Why are there so many nominal Christians?

# on 28 Oct 2008
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1. britphil on 28 Oct 2008 at 5:46 am #

   A thoughtful piece as ever Michael but may I add one caveat.

   Your piece is largely critical of the “nominal uncommitted” as if their lack of belief and committment is solely their fault or responsibility.
   I am not so sure.

   You asked about our friends. I was talking with a friend over the weekend who I would class as nominal/borderline believer. In his workplace he works alongside and observes at close quarters two extremely vocal and judgemental evangelical Christians who have made him naturally sceptical of “committed evangelical Christiabnity” as there is no way that he would want to be remotely like either of these two people and fears that if he does make a committment this is what he will have to end up like either or both of these people, which would actually turn out to be his worst nightmare!

   Could it not be argued that the reason why there are so many non-commiteed nominal believers is as much a factor of the lack of authenticity that can be found at times within even the more the passionate of the evangelical fraternity?

   Authenticity and integrity is just as important as passion and committment. More of the former exhibited by the already committed might just result of more of the latter from the nominal or non-committed.

2. britphil on 28 Oct 2008 at 5:54 am #

   “Nominal Christianity is defined by those who proclaim the name Christian, yet remain uncommitted in any real sense.”

   Just to add to my previous comment, should we not be just as concerned about those who prcaim to be committed and followers of Christ yet live and act as if they are not.

   We have a term and a label for everything and everyone else, what is the term that we should be applying to this phenemenon within Christianity.

3. Del on 28 Oct 2008 at 7:20 am #

   britphil,

   I think the accepted term for someone you’re describing is “hypocrite”.

   I’ve found myself in a similar position in the past, working with annoying, loud-mouthed Christians who had a three point sermon at the ready, critical of everyone, didn’t walk the walk and whose co-workers talked about their hypocrisy behind their backs. Even non-christians have some idea how a Christian should be. In those cases I was careful to act as a Christian yet not call my self such as this would associate me with their hypocrisy. I also cautiously pointed out to their critics that I really didn’t think they were representing what Christians should stand for. Hmm, maybe that made me nominal in those cases? I agree with you that passion visible to others doesn’t necessarily equal authenticity.

4. Andrew on 28 Oct 2008 at 8:13 am #

   For myself I can say that until I came to a proper understanding of Genesis I didn’t really have much of a Christian outlook on life.

   Lets face it if we don’t acknowledge that God created us for a purpose, wants what is best for us and wants us to know Him then how can we understand the teachings of Jesus. Until we see Jesus through the Old Testament text then how can we come to a proper meaning of Him in the New Testament. I have heard a lot of Christians say that Genesis is not important, but if this is so then why are atheists attacking it, clearly they understand its importance. Until we recognize that the gospel message starts in Genesis 3:15 and learn to study the Bible as a whole then how can we have any type of Christian world view.

   George Barna surveyed church going teenagers and found 70% will leave the church after they leave home. If this statement doesn’t alarm the church (which I know it hasn’t) then we are truly a dying breed. The question is why are they leaving. The obvious answer is the church doesn’t take teaching our children seriously. Young children have questions like how did we get here? who created us? etc. If we don’t give good Bible based answers to these questions then the public schools will provide the answers leaving God out of the equation of course.

5. Scott Ferguson on 28 Oct 2008 at 8:41 am #

   I have to say first off that I visited Ben Witherington’s blog and you have it all over him in terms of perception and inquiry. He may be quite the scholar but that does not seem to have granted him the ability to peer outside his own cardboard box.

   Back on topic:

   I would say about 80% of those who would mark Christian on a survey are Nominal or, as Barna labels them, Notional Christians – they like the idea but lack the understanding or desire go any further. They will occasionally talk about God and fling credit His way but remain completely immersed and oblivious in there everyday lives.

   Reasons? I think cultural ones must be pushed to the front. In some ways being Christian is easy in America. Our grandparents went to church. Our government nods in the churches direction, if only symbolically at times. American=Christian. As long as you don’t dig too deeply, it is perfectly natural. Now, if you want to actually commit yourself to God’s will… That is much more than most people want to get into. It goes against the American anti-extremist tendency. Besides, Americans by and large don’t like to think too hard – about the outside world, about science or about the consequences of their beliefs.

   I never know what to make of these people. Do they represent Christianity? More interestingly, do the views of the average pew-sitter exemplify Christian belief or do we turn to the theologians for that. The urge to consult the experts must be balanced against the observation that, as practiced in the streets, the beliefs of the former hold sway.

   Of course, we atheists have the same issues. Sometimes the more pertinent distinction is not between the positions themselves but between those who know why they believe what they do and those who don’t.

   Keep up the good work, Michael and keep the faith.

6. whoschad on 28 Oct 2008 at 9:22 am #

   I tend to agree with what’s been said above. If you say that you AREN’T Christian, it doesn’t have very good overtones in this country today (though the atheists are working to change this). I think a lot of people just don’t have the courage or desire to really consider what it means to be a Christian. I think a lot of them are hedging their bets, hoping to get into Heaven just in case.

   It’s a win-win scenario. You don’t have to change the way you live AND you get heaven thrown in.

7. ScottL on 28 Oct 2008 at 11:20 am #

   One of the great cuss-words for Christians today is ‘commitment’. It’s almost as bad as the f-word.

   No doubt there are many a reasons for the non-committal attitude that can pervade the western church, as these are touched on above in other comments. I think one reason that we must consider is that people do not have a full understanding of what Christ actually came to do and did in our lives. If we simply got a taste, a glimpse, in knowing that a death and resurrection took place in our lives, it might change our perspective. If we actually got a true picture of what happened in Christ, something might just spark. If we actually realized that the third person of the Godhead took up residence in us, we might respond a little differently. This does not alleviate trials and great difficulties, for that is part of the call and journey. And, no doubt, it is these that the great Liar can use to weigh us down. But, there is something about grasping what truly has happened in our redemption that can empower us and enliven us in Him. We know we will pass through the waters and walk through the fire, yet we will not be overcome with the waters or burned by the fire (Isaiah 43:2).

   I would throw out the title of one book that might bring encouragement – Megashift by James Rutz. It looks at what God is doing around the world in many people groups, even the west. And, no doubt, if we keep reading the stories of the committed, we will only be spurred on to walk in the path of the ‘cloud of witnesses’. Amazing that some 75,000+ are coming to Christ every day on planet earth!

8. LAL on 28 Oct 2008 at 12:23 pm #

   I still do not know what you mean by this term. What are the evidences of commitment to Christ? Biblically speaking are’nt the signs of commitment at least two – to believe and profess the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and to be commited to following Him and His word in daily practice? I think we confuse church-going with commitment. Commitment to what? I believe a committment to the ethics of the New Testament is absolutly essential to following Christ, and this is not always outwardly apparent. One of the most Christ-like men I have known was a man who could not attend church, was not able to give much financially to the church, had hard time reading his Bible, yet desired God and with all his being and loved everyone.

9. Marvin the Martian on 28 Oct 2008 at 12:29 pm #

   I hate to admit this, but if I am to be honest, I would have to classify myself as a nominal Christian.

   As to the question

   In your experience among the people you know who are nominal in their commitment to God (and this could be you), what do you believe the reasons are?

   I have been trying to figure this one out for years. I once had a passionate, intimate walk with Christ. I felt called to ministry and was moving towards that end. Then I fell into sin, and it was an egregious sin at that. My sin destroyed a family and resulted in an abortion. While I know that the blood of Christ covers my sin, I have never been able to forgive myself for getting ensnared in the first place. I have lived the remainder of my walk in a very nominal fashion. Sometimes regaining that passion, but far more often than not, having a distant relationship with Christ. I don’t even know if it is due to risidual guilt feelings anymore. I don’t feel guilt for my past sins anymore, though I do feel a profound sense of regret if I ever dwell upon it.

   I know all the right things, I even believe them with all my heart. I know I am a hopeless sinner and I rely upon the fact that Christ is the only hope I have for salvation. I believe in the inerrancy of scripture, I even love to defend scripture and Christ on other secular blogs when the topic arises. But when it comes to the commitment of nurturing a close walk with Christ (i.e. prayer, bible reading, etc) I just can’t seem to find the motivation. Which only makes me feel more guilty and ashamed.

   I don’t know if this answers your question, but it is one struggling person’s perspective.

10. Lisa R on 28 Oct 2008 at 12:37 pm #

    I would say there are 2 main reasons for this

    1) Insufficient presentation of the gospel: In wanting not to overwhelm people with a long diatribe of their status as a sinner, God’s redemptive plan, and the necessity of Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, we’ve swung the other way to make sure people become interested in Christ in the first place. We want them to come for sure so we provide the gospel in sound bites. Jesus said to consider the cost. I don’t think that most are asked to do that. Yes, we come as we are and by His grace we are what we are. But I think we really need to understand what we are signing up for. Which leads to reason #2

    2) Insufficient discipleship: A church program does not a disciple make. There really needs to be a grounding in the essentials of our christian faith. Again, I wonder if we are scared that we’ll run off people with “boring” stuff like some serious christian education. We want to make sure peoples needs are met and so programs arise to address the various and sundry needs such as single parenting, recovery, etc. But not so much of a focus on understanding the essentials, it seems.

    Effective discipleship also requires a community commitment as well. And I wonder in our individualistic mindset, that we lose that somewhat. Do we have someone or some people coming along side the new believer, not bearing down legalistic requirements, but truly loving the person by grace and serving as a model and friend?

    I think BritPhil asked right? Is it the fault of the nominal christian? And I would add…or is the church really doing what it should be doing-making disciples?

11. LAL on 28 Oct 2008 at 12:47 pm #

    “Nominal Christianity is defined by those who proclaim the name Christian, yet remain uncommitted in any real sense.”

    There are many interpretaions of nominal. One preacher I heard said I was not committed unless I prayed four hours a day and continually wept for the lost. Another said I was uncommitted if I did not read my Bible at least 30 min. per day. Another said I was uncommited if I missed any church meetings except for an emergency. Another said I must give at least a Tithe to the church or I was less than a Jew in the eyes of Christ.

    All of these are good things but are inadequate measures of one’s committment to Christ. I believe I am fully committed to Christ but many evangelicals may see it differently.

12. Scott on 28 Oct 2008 at 1:22 pm #

    LAL, good point, people trying to live out the expectations of others rather than being obedient to Christ and His Word will cause confusion. Sort of like listing all the externally positive religious points of the Pharisees, which were nowhere close to the habits of Jesus’ actual disciples.

    Lewis Sperry Chafer in 1918 wrote a book, “He That is Spiritual” where he writes about two classes of Christians; those considered to be carnal and those considered to be spiritual (1 Cor 2:15-3:3). It’s almost as if you can be carnal (living in the flesh or in willful sin) and still be a Christian. While no one is perfect, and we remain sinners in this life, there has to be some movement toward the image of Christ and a lessening desire toward sin… and this movement (or deepening with Christ) does not have to look like involvement in church activities. Mylon LeFever wrote it best years ago, “Love God, Hate Sin.” Not a bad life motto.

    John MacArthur’s “Gospel According to Jesus” raises the question as to how could a God who redeems your soul leave that person’s behavior untouched. Perhaps the real answer is that nominal Christians will be the ones of whom Jesus speaks in Matthew 7:21-23. “Many” on that day will say they believed all the right stuff about Jesus and did good works for Him, but the kicker response is “depart from Me, I never knew you.” While we cannot judge another’s salvation, we can certainly inspect the fruit they bear.

13. Jason on 28 Oct 2008 at 1:34 pm #

    For what do you live?

    For what would you die?

    These are the questions that matter.

    Nominalism is not the position of being distant from God. Indeed considering the nature of God being distant may be a better position to consider the goodness and severity of our God. Those who dwell too close may become infatuated with the idea of God as “daddy” rather than God as “Father”.

    Nominalism is, in my view, is not the state of taking important things lightly. Chesterton would, I’m sure, say that only the important things can be taken lightly, because they can take care of themselves.

    Nominalism would be the state of not considering the important things at all. Marvin for example is not nominal, he is distant. He does consider the important things.

    From Edmund Cooke’s How did you die?

    And though you be done to the death, what then?
    If you battled the best you could,
    If you played your part in the world of men,
    Why, the Critic will call it good.
    Death comes with a crawl, or comes with a pounce,
    And whether he’s slow or spry,
    It isn’t the fact that you’re dead that counts,
    But only how did you die?

14. Marvin the Martian on 28 Oct 2008 at 2:03 pm #

    Perhaps the real answer is that nominal Christians will be the ones of whom Jesus speaks in Matthew 7:21-23. “Many” on that day will say they believed all the right stuff about Jesus and did good works for Him, but the kicker response is “depart from Me, I never knew you.” While we cannot judge another’s salvation, we can certainly inspect the fruit they bear.

    For my sake, I hope you are wrong Scott!!

    I to think about this verse and it’s application in my own life. It is sobering to be sure. But given that the context of this passage is a warning about false prophets, I don’t believe that this particular passage speaks to me. There are many others that do, but not this one.

15. Smile on 28 Oct 2008 at 2:09 pm #

    Marvin the Martian,
    Thanks for posting that comment. I am stuck right there in the same boat as you. I don’t know what to do about it…

16. Terry J on 28 Oct 2008 at 2:15 pm #

    We have so many nominal Christians because we preach a nominal faith and proclaim a nominal gospel message. A nominal church is producing what it promulgates. We sell Christianity as if it is some easy step to “Your Best Life Now,” and we sell Jesus as a life coach. Come to the altar, pray a prayer, “nail it down,” and your in the club. Now here’s a lifetime supply of shallow (entertainment) worship services and moralistic sermons on how to live your life and “5 Steps to a healthy _______.” True spiritual growth – almost non-existent in many of our churches.

    Where’s the true Biblical gospel? We seem to have lost it somewhere along the way. What’s the problem with contemporary Christianity? We are. I’m sure Michael Horton’s book “Christless Christianity” explains and examines all of this much better than I can.

17. Truth Unites... and Divides on 28 Oct 2008 at 2:17 pm #

    Scott: “John MacArthur’s “Gospel According to Jesus” raises the question as to how could a God who redeems your soul leave that person’s behavior untouched.”

    I just finished reading the 20-year anniversary edition of this book and it’s excellent.

    Pastor MacArthur does touch upon Easy Believism and Cheap Grace in his book and its resultant effect in producing “nominal Christians”.

18. Lisa R on 28 Oct 2008 at 4:01 pm #

    Marvin and Smile,

    I have been where you are. Little feels worse than no feeling at all for the things you know you are supposed to be passionate about. Worse though, is the “kicked to the curb” feeling due to really bad choices. Even now, long after repentance and headed on a pretty cool ministry direction, those feelings of inadequacy creep up. Something like, the picture of my life would probably be prettier and more complete if I had stayed on track, even though I am on track now. I feel like I have to endure consequences of those decisions. Does that make sense?

    But on this faith journey, I’ve learned a few things I hope will encourage you.

    1) Faith is just that – faith, not feelings. Though there may be a hollowness at times, I grab hold of the promises. Its gets hard to do that at times, especially if you’re in a place of dispassion and emotional nothingness. And I think God sometimes puts us in places of emotional nothingness so that we can learn to depend on Him and not our feelings. Keep putting one foot in front of the other, I think is important.

    2) I am His. Regardless of past choices, He has not kicked me to the curb because I’ve made them nor abandoned me to a spiritual siberia. Who can separate us from the love of Christ? (see Rom 8:35-39). If you have trusted Christ as your savior, no one or nothing.

    3) Cry out to God. At times there is nothing else one can do but this. Formula prayers, spiritual rituals or service activities won’t cut it when one’s heart feels that disconnect. He knows all about it anyway (see Psalm 139)

    4) God is sovereign and has a way of working everything out for His good. I have never felt a greater sense of ministry passion as I do now to minister to those who have been just like me. I believe He will take even the wrong choices I’ve made and use them for His glory. There are times when I don’t see how or when or where. But He knows and I’ve asked but one thing…make my tears count for Your good.

    I hope that wasn’t too preachy I do hope you both find once again the joy of your salvation. Take care brothers.

    Lisa

19. Jim on 28 Oct 2008 at 4:02 pm #

    Why are there so many nominal Christians?

    Because it’s easy (at least in the US).

20. C Michael Patton on 28 Oct 2008 at 4:16 pm #

    Good stuff guys, thanks for the honesty. Lisa, thanks for the sensitive response.

21. Susan on 28 Oct 2008 at 9:55 pm #

    Marvin and Smile, I too wanted to address you both, and now see that my friend Lisa has. Thanks Lisa, you offer the perspective of a believer who was derailed, but by God’s grace repented and headed down the right path. This was true of David.

    I will offer another possibility. My husband was a nominal Christian for 21 years of our marriage. He always attended church with me, but it seemed that everything went in one ear and out the other. There was no fruit evidencing a transformed heart. A tree is known by it’s fruit. James speaks of a faith without works, which is dead. It is possible to believe the right things, in your head, but not have a relationship with God at all. It is possible that you have even had some sort of “conversion experience”….such as going forward at an alter call, or having “asked Jesus into your heart” as a child. It is possible that you could do such a thing and yet not have come to a point of true repentance and saving faith…. a true conversion. It is possible to be a self-deceived, false convert.

    My husband went forward at an evangelistic concert four years before we got married. Our marriage was hard. We were never on the same wavelength. I began to doubt over the years that he was truly in Christ. There was no evidence to suggest that he was. It’s not that he committed gross immoral sins as most would classify, but he never exhibited the fruit of the Spirit in his life. He was typically angry, lacked peace, joyless, lacked self control in the way he treated me, was unloving etc. He rarely read God’s word. He didn’t desire it. He wasn’t interested in building relationships with other believers. He just sat through church every Sunday, hearing the word preached well, but lived like a hypocrite– especially at home.

    don’t want to get cut off, so…..

22. Susan on 28 Oct 2008 at 10:23 pm #

    I meanwhile have developed a love for sharing the Gospel. It was one way that I could be used by God which didn’t require scheduled time commitments which my husband might object to. Increasingly it began to bother me that I was sharing the Gospel with others, while having serious doubts about the salvation of my own husband.

    I began to pray that God would help me to know, one way or the other, whether my husband was in Him or not. I figured that if I knew, I would have a better sense about what to do. God answered this prayer of mine in a very specific way. He showed me how it irritated my husband when I spent time sharing the Gospel with someone… how disdainful he would become. My husband also expressed his irritation with my great interest in reading Christian books, and listening to Christian radio preachers. He didn’t like who I had become. He let me know how fanatical he thought I was. It was like God caused him to burst out with all of his true thoughts that day… all of the things he had never quite dared express. I knew that God had shown me what I had asked of Him.

    I then began to pray that God would give me the wisdom to know what to do about it….. what I should maybe say to my husband. One morning we had gone out to breakfast, and I felt as if God said: “Now.”

    So, I figured I better respond to that nudge. It turned out to be the perfect time and place. I told my husband that I had been doubting, for quite a long time, that he was truly a child of God. This definitely caught his attention. He was surprised and asked why. It was a conversation not without rough spots, but that’s why it was good that we were waiting for our food. We had to stay there together. When we left, I felt satisfied that I had said what I needed to say, and that he had heard me.

    In the days to follow it was evident that my husband was giving much thought to what I had said….. and talking with God intently about it. About a month later, right after Christmas, I turned on the radio and there was a pastor talking about false conversion. My husband was in the room, and was glued, because he had been thinking much about this possibility. We tuned in the next day as well.
    Continuing…..

23. Smile on 28 Oct 2008 at 10:45 pm #

    Lisa and Susan, I just wanted to say thanks for your responses…

24. Susan on 28 Oct 2008 at 11:33 pm #

    That night my husband told me that he felt very convicted. I believe that he was truly experiencing the conviction of God’s Spirit. He told me that he just wanted to have peace….. the peace he never had. In the days to follow he asked me questions, and we had some of the most meaningful discussions we had ever had. It was finally to come to a head this past summer, about the time of our 21st anniversary. Our pastor preached from Matt. 7:24-28.
    By the way Marvin, Matt. 7:21-23 is not speaking to false teachers, as you have supposed. It is speaking to the judgement of pretenders, and false converts. You should read it with that in mind.

    My husband told me, a week after that sermon, that he had something to tell me. That he finally had peace. He was finally ready to give himself completely to Jesus. I was so bathed in peace myself at that moment…. it was like I was slowly absorbing what he had said. He told me that he wanted to talk with our pastor, which he did do a week later. Before he went to meet with him, I asked him: “I am thinking that this is the time of your true conversion….. is that what you are thinking?” He answered affirmatively.

    Since that time, he has had a great desire to read and study God’s word! He has made a daily habit of this, and doesn’t like to miss it. He still wrestles with some of his former habits, but he is convicted, and desires to part from his old ways.

    Marvin and smile, I appreciate your honesty. I would not spend this much time at this normally, but maybe God compelled me to address you, and anyone else who might benefit from my (my husband’s) story.

    Scott, I think that you offered some good thoughts. The book you mentioned, I did not read (The Gospel According to Jesus), but John MacArthur did preach through it. He has a series of sermons by the same name, but I listened to the series called: “Salvation Survey”. It was excellent. His purpose was to help those who are in your shoes (Marvin and Smile) to evaluate whether they are truly in Christ or not….. people who are where you are. I would highly recommend that you listen to the series. You can find it by googling John MacArthur. I just read on Justin Taylor’s blog today that all of MacArthur’s sermons will soon be FREE for Mp3 etc. Please do listen to the Salvation Survey series. You will not be sorry. I will pray for you.

    I believe that MacArthur is right when he says that churches are full of self-decieved, false converts….. i.e. “Nominal Christians”. It is time for the church to wake up to this. There are many tares among us, as Christ has said that there are. They are planted by Satan, the deceiver. Many of them are those who earn the label “hypocrites”. Many are the sons and daughters who “leave the faith” once they leave home.

    This is a timely post Michael. This needs to be addressed.

25. Truth Unites... and Divides on 29 Oct 2008 at 8:52 am #

    Dear Susan,

    Your series of comments about your love for your husband’s soul and salvation and what God did through you was touchingly beautiful and inspirational.

    You are quite right. The topic needs to be addressed… with urgency! MacArthur also has a sermon titled: “Saved or Self-Deceived?” Nominal Christians are all too likely to be self-deceived. And are walking towards and through the wide gate.

    One hazardous and aggravating possibility of evangelizing and making genuine disciples of nominal Christians is that many nominal Christians will falsely accuse genuine Christians of many bad things, even making personal attacks. In response, many Christians will just back off, rather than deal with the toxic anger of a nominal Christian.

    And thus the nominal Christian insulates himself or herself from loving correction and exhortation.

    And that is why I heartily applaud you Susan. You have pierced the wall of defensiveness and self-deception with your husband. Your prayers and the Holy Spirit did the work. Very good. Very, very good.

26. Vladimir on 29 Oct 2008 at 8:53 am #

    “What must I do to be elected?”

    Sarah Hagan, a democrate running against Elizabeth Dole in NC has been exposed as denying God and taking part in and being funded by atheistic groups which lobby for the removal of any and all religious language in the Government.

    She maintains that she is a believer and even an elder in the church (PCUSA), but….

    Vladimir

27. carol on 29 Oct 2008 at 10:15 am #

    A couple of reasons for nominal Christians:

    Luke 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

    Rev 2: 4-5 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

28. LAL on 29 Oct 2008 at 12:29 pm #

    A Paradox:

    The more I evaluate myself two things happen. I get more peaceful in my walk with Christ because I know what He really wants and deserves from me is my love and obedience . He certainly love me to death. And secondly, The more I evaluate myself the more uneasy I become that I am not loving and worshipping and following as I should.

    So, as a pilgrim on the way with Jesus I am at once rejoicing and repenting. Am I completely luney? If so I think I like this way a lot better than the old overly self-condemnation and guilt route.

    Believe me, this present course is the result of the worst doubts about my faith and about God himself. The darkness was great but the Light was greater.

    I was blessed with a massive struggle over my faith. Thank God.

29. Smile on 29 Oct 2008 at 1:04 pm #

    Thanks everyone for their responses. Let me tell you a little bit about where I’m at right now.

    I’m in my early 20’s. I grew up in a Christian home and have gone to church all of my life (I still do). I asked Jesus into my life at a young age. I was involved in the youth group and went to church camp and all of that. I’ve been ’saved’ many times…that kind of has to do with the tradition that I grew up in. Me getting ’saved’ so many times hits on a larger problem. That problem is grace. I feel like I can’t obtain it. I know it’s there, but I can’t wrap my arms around it. This brings me back to the denomination I grew up in again. They teach Christian perfection. I always felt that I was never good enough. I feared that I could die at any moment and that I would go to hell. This has really worn on me. Over the years I have rejected the tradition I grew up in and now embrace reformed theology. However, my struggle with grace has not gone away. I believe in perseverence of the saints, but I still worry about whether I am really a Christian or not.

    Like Marvin said, I believe all of the rights things. I love Jesus. I read many theological books. I am generally a good person (I know that means nothing in the grande scheme of things). However, I continue to struggle with sin and I continue to fall flat on myself. I’ve asked for forgiveness and for repentance but I continue to do the same dumb things. It just gets old and I don’t know how to get out of this rut. I try to read my Bible but I’m not good at it so I always end up getting discouraged and stop. I try to pray but I’m pretty lousy at that as well. I don’t know what to do about this struggle I have with grace and the lack of sovereign joy. Sorry that I’m kind all over the place with all of this but, these are just some things I’m thinking about right now…

30. Lisa R on 29 Oct 2008 at 1:07 pm #

    LAL,

    Your description, which I think goes for a lot of us if we’re honest, I think, reminds me of this passage in 2 Peter 1:

    10Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;

    11for in this way [making sure about your election] the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

    Emphasis=making sure

    It takes more than just saying yes to Jesus at that altar call, which btw I am not too in favor of. It is a lifelong pursuit filled with peaks and valleys, and is bound at some point to bring questions what we’re doing and what we are believing. But it does require perpetual motion. We can’t stop…making sure.

31. Lisa R on 29 Oct 2008 at 1:10 pm #

    Smile, your honesty is refreshing. Have you read Grace Awakening by Chuck Swindoll? If not, I would highly recommend it.

32. Smile on 29 Oct 2008 at 1:13 pm #

    I own it but haven’t read it yet.

33. Susan on 29 Oct 2008 at 1:45 pm #

    TUandD,

    Thanks for taking the time to read our story, and for the encouraging words.

    You are right, that it can sometimes be very challenging to approach a nominal Christian with the Gospel. They are very defensive typically, and quick to see our concern as something other than loving. Often they view it as judgemental.

    The problem is, in part, that they have become ‘Gospel hardened’. The Gospel is something others need to consider, but they see themselves as having it all nailed down. It is common for such a person to live with a very self-righteous framework without even realizing it. Their standard becomes other people. As long as they can compare themselves to a handful of others and tell themselves that they are doing better, they have satisfied their need to feel that they’re OK…..(alleviating guilt). My husband actually told me one day that he did this (before comming to Christ). I stopped him and told him that our pastor has said that we should never do this…..and God has said it 2 Cor. 10:12….. after all, everyone falls desperately short of God’s standard, and requirement.

    My husband said that he had gone forward at that concert because he was “scared to death to go to hell”. It’s possible to desire to escape the wrath of God…. the justice of God, without being in a place of Holy Spirit-induced conviction over your own sin. You cannot truly repent without this work of the Holy Spirit. It’s not about choosing Jesus, but rather, it is receiving Jesus. It’s a matter of submitting to the conviction of the Spirit of God. Believe (who Jesus says He is), and repent (turning from the sin of the past). That is what is required by God, for salvation.

    There are two other people (probably more) in my life who I believe are also self-deceived…. not in Christ. It is intimidating at times to talk with one of them, because she is quick to accuse me of being judgemental. The other person, I have yet to share my concerns with. I really need to ask for God’s Spirit to bring conviction to their hearts, and for wisdom for myself…. for the right time and words. Sharing the gospel always puts us in a place of needing to work with God’s Spirit. He will be there.

34. Susan on 29 Oct 2008 at 1:54 pm #

    Smile, I agree with Lisa (as always ), Grace Awakening would be a good read for you. I gave this book to my husband months, ago becaused I knew that he struggled with what you have shared. Actually, he came into a true relationship with the Lord while in the middle of reading that Book! He has assurance now.

    Gosh Lisa, this is like old times!

35. Truth Unites... and Divides on 29 Oct 2008 at 1:56 pm #

    Dear Susan,

    You are obediently faithful. Thankfully, the results are in God’s Hands.

    Let me share with you a comment from a long-time self-deceived nominal Christian who, by the grace of God, awoke from her death sleep. (I’ve anonymized it)

    “My name is Jane Doe from Anycity, Anystate. I have been a “silent partner” of this blog for a little over a year now . (I love you folks). Until now, I have been content to read the threads and learn from you all, but now I just have to comment.

    I grew up “in church”. When I was 8 or 9, I went up at an altar call. I don’t recall being convicted by my sin (as in the Law is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ…) It was that “ask Jesus into your heart” message (which I learned later isn’t in the Bible!)

    I then proceeded to live as I wanted for many, many years and sad to say, I piled up lots more sin. There was no Fruit of the Spirit, and I did not attend church until I had children. I became more involved in church and if there ever was a legalist or a Pharisee it was me. I knew how to “do church” and I taught Sunday School, led the Youth Group, was the President of the Ladies’ Group,was on the Prayer Chain, etc. and you know what? I WAS NOT SAVED!!!!

    How do I know this? Because I read my Bible and listened to preachers that actually preached the WHOLE GOSPEL,IN CONTEXT, (ie John MacArthur). In reading the word, I was convicted of my utter sinfulness. The words of Christ, Himself were most convicting of all. He turned out not to be the easy breezy fem hippy guy I was brought up with! THE MESSAGE MATTERS!!!

    If I would have died, I would have went straight to hell, so I plead with Pastor John Doe to consider how serious this is. To paraphrase Ezekiel: If you are the watchman on the wall and the enemy is coming you better warn the people or their blood is on your head. The whole Word, in context, no apologies. “

36. Lisa R on 29 Oct 2008 at 5:59 pm #

    Thanks Susan

    TUAD,

    I believe you highlighted one of the main reasons for false conversion and why we have to real thorough with altar calls. Do you know that not too long ago, I visited a church here in Dallas for 2 weeks in a row. I thought it would be a solid footing since the pastor is an alumnus of the prominent seminary here. Well both times, there was an altar call at the end of the message summed up in the “get your life right with God so you can be better” message. Perhaps elders explained accurately the gospel in the one on one in the back with the person. I do not know. All I know is that we have to present people with the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

    No mention of sin or the cross or resurrection when extending an invitation is, in my humble opinion, a tragedy. But yet invitations like this are extended in a whole lot of places, and people genuinely, I believe want something better, and they respond. But are they responding because they want a better life or are they responding due to a conviction of their sin and a need for a savior? The former I’m afraid cannot help but yield the group that Jesus addresses in Matt 7:21-23.

37. Wayne in Frisco on 03 Nov 2008 at 2:35 pm #

    I recently had the pleasure of attending the DEEPER conference in Atlanta, held by Living Waters. Paul Washer spoke at the conference and his message is free for download here: http://www.heartcrymissionary.com/about/updates
    10/20/08

    The problem in the church today is not that people are gospel “hardened” as much as they are gospel “ignorant”. Washer explains that modern evangelicalism has replaced the Roman Catholic infant baptism with “ask Jesus into your heart” and you can go through life living however you want and be assured that you will still get to heaven. The solution to nominal Christianity is people being saved.

    I did the alter call thing when I was 14. I then went through high school and college and, other than attending church occasionally, you couldn’t tell the difference between me and the lost. God has changed my heart and given me the passion that was missing. It was missing because I had never been regenerated by His Spirit. When my doubts crept in, I went to a pastor at my church and shared with him. He reminded me that I had made my “decision” and that it was just the devil sewing seeds of doubt in my heart. That was a lie. The doubt I felt was from God’s Spirit convicting me of who I was. As someone has already said, “Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves.” 2 Corinthians 13:5

    I feel so much sympathy and empathy for those who have shared their concerns about their own salvation in this thread. I applaud Susan for her ability to identify the problem and relate to people in a gentle and loving but truthful manner.

    Much of the church today believes that if the world can see Jesus in us, they will come to Him. That’s not true – if the world see Jesus in us, the world will crucify us like they did him.

    My prayers for all of you that are struggling and those who are counseling.

38. Susan on 03 Nov 2008 at 2:57 pm #

    Thanks Wayne, I appreciate your comments. Of course, God brought me through many deep waters to bring me to that understanding. He has schooled, and is schooling me, to be an effective messenger of the Gospel. Among many things which I’ve learned in this process….. that it is better to pray much, and speak the hard truth to those we love, than to remain silent (unless they are absolutely unwilling to listen…. that we must leave in God’s hands).

    A woman told me her testimony recently…. sounded much like yours. She was involved in the “I found it Campaign” many years ago. As she shared the Four Spiritual Laws booklet with others, she came to realize that she herself was not saved. She went to her pastor and expressed this. He was surprised, and basically told her she was fine. She told me that she was at that time, very involved in teaching Sunday School and such at the church. It wasn’t until she left there and attended a different church (years later), that she finally came to know the Lord as her Savior.

    As far as “hardened” goes…. I said that with my husband (and others who sit in churches where the Gospel is well articulated) in mind. It’s possible to listen but not have “ears to hear” (the Holy Spirit gives us that).

39. Scott Arnold on 05 Nov 2008 at 10:58 am #

    Been awhile since I’ve visited, but this topic is close to my heart and I’m glad you wrote on it Michael.

    I have considered myself a Christian all my life. Grew up in the Methodist church, went almost every week growing up, continued to attend regularly in college and after marriage. When I was young, of course, I went because my parents (who are nominal Christians) did. Later I chose to go on my own because it seemed the right thing to do.

    I believe this is one difference between a nominal and faithful Christian. While the nominal Christian BELIEVES IN GOD, the faithful Christian BELIEVES GOD.

    So why was I a nominal Christian? Well, because I wasn’t regenerated yet! OK, I know that’s not what you are looking for. I was a nominal Christian for many reasons:

    No passion to reflect on my faith
    No passion to read the Bible
    No passion to learn about Christianity
    A love for the things of the world
    A belief that faithful Christians were boring
    Poor preaching from the Methodist pulpit
    Denial (or lack of notice) of the general revelation I saw daily
    Not enough contact with people who might evangelize to me

    I believe that these experiences were necessary in my walk. My ability to share these and relate to others who experience these same problems has helped me to share the Gospel to many, and also given me a passion to try to reach nominal Christians within the pews of my church. Although I sometimes wish I would have turned to Christ sooner in my life, I don’t think I would be nearly as effective as a disciple.

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