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	<title>Comments on: “Belief is No Good Without Practice” . . . and Other Stupid Statements (Part Deux)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/</link>
	<description>Making Theology Accessible</description>
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		<title>By: Dr. G.</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10233</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1880#comment-10233</guid>
		<description>CHP:

1) Would &quot;going to heaven&quot; be a &quot;practice&quot; that only a believer could do?  To be sure, this is done for us, as much as by ourselves; and is only our &quot;own&quot; act, partially.

2) In any case though, isn&#039;t there the constant danger here that by over-emphasizing the right orientation - faith, etc. - will keep us from ever doing anything?  Since finding that orientation, is seemingly an infinite matter.  Paralysis by analysis.

We study Theology no doubt for example, to try to find out how to be Good and have right belief; and yet the search becomes an endless web, from which we never emerge.

Theology like most academic subjects, being infinitely complex, and never firmly deciding much of anything, therefore we never do know where to put our foot down and act.  And therefore, never do anything at all?

And is a Christianity that is all theory, all in the mind ... but that never - or rarely - finds its way to the &quot;world&quot; of &quot;works&quot; ... what the Bible had in mind?

Is it proper to be a Theologian, in other words?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CHP:</p>
<p>1) Would &#8220;going to heaven&#8221; be a &#8220;practice&#8221; that only a believer could do?  To be sure, this is done for us, as much as by ourselves; and is only our &#8220;own&#8221; act, partially.</p>
<p>2) In any case though, isn&#8217;t there the constant danger here that by over-emphasizing the right orientation &#8211; faith, etc. &#8211; will keep us from ever doing anything?  Since finding that orientation, is seemingly an infinite matter.  Paralysis by analysis.</p>
<p>We study Theology no doubt for example, to try to find out how to be Good and have right belief; and yet the search becomes an endless web, from which we never emerge.</p>
<p>Theology like most academic subjects, being infinitely complex, and never firmly deciding much of anything, therefore we never do know where to put our foot down and act.  And therefore, never do anything at all?</p>
<p>And is a Christianity that is all theory, all in the mind &#8230; but that never &#8211; or rarely &#8211; finds its way to the &#8220;world&#8221; of &#8220;works&#8221; &#8230; what the Bible had in mind?</p>
<p>Is it proper to be a Theologian, in other words?</p>
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		<title>By: Kara Kittle</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10232</link>
		<dc:creator>Kara Kittle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1880#comment-10232</guid>
		<description>Dr. G
We might disagree on abortion theology and the origins of the soul, but at least you get it that there&#039;s more to this than just thinking.

Didn&#039;t Jesus say somewhere the doers of the word were justified?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. G<br />
We might disagree on abortion theology and the origins of the soul, but at least you get it that there&#8217;s more to this than just thinking.</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t Jesus say somewhere the doers of the word were justified?</p>
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		<title>By: Kara Kittle</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10231</link>
		<dc:creator>Kara Kittle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1880#comment-10231</guid>
		<description>What is practice of sin? You mean you are practicing so you can get perfect at it? Or like a doctor who practices medicine...you do it after years of study on how to do it.

I don&#039;t think in the Christian vocabulary practice and sin go together. Seeing as how we aren&#039;t supposed to be sinning anyway.

Definition in case you don&#039;t get it yet
 VERB:
prac·ticed , prac·tic·ing , prac·tic·es
VERB:
tr.

   1. To do or perform habitually or customarily; make a habit of: practices courtesy in social situations.
   2. To do or perform (something) repeatedly in order to acquire or polish a skill: practice a dance step.
   3. To give lessons or repeated instructions to; drill: practiced the students in handwriting.
   4. To work at, especially as a profession: practice law.
   5. To carry out in action; observe: practices a religion piously.
   6. Obsolete To plot (something evil).

So to &quot;practice&quot; sin you:

1:habitually perform sin
2:sin repeatedly to acquire skill at it
3:teach others how to sin
4:work at sinning
5:to carry out sin
6:plot ways to sin


Tell me where in the Bible this is possible as a Christian when Jesus said not to sin any more?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is practice of sin? You mean you are practicing so you can get perfect at it? Or like a doctor who practices medicine&#8230;you do it after years of study on how to do it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think in the Christian vocabulary practice and sin go together. Seeing as how we aren&#8217;t supposed to be sinning anyway.</p>
<p>Definition in case you don&#8217;t get it yet<br />
 VERB:<br />
prac·ticed , prac·tic·ing , prac·tic·es<br />
VERB:<br />
tr.</p>
<p>   1. To do or perform habitually or customarily; make a habit of: practices courtesy in social situations.<br />
   2. To do or perform (something) repeatedly in order to acquire or polish a skill: practice a dance step.<br />
   3. To give lessons or repeated instructions to; drill: practiced the students in handwriting.<br />
   4. To work at, especially as a profession: practice law.<br />
   5. To carry out in action; observe: practices a religion piously.<br />
   6. Obsolete To plot (something evil).</p>
<p>So to &#8220;practice&#8221; sin you:</p>
<p>1:habitually perform sin<br />
2:sin repeatedly to acquire skill at it<br />
3:teach others how to sin<br />
4:work at sinning<br />
5:to carry out sin<br />
6:plot ways to sin</p>
<p>Tell me where in the Bible this is possible as a Christian when Jesus said not to sin any more?</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. G.</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10230</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1880#comment-10230</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not usually this flip.  But for once:

So just sitting around and doing nothing is good enough?

Just &quot;being&quot;? Or say, &quot;being faithful&quot;?

I&#039;m glad.  I thought I was going to have to do something.

Just sit around and feel holy?  OK; I got it!  Not so hard!

Hey!  It&#039;s a wide gate after all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not usually this flip.  But for once:</p>
<p>So just sitting around and doing nothing is good enough?</p>
<p>Just &#8220;being&#8221;? Or say, &#8220;being faithful&#8221;?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad.  I thought I was going to have to do something.</p>
<p>Just sit around and feel holy?  OK; I got it!  Not so hard!</p>
<p>Hey!  It&#8217;s a wide gate after all!</p>
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		<title>By: rayner markley</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10229</link>
		<dc:creator>rayner markley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 02:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1880#comment-10229</guid>
		<description>1) That&#039;s right.

2) &#039;...what you believe makes all the difference, not what you do. “Do” only finds meaning in belief. Outside of such it is rubbish.&#039;

Well, it&#039;s not rubbish to the beneficiary. What you believe makes no difference at all to the beneficiary of a &#039;good&#039; work. People who receive aid in time of disaster benefit regardless of what the donors believe. Thus, practice certainly has intrinsic value to the beneficiary. But not to the donor, of course. We&#039;re not talking about value to the donor I hope.

The phrase &#039;Belief without practice is no good&#039; may mean that it&#039;s wrong to just believe and not to practice one&#039;s belief.  You agree with that principle when you say that one who truly believes will act correctly. Practice is a necessary part of belief. If we do not practice, we do not truly understand God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) That&#8217;s right.</p>
<p>2) &#8216;&#8230;what you believe makes all the difference, not what you do. “Do” only finds meaning in belief. Outside of such it is rubbish.&#8217;</p>
<p>Well, it&#8217;s not rubbish to the beneficiary. What you believe makes no difference at all to the beneficiary of a &#8216;good&#8217; work. People who receive aid in time of disaster benefit regardless of what the donors believe. Thus, practice certainly has intrinsic value to the beneficiary. But not to the donor, of course. We&#8217;re not talking about value to the donor I hope.</p>
<p>The phrase &#8216;Belief without practice is no good&#8217; may mean that it&#8217;s wrong to just believe and not to practice one&#8217;s belief.  You agree with that principle when you say that one who truly believes will act correctly. Practice is a necessary part of belief. If we do not practice, we do not truly understand God.</p>
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		<title>By: C Michael Patton</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10228</link>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 02:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1880#comment-10228</guid>
		<description>Ryan,

1) &quot;So, one may produce right practice without right belief! Then right belief isn&#039;t always foundational for right practice. If right belief were foundational, then we would always be able to tell belief from practice.&quot; So you agree that there are no works that an believer can practice that an unbeliever can&#039;t?&quot;

2) &quot;So, one may produce right practice without right belief! Then right belief isn’t always foundational for right practice. If right belief were foundational, then we would always be able to tell belief from practice.&quot; That is my point, right practice is not really &quot;right&quot; from the outside, but its foundational motive being grounded in truth makes it right. Therefore, what you believe makes all the difference, not what you do. &quot;Do&quot; only finds meaning in belief. Outside of such it is rubbish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan,</p>
<p>1) &#8220;So, one may produce right practice without right belief! Then right belief isn&#8217;t always foundational for right practice. If right belief were foundational, then we would always be able to tell belief from practice.&#8221; So you agree that there are no works that an believer can practice that an unbeliever can&#8217;t?&#8221;</p>
<p>2) &#8220;So, one may produce right practice without right belief! Then right belief isn’t always foundational for right practice. If right belief were foundational, then we would always be able to tell belief from practice.&#8221; That is my point, right practice is not really &#8220;right&#8221; from the outside, but its foundational motive being grounded in truth makes it right. Therefore, what you believe makes all the difference, not what you do. &#8220;Do&#8221; only finds meaning in belief. Outside of such it is rubbish.</p>
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		<title>By: rayner markley</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10227</link>
		<dc:creator>rayner markley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 00:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1880#comment-10227</guid>
		<description>Michael: &#039;Sure, by practice alone, no one can tell who is a believer and who is not.&#039;

So, one may produce right practice without right belief! Then right belief isn&#039;t always foundational for right practice. If right belief were foundational, then we would always be able to tell belief from practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael: &#8216;Sure, by practice alone, no one can tell who is a believer and who is not.&#8217;</p>
<p>So, one may produce right practice without right belief! Then right belief isn&#8217;t always foundational for right practice. If right belief were foundational, then we would always be able to tell belief from practice.</p>
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		<title>By: Truth Unites... and Divides</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10226</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth Unites... and Divides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:30:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1880#comment-10226</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;CMP&lt;/b&gt;:  &quot;&lt;i&gt;I would challenge people to find me an example of a practice that only believers can or do do consistantly.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

(Answering in Jeopardy Show format) What is the practice of sin?

[Of course unbelievers sin as well, but ONLY  &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;believers&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; can and do sin consistently AND YET who will still have a saving relationship with God in Heaven.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>CMP</b>:  &#8220;<i>I would challenge people to find me an example of a practice that only believers can or do do consistantly.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>(Answering in Jeopardy Show format) What is the practice of sin?</p>
<p>[Of course unbelievers sin as well, but ONLY  <b><i>believers</i></b> can and do sin consistently AND YET who will still have a saving relationship with God in Heaven.]</p>
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		<title>By: DREW</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10225</link>
		<dc:creator>DREW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1880#comment-10225</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this. I agree completely. Everyone wants to live the &quot;right&quot; way without having to &quot;know&quot; or have a relationship with God based on specific facts about Him. I am so thankful that you address this very well. Could you do a follow up post explaining how James and other &quot;prescriptive&quot; passages actually support having to know God?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this. I agree completely. Everyone wants to live the &#8220;right&#8221; way without having to &#8220;know&#8221; or have a relationship with God based on specific facts about Him. I am so thankful that you address this very well. Could you do a follow up post explaining how James and other &#8220;prescriptive&#8221; passages actually support having to know God?</p>
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		<title>By: Jason C</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/03/%e2%80%9cbelief-is-no-good-without-practice%e2%80%9d-and-other-stupid-statements-part-deux-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10224</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 19:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1880#comment-10224</guid>
		<description>Semetic totality concept. Or in other words, a belief that does not produce right conduct indicates that the &quot;believer&quot; does not have right belief.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Semetic totality concept. Or in other words, a belief that does not produce right conduct indicates that the &#8220;believer&#8221; does not have right belief.</p>
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