Comments on: “Belief is No Good Without Practice” . . . and Other Stupid Statements (Part I'm Done) http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-im-done/ Making Theology Accessible Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:19:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Susan http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-im-done/comment-page-1/#comment-10801 Susan Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:19:17 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1932#comment-10801 Karen.... an 'old woman'? Thanks for your wisdom, and welcome to the conversation! You certainly haven't done wrong! Karen…. an ‘old woman’? Thanks for your wisdom, and welcome to the conversation! You certainly haven’t done wrong!

]]> By: Karen http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-im-done/comment-page-1/#comment-10800 Karen Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:14:33 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1932#comment-10800 Lisa, Thank you in kind for letting me know that my post was not out of line, and for your kind words. It is my prayer that what touched you is the work of the Holy Spirit, for I should not want (my) words to humble any one. For it is with great pleasure I read each post so that I might learn from brighter minds. In His Service Lisa,

Thank you in kind for letting me know that my post was not
out of line, and for your kind words.

It is my prayer that what touched you is the work of the Holy
Spirit, for I should not want (my) words to humble any one.
For it is with great pleasure I read each post so that I might
learn from brighter minds.
In His Service

]]> By: Lisa Robinson http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-im-done/comment-page-1/#comment-10799 Lisa Robinson Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:36:38 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1932#comment-10799 Karen, I think your post is the best comment here. You're right, sometimes we just get too smart and your words should humble us all. Thank you for such a beautiful response. Karen,

I think your post is the best comment here. You’re right, sometimes we just get too smart and your words should humble us all. Thank you for such a beautiful response.

]]> By: ChrisB http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-im-done/comment-page-1/#comment-10798 ChrisB Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:57:38 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1932#comment-10798 Remember when Congress was appalled by <a href="http://homewardbound-cb.blogspot.com/2008/01/prosperity-preachers-consistent.html" rel="nofollow">health and wealth teachers with golden toilets and jets</a>? You're right: What we believe affects how we live, whether there is an immediate "application" or not. Remember when Congress was appalled by health and wealth teachers with golden toilets and jets?

You’re right: What we believe affects how we live, whether there is an immediate “application” or not.

]]> By: Karen http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-im-done/comment-page-1/#comment-10797 Karen Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:27:15 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1932#comment-10797 I just found your page and hope to learn much from it. I wish I could expound on the subject as intellectually as others on here. But I am just a simple person. So I am sure that I will need correction. Please do so. What I believe is that my pursuit is to achieve salvation through a relationship with Christ. To know and accept my sinful nature is in rebellion against God. That Jesus came to redeem me, and rebuild the connection between God and man. By accepting Christ as my savior in faith, I will rebuild that lost relationship. In the rebuilding of that relationship I will be given the Holy Spirit, and in the Spirit I will be shown my sinful nature and in return with the help of the Spirit I will begin to (want) to change that nature. I will not want to identify with my nature (sinfulness) any longer. So my work starts with change within my self and never ends, but then extends outward. But in order for that change to be the righteousness from God I must make sure that I understand the nature and character of God. So not to misrepresent God. If I represent God in His truth, that will produce good fruit, and if I misrepresent His true nature I will reproduce bad fruit. In relationship, it is my responsability and my desire to understand who God really is ( right doctrine, or orthodoxy), right doctrine will produce right thinking and right actions, so right doctrine and right works are in right harmony. I must study God's word in faith with prayer for discernment of true understanding of whom the God I worship. In God's truth there will be (good) works. With orthodoxy, we have guide lines to help us from going off track. But I also know of stories of Christians that were denied the bible and still gave there life to the Lord. Unable to read His word. I think that God gave them the help of the Spirit in truth to produce good fruit. But I believe my Jesus can do any thing. So in humility I ask, if my focus is kept on the need to glorify God, won't He lead me in correction? All my life I have never questioned the truth of the bible. Maybe God led me here so I can read and learn how to better articulate in truth and in love to all these questions. I am not at all sure that I should post this. If I have done wrong please forgive and old woman. In His service Ephesians 2 I just found your page and hope to learn much from it. I wish I could expound on the subject as intellectually as others on here. But I am just a simple person. So I am sure that I will need correction. Please do so.
What I believe is that my pursuit is to achieve salvation through a relationship with Christ. To know and accept my sinful nature is in rebellion against God. That Jesus came to redeem me, and rebuild the connection between God and man. By accepting Christ as my savior in faith, I will rebuild that lost relationship. In the rebuilding of that relationship I will be given the Holy Spirit, and in the Spirit I will be shown my sinful nature and in return with the help of the Spirit I will begin to (want) to change that nature. I will not want to identify with my nature (sinfulness) any longer. So my work starts with change within my self and never ends, but then extends outward. But in order for that change to be the righteousness from God I must make sure that I understand the nature and character of God. So not to misrepresent God. If I represent God in His truth, that will
produce good fruit, and if I misrepresent His true nature I will
reproduce bad fruit. In relationship, it is my responsability
and my desire to understand who God really is ( right doctrine, or
orthodoxy), right doctrine will produce right thinking and right actions, so right doctrine and right works are in right harmony. I must study God’s word in faith with prayer for discernment of true understanding of whom the God I worship. In God’s truth
there will be (good) works. With orthodoxy, we have guide lines
to help us from going off track.
But I also know of stories of Christians that were denied the
bible and still gave there life to the Lord. Unable to read His
word. I think that God gave them the help of the Spirit in
truth to produce good fruit. But I believe my Jesus can do any thing.
So in humility I ask, if my focus is kept on the need to glorify
God, won’t He lead me in correction? All my life I have never
questioned the truth of the bible. Maybe God led me here
so I can read and learn how to better articulate in truth and in
love to all these questions. I am not at all sure that I should
post this. If I have done wrong please forgive and old woman.

In His service

Ephesians 2

]]> By: Douglas K. Adu-Boahen http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-im-done/comment-page-1/#comment-10796 Douglas K. Adu-Boahen Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:08:21 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1932#comment-10796 Kara, Both. Because salvation is not on the basis of philanthropy, but on the basis of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus. Yes, we may suffer loss of rewards for not doing good, BUT if BOTH people truly believed in the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, then yes they are both saved. Kara,

Both. Because salvation is not on the basis of philanthropy, but on the basis of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus. Yes, we may suffer loss of rewards for not doing good, BUT if BOTH people truly believed in the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, then yes they are both saved.

]]> By: Lisa Robinson http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-im-done/comment-page-1/#comment-10795 Lisa Robinson Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:24:44 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1932#comment-10795 She had a sister called Mary, who was seated at the Lord's feet, listening to His word (Luke 10:39) Jesus said "but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her (Luke 10:42). Seems to me that Jesus is indicating that Mary was doing was good and indicative of the necessary thing. I think it shows a priority of learning from Jesus over engaging in activity. The fact that it shall not be taken away from her means it is her to keep, ie it has eternal value. To passage says that Mary was at the feet of Jesus listening to him. To say that Mary is feeding Jesus is reading into the text something that it is not saying. If anything, it was Mary who was being fed because she was at Jesus' feet listening to Him. She had a sister called Mary, who was seated at the Lord’s feet, listening to His word (Luke 10:39)

Jesus said “but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her (Luke 10:42).

Seems to me that Jesus is indicating that Mary was doing was good and indicative of the necessary thing. I think it shows a priority of learning from Jesus over engaging in activity. The fact that it shall not be taken away from her means it is her to keep, ie it has eternal value.

To passage says that Mary was at the feet of Jesus listening to him. To say that Mary is feeding Jesus is reading into the text something that it is not saying. If anything, it was Mary who was being fed because she was at Jesus’ feet listening to Him.

]]> By: Kara Kittle http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-im-done/comment-page-1/#comment-10794 Kara Kittle Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:26:51 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1932#comment-10794 Let's ask this question...a person who is saved at 18 and lives their life doing all the things the church required of them, but short of doing the things the Gospel requires. Sometimes wavers in faith, but manages to find his way back. But just never really getting out of his comfort zone to pray for sick neighbors or say anything out of fear of being politically correct. This person dies at 80. Now a person who lives a life of sin and debauchery, drunkeness and wickedness. But at 79, gives his heart to the Lord and becomes born again and does not live anymore like he did because he loves the Lord...and he dies a week later at 80. Which one was the Lord going allow in heaven? Let’s ask this question…a person who is saved at 18 and lives their life doing all the things the church required of them, but short of doing the things the Gospel requires. Sometimes wavers in faith, but manages to find his way back. But just never really getting out of his comfort zone to pray for sick neighbors or say anything out of fear of being politically correct. This person dies at 80.

Now a person who lives a life of sin and debauchery, drunkeness and wickedness. But at 79, gives his heart to the Lord and becomes born again and does not live anymore like he did because he loves the Lord…and he dies a week later at 80.

Which one was the Lord going allow in heaven?

]]> By: Chris http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-im-done/comment-page-1/#comment-10793 Chris Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:01:55 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1932#comment-10793 I am going to have to go with another commenter who said most of us live in the middle. However, I also am about up to here with (and forgive me Dr. Foltz because I do not think you intended to convey this message): "True belief always leads to true practice. When a person says he is saved, but never goes to church, never yields his life to the Lord, he has deceived himself." The idea that church is the end goal of right practice, instead of being a stopping off place at the beginning of the week to rest and refresh and worship, before heading back to the world and taking care of the least of these, both spiritually and physically. I am going to have to go with another commenter who said most of us live in the middle.

However, I also am about up to here with (and forgive me Dr. Foltz because I do not think you intended to convey this message):

“True belief always leads to true practice. When a person
says he is saved, but never goes to church, never yields his
life to the Lord, he has deceived himself.”

The idea that church is the end goal of right practice, instead of being a stopping off place at the beginning of the week to rest and refresh and worship, before heading back to the world and taking care of the least of these, both spiritually and physically.

]]> By: Douglas K. Adu-Boahen http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-im-done/comment-page-1/#comment-10792 Douglas K. Adu-Boahen Sun, 15 Mar 2009 02:27:35 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1932#comment-10792 Mr Patton, I have been truly edified by these posts, of late. I am truly convinced that Christians have used "postmodernism", "relationship" and other buzzwords to excuse their ignorance of Biblical matters, and as a young person, (apologies in advance), it ticks me off. Yes, God wants us to experience Him. Yes, God wants a warm relationship - not just an intellectual assent to His existence. BUT that doesn't mean we do not study to show ourselves approved unto the Lord? Does that mean we can have any old beliefs at the excuse of "just loving". Love without truth isn't love - it's ultimately an expression of ignorance. God wants a relationship with us, but "How you gon' have a relationship with Him you don't know the faintest thing about..." Now I can anticipate those who would say that "not all knowledge can be perceived with the mind" or something similar, however the inverse is also true - "not all knowledge can be perceived through feelings, intuitions, etc" You need BOTH orthodoxy and orthopraxy. Great stuff, Mr Patton. Mr Patton,

I have been truly edified by these posts, of late. I am truly convinced that Christians have used “postmodernism”, “relationship” and other buzzwords to excuse their ignorance of Biblical matters, and as a young person, (apologies in advance), it ticks me off.

Yes, God wants us to experience Him. Yes, God wants a warm relationship – not just an intellectual assent to His existence. BUT that doesn’t mean we do not study to show ourselves approved unto the Lord? Does that mean we can have any old beliefs at the excuse of “just loving”. Love without truth isn’t love – it’s ultimately an expression of ignorance. God wants a relationship with us, but “How you gon’ have a relationship with Him you don’t know the faintest thing about…”

Now I can anticipate those who would say that “not all knowledge can be perceived with the mind” or something similar, however the inverse is also true – “not all knowledge can be perceived through feelings, intuitions, etc” You need BOTH orthodoxy and orthopraxy.

Great stuff, Mr Patton.

]]>