Lisa, you very well know how much I love DTS. Thanks for the comprehensive ananlysis.

Jason, you’ll get an amen from me. And I would take what you said about knowing God better and use the connecting thread of intentionality to where Scott is talking about. In other words, I think we have to be real intentional with topics like systematic theology or church history or greek or hebrew to reflect on the nature of God, in a devotional kind of way. Not to produce the “goosebumps” but to let the truths that come up really settle in our hearts. This is something I try to do because it did occur to me that I was beginning to look at things very academically and started losing focus on the foundation. I also am a little geeky about reading scholarly work…for fun sometimes, and this can further create that chasm.

ScottL — I know what you mean. I am learning that not every verse has a direct application. Sometimes (often?) the application is simply that it tells me more about who God is. Really I think that is what a lot of the study does for me. It tells me more about the nature of God and thereby deepens my faith. I don’t get a lot of “gospel goosebumps” from reading my Systematic book or translating Hebrew, but ultimately these studies help me to know God better.

Hopefully through this time of education I can then do a better job of telling others about God so that they may know Him better, amen?

Jason -

I do understand the separation/dichotomy. I am sorry if I sounded super-spiritual as if in everything I do I sense the closeness of God. That is not true. I guess what I would encourage is that, even when we don’t feel/sense the closeness, we still recognise it’s true. We will get on with our more intellectual things, but we are still growing, learning, etc, and He is still close. It’s all part of the whole, as you know.

Thanks

Joseph,

Welcome to the site. One of the many things that I like about it here is the diversity of backgrounds and Christian experiences represented by the everyone that participates.

I find that you are not alone in your aversion to seminary or “intellectualized” Christianity as you put it. I’d like to unpack a little of what you said. I think there is a difference between intellectual Christianity and intellectual only Christianity. The former enhances Christianity and builds a strong foundation the latter, tears it down. One of the things that prompted me to write this was the misperception that seminary falls into that latter category and therefore, has no real basis in spiritual life and leadership.

I’m going to push back on something Scott said about leadership not requiring seminary. Leadership is leading people into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ. I would say, depending on the level of leadership, formal training would be wise and in my opinion, a very humble thing to do. I am reminded that teachers bear the stricter judgment and should give one pause in how they are communicating God’s precious word, which is essentially communicating God Himself. Not to mention, that our 21st century Christianity is not contained in a vacuum. We’ve had 2,000+ of development around doctrine AND distortions. I think it makes sense to know what that is.

I used to be part of churches where leaders were convinced they had a lock on truth, or the “move of God” because of experience. These same ones rejected seminary, citing it as intellectual and therefore, non-spiritual. I would later come to learn that some of the doctrine founded in this spiritual increase was inconsistent with the Biblical witness of Scripture. Yet, these “inconsistent” truths were communicated as if it was. I shudder at the thought of miscommunicating God to people.

So this in no ways should be construed as me saying you should go to seminary. But just some points to consider about the reasons. As I mentioned, seminary training in and of itself is fruitless unless built into the foundation of pointing people to Christ and strengthening His church. One can use seminary for the reverse affect too.

mbaker,

“Getting the necessary fundamentals does not necessarily turn one into a pulpit pounding, Bible bashing, foaming at the mouth fundamentalist. It simply establishes some Godly boundaries between truth and error.”

You’ve been to my church? Tell me the next time you come there and I will say hello. LOL.

Bible bashing, foaming at the mouth…good visual. I am enjoying it immensely.

Dr G, yes topics of higher criticism most naturally come up, particularly in the systematic theology classes and Bible exposition. So as I have covered bibliology, trinitarianism and Old Testment history I so far higher criticism has been addressed. Again, I am just finishing my first year, so I would defer to a graduate like Michael or Roger. Michael, Roger????

In terms of schools that deal primarily with higher criticism, I am not sure from which angle you are asking this. I would imagine that all your divinity type schools most readily teach it as their foundation. I remember when I was considering seminary and a friend of mine who graduated from Howard School of Divinity was asking that I consider it. But because of its liberal foundation with respect to inspiration, inerrancy and christology I would never consider a school like that. Even though she was a serious believer, that education did impact her views on inerrancy, unfortunately. So again, I am not sure if this is what you are asking.

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone!

The pastor of the church where I am a member was very much on board the entire formal process. But the pastor of the church where I am on staff gave me advice very similar to ScottL’s – follow your calling and there’s nothing stopping you from leading right now. He even admitted there advantages to not being ordained; you can lead both inside and outside the structure and not be part of the ‘establishment.’

And to that point, I can’t bless the elements, but I can take them with me after the service and serve communion to people at home. I got to do the pastoral prayer at Easter. I’ve been a part of the laying on of hands with baptisms and such. I’m getting encouraged to preach. I have felt the Holy Spirit move people through me. So, really, there’s nothing stopping me from following my calling – assuming I ever figure out what it really is.

Part of my thing is I already have a degree in engineering and an MBA, along with a gazillion hours in different leadership and technology classes. I worked in R&D with all sorts of complicated concepts, but now I’m retired and my middle-life transition has moved me to the other end of the spectrum. I want to *feel*, not think. I feel closest to God when I make myself shut up and stop thinking.

I am anything but dogmatic and inflexible as I pretty much hated Christians for those things, along with hypocrisy, cruelty et al, most of my life. I thought you all were brainwashed fools and at one point I said I’d never enter a church again. It took until my mid-40s for me to open my heart to God and I was only baptized 3 years ago.

So the last thing I want to claim is that I know the Truth. The jazz example is a good one, but so is rock. Before I could really play, I had to unlearn all the lessons I got and throw away the books. I learned to listen and develop my ear by copying what I heard without thinking about technique or theory.

Here’s that discussion I mentioned: http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-need-to-get-rid-of-some-of-your-theology

Thanks so much for all your comments! I am blown away that you would spend, maybe waste, your time on a newbie like me.

Peace and Grace

I just realized I typed this entire essay without mentioning the word seminary once. Hmm.

Hi Lisa, Thanks for your good observations and insights from ‘inside’.

“I think of it like learning music. You have to learn some fundamentals before you can tear them apart and call it “jazz.””

Great analogy, Jason.

Getting the necessary fundamentals does not necessarily turn one into a pulpit pounding, Bible bashing, foaming at the mouth fundamentalist. It simply establishes some Godly boundaries between truth and error.

God is very precise in His measurements just as the musical scale is, but He gives us a wide range of possibilities as to how to teach and preach His word, as long as we build our own words upon the foundation He has already established. Otherwise our various ministries can wind up off the grid, on one side or another, like the leaning tower of Pisa.

I wish you well in your continuing studies too.

God bless.