Parchment and Pen » Jesusanity vs. Christianity

Jesusanity vs. Christianity

~ C Michael Patton ~

This is a great lesson taught by Darrell Bock at Faith Bible Church. It is worth listening to.

Bock - Jesusanity vs. Christianity [45:18m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

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My summary/high points:

“Jesusanity is an attempt to have a high view of Jesus without having a unique view of Jesus.”
Christianity has become so culturally isolated that they don’t know how to engage people about Christ.
Christians know a lot about what the Bible says, but not much about the Bible (history, canon, text, etc.)
The current “Jesus Crisis” is the fault of the church not truly educating the its people.
Being prepared to represent Christ accurately requires study—hard study—and time.
Christians need to recognize that we only need to get people to acknowledge that the Bible is “basically” true, we don’t need to force inerrancy down their throat. The closer they get to Jesus, the higher their view of the Bible will eventually be. In other words, get the Christology right and the bibliology will take care of itself.
When Jesus performed miracles, he did not appeal to another authority. This makes his miracles unique.
Revisionists say that “history is written by the winners.” Bock: Sometimes the winners deserve to win because they were right and this is why they won.
Your friends and neighbors are watching the history channel, going to Barnes and Noble, and being overwhelmed by a culture that is fascinated with Jesus, but does not believe in the historic Christian Jesus (Jesusanity). We must be prepared to engage their views of Jesus and what they are being taught through these venues.
Don’t start the Gospel with the debate over evolution and creation. You can get to that later, after you have introduced them to Christ.

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No Responses to “Jesusanity vs. Christianity”

britphil on 02 Oct 2008 at 6:30 am #

Just in case many of you are beginning to think that I am incapable of contributing anything other than posts of a political/economic persuasion I hope I can begin to set your minds a little more at rest!!

This is fantastic stuff. I must admit I had never really thought about the Jesusianity versus Christianity dichotomy before. Within UK Christianity there is a often confusion between authentic Christianity and mere Churchianity which when you unpack them are two entirely different creatures.

“Being prepared to represent Christ accurately requires study—hard study—and time.”

Couldn’t agree more!

Christians need to recognize that we only need to get people to acknowledge that the Bible is “basically” true, we don’t need to force inerrancy down their throat. The closer they get to Jesus, the higher their view of the Bible will eventually be. In other words, get the Christology right and the bibliology will take care of itself.

Absolutely spot on. We can argue till the cows come home with “non-believers” about the finer nuances of scriptural texts and their alleged total inerrancy, but if we show them that we believe the Bible is basically true and there are things that we still struggle with as well as them, isn’t that a more honest, refrshing and engaging approach to take.

“Your friends and neighbors are watching the history channel, going to Barnes and Noble, and being overwhelmed by a culture that is fascinated with Jesus, but does not believe in the historic Christian Jesus (Jesusanity). We must be prepared to engage their views of Jesus and what they are being taught through these venues. ”

I am familiar with the History Channel, although I’m not quite sure who Barnes and Noble are, but I heartily endorse Darrell’s sentiments here.

“Don’t start the Gospel with the debate over evolution and creation. You can get to that later, after you have introduced them to Christ”

Please can we emblazon this statement over our every church entrance. Equally as maddening is the tendency to begin with “end-time” stuff from the other end of the Bible ie Revelation. Let’s start with who Jesus is, what he did, taught and accomplished whilst here on earth is and what his death, resurrection an ascension have achieved. If they don’t accept this there’s no way they are going to buy into the creation argument. We also need to be aware that there will be some who will deliberately attempt to steer us down the cul-de-sac of the creation versus evolution debate and steer us away from discussing Jesus himself, and sadly many of us are only all too willing to go there!
Radical Legacy » Jesusanity v. Christianity on 02 Oct 2008 at 7:59 am #

[...] at Parchment and Pen, C. Michael Patton has provided a summary and audio of a presentation by Darrell Bock. Important thoughts to keep in [...]
Don Andersen on 02 Oct 2008 at 9:57 am #

You said,
Don’t start the Gospel with the debate over evolution and creation. You can get to that later, after you have introduced them to Christ.
I like this. You could add lots of others too. Like don’t try to force unbelievers to be against abortion and stem cell research. Those things come from a new life within.
I believe when presenting the gospel this verse is of the utmost importance:
(KJV) Luke 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
IF we are giving messages that only adults can understand….we are missing the mark. A mark set my Christ himself!
Raquelamisto on 02 Oct 2008 at 10:01 am #

Barnes and Noble is a ginormous bookstore chain.
britphil on 02 Oct 2008 at 10:28 am #

“I like this. You could add lots of others too. Like don’t try to force unbelievers to be against abortion and stem cell research. Those things come from a new life within.”

Don..absolutely spot on.

Raquelamisto..thanks for enlightening me about B & N. Much appreciated. Sounds likeit is the equivalent of Waterstones here in the uk.
Susan on 02 Oct 2008 at 11:58 am #

Excellent talk by Bock! I love his clarity. Focusing on Jesus makes sharing the Gospel a surmountable task. We tend to get so freeked out about the possibility that we will have to answer to Richard Dawkins that we hesitate to begin the discussion. I’ve found, time and again that people are more open to talking about Jesus, and the Gospel, than you would expect. And of course the fantastic thing is that the message of the Gospel is inherently powerful (if we dare speak it!), and God’s Spirit is right there with us to help us with what to say, if we just ask.

The book Bock speaks from is *Dethroning Jesus*.
Michael, you forgot to mention that the co-author is none other than Dan Wallace?!
Vladimir on 02 Oct 2008 at 12:03 pm #

This may be a good thing and maybe not. I dislike the term “Jesusanity”. I simply prefer the use of historical Jesus.

The nature of the Bible is simple. It is the unfolding of the history of salvation in time and space.

The accuracy and credibility of the Scriptures is based on eyewitness testimony – period.

The credibility or trustworthiness of this testimony lies with God Himself alone – not with a keen witted apologetic method.

I still think that the emphasis of the Church should be focused on the education and nuture of Christ’s sheep.

The basic point of contact between a believer and unbeliever is Romans 2:14-16. The problem is they do not want to be engaged or the believer is motivated by some ulterior motive other than simpy sharing the gospel message of redemption and offering Christ to them. They can’t convert them – only God can do that.

Vladimir
Susan on 02 Oct 2008 at 12:47 pm #

Vladamir,

Jesusanity: An ideology in universities and in the media which depicts Jesus of Nazereth as a first-century political radical, an advocate for social justice, and a prophet of mystic wisdom. It explicitly denies any historical basis to the Jesus of faith and creeds.

This is the definition printed in the book jacket of *Dethroning Jesus*. It’s the ‘opposite’ of ‘historic Jesus’, as you put it, not a different term for the same.

Also, you made the statement: “I still think that the emphasis of the church should be focused on the education and nurture of Christ’s sheep”.

I’m not sure exactly why you made that statement. I agree that that is a key role of the church, but an essential mission of the church is to share the Gospel. Sheep need to be often reminded of this, and instructed as to how to go about it.
grg on 02 Oct 2008 at 3:36 pm #

@Michael — Good post. Loved the audio.

I find too many who try to find the Jesus they want rather than the one they need, as described in Scripture. This leads them to “evangelize” by selling others the Jesus they want rather than the one they need.

@Vladimir — Feeding and equipping the sheep is truly an important job of the church (Eph. 4:11-16), but I would suggest that the basic point of contact between believer and nonbeliever is Matt. 28:18-20. Yes we are supposed to be examples, lighted cities that bring glory to God (Mat. 5:14-16), demonstrating hope that causes others to ask for a reason (1 Pet 3:15). Evangelism comes by both word and deed, powered by the Holy Spirit (Rom 15:18-20). But how will people know if nobody tells them? That doesn’t apply just to missionaries.

A former pastor of mine used to say, “If you can’t pick the fruit, don’t bruise it,” as a way of discouraging the shove-the-gospel-down-their-throat method of evangelism. And I agree with that. However, the danger is that we too often use that as an excuse to silence the gospel. How did we get to the point where we say things like “simply sharing the gospel message of redemption,” as if there were ultimately some better thing we could do for someone? The gospel, the verbal good news about the facts of what Christ accomplished on the cross, is not a simple message — it is the power of God for salvation (Rom 1:16).

Press on!
grg
Jude 3
“Jesusanity vs. Christianity” : The Daily Scroll on 02 Oct 2008 at 3:40 pm #

[...] Hear the audio of this message by Dallas Seminary New Testament prof Darrell Bock (HT: Parchment and Pen). [...]
grg on 02 Oct 2008 at 3:46 pm #

@Michael and others — Excellent points about differentiating the gospel from hot-button topics. Peoples’ most pressing problem is not that they believe in evolution, drink alcohol, vote Democrat, wear jeans, or whatever else trips our triggers that day. Their most pressing problem is that they are dead in their sin and need to trust the completed work of Christ on the cross. That is the abiding, uniquely Christian message of the Church.

Those other things — or at least some of them — may be important, and the Church should speak to those things, but to the extent we stray from the gospel as our first love and primary message, we cease to be the Church.

Press on!
grg
Jude 3
Vladimir on 02 Oct 2008 at 6:55 pm #

Thanks Susan and others for your input. The conceptualization of “Jesusanity” as stated by Susan is a prevailing view among unregenerate university scholars in Europe and in liberal secular institutions here in America.

While I don’t wish to minimize the importance of evangelism, it is not the sole commandment in the NT. In fact, I think the shallow preparedness of Christ’s sheep has caused the Church at large to swallow some unsavory morsels from the godless intruders into her ranks, e.g. tolerance of homosexuality, women in church offices, social ethics that equal philanthropic secularism. This and these ecumenical manuvers have nullified the sharp dichitomy between Christ’s kingdom and that of satan.

I too, don’t think most Christians grasp the strength of “lostness” in an unbeliever’s mind. Only the Spirit of God could ever unlock this impenetratable stronghold.

I also think the (eastern) Orthodox have a better grasp of the relationship of justification and sanctification, repentance and good works. It is a completely other way of life under Christ’s reign – not simply a mechanical and intellectual assent.

Vladimir
grg on 03 Oct 2008 at 7:54 am #

@Vladimir — Good points. Those are some very good criticisms of many modern churches and believers, especially the ’shallow preparedness’ and ‘intellectual assent.’

I think one of the reasons many Christians don’t grasp the “lostness” in an unbeleiver’s mind is that they don’t grasp the lostness from which they were (presumably) saved. Sadly, too many churches and Christians preach a gospel in which intellectual assent is a satisfactory response.

Press on!
grg
Jude 3
Ruben on 03 Oct 2008 at 12:40 pm #

I think it is too true that most churches engage the intellect only, I think
we have used “sola scriptura” to an extreme, in that one’s study of the
Bible is the chief goal. I think we overcomplicate in many ways, for me it is
better to simplify and focus on the actual core message. Sometimes I
think there are way too many trends and gimmicks and arguments. I also
have been attending this church where I have yet to hear a sermon using
a text from the gospels (to be fair however, they have series’ on OT heroes
and the like so it will take time to get to the NT!).
Dale on 03 Oct 2008 at 4:05 pm #

This is one of my pet peeves about Christianity. Some Christians want to push people to live the morality of a Christian or to accept extra-biblical orthodox views before the people come into a saving relationship with Christ.

We should never expect someone who lives an immoral life to change their ways before they know Christ. How much energy has the church wasted fighting specific sins rather than addressing the root problem, knowing Christ.
Don Andersen on 04 Oct 2008 at 9:49 am #

Vladimir:
I still think that the emphasis of the Church should be focused on the education and nuture of Christ’s sheep.

A Hearty AMEN Brother!! Read Acts to Revelation and this is abundantly clear. Ever epistle Paul wrote was to the believers! Too often churches get bogged down with ONLY the gospel in every service and there is no food for the sheep. The gospel is important but so is spiritual education. 1 Peter 2:2 tells us that even the “newbies” desire this in order to grow. I believe Heb 5:10-14 is speaking of a situation where the older believer needed to go back and start over because they hadn’t been fed meat yet, but by this time they should have advanced to that point. I think we do the sheep a disservice when we concentrate only on the gospel.
Jason on 08 Oct 2008 at 1:40 pm #

I wish churches here did make some attempt to engage the intellect. If I hear one more vacuous “daddy loves you” prophecy I think I’ll scream.

Intellectual assent is not the sole component of Christianity, but it is an important part. After all, how can people give their allegiance to a person or position when their intellect is rebelling against every part.

After all the commandment is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart mind strength and soul.” That is with the whole person.
Reg on 11 Oct 2008 at 3:02 pm #

Michael:
It seems this message is part of a series – Dr. Bock mentions “in the first hour I talked about”…do you have a link to the other parts of the series?
roger olson on 31 Dec 2008 at 2:49 pm #

Please list for me the “basically true” and the “non-basically true” parts for the bible. Especially in light of 2 Tim. 3:16-17. Would list list be “basically” the same as the ‘essenstials” and “non-essentials” list? I worry that since I’m no scholar that I might leave something off one list or the other. Thank you.