Why can’t you be direct in saying that believing in Jesus is doing the work he called us to do?

Jesus : If you have 2, give 1 to the needy. I assure you that if you are rich, you cannot enter the kingdom. The one who has 2 is richer than the one who has nothing(or even the one who has 1)

Christians : Jesus, I believe in you. Your grace is enough for me. I am saved. I am going to heaven.

Jesus : ?????? Won’t you do what I said?

Christians : My works are not going to get me to heaven. Just my faith alone is enough.

Jesus : Faith in what?

Christians : That you delivered us from sins by being the perfect sacrifice on the cross.

Jesus : But, on the judgment day, I will condemn you to hell because you didn’t do the work.

Christians : How can you? You asked us to just to believe in the Good News and we will go to heaven.

Jesus : And, what is that Good News?

Christians : John 3:16

Jesus : I said “Repent, the end days are near.” That is the Good news I preached.

Christians : But billions of us believed in John 3:16

Jesus : Did I not warn that broad is gate/easy is the path that many will go, but narrow is my gate and harder is my path and very few will come through it?

Christians : Errrr

It’s profound question, same as the question I like to ask anyone (in the pew, etc.) – what does it mean to believe in God? Esp. those who claim that they do and those who pretend (it seems to me at least) that they do.

Everyone has a different answer.

To many it means to get means to be ‘happy’ ‘blessed’ ‘prosperous’ ‘thinking-positive’ ‘purpose-driven’ ‘got Message (a la Eugene Peterson), ‘make me tongue-speaking’, ‘get healed’, ‘excited’, ‘entertained’, ‘to go to heaven when we die’ ‘claim the rewards for what we have been putting in heaven’, etc.

To me, to believe in Yeshua means that I come to know Him and the One whom He revealed.

True Lisa, it is not up to the community of believers to go around evaluating the fruit of others, and thus postulating as to who’s in and who’s out. Exceptions to this come in as we are instructed to evaluate teachers and prophets “Watch out for false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing….You will recognize them by their fruit…… every good tree bears good fruit, every bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree is not able to bear bad fruit, nor a bad tree to bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will recognize them by their fruit.”

And yes, we are to examine ourselves. You referred to 2 John (?)…. did you mean 1 John 2 ? I don’t think that the passage is talking about false teachers until 2:18, before that there are evidences of the heart condition which are mentioned. 2:3 “Now by this we know that we have come to know God: if we keep his commandments. The one who says ‘I have come to know God’ and yet does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in such a person. But whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has been perfected. By this we know that we are in him”.

2:15 Do not love the word or the things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him….

So, as far as ‘pointing out fruit’ goes…. that isn’t the task. The call is to evaluate whether the one who is teaching or prophesying is truly of God, by evaluating the fruit…… not just asking if there is good fruit, but seeing if there is bad fruit. At times, I think that we need to exercise this discernment on a micro-level. It is certainly not outside of the realm of possibility that someone leading a small group, or teaching in some arena, might not be a true convert. Such a person should not be in a position of leadership in the church. We are limited, to be sure, in our ability to evaluate the heart condition of another. Sometimes we need to ask for God’s wisdom.

Susan,

Just thinking about these 2 verses here:

Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you – unless you indeed fail the test? (2 Cor 13:5)

Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you…(2 Peter 1:10)

The onus is on the one who claims Christ and not necessarily on the community of believers. Although I do hear what you are saying regarding 2 John but even then, this passage refers to not receiving those that say they believe in Christ but in fact, deny Him. But is the encouragement to point out fruit or the fact that they really don’t believe? The latter definitely, especially if one who doesn’t believe is trying to persuade believers on errors and distortions, which I think John is getting at. But it does seem to be a fine line requiring much discernment.

“The witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son. He who has the Son, has eternal life. He who does not have the Son of God, does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe on the Son of God in order that you may know that you have eternal life.” 1 John 5:11-13

The one who is saved, is the one who has Jesus….. the one who is indwelt by God’s Spirit.

You say: ” Each of us knows whether we have believed those things or not and, if we have, we know we have eternal life.”

Indeed God tells us (Rom 8:16) “The Spirit Himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God’s children.” Some refer to this as the “inner witness of the Holy Spirit”…… by which we have internal assurance of our salvation.

But, what about those who lack this…. who are fraught with doubts…. who find themselves lacking desire for God’s word? Many such persons will state emphatically that they are Christians… after all, they believe all the right things about Jesus…. they go to church… they may recall a ‘conversion experience’…. praying the sinner’s prayer, or responding to an alter call. It is possible to be self-deceived. 1John 1-2 help us to evaluate if we are truly in Christ or not. Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven–only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.”…. then He goes on to describe one who pleads before God that he’s done good works in His name, but ultimately God says “Depart from me I never knew you” Matt: 7:21-23

In some cases Jesus advocates “fruit inspection” as a means of discerning whether one is of God or not. Matt 7:15-20 Sometimes a person needs to take stock of their own life Matt 7:24-27

“Simply saying a prayer does not necessarily assure this reality in the heart of the person saying the prayer.”

No one really argues that this is the case, though. It seems to me that this is one of the common charges levied against those that reject the Calvinist view of perseverance, namely that ‘praying a prayer’ saves. Nowhere in Scripture do we see this nor does the grace position articulate this. It’s folly to point people towards a ‘moment of faith’ (or even a moment of great sorrow and repentance, as the Calvinist might) in order to verify their standing before God.

Scripture never points us toward our works as proof that we have eternal life and we fail the Gospel if we try to force it to do so. The assurance that we have eternal life comes from the fact that His promises are true and that He can deliver upon what He claimed to. Each of us knows whether we have believed those things or not and, if we have, we know we have eternal life. This business of ‘fruit inspection’ which Christendom has become obsessed with needs to be firmly rejected.

George, I agree with you AND I agree with Susan. It is a simple trust in Christ that saves us. I don’t hold to a Lordship view so the idea that we have to show fruit as a basis of salvation is crazy. It is soley His work that creates a repentant heart and Him who grants repentance to one who truly believes. As I mentioned in my earlier comment, it is possible for one to believe but not grow. There has to be an intentionality on our part in response to a converted heart. Nothing captures this more for me than Philippians 2:12-13.

But I think this is a different from those who make a confession of faith who never really believed in the first place. And this is the danger I think Susan is speaking of, not that all our ducks have to be in a row to show THAT we believe but assuring that our heart is aligned with a confession of faith by understanding WHAT we believe, that we are sinners in need of a savior. Only He can truly change us. Simply saying a prayer does not necessarily assure this reality in the heart of the person saying the prayer.

It breaks my heart that there are many in the church who have a false assurance of salvation….. those who believe the right things, but have never come to a place of truly realizing what an unworthy sinner they are. Without that realization, a person doesn’t actually need a Savior. God gives grace to the humble. God resists the proud. This is repentance…. turning from sin, toward Jesus. It comes from a heart which has become deeply convicted of sin…. which is a work of God’s Spirit.

I’m going to join in here alongside Chris.

The issue of eternal life really does boil down to simple faith, not the complicated kind that involves a change of lifestyle, repentance, etc. This Puritanical view of faith is totally foreign to the gospel message. The grace view, contrasted with the Lordship view, is often mischaracterized as ‘easy believism’ or ‘cheap grace’. Susan presented this sentiment earlier when she said “It cost Jesus SO much”, which is correct. But it’s a mistake to conclude from this that Jesus requires anything from the believer other than simple trust.

No one argues that fellowship with God doesn’t depend upon repentance. But eternal life is predicated upon simple faith, not upon perseverance. The real tragedy in all of this is that so many Christians are defrauded out of their assurance because they don’t think they show the right amount of fruit. They hear things like “If there’s no fruit, there’s no faith” and “The gospel is ‘Hard to Believe’”, etc. But, the foundation for godly living is knowing that we have eternal life that can never be lost. It breaks my heart to see the millions of Christians that have been confused by so many pushing a gospel that only masquerades to be by ‘grace alone’.

Neil,
Wise words. I’m reminded of what my mom told me when she explained her conversion to her young yet wise pastor. She explained how haphazardly she was handled by the pastor when she “came forward” to recieve salvation . He said, “God saved you not because of what they did but in spite of it.” I thought this was great. Not that God saves outside of faith in Christ but it seems that some can butcher the message and botch the “procedure” ( for lack of a better word) when helping someone to Christ and yet He still transforms lives. It is indeed HIS work and not ours.