britphil,

The theological disparity, in fact a gulf, separates us on the point of departure of these issues. Permit me to elaborate on but a few.

The Kingdom of God is a vibrant, dynamic, spiritual reality that has already “broken into and is advancing” in this mundane realm. The Kingdom of God/Heaven(s) is in fact better termed Reign of God.

The advance of this Reign/Kingdom is God initiated, maintained and quickened (old term). It’s advance is not dependant on us per se, although we (i.e., the visible and invisible Church) are the instrumentality ofttimes which God has chosen to use in time and space to bring about HIS purposes.

The basic premise upon which I proceed is from an Augustinian/Calvinistic perspective and understanding. My conceptualization of the Kingdom of God is based on the writings and interpretations of Scripture by such authors as e.g., G. Vos and H. Ridderbos.

If you were to go back and read your too hasty and quick to the draw remarks I think you will find a strife laden individual who is more interested in hearing himself speak than one concerned with understanding the truth and living accordingly.

I would suggest that you sit back and take a few deep breathes before you find yourself reposting three or four posts when one carefully thought out and read over ONE will do. Rashness and recklessness are fruits of the flesh.

Vladimir

The sad thing is that I did not even need to watch the video to know what you are talking about. While I am involved in discipling teens these days, the other sad thing is, I still understand what you are saying. Yep, I know what you said is true! Unfortunately, many the high school graduating class of the last couple of years, having been indoctrinated into liberal mentalities and beliefs and really have no clue the damage thier vote in the election as well as in hot propositions on the ballot will have on American society.

I share the gospel with various young people on the streets regularly, and it is clear that they still dont know anything about anything, yet they can be “pumped” up by hype and fad beliefs and go with it, not knowing the impact it will have for others and their children (in a ‘big time’ negative way).

“Your conceptualizations of the Kingdom of God and its purposes are foreign to the Bible. You have transposed a sociological framework and imposed it onto the words of Scripture.

Hi Vladimir. I apologise for the previous message. It was sent before I had the chance to edit it. Here is how it should have read.

I will try to be a bit more gracious in response and veer away from rudeness which in itself often borders on mindlessness, I am sorry but I have to disagree. There are some of us who wish to see God’s kingdom come and to work in order to usher in his second coming and indeed to speed its arrival.

It is not a socioligal transposition at all. If we are n0t to get stuck in here on earth what is the point? What on earth are we here for? As a mere intellectual pursuit? Just to stand idly by on the sidelines and carp, criticise and moralise from afar? Let’ sface it we are all capable of doing that till the cows come home! You appear to just be satisifed to pass tired moralistic judgements from afar and not be willing to get stuck in to make much of a difference.

As for baseless mindless rhetoric, have you ever read some of you own comments back to yourself? Youl you appear to expect far higherr standards of others than you are willing to apply to yourself.

The problem is Vladimir, it appears to me you have little tolerance, repsect or time for any thoughts or ideas which do not match your own.

“Your conceptualizations of the Kingdom of God and its purposes are foreign to the Bible. You have transposed a sociological framework and imposed it onto the words of Scripture.

Vladimir

I will try to be a bit more gracious in response and veer away from rudenes ahich in itself often borders on mindlessness, I am sorry but I have to disagree. There are some of us wh wish to see God’s kingdon come and to work in order to usher in his fecind coming and indeed to speed its coming.

It is not a socioligal transposition at all If we are nit to get stuck i here on earth what is the point.

You appear to just be satisifed to critices from afar and not be willing to get stuck inm to make much of a difference.

W

britphil,

Permit me to be brief and to the point – even perhaps to the point of rudeness.

Your conceptualizations of the Kingdom of God and its purposes are foreign to the Bible. You have transposed a sociological framework and imposed it onto the words of Scripture.

The black, dreg lock loud mouth is no more a Jew than Hitler, it is a fascade, mode, style – nothing more. A mere pretentiousness the consequence and vanity of his own mind at work.

I’m sorry if my candor “yuks” you, but I for one have no tolerance for baseless, mindless rhetoric. The world is on the broad road to hell and histories still make men wise.

Vladimir

“I have the utmost respect for youth, but their opinions are not beyond censure and instruction.”

I couldn’t agree more Vladimir. Nobodies view is above censure least of all yours or mine!

What I object to is the equally “mindless” grouping of all young people under one category. Are all the contributors who post to this site the same ie “one amorphous mass” or are we people with diverse opinions? I take it your own four children are by definition excuded from being “youth”

Maybe they have all grown up now but, if so, when they were young people surely they were not the same, they were each unique individual people. Why the need for all this generalisation and labelling. It is cheap, lazy and too easy!

By the way, if the “younger generation” (yuk! the term, not the people!) are baseless and the We Generation are “airheaded bombasts”, (I would love to see your attempts to draw alongside and share the love of Christ with these people given your contempt for their views.it would be doubtless something to behold!) ,what was your genreation full of..let me guess, perfectly respectable wonderful people with no failings whatsoever I presume. No arrogant bombasts or mindless airheads to be seen for mile I around. Give me a break!

And with regard to the “baseless hope of a utopia on earth” have I missed something or did Jesus not teach his followers to pray “your kingdom come ON EARTH” aas it is in heaven.

There needs to be a balance struck to the coming Kingdom which there appears to be an over-emphasis on and the future Kingdom and an lmost completer lack of attention given to the present Kingdom which Jesus wants to usher in in the here and now.

Whereas there can be a danger of “baseless utopia” wde are called to a correct and serious-minded application of the Lord’s prayer. It is not just a case of “Your Kingdom come, your will be done”, full stop!!”

britphil,

The younger generation (Godless) mindset is on of baseless hope on a utopia on earth. A hippie love feast, if you will, where all coexist and truth is of no consequence.

The air headed bombast of the “Generation We” reeks of this bewitching hopefilled hopelessness.

They are completely in the dark – in their darkeness schrouded enlightment. That day will take such unaware.

I have the utmost respect for youth, but their opinions are not beyond censure and instruction.

Vladimir

I will leave this to the mix …take it as you will and remember we are all God’s creation http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10242008/watch3.html

“Ah Brit–Thank you for being more brave (or is it righteous) than I. Sadly, some of my own bigotry might not be expressed as viciously as that which you exposed but it resides there.”

Minnow I fully admit that we all have prejudices lurking deep within, i just felt they were being a bit too readily pandered too to escape comment.

Vladimir

I will attempt to answer your post but you will have to forgive my attempt as I do struggle to understand what on earth you are going on about some of the time.

“Your reaction too, betrays your complacent wishful thinking that has been perturbed by my dose of reality.”

Trust me Vladimir no-one appreciates social realism more than I do, but I wasn’t the only one who thought your comments were very inappropriate.

“The Black (I didn’t say negro, or use the word “boy”) has lost his moorings and now is Jewish” ..

Is he not entitled to embrace a more Jewish mindset if he wishes or does he need permission?

As for fiddling while Rome burns, maybe that is more your territory. How willing are you to get your ands dirty and engage with “the younger generation” a horribly patronising phrase if ever there was one than to joyfully condemn them to oblivion from afar.

“What are you going to do when the Prince of Peace exhibits the wrath of the Lamb of God?”

I’ll be merely thankful that come that day, such activity will be left to him and not to either of us. You appear to me to be looking forward to it with too much glee and you may be in for a shock or two come that day!

I also firmly believe that “judgement will begin with the household of faith” and I guess part of that will be based on Jesus’ teaching regarding the Sheep and the Goats. Who are the ones he wants nothing to do with eternally ? Those who have seen, judged from afar, but done absolutely nothing in response.

Perhaps the more complacent approach may well be yours Vladimir.

With the nation focused on the November elections, we thought a post on politics might be appropriate. The point of this article is not that we should abstain from any participation in the political process, but rather that we must keep our priorities straight as Christians. After all, the gospel, not politics, is the only true solution to our nation’s moral crisis.

We can’t protect or expand the cause of Christ by human political and social activism, no matter how great or sincere the efforts. Ours is a spiritual battle waged against worldly ideologies and dogmas arrayed against God, and we achieve victory over them only with the weapon of Scripture. The apostle Paul writes: “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ” (2 Cor. 10:3-5).

We must reject all that is ungodly and false and never compromise God’s standards of righteousness. We can do that in part by desiring the improvement of society’s moral standards and by approving of measures that would conform government more toward righteousness. We do grieve over the rampant indecency, vulgarity, lack of courtesy and respect for others, deceitfulness, self-indulgent materialism, and violence that is corroding society. But in our efforts to support what is good and wholesome, reject what is evil and corrupt, and make a profoundly positive impact on our culture, we must use God’s methods and maintain scriptural priorities.

God is not calling us to wage a culture war that would seek to transform our countries into “Christian nations.” To devote all, or even most, of our time, energy, money, and strategy to putting a facade of morality on the world or over our governmental and political institutions is to badly misunderstand our roles as Christians in a spiritually lost world.

God has above all else called the church to bring sinful people to salvation through Jesus Christ. Even as the apostle Paul described his mission to unbelievers, so it is the primary task of all Christians to reach out to the lost “to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me [Christ]” (Acts 26:18; cf. Ex. 19:6; 1 Pet. 2:5, 9).

If we do not evangelize the lost and make disciples of new converts, nothing else we do for people–no matter how beneficial it seems–is of any eternal consequence. Whether a person is an atheist or a theist, a criminal or a model citizen, sexually promiscuous and perverse or strictly moral and virtuous, a greedy materialist or a gracious philanthropist–if he does not have a saving relationship to Christ, he is going to hell. It makes no difference if an unsaved person is for or against abortion, a political liberal or a conservative, a prostitute or a police officer, he will spend eternity apart from God unless he repents and believes the gospel.

When the church takes a stance that emphasizes political activism and social moralizing, it always diverts energy and resources away from evangelization. Such an antagonistic position toward the established secular culture invariably leads believers to feel hostile not only to unsaved government leaders with whom they disagree, but also antagonistic toward the unsaved residents of that culture–neighbors and fellow citizens they ought to love, pray for, and share the gospel with. To me it is unthinkable that we become enemies of the very people we seek to win to Christ, our potential brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Author John Seel pens words that apply in principle to Christians everywhere and summarize well the believer’s perspective on political involvement:

A politicized faith not only blurs our priorities, but weakens our loyalties. Our primary citizenship is not on earth but in heaven. … Though few evangelicals would deny this truth in theory, the language of our spiritual citizenship frequently gets wrapped in the red, white and blue. Rather than acting as resident aliens of a heavenly kingdom, too often we sound [and act] like resident apologists for a Christian America. … Unless we reject the false reliance on the illusion of Christian America, evangelicalism will continue to distort the gospel and thwart a genuine biblical identity…..

American evangelicalism is now covered by layers and layers of historically shaped attitudes that obscure our original biblical core. (The Evangelical Pulpit [Grand Rapids: Baker, 1993], 106-7)

By means of faithful preaching and godly living, believers are to be the conscience of whatever nation they reside in. You can confront the culture not with the political and social activism of man’s wisdom, but with the spiritual power of God’s Word. Using temporal methods to promote legislative and judicial change, and resorting to external efforts of lobbying and intimidation to achieve some sort of “Christian morality” in society is not our calling–and has no eternal value. Only the gospel rescues sinners from sin, death, and hell.