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	<title>Comments on: Why I am Not Charismatic (Part 4): Excursus</title>
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	<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/12/why-i-am-not-charismatic-part-4-excursus/</link>
	<description>Making Theology Accessible</description>
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		<title>By: C Michael Patton</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/12/why-i-am-not-charismatic-part-4-excursus/comment-page-2/#comment-38381</link>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 14:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1563#comment-38381</guid>
		<description>Okay, Jonathan has been put on the blacklist for not following the rules and spamming the blog with comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-38381" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('38381', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-38381-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>Okay, Jonathan has been put on the blacklist for not following the rules and spamming the blog with comments.</p>
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		<title>By: EricW</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/12/why-i-am-not-charismatic-part-4-excursus/comment-page-2/#comment-38379</link>
		<dc:creator>EricW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1563#comment-38379</guid>
		<description>Or maybe the &quot;Send&quot; key on the email program is stuck and keeps sending files from &quot;My Documents&quot; one after the other....

But I&#039;m still thinking OCD. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-38379" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('38379', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-38379-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>Or maybe the &#8220;Send&#8221; key on the email program is stuck and keeps sending files from &#8220;My Documents&#8221; one after the other&#8230;.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m still thinking OCD. <img src='http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Michael T</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/12/why-i-am-not-charismatic-part-4-excursus/comment-page-2/#comment-38361</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1563#comment-38361</guid>
		<description>Seriously doesn&#039;t anybody read the rules about chain posting?? And this is a two year old post!!  I smell a troll.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-38361" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('38361', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-38361-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>Seriously doesn&#8217;t anybody read the rules about chain posting?? And this is a two year old post!!  I smell a troll&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: EricW</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/12/why-i-am-not-charismatic-part-4-excursus/comment-page-2/#comment-38354</link>
		<dc:creator>EricW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 02:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1563#comment-38354</guid>
		<description>OCD?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-38354" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('38354', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-38354-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>OCD?</p>
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		<title>By: mbaker</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/12/why-i-am-not-charismatic-part-4-excursus/comment-page-2/#comment-33540</link>
		<dc:creator>mbaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 01:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1563#comment-33540</guid>
		<description>For those of you who don&#039;t understand what we are talking about, charismatic or not, it is not a formula type thing, like some want to make  it but a biblical point of view, four letter or three letter words aside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-33540" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('33540', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-33540-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>For those of you who don&#8217;t understand what we are talking about, charismatic or not, it is not a formula type thing, like some want to make  it but a biblical point of view, four letter or three letter words aside.</p>
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		<title>By: mbaker</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/12/why-i-am-not-charismatic-part-4-excursus/comment-page-2/#comment-33538</link>
		<dc:creator>mbaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 01:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1563#comment-33538</guid>
		<description>Michael T.  

Get you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-33538" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('33538', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-33538-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>Michael T.  </p>
<p>Get you!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael T.</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/12/why-i-am-not-charismatic-part-4-excursus/comment-page-2/#comment-33535</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 01:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1563#comment-33535</guid>
		<description>mbaker,
The reason I won&#039;t repeat it on this site is because the last letter stands for an expletive.  I&#039;ll give you a hint - Rob Bell used it at a Catalyst Conference not too long ago sparking a rather heated debate on Out of Ur (the Christianity Today Leadership Blog).  The reason it came to mind was because the chain posted ramblings of CHM about Paul Washer (who I&#039;ve really never heard of) and the sinner&#039;s prayer really have nothing to do with the content of this post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-33535" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('33535', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-33535-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>mbaker,<br />
The reason I won&#8217;t repeat it on this site is because the last letter stands for an expletive.  I&#8217;ll give you a hint &#8211; Rob Bell used it at a Catalyst Conference not too long ago sparking a rather heated debate on Out of Ur (the Christianity Today Leadership Blog).  The reason it came to mind was because the chain posted ramblings of CHM about Paul Washer (who I&#8217;ve really never heard of) and the sinner&#8217;s prayer really have nothing to do with the content of this post.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan CHM</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/12/why-i-am-not-charismatic-part-4-excursus/comment-page-2/#comment-33534</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan CHM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 00:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1563#comment-33534</guid>
		<description>I do.&quot;  Even though Paul did sin, Paul is still considered to be a Christian.  As Paul himself could fall into sin, it implies that a person is still considered to be a Christian due to his initial acceptance of Jesus Christ to be his Personal Saviour through sinner&#039;s prayer even though he might or will sin in the future.

Does this mean Christians should give way to sin? No, God forbids since John 14:15, “(mentions that) If ye love me, keep my commandments.” and the same is supported in John 15:10, “(that mentions that) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.”

Nevertheless, sinner’s prayer is the way to be born again since it demands a non-Christian to request for the receipt of the Holy Spirit. However, once a person is converted, he has to obey God’s commandments. He might sin in the future and yet his salvation is permanent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-33534" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('33534', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-33534-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>I do.&#8221;  Even though Paul did sin, Paul is still considered to be a Christian.  As Paul himself could fall into sin, it implies that a person is still considered to be a Christian due to his initial acceptance of Jesus Christ to be his Personal Saviour through sinner&#8217;s prayer even though he might or will sin in the future.</p>
<p>Does this mean Christians should give way to sin? No, God forbids since John 14:15, “(mentions that) If ye love me, keep my commandments.” and the same is supported in John 15:10, “(that mentions that) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.”</p>
<p>Nevertheless, sinner’s prayer is the way to be born again since it demands a non-Christian to request for the receipt of the Holy Spirit. However, once a person is converted, he has to obey God’s commandments. He might sin in the future and yet his salvation is permanent.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan CHM</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/12/why-i-am-not-charismatic-part-4-excursus/comment-page-2/#comment-33533</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan CHM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 00:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1563#comment-33533</guid>
		<description>Prior to praying sinner&#039;s prayer, a person has to repent from sinning, such as, continuing in worshipping idols and etc.  Repentance is the foremost significance for the conversion to Christianity.  Without repentance, a non-Christian might pray a hundred times sinner&#039;s prayer, God would not listen to him since John 9:31, “(mentions that)…God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.”  Sinner&#039;s prayer is only effective when a person fully repents from sinning, such as, discontinuing in worshipping idols and etc., and he then says sinner&#039;s prayer, God would then come and dwell into his life.

When a person becomes a Christian through sinner&#039;s prayer, he is a Christian even though he might sin in the future and he will never fall away for his promise.  This is supported by 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 as follows:
1 Corinthians 3:12-15, “Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. IF ANY MAN’S WORK SHALL BE BURNED, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire.”

If you have read the book of Romans, you would have discovered even Paul himself was struggling with sin.  The following is the extract: 
Romans 7:18-20, &quot;For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.&quot;
Indeed, Paul did sin against God since Romans 7:19, &quot;(mentions that) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-33533" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('33533', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-33533-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>Prior to praying sinner&#8217;s prayer, a person has to repent from sinning, such as, continuing in worshipping idols and etc.  Repentance is the foremost significance for the conversion to Christianity.  Without repentance, a non-Christian might pray a hundred times sinner&#8217;s prayer, God would not listen to him since John 9:31, “(mentions that)…God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.”  Sinner&#8217;s prayer is only effective when a person fully repents from sinning, such as, discontinuing in worshipping idols and etc., and he then says sinner&#8217;s prayer, God would then come and dwell into his life.</p>
<p>When a person becomes a Christian through sinner&#8217;s prayer, he is a Christian even though he might sin in the future and he will never fall away for his promise.  This is supported by 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 as follows:<br />
1 Corinthians 3:12-15, “Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. IF ANY MAN’S WORK SHALL BE BURNED, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire.”</p>
<p>If you have read the book of Romans, you would have discovered even Paul himself was struggling with sin.  The following is the extract:<br />
Romans 7:18-20, &#8220;For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.&#8221;<br />
Indeed, Paul did sin against God since Romans 7:19, &#8220;(mentions that) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: mbaker</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/12/why-i-am-not-charismatic-part-4-excursus/comment-page-2/#comment-33457</link>
		<dc:creator>mbaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 01:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=1563#comment-33457</guid>
		<description>Or to add, not that I  agree that being charismatic as far as continuationism is necessarily believing in unbiblical things, although admittedly the modern hyper-charismatics have made believing in the &#039;sign&#039; gifts a bad thing instead of using them as the Lord originally intended.  I think the church has wrongly identified with that unintended misuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-33457" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('33457', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-33457-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>Or to add, not that I  agree that being charismatic as far as continuationism is necessarily believing in unbiblical things, although admittedly the modern hyper-charismatics have made believing in the &#8216;sign&#8217; gifts a bad thing instead of using them as the Lord originally intended.  I think the church has wrongly identified with that unintended misuse.</p>
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