If one person who has the gift of holy spirit from God, The Holy Spirit, and is ‘a charismatic’ or has the ability to speak in tongues, interpret tongues, have a word of prophecy, impart miracles, gifts of healings, faith, discerning of spirits and have words of wisdom, and word of knowledge; then all people who have the gift of holy spirit from God, The Holy Spirit are ‘charismatic’ and have at hand all of these. These are the manifestations of the gift of holy spirit and are not distributed willy nilly. God is not a respecter of persons. We are all given the same measure. The manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. We all have what is needed to the profit of the church, and can operate as needed. For by one spirit are we all baptized into one body… and have been all made to drink into one spirit.

To see is to believe is not the way of our faith. Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. Inquire with God what you are seeing. He will definitely get to your senses affirmatively.
2CO 5:6-7– Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight.

But we have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16).

The mind of Christ is not after the signs. The mind of Christ asserts the rule of God’s kingdom and therefore signs will follow.

This is how I see things in the Bible: I will refer to what Peter said in Acts 2:14-21 with more emphasis on v. 17– `In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.

Cessationists always refer to a certain time frame in Christian history which is not even recorded in the Bible as their basis for supporting what Paul mentioned in the letter to the Corinthian church about cessation of gifts (1 Cor 13:8-12).

Surely there is no contradiction between what Peter is saying to his Jerusalem audience and what Paul wrote to his Corinthian audience. I’m sure there is a simple answer to this seemingly complex issue. Here is what I could share about this so called “charismatic” continuation in our time.

Peter was referring to Joel’s prophesy about the last days being fulfilled in his time beginning on the Day of Pentecost. It is quite clear that Peter is saying on that day the prophesy of Joel is being fulfilled at that time. I’m quite sure it also means the beginning of the fulfillment of Joel’s prophesy. Simple question no. 1: when is the beginning of that prophesy? Answer: On the Day of Pentecost when the disciples received the Holy Spirit’s empowerment in the presence of multitudes of people. Question 2: How did Joel refer to that day? Answer: He said, “In the last days.” Question 3: When did the last days begin? Answer: On the Day of Pentecost. When did the last days end? Answer: That is for you to fill in.

Now referring to our time today, isn’t it that we still call our time the last days? So how come you’re promoting these cessationist beliefs? So who stopped these so called “charismata”? Is it God who stopped it? Answer: Certainly not God. Is it apostle Paul who put a stop to it? Answer: Obviously not him.

I agree with what apostle Paul said that these gifts will cease, but as long as it is called the last days these gifts will continue their purpose and manifestations. Some believers gave up on the flow of the gifts of the Holy Spirit but God did not. The inconsistencies of man versus the consistency of God.

Awesome to hear about that Eric! I’ll have to check it out! Thank you!

FYI – The church is The Body of Christ Assembly, 5001 Crozier Street, Dallas, TX 75215 phone 214-565-1708 (edit timed out on me)

On this subject, for you Dallasites (present and former), check out (as in – buy and read!) Julie Lyons’ just-published book, Holy Roller: Finding Redemption and the Holy Ghost in a Forgotten Texas Church:

http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Roller-Finding-Redemption-Forgotten/dp/1400074959/

Julie (former editor of The Dallas Observer, and former reporter for The Dallas Times-Herald, where the story detailed in her book began) tells the story of how she and her also white (now DTS-grad) husband ended up making their home in an inner-city all-Black church in South Dallas that ministers to crack addicts, homeless people, and all kinds of others (both here and in Africa) who need Jesus in a desperate way. And God shows up, too – healing people, giving prophecies, casting out demons, delivering people from drugs and alcohol, etc.

Buy the book and read it – and then visit Julie’s church and tell her and the people there that “the Bible says” that God stopped doing those things when the Apostles died. :^)

Thanks for the answer, Sheri.

I’m familiar with the first text, but not the second.

I look forward to reading more of your posts.

Regards
#John

#John, to answer your question, “where/what am I taking theology”. I am taking, as a matter of fact, The Theology Program (through Reclaiming the Mind Ministries), at our church. One of our text books is Wayne Grudem, Systematic Theology, an Introduction to Biblical Doctrine. Which I must admit, I’ve almost read completely through. And some chapters, I’ve studied 2 or 3 times. I am thoroughly enjoying it. The other text book is the Mosaic of Christian Belief, which is also very interesting. This is actually the first course, which we finished in June. The next course is Bibliogy and Hermenuetics will begin this fall.

To Douglas, It’s not heresy to question a “human”. However, it’s heresy to question the validity and evidence of the Holy Spirit. Just because you, personally, have not “experienced” a miraculous sign gift in your life, doesn’t mean it is invalid. You are putting limitations on the Holy Spirit. To be honest, I’m not real sure of the point you’re trying to make. If the point you are trying to make is that this conversation is meaningless and has nothing to do with our Salvation. . .I agree wholeheartedly. If the point is we must watch and learn from the past mistakes of different denominations and traditions, again, I agree. Other than that, could you please explain further your post? Sorry, sometimes I just don’t catch on. LOL!

It’s not heresy to question an experience and find it lacking from a Biblical perspective. You may disagree, but the Pentecostal movement is a theological novelty (100+ years), and the Charismatic movement even younger than that (~50 years), so it is well and above board for people to question it.

One thing I have always marveled at is that this was never a issue until Pentecostalism hit the scene with Charles Parham and William Seymour. Christians understood the role of the Spirit to be to convict of sin, righteousness and judgement, to empower the believer to live holy and to illumine the Scriptures. All this peripheral discussion would seem like beating the air to Christians of previous generations…

Sheri, where / what are you taking theology?

Regards,
#John