Jesus.

  26. The first misconception with the trinity doctine is to believe in three persons in the God head. Webster’s definition of a person is, (noun) “a human being.” Seeing there is but one human beinging in the God head, The man Christ Jesus; there is only one person in the God head. The spirit of God lived in that man wholly, and holy in Deity, and humanity. A spirit is not a person, it’s a spirit.

  27. I think that the first “stupid” mistake that many people make (including you) is that they use the word “IS” with the analogy. As you state on your explanations; “let me now cover the “stupid statements” and why they don’t pass the test” — you start wrongly with the premise that everyone believes that this is how God IS. I have yet to hear someone tell me that God IS like a three leaf clover or H2O or anything else. People use it as analogies or examples to explain how something can be divided or have three parts and yet still be the same essence or being but never to say that this IS how the Trinity works.
    These are examples or figures that when properly explained can help unbelievers arrive to a better understanding/reasoning on how something can be three or three can be one. NOT that this is what God really is (because after all no one knows or comprehends exactly the trinity to its fullest) but that if God wanted to divide himself in 3 – 4 -5 or 6… He could because He is God and I’m not. All we know is that He decided to reveal Himself to us in Three different persons and we learn it, bow our knees, accept it, and worship Him.
    And if people need descriptions of H20 or clovers to learn it, then use them correctly without calling them stupid. By the way I totally agree with you in your believe of the Trinity, I just don’t think that we do much help to unbelievers when we use words such as “stupid”.

  28. Well Johny, looks like the trinity scalars have won out again. Your brilliant definition on the word “is” reminds me of Bill Clinton. To refresh you on the matter “it depends on the meaning of ‘is’ is!” and we all knew he was lying too! The reason you, or nobody else can explain the trinity, is because it’s full of conjecture. It was arrived from idiots trying to define a God they never knew. Instead of reading all the gospels, and Acts; they focused on one scpiture. And what the came up with was a terrible interpretation of the scriptures. It’s like any lie told long enough, there will be many that believe it for the sake of believing; but in any lie when pressured to hold up under scrutiny it begins to unravel. The first Church was all baptized in the name of Jesus. That is the name of the One True King! He is the only person in the God head. When you define the father, and the holy ghost they are a spirit, not a person. And they are the spirit of the man Christ Jesus; making Him God in the flesh!

  29. I’m fascinated by this intriguing dialogue. It’s hard to understand this three person God. The way I understand your explaination is three different persons, and one God. Wouldn’t that make four gods? Is the father God, or is the son God, or is the holy ghost God? Do they sit around talking to each other. And if they’re three seperated and different gods, who is the real God thats in control of everything. And you keep saying that God revealed Himself in three different persons, where did you find that in the bible? I’ve looked and cant find anywhere that the father, and or the son, and the holy ghost was ever seen together in person. I’ve read where a voice was heard from the heavens declaring Jesus as His son, but never the person was seen. Is God not omnipotent? Is God not omnipresensce? I believe that Jesus was God in man, and at times He used His deity in the onmipresence to revael to man His deity. But nevertheless, three gods, or four gods is to confusing for me.

  30. This is a great explanation of how lacking these analogies can be. That said, people who use it usually point out that it is just simple explanation of one of the mysteries of our faith and cannot fully explain the complexity of the Trinity. We are only human and our understanding is not God’s understanding. I think people who use these analogies do the best they can to explain the doctrine of the trinity to others. Don’t forget that Jesus being fully God and full man chose to use everyday objects to teach complex spiritual lessons as well!

  31. So you believe in three gods. A schizophrenic god.

  32. Man is a trinity, but not three persons. Man’s trinity, like God’s, consists of the body, soul, and spirit.

    Jesus represented the body, and within Him resided His soul (Father) and spirit. Therefore Jesus said He and the Father were one. Isaiah also said the Son that was born was called the everlasting Father.

    One God, Who was called Redeemer, Savior, and King in the Old Testament was the very Jesus in the New Testament. Isaiah also gave this truth, “Declare and set forth your case; Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me” (45:21). As God has stated through Isaiah, “there is no God besides Me”, He also stated there is no Savior besides Him.

    So I ask, are there ‘two’ Saviors who are two separate persons? Are there ‘two’ Kings, and also, are there ‘two’ Redeemers?

    I will also ask, Who was the first and the last? Is it the God in Isaiah (whom most consider the Father), “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me (Isaiah 44:6), Or, is it Jesus, the Son, who stated in Revelation 22:13, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end”? You can’t have ‘two’ firsts and ‘two’ lasts!

  33. The reason he starts out by telling you never to use those statements ever; is that it will expose the trinity belief as the lie that it is. The reason you can not explain, or ever make it make sence, is that it’s false teachings of a pagin church.
    There ia only one person in the God head, and thats the man Christ Jesus. And that person was, and is God Amighty.

  34. My thing is, if it is all the power of God, then why split his power all up into halves if it is all him? None of them can work without him. He is the creator of the titles. Doesent make sence. You cant liken God to the earth, not spiritual with natural, but spitural with spiritual. If we mix spitural with natural then we do not have the mind of Christ…

  35. Blandell:
    Your comment is my excuse to stop fussing with a door installation for a moment or two. Thanks.

    Those who encounter a triune God in the biblical text discover a God who, from Eternity Past, is relational in His very essence. The phrase “authentic individuality, complete union and perfect community in the Trinity” describes a relationally self-sufficient God. He created us not from a Sovereign Being’s need to dominate someone (read: Allah), nor from a lonely Cosmic Entity’s need to divert Himself with our foolish carryings on. No, a Triune God created out of a surfeit of love. In creating us, God magnifies His experience of love in ways that authenticate and magnify love beyond even the moral and relational perfection the GodHead enjoyed in Eternity Past.

    The love that the GodHead experienced certainly becomes magnified arithmetically by adding new persons to the list of persons loved and, conversely, by experiencing love from new sources. This math exercise represents the least interesting line of love’s development.

    With the Creation, God qualitatively perfected, authenticated His/Their experience of love. Love, to be more than mere affection or pleasant emotional diversion, requires choice and sacrifice on the part of the lover. Where, how or when were the three persons of the Trinity ever required to make a hard choice for the sake of their love for one another before the Creation? What painful sacrifice did one of the three persons of the Trinity ever have to make for the sake of His love of the others? Such love without an experience of hard choice or sacrifice may exist in moral perfection but not in perfect authenticity.

    With the creation, and with humanity’s descent into sin, God perfects and authenticates His/Their love. Jesus makes an agonizing choice to die for us in the Garden, an agonizing choice to obey the Father whose plan Jesus will carry out. The Father must choose to make the Son “to be sin” with…

  36. Ok, So I have a question regarding the H2O analogy, which I have always found to be perhaps the best (albeit misleading analogy). In relation to the diagram at the bottom of the post (which is the most clear visual representation of the Trinity that I’ve seen), could we not make the exact same diagram with H20 in the middle and ice, water, and steam on the outer circles. If we, for a moment, we forget about the fact that one substance CAN transform into the others given different conditions (temperature/pressure).
    Ice is neither liquid or steam.
    Liquid water is neither steam or ice.
    & Steam is neither liquid water, or ice.
    all are H20.
    So, if we explain that we are to ignore the factor that one can in fact turn into the other given certain conditions, would the H2O analogy not be pretty apt at discribing the trinity? It certainly does fit into the bottom diagram quite well, the the only problem being in the Trinity, one does not Transform into another, but rather simultaniously pre-existing. Any thought for/against this?

  37. Sometimes it helps to have things explained without the pretentiousness or the jargon, and you realise this expertly here.

  38. 3N1
    By Daniel King

    It doesn’t make sense,
    The Trinity,
    For all of time,
    A mystery.

    Three in One,
    One in Three,
    That is the way
    that it has to be.

    In the Old Testament,
    God is One.
    But in the New Testament,
    Born is a Son.

    One from the Beginning,
    They developed a plan
    Jesus is God,
    He’s also a Man.

    So, there’s a Father
    And a Son,
    Don’t stop yet,
    Because we’re not done.

    The Spirit was promised,
    On Pentecost He came,
    Now there’s three,
    But they’re all the same.

    The Father,
    The Word,
    The Bird,
    It’s a little absurd.

    Three beings,
    One whole.
    Try to explain it, lose your mind;
    Try to deny it, lose your soul.

  39. The egg sounded like a good analogy until I dropped it. Oooooooooh, what a mess…cannot stand up to a little pressure.
    The three-leaf clover. Nice try until I chopped it up with my lawn mower, what a mess…this one is easily cut apart.
    Water. Three states [solid, liquid and gas] but never at the exact same time. Now when Jesus ‘the ‘Son’ ” prayed to “the ‘Father’,” they must have been in two different states
    at the exact same time. This analogy melts under a little heat.
    How about using three parts of bread:
    The center/dough; The outside crust; and, the holes, which will mean it is holy.
    Ultimately, the Scriptures must have absolute evidence that the “trinity” is all one god. Did Christ ever say “I am the Almighty God?” Or, where did the holy spirit ever say such?
    Until there is Scriptural proof, not some assumptions as per John 1:1, this thing about having three gods is cracked, half-baked and nothing more than vapour.

  40. This whole notion that the Creator would baffle our minds with this convoluted theory of His true identity is insane! The same God that told the Hebrew children that, He is one, and beside Him there is no other; is the same God that hung on the tree for our sins. There is only one person in the God head, and thats the man Christ Jesus. The same God that spoke to Moses in the desert, is the same God that walk apon the water. The same God that forgave King David of his sin, is the same God that healed the man in Capernaum in Mark 2. by forgiving his sins. And those around that knew the verses marveled at such a statement for they knew, that God alone can forgive sins! Jesus spoke in parables so that the people would understand; God is easy to understand! It’s the lies of man that can’t be understood! To arrive at the teachings of the trinity, is to fall for lies told by satan 1700 years ago. If Satan can hide from you the true nature and identity of our Great Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
    the battle is his; as far as your soul is concerned.

  41. As I was reading many of the comments from 2009-2014, I suddenly realized that Job has the answer. God rebuked Job’s three friends, “…because you have not spoken of Me what is right as my servant Job has…”

    This judgment of God prompted me to look again at what Job had said, since God declares Job’s final words as “right.”

    So I read in the 42nd chapter where Job had said, “I know that You can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted…therefore I have declared that which I did not understand…I retract, and I repent in dust and ashes.” (Job 42:2, 3b, 6)

    Basically after all the discussion and debate, Job declared that God is too wonderful to understand, and God said that this is the only right statement.

    One day we will see His face, and live! At last will know fully as we have been fully known. Until that astonishing day however, let’s conclude, “I know that I cannot understand such a wonderful God as You!”

  42. I am curious if the water, ice, steam example is viable when we consider triple point. (triple point is the pressure and temperature at which all 3 exist at once and are still part of each other, ie not separate containers)


  43. Thank you for the concise, accurate information. I, from time to time, use the water analogy but always specify the limitations of that analogy.
    Regards and God bless.


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