Comments on: The Problem with Vision http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/07/the-problem-with-vision/ Making Theology Accessible Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:16:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Douglas K. Adu-Boahen http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/07/the-problem-with-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-16003 Douglas K. Adu-Boahen Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:04:11 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=2606#comment-16003 It would seem that so many who are besotted with the concept of vision also come across as besotted with life in the "here-and-now". Vision is a good thing - it's not the main thing. God and His glory, (now in the salvation of souls and their discipleship through the Word of God, and in the consummation of God's plan in the New Heavens and New Earth) are the main thing - and we'd do well to place them in their proper perspective. Great post. It would seem that so many who are besotted with the concept of vision also come across as besotted with life in the “here-and-now”. Vision is a good thing – it’s not the main thing. God and His glory, (now in the salvation of souls and their discipleship through the Word of God, and in the consummation of God’s plan in the New Heavens and New Earth) are the main thing – and we’d do well to place them in their proper perspective. Great post.

]]> By: Lisa Robinson http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/07/the-problem-with-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-16002 Lisa Robinson Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:28:48 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=2606#comment-16002 So says you, Minnow and possibly assessed based on past history? My goal is not to battle but to be a faithful witness to the Biblical text. I am only expressing a concern over popular teaching that may not be consistent with it. Really, that is all I'm doing. There are no battles here, honestly. So says you, Minnow and possibly assessed based on past history? My goal is not to battle but to be a faithful witness to the Biblical text. I am only expressing a concern over popular teaching that may not be consistent with it. Really, that is all I’m doing. There are no battles here, honestly.

]]> By: Minnow http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/07/the-problem-with-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-16001 Minnow Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:20:05 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=2606#comment-16001 Lisa--it feel like you are building a strawman with which to do battle. Lisa–it feel like you are building a strawman with which to do battle.

]]> By: sollam http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/07/the-problem-with-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-16000 sollam Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:59:13 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=2606#comment-16000 I could'nt agree more. To often are secular concepts of leadership bought wholesale and applied to the running of the "Church of Chrst". All of this "Vission Hype" and "purpose driven life" tantrum that is being pushed in churches today is really motivational speaking. Instead of being good evangalists and adhearing to the great comission of teaching the people CHRIST and allow them to be guided by his word, we attempt to package and sell the idea of christinity and make church leadership a form of business management. It should be understood that there is a great difference between management and leadership. the leader cast the vission and objective ( In Christianity This was already done by christ ) The Manager ensures that this vision is made known and understood and assist in accomplishing it ( This is the role of the "church leader") so evvectively we are managers of God's Vission. Therefore we dont have the authority to come up wit any new ones. Hence whatever we may say is our "vission from God" can be challanged with the word of God and if it si found lacking ........ well ?? I could’nt agree more.

To often are secular concepts of leadership bought wholesale and applied to the running of the “Church of Chrst”.
All of this “Vission Hype” and “purpose driven life” tantrum that is being pushed in churches today is really motivational speaking.

Instead of being good evangalists and adhearing to the great comission of teaching the people CHRIST and allow them to be guided by his word, we attempt to package and sell the idea of christinity and make church leadership a form of business management.

It should be understood that there is a great difference between management and leadership.

the leader cast the vission and objective ( In Christianity This was already done by christ )

The Manager ensures that this vision is made known and understood and assist in accomplishing it ( This is the role of the “church leader”) so evvectively we are managers of God’s Vission.
Therefore we dont have the authority to come up wit any new ones. Hence whatever we may say is our “vission from God” can be challanged with the word of God and if it si found lacking …….. well ??

]]> By: Lisa Robinson http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/07/the-problem-with-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-15999 Lisa Robinson Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:01:39 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=2606#comment-15999 TU&D, would it be possible to discuss the missio Dei in context of church's function without discussing gifts? In trying to maintain a faithful witness to Scripture concerning how we conduct the church's mission it seemed reasonable to discuss the purpose of gifts, particularly in contrast to the idea of vision. The fact that others have hyper-utilized the term for other purposes should not cloud this contrast and should be divorced from current issues related to the complementarian/egalitarian debate as that has absolutely no relevance to post. Just my 2 cents ;) TU&D, would it be possible to discuss the missio Dei in context of church’s function without discussing gifts? In trying to maintain a faithful witness to Scripture concerning how we conduct the church’s mission it seemed reasonable to discuss the purpose of gifts, particularly in contrast to the idea of vision. The fact that others have hyper-utilized the term for other purposes should not cloud this contrast and should be divorced from current issues related to the complementarian/egalitarian debate as that has absolutely no relevance to post. Just my 2 cents ;)

]]> By: Truth Unites... and Divides http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/07/the-problem-with-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-15998 Truth Unites... and Divides Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:18:12 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=2606#comment-15998 Did you have a vision to write a blog essay about The Problem of Vision? ;-) "<i>The problem is that God’s picture of how His plan unfolds is carried out through the body of Christ that utilize their gifting effectively for the work of the kingdom. Our contribution to this work is centered around gifts not vision."</i> Ugh. Would you like to write a blog post about the hyper-utilization of the concept of "gifts" and "gifting"? This term has been abused and misused also. Being a staunch complementarian I have seen the term used to justify women's ordination. I have also seen the term used to justify ordaining active GLBTers to leadership offices in the church. FWIW, if I were to compare the abuses of the words "vision" with "gifts/gifting", I'd say the egregious abuse of the word "gifts/gifting" far, far outweigh that of the word "vision". Don't spend all my 2 cents in one place. ;-) Did you have a vision to write a blog essay about The Problem of Vision?
;-)

“The problem is that God’s picture of how His plan unfolds is carried out through the body of Christ that utilize their gifting effectively for the work of the kingdom. Our contribution to this work is centered around gifts not vision.”

Ugh. Would you like to write a blog post about the hyper-utilization of the concept of “gifts” and “gifting”?

This term has been abused and misused also. Being a staunch complementarian I have seen the term used to justify women’s ordination. I have also seen the term used to justify ordaining active GLBTers to leadership offices in the church.

FWIW, if I were to compare the abuses of the words “vision” with “gifts/gifting”, I’d say the egregious abuse of the word “gifts/gifting” far, far outweigh that of the word “vision”.

Don’t spend all my 2 cents in one place. ;-)

]]> By: Leslie http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/07/the-problem-with-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-15997 Leslie Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:25:24 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=2606#comment-15997 Powerful post. I am reminded of Ramesh Richard's proposal that a Christian's vision is to make Jesus well-known. How that plays out is dependent on our giftings, as Lisa suggests, and where God has strategically placed us. Thanks, Lisa, for another use-ful post. Powerful post. I am reminded of Ramesh Richard’s proposal that a Christian’s vision is to make Jesus well-known. How that plays out is dependent on our giftings, as Lisa suggests, and where God has strategically placed us.

Thanks, Lisa, for another use-ful post.

]]> By: DEF http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/07/the-problem-with-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-15996 DEF Tue, 14 Jul 2009 01:58:07 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=2606#comment-15996 I appreciate your skepticism about hyper-utilization of vision. In fact, I think sometimes Evangelicals become so consumed with vision that they forgot the one who gives the vision. I also agree with your emphasis on the spiritual gifts. That said, I propose that vision results from daily obedience to God's revealed word. As we grow in intimacy with God, He provides sharper vision for our lives, rather seeking out vision from God. In addition, Soren Kierkegaard, one of my favorite philosophers, reminds us that authentic living is God's vision for life in whatever ministry we are in whether secular or sacred, although I prefer not to bifurcate these two. Great post! I appreciate your skepticism about hyper-utilization of vision. In fact, I think sometimes Evangelicals become so consumed with vision that they forgot the one who gives the vision. I also agree with your emphasis on the spiritual gifts.

That said, I propose that vision results from daily obedience to God’s revealed word. As we grow in intimacy with God, He provides sharper vision for our lives, rather seeking out vision from God.

In addition, Soren Kierkegaard, one of my favorite philosophers, reminds us that authentic living is God’s vision for life in whatever ministry we are in whether secular or sacred, although I prefer not to bifurcate these two.

Great post!

]]> By: Joshua Allen http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/07/the-problem-with-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-15995 Joshua Allen Tue, 14 Jul 2009 01:44:23 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=2606#comment-15995 Good post. Interesting observations about how the ideas of mission/vision statement can become muddled when placed in a religious context. I experienced this obsession with "vision" firsthand from the secular side of the house as well. The idea of "vision" took the business world by storm with the publication of Collins 1994 book, "Built to Last", where the authors articulated the idea that every serious business should have a "vision statement". To the secular business world, "vision" is like a magic pixie dust that aligns the company's business units to a common goal and provides unambiguous motivation for the troops. A summary of the rationale, with examples of "good" vision statements, is provided at: http://articles.wallstraits.net/articles/873 It is hard to overstate the impact that book had in those days, as every Fortune 1000 company scrambled to create a clear and motivating "vision statement" and socialized it to all of their employees. Most business books of that period emphasized the concept of "vision statements". I sat through many vision planning sessions at various large corporations over the following decade, and contributed directly to at least 3 vision statements. In the decade after the book was first published, any company without a vision statement was considered "built to fail". The fervor has subsided somewhat, but most corporations still consider the idea important. Good post. Interesting observations about how the ideas of mission/vision statement can become muddled when placed in a religious context. I experienced this obsession with “vision” firsthand from the secular side of the house as well. The idea of “vision” took the business world by storm with the publication of Collins 1994 book, “Built to Last”, where the authors articulated the idea that every serious business should have a “vision statement”. To the secular business world, “vision” is like a magic pixie dust that aligns the company’s business units to a common goal and provides unambiguous motivation for the troops. A summary of the rationale, with examples of “good” vision statements, is provided at: http://articles.wallstraits.net/articles/873

It is hard to overstate the impact that book had in those days, as every Fortune 1000 company scrambled to create a clear and motivating “vision statement” and socialized it to all of their employees. Most business books of that period emphasized the concept of “vision statements”. I sat through many vision planning sessions at various large corporations over the following decade, and contributed directly to at least 3 vision statements. In the decade after the book was first published, any company without a vision statement was considered “built to fail”. The fervor has subsided somewhat, but most corporations still consider the idea important.

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