Crying for No Reason at all

# on 14 Dec 2008
Personal (Michael Patton)

Comments (56)

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56 Responses to “Crying for No Reason at all”

1. Jason C on 14 Dec 2008 at 12:37 am #

   Sometimes I want to cry Michael. Sometimes I really wish I could. Scream, yell, kick things… but the icy voice in my head reminds me that it doesn’t achieve anything.

   Sometimes we just need to cry, even we men.

   Lord help us.

2. Bryan on 14 Dec 2008 at 1:43 am #

   Psalm 39 (New International Version)

   For the director of music. For Jeduthun. A psalm of David.
   1 I said, “I will watch my ways
   and keep my tongue from sin;
   I will put a muzzle on my mouth
   as long as the wicked are in my presence.”

   2 But when I was silent and still,
   not even saying anything good,
   my anguish increased.

   3 My heart grew hot within me,
   and as I meditated, the fire burned;
   then I spoke with my tongue:

   4 “Show me, O LORD, my life’s end
   and the number of my days;
   let me know how fleeting is my life.

   5 You have made my days a mere handbreadth;
   the span of my years is as nothing before you.
   Each man’s life is but a breath.
   Selah

   6 Man is a mere phantom as he goes to and fro:
   He bustles about, but only in vain;
   he heaps up wealth, not knowing who will get it.

   7 “But now, Lord, what do I look for?
   My hope is in you.

   8 Save me from all my transgressions;
   do not make me the scorn of fools.

   9 I was silent; I would not open my mouth,
   for you are the one who has done this.

   10 Remove your scourge from me;
   I am overcome by the blow of your hand.

   11 You rebuke and discipline men for their sin;
   you consume their wealth like a moth—
   each man is but a breath.
   Selah

   12 “Hear my prayer, O LORD,
   listen to my cry for help;
   be not deaf to my weeping.
   For I dwell with you as an alien,
   a stranger, as all my fathers were.

   13 Look away from me, that I may rejoice again
   before I depart and am no more.”

3. Robert Jimenez on 14 Dec 2008 at 1:52 am #

   Hey Mike,

   I cry all the time. At service, on the road, at home, when I am alone. I have a lot reason to cry, sometime for just pure joy that the Lord saved me and put on a path that not only will get me into heaven, but kept me out some pretty dark places my life was headed on. I can’t even hang a photo of my dead brother because all it does is remind me of the awful death that he went through. It’s been over 22 years, and I still can’t bring myself to have a photo on a frame in my home.

   My aunt just passed away today. She was 83 years old. I went and visited her at the hospital last Tuesday, she was asleep not breathing right, connected to all sorts of machines. She woke up for a moment, at looked stressed, disorientated, worried trying to talk to me but all I can say to her that it’s alright, don’t try and talk, while trying to hold my tears back. She was a Catholic, and I am not even sure what sort of relationship if any that she had with the Lord.

   Life for me as for you has been hard, I read your testimony and you weren’t on a great path either prior to the Lord calling you. I have a solid career in computer science, but that did not help me when I lost my job, and went unemployed for 3 years. I lost everything, my self respect, manhood, provider, my house, my identity, my confidence. Everything even my black dodge durango. But somehow I decided to let God do something in my life. I learned a valuable lesson in all of this. Trails, difficulties, or just the plain struggles of life. I learned that everything that happens to me are just opportunities to be transformed into the image of Christ. With that perspective my whole attitude changed. I am not saying it made it any easier, but it put it in an eternal perspective.

   I was the Head of Technology Operations for DreamWorks SKG (the makers of Shrek), for 3 years I held that position, then one day it was all gone, everything. I felt rejected, it was during this time in my life where I clearly felt the Lord speak to me. I began to think about how Christ was rejected, and what he must have felt like. I came to a deep realization of how much he loves me. Loosing my home, I thought about he Jesus said the Son of Man has no where to lay his head. Why? Why was he so rejected, not loved? Why have I treated him this way. Man I really took a deep inventory of my life, and I have never been the same since. My life has gone through a deep transformation, it was all brought forth through suffering. I wish there was another way.

   Every time you share and open up like this, you get me going. Sorry for the late night ramblings. As always you are in my prayers.

   Robert Jimenez

4. steve matlock on 14 Dec 2008 at 1:52 am #

   I’m not pretending to be smart or educated – but emotions are what make you human. The only way life can touch you is through what you feel. Feelings are something you can just turn off or on when needed; they just are, and they are there at inappropriate times. (OK to cry at a funeral, but not OK to cry just to pass the time.)

   If it goes on for weeks – maybe you could talk to someone about what you’re feeling in a 1:1 situation. For a few days during a time of great stress – completely understandable.

   Never throw away a tear.

5. Scripture Zealot on 14 Dec 2008 at 2:03 am #

   Sometimes it takes us men a little longer to figure out what’s going on. Or sometimes we can’t figure things out. We don’t know our hearts very well but as you know God does.

   I’m sorry to hear things are so difficult. It sounds very stressful. I’ll pray for you.

   Robert, so sorry to hear about your aunt.
   Jeff

6. GoldCityDance on 14 Dec 2008 at 5:59 am #

   “Abhor” is a stronger word than “hate”, I think.

   Michael, it may be worthwhile to talk to a psychologist or Christian counselor about this. Depression can run in families, and based on what you’ve shared with us about your sister and father, I have to admit I’m beginning to be concerned about your mental health.

   Do remember that many of us are praying for you and your family.

7. Ishmael on 14 Dec 2008 at 8:15 am #

   It’s lonely in the dark and all of us who are called God’s children wonder where Abba has gone. Paul the Apostle had more seeming right to demand God’s relief than I’ll ever hope to have but when he was tormented by “a very imp of Satan”, God replied “My grace is sufficient for you.” The problem didn’t go away but the strength to bear up under it was provided.
   I’ll never understand why bad things happen to good people but, like you, I know there is a reason that will become clear one day. In the meantime, we rely on that promise “My grace is sufficient for you”.
   You are daily in my prayers.
   Peace.

8. JoanieD on 14 Dec 2008 at 8:35 am #

   Michael, I am sorry to hear the personal and financial difficulties going on in your life. The financial problems alone are enough to cause the emotional volatility you are experiencing. I do hope you can find a job you like. At least the sense of stability it will give you may help, although we all know that in these economic times, stability is elusive. I wish I had better answers.

   Joanie D.

9. Chris S on 14 Dec 2008 at 9:38 am #

   Michael, coming from a man who cries frequently,your post
   touched me deeply. Considering all that you have on your plate right now I’m not at all surprised that you can’t stop crying. Maybe the problem is just that:you don’t cry often enough. It’s all pent up. Just a thought. Something tells me you don’t want us bloggers to solve your problem but just let you know that we identify and we love you. I think I can speak for all of us when I say your ministry is so very deeply appreciated. As one who is employed in the car business I can definetly identify (as can many these days)with your financial struggles. On a side note: I am a finance mgr for a car dealer and have worked with Ford Credit for years. They are always very willing to work with you in the event of financial hardship. I think they still operate this way?
   Michael, please NEVER stop being so open-so human with those of us in the blogosphere. So many spiritual leaders are afraid to show any weakness or humanness. I think your approach is refreshing to us all. I’m praying also that we can all somehow squeeze a few extra bucks to keep this ministry going.Michael , please just keep us informed of how you and your family are doing. We truly want to know.

   Chris S

10. Lisa Robinson on 14 Dec 2008 at 10:22 am #

    I think the terrible thing about being a leader is that it places reins in our hands that we believe we can rightly control. I think sometimes we can become so dependent on those reins that we can lose sight of how quickly in can turn to independence. It is crushing when the reins don’t seem to be working.

    Michael, I have a natural independence about me and I can only imagine that as head of the household and head of your ministry that you indeed have tremendous responsibilities and take those responsibilities seriously. Maybe these occurrences show us that our dependence has been misplaced. I don’t have answers but I have suffered. And it was during these times that I learned how much I was taking on instead of unloading and handing the reins over. Yes, it is crushing. It is nothing to be ashamed about and I concur with others that authenticity regarding our emotions is quite human and natural. It may be the start of releasing the grip, as Chuck Swindoll would say.

    I hope and pray that you have trusted advisers that you can unload on and that will be like an Aaron and Hur to you. I will pray for you, my brother.

11. Dr Mike on 14 Dec 2008 at 10:53 am #

    Michael:

    I hope you can read this as coming from one wounded brother to another.

    I’ve been reading your columns and watching your dvds for years now, and the present one only serves to confirm what I’ve believed for years: you are depressed and, like your father with his drinking, you are in denial about it.

    You may think that because you aren’t suffering as much as your sister did that you therefore are not depressed. From what I’ve pieced together from your numerous writings about her and you, it seems that she suffered from (perhaps among other things) a Major Depressive Disorder or perhaps Bipolar I. I don’t know for sure about the latter.

    You, however, seem to be suffering from a Dysthymic Disorder. This is a “walking around” kind of depression where people are able to function but only with difficulty: the crushed feeling makes everyday responsibilities feel overwhelming or especially burdensome. Days are gray and the future is dark. Self-recriminations over past “failures” are the seasonings of the day and your considerable intellect and rationalizations cannot pull you out of it.

    Depression is a mood disorder, not a thought disorder, and all the insight and knowledge in the world won’t help.

    And you do need help, something I’ve said to you before. Will you continue to subject your own family to it (as your father is with your family of origin) or will you find the courage to face it and deal with it?

    Help is out there. To stay in denial is a form of self-inflicted martyrdom and can be unloving towards those who love you.

    For your family’s sake, get some help.

12. Matt on 14 Dec 2008 at 11:31 am #

    You kick ass Michael. I’ve given money to your ministry before (and will again) but was a tad worried you were going a little TR on us lately. Writing like this confirms that you really are a completely normal human being. Still, you should probably take it off before some of our brothers come to kick-ya-when-ya-down.

    I also “abhor” alarm messages. Our local crisis pregnancy center got so bad about sending them out, it really made me want to not give to them anymore. I remember it was the same way with my father and other ministries. So keep ‘em to a minimum if you can. Peace!

13. Raquel on 14 Dec 2008 at 12:13 pm #

    Michael,

    You aren’t depressed. Don’t listen to these goofballs. You are mourning. It’s good it’s hard it’s necessary. Sometimes life, everything in life, is difficult. And to compare ourselves to Jesus feels ridiculous. So I won’t.

    But, in an uglier way I want to echo Lisa. Letting go of what we can and cannot control is often the most difficult of endeavors. Watching God strip us of any excuses/reasons is crazy hard while strangely reassuring.

    Have you watched this one lately?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTc_FoELt8s

14. Lisa Robinson on 14 Dec 2008 at 3:02 pm #

    Personally, I don’t think its our place to determine whether or not this is depression. It could be or it couldn’t be. Perhaps Dr. Mike being the trained and licensed professional that he is, spots something the untrained observer might dismiss as being human. Or maybe its too hard, even for him to tell from this single dimension communication apparatus. Nonetheless, if Dr. Mike is correct, why not err on the side of caution. I think its better to be safe than sorry.

15. C Michael Patton on 14 Dec 2008 at 3:23 pm #

    Thank you all for your comments. You are very kind.

    I don’t really know how to define depression. Is it is being sad for a short period of time? Is it crying? Is it conviction? Is it healthy? Is it unhealthy? A lot of assumptions behind such.

    Either way, it may be that life is just really hard sometimes. There is nothing wrong with being down.

    My issue here is that crying has been a part of my day for a while and it is odd because I never cry. I often have tried to cry, but nothing comes. Now it won’t stop.

    I actually think it is making me feel better.

16. Curt Chadwick on 14 Dec 2008 at 4:48 pm #

    If its ok for God to cry (John 11:35), its ok for you and I.

17. Reg on 14 Dec 2008 at 5:37 pm #

    Michael,
    When I was reading your post, memories came flooding back. A little over a year ago, I was diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder. I was employed as the Vice President and General Manager of a medium sized manufacturing company, and due to economic conditions, we had to lay off several hundred employees. The city I live in is not large, and every time I went shopping, or to buy gas, I would run into one of the folks I had laid off. After years of steadily climbing the corporate ladder, I suddenly realized that it had all become “ashes in my mouth”. One morning, I woke up crying and couldn’t stop. It went on for the better part of a week.
    During that time, the Lord led me to RMM – and between the videos, the study guides, TUP, etc. you and your folks filled a very important void in my life. You were there when I needed you and I thank God for that. You gave me something to focus on rather than on just my problems and my situation. As Dr. Mike said, Depression is a mood disorder, and about one out of five individuals in North America will suffer from it at some time in their lives.
    Michael, I would encourage you to see a doctor and get some help. From reading the responses to your post, I know that there are many of us out here who can relate to what your are going through, and are keeping you in prayer. As Curt said, if it is ok for God to cry, its ok for you and I.
    God bless.

18. Dave Armstrong on 14 Dec 2008 at 5:39 pm #

    Hi Michael,

    Very moving report. I would suspect that you are going through a “pre-mourning.” I did it myself with my brother, Gerry, who died of leukemia in 1998 (I had donated bone marrow to him three years before, which worked, but he had many other complications).

    It comes (if this is what it is) from helplessness: not being able to do anything about it, and knowing where it all inevitably leads. It’s also a sort of sadness and melancholy: remembering how things used to be. The Christmas season has a way of doing that, too. I think it is a perfectly natural and understandable human reaction. If you let it out (and we men — including myself — have such a hard time doing that!), you will feel better (as you have already indicated). God gave us tears to help us deal normally with sad emotions.

    In the case of my brother I was pretty much grieving beforehand. When the end came it was terrible, of course, but my leading thought was that he was now out of his misery, so for the most part I had a “relieved” feeling and was happy for him. I tried to concentrate more on him than on myself.

    But I find now, ten years later, that I probably didn’t grieve enough after the fact, because of that feeling (or, “determination,” is more accurate) of being happy for him being liberated from his sufferings. So I think I am actually starting to grieve again after having held it in for so long. Grieving is about ourselves and our loss. He was my only brother, and the main personal influence for my becoming a serious Christian and disciple (evangelical, as he was, and later Catholic). So this was a HUGE loss.

    Emotions are exceedingly complex. If this goes on very long, though (or if you find that it is cyclical), you should seek some medication and/or counseling: at least temporarily. If it is seriously affecting your day-to-day life, it is serious, no matter how badly things in your life may be going at present.

    I can also relate, believe me, about the struggles in full-time Christian ministry and the uncertainty of irregular income. I’ve gone through that stress both as a Protestant and as a Catholic (sometimes almost to the point of despair). I found that it helps to at least have a part-time regular income, to stabilize your finances. I delivered papers for a while and also worked as a transporter: driving cars from dealers to auctions. You might try to publish some articles with magazines, if you have any connections in those areas.

    I hate to beg and plead, as much as you do, and refuse to do it. I have found that God provides, though, every time, for those who are sacrificing to follow Him and depending on support for full-time ministry. I can testify to that from years and years of experience, and I happily do so. It happened to us just a few days ago, when we were worried about checks bouncing and overdraft fees. A donation came in right at the exact moment it was needed. You seem to have a very similar view of these things.

    You’ll be in my prayers, brother.

    I was going to respond to an article of yours about John 6. That’s what brought me here today. It seems almost inappropriate to do so, after reading this, but I guess I will, anyway. I’m sure you’ll still be writing about theology soon, despite any sadness or difficulties you’re going through, and I write as a brother in Christ from a different part of the Body (the “3rd cousin” Catholic part), not as any kind of “enemy” (as I think this present reply indicates).

    God bless,

    Dave

19. From The Balcony on 14 Dec 2008 at 9:36 pm #

    Michael…you know none of us have the answers, but one thing you have always made clear to us is that community matters. In a sense, we are a part of your community. You have blessed us with so many tools….so many precious things that have taught us through your gifts….that have fed us in the midst of a cultural theological crisis.

    Michael, you are valuable. You are valuable to me. You are valuable to God. You are valuable to your mother, your father and your sister. And you are valuable to thousands of people who call you their friend.

    Depressed? I imagine all of us get depressed from time to time. You have many reasons for your heart to hurt. You have a massive burden that requires everything from you — your heart and soul. As a man, you try to put it all on your shoulders. It also requires your faith. Faith to believe that God is just — that God loves you — and that God created you with gifts so overflowing that His children feel closer to Him because of them.

    I love and honor you, Michael. I’m not your mom, but I almost could be You are God’s beloved child. You are valuable. Your ministry is valuable. Please lean on us when you feel alone and overwhelmed.

    When the world seems overwhelming, scale down a bit. Don’t let your dreams grow so large that time doesn’t allow them to mature in a timely manner. Prioritize. Let God prioritize for you. In a way, this could be what He is doing in your life. Remember why you started this in the first place.

    You are valuable and I praise God for you.

20. Matt Turner on 14 Dec 2008 at 11:20 pm #

    I can certainly say that I’ve felt what Dave Armstrong says about a feeling of “helplessness.” It’s a combination of my current situation and the situation in the world. I’ve told my wife I wish I could do something but I feel trapped or held back or something. I wouldn’t go so far as to diagnose you since I am, by no means, an expert at disorders and what have you. I will say that I agree with everyone that you need to AT LEAST talk to someone about what’s going on. A trusted and listening friend or church leader (unlike Job’s so-called friends) would do wonders in helping you out and allowing God to work through what’s going on. I’ll pray for you and the rest of your family about your struggles. Take care!

21. Raquel on 14 Dec 2008 at 11:45 pm #

    (As I read others comments to my own, I see that I was playful at the wrong time and came off more like a jerk. I apologize and do hope that you’ll forgive me for not taking more time editing before I send off.)

22. Mary B. on 15 Dec 2008 at 12:13 am #

    I agree with those that say you’re grieving. I’m not a “good” griever myself – I didn’t cry about my grandfather’s death until several years afterward (though I was very sad) – yet I spent almost a week crying when my mother had a stint put in an artery (she was in virtually no danger). Grief and fear for those you love don’t always show up in the way you expect them to, and there’s no shame in letting yourself deal with them in your own way.

    As an aside: Let your wife help you if she can. What are partners there for, if not to help you when you need it? You may like to think of yourself as the protector and the provider, but no one can protect against every threat nor provide in every circumstance. As long as your wife knows you are doing your best, I’m sure that she won’t mind pitching in – nor do I think she’ll look down on you for needing help.

    As far as the jobs go: Could you look for some kind of work as a postal carrier or newspaper delivery driver? I believe those are jobs which don’t necessarily have to be full-time, and have the potential to offer good benefits. Plus, they would get you out into the outdoors and get you some exercise, which often truly helps if you have mood issues.

    Please consider going to see a counselor of some type. Even if you don’t consider yourself “depressed”, per se, a good counselor could help you learn to cope with some of the stress from the money issue. I do hope you start feeling better soon – your post is so full of pain.

23. Truth Unites... and Divides on 15 Dec 2008 at 12:35 am #

    “Jesus Wept.” (John 11:35)

    My favorite memory verse… because it’s so short!

    I prayed for you. Your financial dependence reminds me of a story about an English guy who ran an orphanage. (George Mueller?) He’d pray and God would deliver the needed funds at the last moment.

    “I am decent at a lot of things, but not qualified for anything in the secular world. I found nothing that I could do.”

    Actually, there’s a lot that you could do. Don’t underestimate yourself. God has given you much to offer others. Now whether you want to do it, well, that’s another ….

    Lighthearted suggestion: Ebay any and all DC figurines and comics and memorabilia. The only ones worth keeping and will increase in value are the Marvel memorabilia. Say goodbye to the Dark Knight, Superman, Justice League, et al. Sell them all while you can. This is an excellent way to reclaim your mind.
    

24. Leslie on 15 Dec 2008 at 1:08 am #

    Michael:

    My heart goes out for you. Since I respect you a great deal, please trust me, I hurt with you. Personally, I was almost gone recently, as I was affected with dengue fever, and we had to spend so much. We had to borrow from relatives. We had recently moved, and near our house was some sewage, and because of mosquito bites, I was infected with this fatal disease. And then my wife met with a minor accident, and we had to spend for the repair. We are also going financially really tough times. And I can empathize with you, though I only work for a ministry. I know how exactly you feel.

    I don’t know what else to say. But may I add that I love and respect you, Michael. You are a great guy!

25. CharlesW on 15 Dec 2008 at 2:36 am #

    Michael, I always have a nagging fear of sounding like Job’s “friends” (if you can call them that) and it makes me struggle with the words I want to say to you. So I will keep it to this. I have admired your work for quite some time now. Your passion was instrumental in my own recent decision to enter full time ministry. Each day as I read your posts and watch your activities online and elsewhere I can clearly see your love of Christ and your desire to give glory to Him through your life. Someday He will lead us to understand the suffering and the pain. For now, I will pray for your encouragement and your strength. I urge you to stay the course and listen to the still small voice. You have my contact information and if there is anything I can do for you, please call me.
    He will never leave us alone.
    God bless you Michael.
    Charles

26. Tyler on 15 Dec 2008 at 2:57 am #

    Yes, Michael; there have also been times for me when I have cried for seemingly no reason. Although usually I end up attributing it to a combination of different specific stress factors in my life. But, like you, my crying sessions are few and far between–perhaps too few and too far. Anyway, I don’t know what else to say to encourage you except that I also will be praying for you and for your family. God bless and keep you, make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you, lift up his countenance on you and give you peace.

    -Tyler <

27. Phil James on 15 Dec 2008 at 8:47 am #

    Thank you for sharing this. I admire you greatly, Michael; and its done me a world of good to see that I’m not alone in my familiar worry, fear and sadness; or that I’m not loony in thinking I see it in myself, coexisting with hope, trust and happiness.

    I wish I knew a more concrete way for us to help each other carry this stuff… and the stuff that creates this stuff, but know that I’m praying for you.

28. Jeremy on 15 Dec 2008 at 10:20 am #

    Michael, my prayers are with you right now. The whole reason I stumbled accross this blog and have been a frequent viewer of it as well as a student in TTP was that I was going through a major life struggle and searching for answers about God and my faith. My father passed away last year and a few months after that I lost my six figure job and then my mother had a stroke…I felt like I had been hit by a mack truck…this all came from out of no where and really left me struggling on many different levels. I don’t really have a home church and even though your over 1,000 miles aways your ministry has really helped me through this past year. I think the fact that your so candid about your life struggels is what made me open to what you had to say about God and your faith in his word….so all this to say Michael, it’s ok to cry…even if your not sure why. God hears your cry and those who love you are holding you up in prayer through this difficult time. Life can flat out suck some times but just know there are still great things around the corner (I’m preaching to myself right now as well).

29. Nick on 15 Dec 2008 at 10:48 am #

    As one who is a Seminary student and at the same time diagnozed autism/aspergers, I know all too well the conflict with emotions. I’m going to say something that might be surprising, but I wouldn’t make too much out of this. There are a number of factors that can play with anxiety and move one down such as sleeplessness (Being up at 3 A.M. might indicate your sleep schedule needs to change.), diet, changes in the world around you, (I’ve been at a new job lately which I think is giving me some anxiety) a remark or action from someone you know, weather, our current holiday season can play a part, etc.

    One of the great dangers I have and I need to avoid and it applies to you also I think, is to see these states as always abnormal and they are enemies that must be defeated. I think some sorrow is good. Some anxiety is good. Some doubt is good. The problem is not when you have these things, but when these things have you.

    I’d recommend a good counselor. I had one in my old homestate and while I live somewhere else now, I still call him from time to time and sometimes, what I saw as the most dreadful situation in the world is gone after a few minutes of talking to him. He doesn’t give me this great insight many times that blows away all the problem and answers my questions. He’ll just say something that is practically magical at the time and knowing that he knows helps alleviate my stress.

    If you need it, my email is here and I am available to chat.

30. Sarah Mae on 15 Dec 2008 at 11:28 am #

    Please don’t delete this post – it is so authentic and your transparency is comforting…honest…needed.

    You’ll probably want to delete this because tomorrow you will wake up and feel fine and therefore feel silly that you ever wrote about the deep soul pain that creeps in from time to time.

    You’re not silly, or stupid.

    Thank you for this post.

31. britphil on 15 Dec 2008 at 12:14 pm #

    Hi Michael

    Like yourself I do not cry easily, although there are times when for no apparent reasin I feel like bursting into tears and almost letting out a primal scream. It passes but it is not a pleasureable experience.

    Can I just say thank you for having the ciourage and the searing honesty to post such a thread. I amsure it was one of those instances when, once you had pressed the send buton, a few seconds later you thought “ohhh nooo..what have I just done?”

    My own take on the situation you find yourself, for what it’s worth, which probably isn’t much is that you’ve been through an awful lot recently, dealing with conditions of family members which has I am am sure at times almost completely drained you of neraly all your spiritual energy.

    I am constantly amazsed that given what you went through with your sister, and what yoy are going through with your Mum, not least also trying to support your Dad that you still fidn thime to be a full time husband and Dad, church leader, theology teacher while also maintaining a website of the highest quality.

    The question I ask, and it is not meant to be an intrusive one, is that I worry that you may not find sufficient time for “you”. For you to properly absorb, reflxext upon, make sesne of allt ha is happening in your life, especially to your Mum at this present time. Your heartbraking desire and longing for God to heal your Mum and not seeing that realised also takes its toll a bit more I think than mybe you
    realise.

    You are undoubtedly a very stong human being but there times when it can get just a bit too much for all of us. As someone who has been there when iot comes to being unable to go home and face the family, it may just be a onwe-off but if it continues please do try and talk to someonme as it may be a mild form of depression…9I know I know us Christian, and especially are not meant to admit/give in to it, but denying it is there or fighting it does not work.

    I hope and earnesty pray that over the next few days and weeks you may find yourself pul;ling through the darkest stages and the heaviness beginning to lift.

    One final thing, as someone who does come from maybe a more charismatic background, I think there is one area where those of us from such a persuauion need to tread very carefully…and that is in the area of conditions such as strokes, disability and certain forms of mental illness (not that I ammeaning to link these three together….they are all separate). My own experience is that. although I belive God can heal these areas a re notoriously difficult and I am very wary of any cavalier, carte blanche approach from those of a more charismatic persuasion.

32. britphil on 15 Dec 2008 at 12:20 pm #

    Sorry folks…I tried to edit the original posting and it didn’t take, so here is the revised and amended version.

    Hi Michael

    Like yourself I do not cry easily, although there are times when for no apparent reason I occasonally feel like bursting into tears and at times, almost letting out a primal scream. It passes but it is not a pleasureable experience.

    Can I just say thank you for having the courage and the searing honesty to post such a thread. I am sure it was one of those instances when, once you had pressed the send button, a few seconds later you thought “ohhh nooo..what have I just done?”

    My own take on the situation you find yourself, for what it’s worth, which probably isn’t much, is that you’ve been through an awful lot recently, dealing with conditions of family members which have, I am sure, at times almost completely drained you of nearly all your spiritual and emotional energy, and affected you probably more than you maybe realise. Also when we are busy we can sometimes hide behind times of activity, but there are times when we are quieter and less busy that we find ourselves dwelling on issues and being sometimes adversely affected by them.

    I am constantly amazed that given what you went through with your sister, and what you are going through with your Mum, not least also trying to support your Dad too, that you still find thme to be a full time husband and Dad, church leader, theology professor/lecturer while also maintaining a website of the highest quality.

    The question I ask, and it is not meant to be an intrusive one, is that I worry that you may not find sufficient time for “you”to be “you”.. For you to properly absorb, reflect upon, try to make some sort of sense of all that is happening in your life, especially with your Mum at this present time. Your heartbreaking desire and longing for God to heal your Mum and not seeing that realised also takes its toll a bit more I think than maybe you may realise.

    You are undoubtedly an exceptional and very stong human being, but there times when it can get just a bit too much for all of us. As someone who has been there when it comes to being unable to go home and face the family, it may just be a one-off, but if it continues please do try and talk to someone as it may,
    jusy may, I emphasise, be a mild form of depression…(I know I know us Christians, and especially us men are not meant to admit/give in to it, but denying it is there or fighting it does not work.)

    I hope and earnesty pray that over the next few days and weeks you may find yourself pulling through the darkest stages and the heaviness beginning to lift.

    One final thing, as someone who does come from maybe a more charismatic background, I think there is one area where those of us from such a persuauion need to tread very, very carefully…and that is in the area of conditions such as strokes, disability. dementia and certain forms of mental illness (not that I am meanig to link these four aspects together….they are all separate). My own experience is that. although I believe God can heal, these areas of life are notoriously difficult and that there are degrees of healing over time. I am very wary of any cavalier, carte blanche approach from those of a more charismatic persuasion in regard to this respect.

    Take very good care

    Phil

33. britphil on 15 Dec 2008 at 12:52 pm #

    Michael

    “I agree with those that say you’re grieving. I’m not a “good” griever myself – I didn’t cry about my grandfather’s death until several years afterward (though I was very sad) – yet I spent almost a week crying when my mother had a stint put in an artery (she was in virtually no danger). Grief and fear for those you love don’t always show up in the way you expect them to, and there’s no shame in letting yourself deal with them in your own way.”

    Michael…just reading back through some of the very poignant threads in response to your original comment, something that Mary said resonated with me a bit. I am not saying in any way that this is the reason or the answer, but it may help explain something of why you may find yourself crying so much.

    Our Senior Vicar, although we have some intersting conversations on areas in which we differ is a really great guy. His Mum died several years ago. She suffered for many years from Alzheimer’s and had been in a residuential home for a number of years. I remember him reflecting on how suerprised he was at how litle he cried at her death, and how calmly he had handled the emotions up to, during and after her funeral.

    One thingh he said really sturck me..and that was that he and the other members of his family (he is the youngest of 8 children) had said goodbye to their Mum about 10 years previously.

    We are often conditioned to think that grief only affects us once a person is dead, or when we are going through divorce or separation. I sense that you may be grieving the loss of the Mum you once knew and dearly (and understandably) would love to have back again.

    What Ricky discovered was that the desire to have his Mum back was something he had to slowly but surely let go of, and move into a situation of accepting the situation for what it is and learning to live with it. I think this aspect of grieving is very rarely recognised in that we can find oursleves grieving for the person whio is no longer there, but who is still very much physically alive, before our eyes, with their obvious and ongoing deterioration almost torturing us.

    I hope that did not sound overly insensitive. Grief and family issues are so personal that it is impossible to offer true comfort at times, but, and this may sound really ironic coming from the charisamtic side of the fence is that maybe, just maybe God may just gently be asking you not to seek total healing, but a willingness to “let go” of the person your Mum was and ask for his wisdom and discernment in moving forward as she is now and will be in the future.

    Re-reading that back it sounds a bit heartless…I hope it didn’t come across that way. I think the charismatic emphasis on healing can be too great sometmes whereas what we require sometimes is deep spirtiual discernment and words of knowledge from the Spirit of God which can speak deeply and directly to our soull and which may not result in miraculous healing or what we ourselves long for, but which may be part of God’s answer for us to find a way forward amidst all the hurt and confusion.

    I hope I ahve not offended you in any way or made the hurt and pain deeper than it already is. If I have please accept my heartfelt apologies.

    Very best regards

    Phil

34. britphil on 15 Dec 2008 at 1:04 pm #

    One more thing Michael and then I really will shut up and go away.

    You say, very courageously and honestly in your original thread that you have been crying non-stop and even avoiding people so that you don’t burst into tears.

    Maybe subconsciously is part of the process whereby you are facing up to the fact that maybe (and I mean maybe because I could be wrong and very mistaken …indeed I fervently hope I am) that God may not be going to answer your prayers in the way that you wish and the tears are part of the acceptance process and they feel so raw and incessant because God is at work in the deepest core of your being. It really hurst when he is dealing with our soul and our will and not just our head and our heart.

    I will no stop being such a pesky nuisance and you won’t hear from me again for a while.

    Yours in Him

    Phil

35. C Michael Patton on 15 Dec 2008 at 1:15 pm #

    So many kind comments. Thank you all (and Phil, don’t stop writing).

    After I wrote this, I have not cried. Is there such a thing as a 24 hour cry bug? Anyway, circumstances have not changed, but I feel as if I am back to “normal.”

    I am glad to have this avenue to share with so many compassionate people. It is such an encouraging thing to see the body of Christ in such a compassionate mode.

    As always, I will keep you all up to date on my life, for good or ill.

36. Nick on 15 Dec 2008 at 1:26 pm #

    Sometimes an outlet is all that is needed, such as I had said earlier about having a counselor. Isn’t it a shame that there are so many passages in Scripture about how we are to help “one another”, but we never seem to open up to one another so that we can be helped? Did we ever consider that maybe Scripture is right on the aspect of Christians needing the community of Christians?

    And definitely, take some time for you as well. On Sundays, I always go to Ben and Jerry’s for ice cream and go bowling in the evening with friends. The day is spent away from TheologyWeb where I usually hang out and instead, listening to MP3s on apologetics while playing some video games or maybe just reading books.

    Many other nights of the week, I try to sign off early enough to watch an episode of my favorite show, “Smallville” on DVD before going to bed. We all need to unwind. Take your work seriously, but take your play just as seriously.

37. Cannie on 15 Dec 2008 at 1:47 pm #

    You ask why you were crying, but your whole post explained all the reasons why. Everything builds up and finally lets go like a tidal wave. The situation with your mom and dad alone is enough for the tears to flow. I know, because I watched my Daddy die two years ago and am now watching my Mom suffer in her old age and disability… it’s AWFUL and gut-wrenching, and you feel so bad for them, yet there’s nothing you can do to alleviate their pain and hardship. And you know the people who are taking care of her don’t care as much as you (and I) do. Man, it’s so hard. And then the financial stuff on top of that! I’m so in debt, and every February’s income tax “refund” goes to pay down the overdraft protection loan at my bank. And yet new obligations requiring even more funds continue to pop up.

    This is NOT what God intended for us in the beginning… but as I look at the world to come, I rejoice to know that “every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low; and the uneven shall be made level, and the rough places a plain:” Everything will be made right. Keep your eyes on the blessed hope we have in our glorious KING! In the meantime, He mercies are new every morning, and we WILL get through this. God bless you, friend.

38. Susan on 15 Dec 2008 at 2:55 pm #

    I heard Ravi Zacharias say recently, “Jesus didn’t stifle His emotions.” I thought about that for awhile. I’d just been to my uncle’s memorial service the day before…. and I hate it when I can’t stop crying in public. Jesus was of course, purely authentic….. so, If you have to cry, cry. And, it would be great if you could do a bit of freelance writing, and get paid for it…. not that you have the extra time…. but, you are a brilliant writer!
    I’m praying for you.

    Leslie, so sorry to hear of your recent crisis! I’m glad you made it, and are still around. Praise God.

    Susan

39. Chris on 15 Dec 2008 at 3:37 pm #

    Hey Michael. I was at DTS at the same time you were. Just want you to know I appreciate your candidness. I will say a prayer for you, just as I pray for myself and a ton of other folks. We all need prayer. Can’t say I have a definite prognosis or diagnosis for you, but prayer must help.

    Thanks especially for sharing about your unanswered prayers (for your father). I’ve had some spiritual disappointments recently too. I love the passage when the disciples say, “Lord, where can we go? You have the words of life.” Sometimes we come to that place. The Christian life is terribly hard and discouraging, but we can’t relinquish Christ.

    Take care.

40. Charles on 15 Dec 2008 at 4:26 pm #

    I experienced this one time, but it only lasted for 4 hours – not for days. I was not technically depressed (I don’t think…), but my tears were like a weeping that was beyond my emotions or thoughts. I did not try to stop it, simply rested in it and prayed through it. Penthos is the word that comes to mind. A very deep heart sorrow for the state of humanity – my own and that of the world.

    From his book on Prayer, Richard Foster says that “tears are God’s way of helping us descend with the mind into the heart and there bow in perpetual adoration and worship.” Clearly you have a lot of things lending more to an emotional cry, but perhaps it is more than that.

41. CharlesW on 15 Dec 2008 at 4:38 pm #

    There is some excellent encouragement embedded in this week’s, “Monday with Mounce.”

    http://zondervan.typepad.com/koinonia/2008/12/was-timothy-timid-or-fearful-monday-with-mounce.html

    Blessings

42. Rick C. on 15 Dec 2008 at 5:28 pm #

    God bless you, Michael. I went through something ‘not dissimilar’ this very weekend myself. I won’t post details. But in reading you, I recalled a sermon that addresses these kinds of things: “The Dangers of Arrogance and Defeat.” I leave with an excerpt, continued prayer, and gratitude for knowing you and Our Great God….

    “God is everything. Not winning or losing but: God. My victory cannot enrich God and my defeat cannot impoverish God. If I make good; I bring God nothing. And if I peter out; I rob God of nothing. God is our Refuge. And we’re not going to let victory spoil us, nor defeat, defeat us: We’re going to take them in stride. Win or lose: We’re on God’s side. And if we keep away from sin, and keep above it all, and keep happy in God; we’re winning! whether we know it or not. So we can be just as happy when we’re not happy as when we are happy because: that is the prerogative of faith.”
    — A.W. Tozer

43. Joshua on 15 Dec 2008 at 6:11 pm #

    Hey Michael,

    I have / have had similar feelings to what you are describing. It was sorta like “whats the point, it feels like nothing is being accomplished and I am empty and have nothing left to give. Was all this foolishness to begin with?”

    What has helped me the most is letting my heart loose with fellow believers I trust. Obviously you are doing this online, but I have found special healing through eye contact and interaction with other people. I think Larry Crabb illustrates this beautifully in his book “Connecting”:

    “When two people connect, when their beings intersect as closely as two bodies during intercourse, something is poured out of one and into the other that has power to heal the soul of its deepest wounds and restore it to health. The one who receives experiences the joy of being healed. The one who gives knows the even great joy of being used to heal. Something good is in the heart of each of God’s children that is more powerful than everything bad. It’s there, waiting to be released, to work its magic.”

    In addition I know John Piper has had similar painful and difficult experiences for a while. You may find his discussion about his “depression” (I guess thats what you would call it) helpful:

    http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/ConferenceMessages/ByConference/37/

    [Its the Q & A with John Piper & John McArthur]

    I hope this encourages you and helps you. God bless you and the wonderful ministry you provide for the Kingdom of Christ.

    Your brother in Christ,

    -Josh

44. Grant on 15 Dec 2008 at 8:26 pm #

    Hi Michael,

    I realise this may not mean much to you at the moment, but I understand where you’re
    coming from. I have no money to give you at this time, and I wish I could.
    My wife and I are going down to a single income, and times in business are not
    what they used to be. This is the very real side of the economic slow down.

    I don’t have any answers for you other than that I grieve with you. So many of my
    brothers and sisters are in the same boat. The only advice I can offer you is the
    following:

    1. Make sure your wife knows whats happening, or your situation will only get worse.

    2. Make sure your local church, or a local church knows about your situation. No matter
    how embarrassed you feel, you can’t do it alone. The community of God needs to work
    with you here as a community.

    3. Get some proffessional counselling. There are plenty of people trained to help you
    better than the blogging world.

    I hope this helps.

45. C Michael Patton on 16 Dec 2008 at 1:21 am #

    Someone suggested this video as Piper talks about “crying for no reason.” http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/MediaPlayer/2410/Video/

    It is the last 1/3. I am very thankful for this testimony.

    It is funny because I relate to MacArthurs comments more as he says “I don’t have time to be depressed.” That is how I am for the most part. I usually can’t relate to other people’s depression. I am never hardly depressed. That is why this cying seems to be so odd.

46. Cadis on 16 Dec 2008 at 9:42 am #

    I watched the last third of the video. It was as humorous as it is true.
    It certainly showed two different men dealing with sadness in two different ways.

    But I think Piper spoke, conveyed, helped in his testimony and experience more than Macarthur, well maybe not, the way Macarthur just shrugged when confronted with these questions made me laugh. They were an excellent team on this topic.

    I identified with both of them.

    The testimony they both agreed on was that it was God working and controlling their lives and the ministries for his own purposes.
    It really does boil down to …ALL things work together for good, to those who love God to those who are called according to his purpose.

    There is alot of labor in the process of getting the job done

47. Wayne in Frisco on 17 Dec 2008 at 1:52 am #

    Michael,

    I probably have a lot less insight to offer than most of your other respondents, but I feel so sympathetic to your expressions that I can’t help but share.

    I am about your age and the sole provider for my family. A few years ago, I left a high-paying job to start a new venture. My business is growing but not yet replacing the income I once had. I make a good living but I am constantly worried about next month. I am alone in my business. I don’t have a partner and no key employees with whom I can share my burdens. I can’t lean on my wife as she is already stressed enough about next month’s bills and to tell her that I am worried would crush her. So, I tell her everything will be alright and God will provide.

    God has been very gracious and, despite some close calls, He has met all of our needs. I am in debt and am constantly having surprise expenses – like the birth of my daughter this year sans insurance – $14K surprise.

    My point in all of this is that I think you are feeling the overwhlming burden of being alone. I know that you know God and recognize the relationship and His sovereignty. But, I get the feeling that you don’t have anyone to lean on with the many burdens you are struggling through.

    A year ago, I got a book about depression after getting feedback from friends and family. In the book, there were 5 questions and if you answered yes to 2 or 3 of them, then you were (textbook) suffering depression. I got 4.5 out of 5. I saw a counselor and he recommended medication. Medication was too expensive so I sought alternatives. Long story short, I came to realize that I was struggling with trying to handle everything by myself. While I’ve not been able to find a close companion to lean on, I have found it useful to seek support from others, pray about it, and ask God to use it to meet my needs. It helps. My problems are as big as ever, but I feel more in control of my emotions and more willing to reach out when they are getting the best of me.

    I think Dr. Mike had some of the best insight and I would recommend you find someone (licensed Christian counselor) to talk things through. Prayer – yours and intercessory from your supporters – are vitally important for you and all your struggles.

    You are an independent, lone-ranger blazing new trails in evangelicalism and you need a sidekick. You need a close friend that can be sympathetic to your situation or, perhaps a mentor that can help you see the light at the end of the tunnels you are traversing.

    You are in my prayers, Kemo Sabe!

48. Cary Voss on 17 Dec 2008 at 10:58 am #

    Michael,

    I can certainly relate to what you are experiencing. I have in the past two years had days where I would just cry for extended periods of time for no clear reason. This is highly unusual given I an not an emotional person. But someone suggested to me that I go to the Psalms and read until one just jumped out from the Lord that seemed to answer the cry of my heart. It has really helped. The other suggestion that I received was to offer a sacrifice of praise to God during those times that I could not do otherwise. David cried quite a bit, if you read the Psalms, so it is nothing to be ashamed of. I certainly believe in my case that God was trying to get my attention / to use me in ways for intercession that I might not have been as responsive in “normal situations.”

    Please DO NOT delete this post. Many, many people can relate to your experience, and your confession (given your credibility) really helps others. Plus, as Paul continually says we are a body and we are called to “bear each other’s burdens.” It has helped me to respond to your post.

    But I would also take the advice of others and go see a doctor. I was diagnosed with Clinical Depression in the middle of my Ph.D. program at the University of Kansas. I have been on medication off and on ever sense. When I take my medicine – Effexor – and it takes effect, then I am “normal” with normal ups and downs. When I do not take it, then the lows are abnormally low and life becomes grey and drab. Effexor, and other medicines like it, are serotonin reuptake inhibitors, which correct a chemical imbalance in the brain. They are NOT a drug in the sense of a stimulant or depressant, and take a while to start working. Check out this explanation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_ serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor)

    I am including this because I believe I suffered needlessly for years, and there may be many others out there that are needlessly suffering as well. In the meantime, I will certainly be praying for you and your family:) God is Good all the time, and he works ALL things together for Good to those who are called. We may not understand why things happen now, but it will all make sense in eternity!!!!

    Cary

49. Truth Unites... and Divides on 17 Dec 2008 at 12:26 pm #

    I found this book by Dr. Ed Bulkey very helpful.

50. Phyllz on 17 Dec 2008 at 2:01 pm #

    I have read all of the comments and I don’t think I saw any mention of spiritual warfare. I am, albeit reluctantly, reading a book about the invisible war (The Invisible War, Chip Ingram) we all are involved in whether we want to think about it or admit it. I don’t think every little bad thing that happens is about the enemy but I do think he is real and he wants nothing more than to see us discouraged and questioning.

    It seems to me that Satan attack’s us all, christian or not. I also learned that there are prime times when he attacks.
    When we are growing spiritually.
    We we envade enemy territory.
    When we expose Satan for who he really is.
    When we repent and attempt to turn from sin.
    When God is preparing us for a great work for His glory.

    Seems to me you are doing at least a few of the above things right now. I suspect you have a target on your back. If we recognize it for what it is then we can deal with it; Ephesians 6:10-12.

    Oh and didn’t Paul make tents at one time to help make ends meet?

    You are in my prayers…

    Peace

51. minnow on 19 Dec 2008 at 5:27 am #

    This comment is late–battling my own dragons–but I do want to add my prayers and encouragement. Thank you for the strength of this post. Sometimes it takes a great deal of time to prepare the ground before it is ready for planting. Good soil=wisdom and understanding.

52. Joey L. Taylor on 21 Dec 2008 at 11:54 am #

    thx so much for sharing your heart. i know that a post like this is way, way hard to publish. the only way that i’m in touch with your ministry is through this blog and the more that i follow it the more i like it. i don’t wanna give you some trite closing statement but i guess that i really do hope that you keep being in god’s presence and that god teaches you mightily through your tears.

    <

53. Davy D HObson on 28 Dec 2008 at 1:10 pm #

    Very impressed with the overwhelming responses to comfort a brother in Christ. For the few that played the Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar roles, be careful. Maybe you should consider asking Michael to pray for you.

54. cheryl on 19 Jan 2009 at 8:11 am #

    Michael,be thankful for the tears,even without knowing the exact cause..They are being gathered and saved..I wish I could cry,but for the moment,I am tearless.I find myself longing to feel the hot splash of tears on my face.I am familiar with tears,of all kinds,but not this dryness.Many of us are in a like place,of trials.
    As a private care giver for twenty years,I have cared for a lady such as your mother.Give her all the love you can.Her spirit is not effected by her illness.Pray with her.As a minister,I have watched as people came out of coma’s,with prayer.Some to be healed,some long enough to set their house in order,and then go on.
    In all, I have beheld the faithfullness,grace,and merciful concern of the Lord,with every one of them.I really can’t tell you which of the ministries,the Lord has allowed me to function in,care-giver,Pastor,have touched the most hearts and lives.
    I pray for your family,nothing and no one be lost,but held and kept in His merciful hands,in Jesus name.
    Cheryl

55. Sally Kranof on 01 Jan 2010 at 8:50 pm #

    I don’t know how I found this; it’s probably not even on your website anymore.
    I just wonder what help orrelief, if any, you received. Seems like everyone uses their own life experience to decide yours; which is fine, they are trying to help, which is always good.
    I found this on a very dark day. Your honesty was a relief.
    If you’re interested, check this very short clip.
    http://www.ehow.com/video_4458683_adjustment-disorder-depression-advice.html
    Warmest regards, and thank you again for your honesty.
    Sally

56. Joe on 04 Jan 2010 at 6:01 pm #

    Michael:
    Yes, I cry sometimes for no reason at all. It can be very strange, but there have been times, early in the morning, when I have sat on the couch and just sobbed. Or something miniscule sets me off (I mean miniscule, like a silly cartoon on TV). It is a release of sorts, but troubling. Up to this point in my life (I’m 43) I’ve mostly understood my feelings, but now, with multiple stressors, it is as though I don’t know what I feel anymore until it erupts.

    The flip of the spontaneous crying for no reason is the feeling as though I could cry but I cannot.

    I just never thought that it would come to this point in my life. Bizarre, but true. I’m married to a psychotherapist and have two wonderful little kids, but feel like I have no one that I can talk to… Perhaps that’s the value of friendship and prayer…

    In any case, I know this is an old post, but maybe this will get back to you and you can know that someone else also experiences the same problem.

    -Joe

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