Comments on: The Offense of Christmas

By: C. Barton

C. Barton — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:15:11 +0000

Mary B.: not to disregard the intent of your message, but what do you call a President who openly avows allegiance to a one-world government, one-world economy, and one-world religion? I mean, one of our best known leaders virtually said that all religions lead to God, tacitly denying the unique lordship and salvation of our Lord, Jesus, Christ; and this former President was called “Christian” by many. I suggest we all look a little closer.
And all organizations that “embrace all faiths as equal” are not giving honor to the Gospel message, and thus to God himself: this can seem like a good thing, but in the end it is the spirit of antichrist.
The phrase, “All roads lead to Rome” might be more appropriate in this context, no?

By: Mary B.

Mary B. — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 06:08:50 +0000

Shawn,

It’s interesting that you feel that religious people are “second-class citizens”, because I sometimes have the same belief from the other point of view – that atheists are second-class citizens. Can you imagine a president being elected now who is openly atheist? We have a de facto religious requirement to achieve the highest office in our country. And I am constantly aware of the need to repel religious efforts to pass laws that will force me or others, in effect, to behave like a religious person (laws against abortion and laws against homosexual marriage come to mind).

I think there’s a fair amount of perceptual bias coming into play here.

By: Jason C

Jason C — Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:07:43 +0000

I must concur with Steph, as a fellow New Zealander it is easy to wish others a Merry Christmas, and those I know of other religious traditions are not offended. They know that Christmas is a Christian celebration, and also know that they’re free to join in if they like.

Although there are secularists over here they seem willing to follow the general rough and ready Kiwi form of tolerance. That is pretty much if you’re not a complete AH we’ll give you a hearing. They also seem far less vocal, although there is a woman called Vicki Hyde who gets on the radio and tries to drive a wedge between science and Christianity. Her host doesn’t tell people that she’s a member of the New Zealand sceptics and therefore her ruminations on God should be taken with a grain (or salt cellar) of salt.

European Christians didn’t knuckle under when Communists went through and tried to crush them. The Church could itself be described as an anvil that has worn out many hammers. When Europe is an Islamic paradise, with a Imam on every street corner, where secularists convert or die (they’ll convert, it’s not as if they’re living for anything greater than their lives) we can look at them and laugh.

By: C. Barton

C. Barton — Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:14:40 +0000

Oops! Steph, I wanted to share Isaiah 49, which calls Jesus the “Light of the Gentiles”, after saying it isn’t enough just to save Israel, but the whole world would benefit from the Gospel (also in Genesis, the promise to Abraham). The apostle Paul makes it clear that this “mystery” of global salvation was his special ministry to the Gentiles.
Anyone ever get lost in an unfamiliar town and turn onto a dead end street? When you see your error, you turn around and go back to the correct road, right? Repentance??

By: C. Barton

C. Barton — Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:00:28 +0000

If I may add: the accounts of Jesus’ resurrection and ascension came about in writing too quickly and consistently to be adaptive myths, etc. These written testimonies were given by living authors for the express purpose of evidence for faith in the risen Jesus. It all conforms to the formal rules of evidence, no less.
Regarding the “offence” of the Gospel – in Germany, it is a “hate crime” to share the Gospel of Jesus, especially to a Muslim, or anyone else who is “offended” by God’s salvation message. In the United Kingdom, you can be jailed for handing out tracts or sharing the Gospel door-to-door, etc., although the Bobbies are rather polite and will let you off with a warning the first time around.
Remember, the rights to freedom of speech and assembly are unique to the USA: or are they? In Orange County, California, it is against the law to have a Bible study or a Church gathering in your home. Also, the “hate crime” aspect of gagging evangelists is attractive to some in our government; also, rejection of evolution, new world order, and the coming one-world religion will constitute mental illness, so that Christians who remain faithful to Christ can be labelled “out of touch with reality” – so my point is that the Gospel of Jesus is not only offensive to the world at large, they are actively engaged in snuffing us out. They hate it!

By: Bent Notes » Blog Archive » Can I spread the contents of my stocking on the coffee table before I flagellate myself?

Thu, 25 Dec 2008 15:15:23 +0000

[...] I came across a post at the theological blog Parchment and Pen that said forthrightly – even in sort of a bragging tone – that if the easily offended postmodern [...]

By: steph

steph — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:33:48 +0000

In the first century I don’t know if I’d believe Paul. Not if I knew Jesus. The biblical texts are not fantasy. They are historical. I am interested in history. I am interested in Jesus. Jesus believed in things I’d believe in the first century too. He believed his mission was to bring Jewish people back to God (tuv, the Aramaic origin of ‘repent’). The sources suggest he was an apocalyptic prophet who believed people would suffer, believed in judgement, and predicted the temple would fall (but not be burned, which it was). I prefer to think of myself as agnostic. The resurrection stories are developments of traditions about visions. The Life of the Historical Jesus by Casey, is due out in 2010 and puts forward all the reasons for this and all of his demonstrations coincide with my own work and thinking.

Have a very merry Christmas!

By: Dave Z

Dave Z — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:10:19 +0000

Hey Steph,

Welcome!

That’s a pretty good question from Cannie.

I’ll add this:
If, as you say, the biblical writers (focusing on the Gospels) believed what they wrote, how do you explain their accounts of the resurrection? The disciples were convinced they saw Jesus killed, then later saw him alive again. And they made reference to many other witnesses. If they truly believed it, yet you see it as false, it seems you would need to hold a viable theory of how they believed they experienced something that, in actuality, did not happen.

By: Cannie

Cannie — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 17:03:30 +0000

Steph, I see. The Gospel, tho’ it addresses the problem of sin, does not offend you because you don’t take it seriously… due to your unbelief of sin and judgment. Do you believe in life after death?

Your interest in the N.T. as literature only is fascinating. I suppose it’s akin to those who devote their lives to the analysis of fantasy literature such as Tolkien.

If you had lived in the first century and were in the audience of Paul or Peter (or someone else who personally knew Jesus and saw His claims validated by the resurrection), would you be more likely to believe their testimony?

By: JohnT3

JohnT3 — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:42:20 +0000

OK, what I was asking was if not a Christian then are you an athiest, Muslim, Jewish etc etc. But I believe you answered that question anyway.

So you see the New Testament as litterature, so do you see it as fictional, poetical or historical litterature? Do you have the same view of the Old Testament?

Would you be willing to open a line of communication via email? For what i believe would be very stimulating email conversation.