Chris,

Just in case you’re still reading here, I think this post has a lot more with exercising Godly discernment in all our teaching than a lack of love or judging others. After all, the Bible itself states those who teach will be judged more harshly, and that scripture is talking about God doing that.

Some pastors I know think it’s not the Holy Spirit speaking when they are ‘told’ to change a well thought out sermon, but satan wanting it not to be heard. Others think it’s because there’s something which personally convicts them, and it’s their own mind rebelling against the truth. Still others want to get their personal opinions across as truth, without causing offense, by tacking the Holy Spirit’s name on it.

For a pastor not to question the source of something like this, and go mindlessly along with it, is a good example of fools rushing in where angels fear to tread.

We’ve got too many false prophets and teachers out there already who mislead people simply because they ‘feel’ a certain emotion or check about something, which they erroneously conclude is God speaking instead.

I think that would be a much greater offense to God.

OK….. I just deleted a huge paragraph that I wrote to try and put this more to the point, though the writer of this article may criticize me for not going with what I originally wrote. Who are you, who am I, who is anyone of us, to play the position of judging another minister when he makes a statement such as the one you judged as stupid, in your own understanding. My friend, what if you are wrong? If so, then you just said you think it is stupid that ministers follow the leading of the Spirit. If there are those of you that feel you are OK in doing that, then I guess go right ahead and hammer down. Just remember that in the same manner in which you judge, you yourself will be judged. It just amazes me that people write such articles using the Bible as their source of authority. The same book which says that the only thing that matters is faith expressing itself in love. Oh I am sure that you will find some passage that will support your point and you will reply with it. Don’t worry, this is my only post. I just had to write something b/c it disturbs me so much to see believers speaking about ministers in such a way. Before you say that your writing this is out of love perhaps go read what the scripture has to say love is. (1 Cor.13)

I’ve had many times where I’ve been preparing for a Bible Study, and I thought I knew where I was going at the start, only to find my studies leading me in a different direction. I don’t think that’s illegitimate. It was the process of studying, and the stuff I was learning that made me rethink my initial assumptions.

Daniel B-

Agreed.

I think, because as a nation we are so earthly wealthy, God certainly can get muddled. And I have witnessed a lot of us seeking these signs and bodily experiences rather than pursuing the more difficult road of slow sanctification.

For whatever reason, I think discernment in some situations is much more difficult. As I said in another thread, I have suffered from incorrect prophecies (which were given with honest intentions, and thoroughly checked on my end). I don’t think it can be written off as a mistake, because these came from several sources.
I still love and admire them.
And of course I have no bad feelings towards God.

I’ve thought perhaps it could be some sort of spiritual warfare (Satan displaying lies that are indistinguishable from the truth), or these types of issues are a result of our nation’s church collectively missing the mark.

The best answer I can come up with is that this is really powerful stuff, and we here in many of the churches in America are playing with it as if it is nothing big, or there to primarily make us feel good.

I’ve seen extraordinary things, but I have also seen a lot of negative chaos as a result of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And I just don’t think it’s as simple as false prophets or beginner mistakes.

When I say I am becoming more conservative, what I mean is this. I know scripture is 100% accurate. Do I NEED a sign, a word from God, an experience (or any of the other manifestations of the gifts) to know His will and thoughts/feelings about me? The answer is no. Because I have His inspired word, I technically have all that I need.

Is that taking a safe route? Yes.

Is that missing out on something (some deeper connection) in my relationship with God? I don’t know. How many of us in America are taking full advantage of experiencing God through His word? Maybe we are missing out.

Ashley …

Remember that the abuse of gifts does not render void the proper use.

“I had always been taught, and taught others, to actively seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit as you move to maturity in faith.”

You taught and were taught correctly.

Charismatic gifts are not just used in “pentacostal churches”, they are used by God all over the world and in most places it’s rather silly to think that God doesn’t do certain categories of supernatural activity any more. The USA and Western Europe are the exception because our materialistic backgrounds have limited us.

Prophecy is primarily meant, in my opinion, to see people as God sees them. God often tells us something about someone and wants us to “pass the word along” so that they can see the image of God, and see the New Creation that God has made them, rather than seeing their sin nature as their true self.

Learning to minister prophetically takes grace and humility. Humility to say “Hey, I think heard God say this, but I’m not sure. It seems right and encouraging and Biblical, but it still could be my own thoughts. Da da da da da. What do you think?” And it takes having grace for others to be wrong about something they’ve spoken, understanding that if we never risk we will rarely learn.

“Neglect the Holy Spirit. The idea that is conveyed is that the Holy Spirit is not present in the sermon/lesson preparation process”"

That’s not necessarily true. People can fully agree that the Holy Spirit should and does guide the preparation process, but claim that this particular time, they didn’t let him do this and just went at it on their own.

I doubt you would claim the the Holy Spirit would never say to someone “You are supposed to be saying such-and-such, instead of so-and-so”. And even if that did happen, it wouldn’t mean that the preparation was not from God. God can very well use what we see as preparation for X for the purpose of Y instead.

And also, it seems like you’re referring to the “instant, non-prepared message” as MIRACULOUS, but not the prepared type. Only on the human end of the communication is there a difference. Both are equally miraculous and equally supernatural.

I am new to comment, but have been lurking for a while (and have read and benefited from most every word on this blog!)

I have a question in regards to one of the related comments to this post.

Would any of you care to elaborate on how you came to the conclusion that many of the charismatic gifts used in the pentecostal churches may not be intended to be a part of the church of today?

I ask this, not to attack at all, but because I too have been damaged through charismatic churches. I grew up in a traditional church, and in college moved on to a large contemporary church that was very interested in feeling the Holy Spirit. I moved to being on staff. The church was seemingly being pulled in all directions, prophesies constantly happening, etc.

I am working my way back to the church. I had thought it was an issue of me and my personal faith that had gotten in the way. I had always been taught, and taught others, to actively seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit as you move to maturity in faith.
I am beginning to think I may agree with those of you who have moved back to more conservative christianity.

Would anyone share their personal journeys, or help with any biblical reasons for coming to this conclusion?

If this is better answered on another thread, please direct me!!!

-Ashley

I have a potentially silly question, is it possible that a pastor may spend his week preparing a sermon for personal reasons (personal interest, questionable motives, etc) and God is absent throughout this preperation.

At the last minute, God steps in and delivers His own message through the mouth of His messenger.

I am not a theologian, but I am also leery of categorically stating that God does not operate in a particular way because it does not meet my criteria for His actions.

I hope this makes sense and thank you for an opportunity to ramble…

I believe that the Holy Spirit works through structure, organization, and planning. Studying for a sermon… God is in that! Yes. But, the Holy Spirit works through spontaneity as well. As pastor we prepare and study with the Spirit, but we also listen as the Spirit speaks to us as we preach. Sometimes God may change the direction of our sermon for a much needed purpose.

It’s easy with a seminary degree (and I have one) to fit God into an academic box and to overemphasize preparation, as if that’s the rubber stamp. It’s kinda of our way of saying screw you uneducated fools. We don’t want to be niave like those backwood pastors who don’t prepare at all because they are convinced by the notion that the Spirit only works through spontaneity, so we jump to the polar opposite (allow our studies to be the main voice we listen too.)

And don’t get me wrong–study IS WORSHIP! The Jewish people embody this well, but it isn’t an end in itself. Because God’s Spirit is dynamic and not static, the Spirit may lead us differently. We have to be careful not to attribute to God what is actually from us, but there are times when the Spirit testifies to us in such a real way, we know that God is leading us in a different direction.

[...] Oh, and then there’s the whole issue of how manipulative the “spontaneity” card can be (not always, but sometimes). Michael Patton covers this well when he writes, “I was going to preach this, but the Holy Spirit led me to this”… and other stupid… [...]