Curt, I was wondering about that statistic on the use of languages post-seminary. I do hear what you and Scott are saying and I am not indicating that a pastors should be Hebrew and Greek scholars. But to at least have some type of foundation.

Lisa, I agree with you on the need for a foundation in the original languages. But there’s a running discussion about what exactly that foundation should look like and how extensive it needs to be. And, as someone who is passionate about leadership and pastoral training, I’ve been keenly interested in the different viewpoints.

There have been a number of surveys that have covered similar ground. The one that I conducted was in 2005. (Actually, I misquoted one of my own stats! The percentage was right, but to a slightly different question. See below.) The survey was sent to almost 1400 evangelical pastors and seminary educators from 16 different denominations and from nondenominational churches/schools. I received over 200 responses. It was a multi-page survey, but here’s the section on usage of language skills:

Asked of pastors (percentages below are of responding seminary grads):

What level of Hebrew and/or Greek competence do you feel is necessary for a pastor?

expertise in translation 0%
ability to translate the text 13%
ability to utilize lexicons and critical commentaries 64%
basic familiarity 16%
no competence is necessary 7%

Note: this is where the 13% came from. My goof. I was just going too fast.

How much do you use a knowledge of Hebrew and/or Greek?

I translate a passage at least once a week. 16%
I translate a passage at least once a month. 11%
I frequently use commentaries and reference materials that require a familiarity with Hebrew/Greek. 61%
I don’t utilize Hebrew or Greek. 12%

So, instead of 13% of pastors referenced in my earlier post, it should have been 27%.

Are you regularly using the full extent of the Hebrew and/or Greek skills that you learned in your training?

yes 18%
no 82%

Asked of seminary educators:

What level of Hebrew and/or Greek competence do you feel is necessary for a pastor?

expertise in translation 6%
ability to translate the text 23%
ability to utilize lexicons and critical commentaries 56%
basic familiarity 9%
no competence is necessary 6%

I wish I were fluent in Greek, but these days there are so many study aids that I’m not sure how important that is.

I would guess that if one were fluent in and conversant with a large amount of ancient Greek literature and writings, esp. NT-contemporary ones, one would have a better idea how to translate and interpret things like 2 Peter 1:3-4 and not be slavishly dependent on study aids which may not always provide the aid you need.

Lisa -

No doubt each culture will need to address it’s own cultural issues. I simply wanted to swing the pendulum to the centre. I am not sure we can claim that a pastor must have a certain type of training. I think it’s good, and if you can get some (American or Chinese or Belgian), then do consider it. But what I think it might be worth considering is that, whether we face modern America questioning the truth of Scripture, etc, or we have the police chasing us from our meetings and imprisoning us, there is the reality of what will remain the greatest testimony. Jesus never emphasised that a great light will be shone by being able to hermeneutically understand all of Scripture. Rather, there was an emphasis on unity, humility, serving, loving (through serving), character, prayer, etc.

So, my desire was to bring the pendulum back to the middle (for Chinese and Americans).

Scott, thanks. I’ll look into that. I have two friends who are involved with the underground church in China too. I’ll see one of them next week and ask him as well.

Lisa, I remember going to Wheaton once and seeing C.S. Lewis’ library. It seemed like half the books were in Greek or Latin. I couldn’t even read the titles. I’m envious of that. He writes of enjoying the Greek poets in their own language. I doubt many seminary grads are at that level of understanding. And as Scott asks, how much is enough?

I wish I were fluent in Greek, but these days there are so many study aids that I’m not sure how important that is.

Scott, wouldn’t it be fair to say that different cultures require different ministry needs? The church in China contends with issues that we can’t imagine BUT at the same token, we have ministry related issues that are not pertinent to the church in China. Wouldn’t you say that the diversity of interpretations, intellectualism or even anti-intellectualism that pervades the church in this country might require a greater engagement with the languages and church history than other cultures? Just a thought

Dave Z -

To see some of the ministry training in China, check out Brother Yun’s The Heavenly Man. He shares about it near the end of the book. They teach those in ministry training how to jump out of windows (in case the police break in on their gatherings). My interaction with those in the underground church of China share similar stories of having to flee regularly. A little different from solid understanding of Hebrew and Greek.

Jim, EGAD I was trying to leave names out of it and focus on the example. Oh well

Curt, I was wondering about that statistic on the use of languages post-seminary. I do hear what you and Scott are saying and I am not indicating that a pastors should be Hebrew and Greek scholars. But to at least have some type of foundation.

I’d be even more curious about the stats of folks who quit ministry altogether within 5 years after graduating seminary. If I have learned nothing from seminary is that training is not isolated to the classroom. I do believe that learning dependency upon God, the ability to lead by example and increased spiritual maturity are pretty significant components of the training process.

Pastor Steven Anderson, IFB wacko…gotta love it. He is unbelievable…

It would be interesting to compare perceptions of pastoral education in different cultures. Many countries just copy what they see being done in the West, and this doesn’t always work well for them. In some of the regions where the most churches are being planted and where the Gospel is spreading explosively, traditional Bible colleges and seminaries simply can’t keep up with the demand for pastors and church leaders. This is one reason why ministries such as BILD Int., and their Antioch School of Church Planting and Leadership Development, have done so well. They equip churches and church movements to do effective and substantive church-based theological education, which is much more accessible and a much more efficient means to get pastors thoroughly trained.

Regarding study in the original languages, more than one seminary prof has explained to me that seminaries typically require either far too much or far too little training in Hebrew and Greek. 2-3 years of study in Greek does not truly qualify someone to do translation work. You need a lot more study to really know what you’re doing (. . . but not to think you know what you’re doing). But you don’t have to spend years memorizing paradigms, etc, etc, to be able to knowledgeably use technical commentaries and reference materials. A good familiarity with the languages and basic principles will suffice.

Quite a few studies show how this is lived out in actual ministry. I personally conducted a survey that echoed other results. Only 13% of the seminary graduates I polled used their skills in the original languages for anything more than utilizing lexicons and critical commentaries. Many people, both pastors and seminary educators, would say that pastors don’t actually need to do anything more. (Only 29% of the seminary professors I polled felt that more was required for pastors.) Obviously, this is is an ongoing debate. But it appears—according to every study that I’ve seen—that most pastors are getting far more education in Hebrew/Greek than they’re actually using. So something doesn’t fit somewhere.