"Generation We" – The New America Poised for Leadership?
I am quite disturbed by this video. Not simply because of its obvious liberal appeal to emotions but because of its misguided glorification and present appeal to an unprepared coming leadership.
Let me explain through a few observation:
Could some one tell me how on earth that these people are already “poised to lead”? This is obviously about a young generation. In 2016 they will be of voting age. I actually had to look up “poised” in the dictionary because I thought that I had been using it wrong for years. Here is what it said, “marked by balance or equilibrium; absolutely ready.” Say what? Excuse me but can I ask what is in your pipe? 
I would really like to know what is this generation’s definition of wisdom is. To whom can we credit for their “poising”? Are they born “poised”?
Why aren’t these kids asking for mentors rather than making an implied claim that they should be the mentors of everyone else? I would rather the video have these kids saying “Could someone please educate me. We need mentors, guides, and fathers and mothers. We don’t think that Hollywood academy is the best mentorship program.
This whole ad is, in my opinion, a good example of an argumentum ad populum. (Hey, I just wrote about that last night). We should listen to (heel) to the ideas of this generation under 18? I am glad that no one, much less a whole country, bowed to my ideals at 16. God help us if they did.
Will these people be looking back in thirty years with red faces because they thought they had everything figured out, but now that they have lived a few years they can see that there are bigger issues?
Besides all this, I seriously doubt that this is representative of the millennial generation. If they are truly concerned about these things to the neglect of others, I am sure that some other group is behind it (you define the group). It seems very manipulative.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that these are not important issues, or that any voice is irrelevant, but I promise you that you won’t find the little karate girl talking about this stuff without mass indoctrination. And . . . she does not really care right now even with the indoctrination.
Anyone of these children worried about the breakdown of the family, the divorce rate, declining morals, relativism, chemical dependency, or the 115,000 children that are being killed in their mother’s womb every day? If they were, I did not catch that. If they are not, please make this video go away.
Am I missing something or am I just in a right wing mood, suffering from my own adolescent indoctrination?
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Del on 24 Oct 2008 at 6:09 pm #
I thought it all sounded very exciting until the last third of the video where they decided to pick my pocket and give everyone “free” health care and education. I’m very concerned about this upcoming generation if this video represents their thinking. I don’t believe it does. The youth I talk to (I work with college age at a very conservative church) are for smaller government in general. This would include ending big government republican programs like war and democrat big government programs like welfare. I believe their attitude is more in line with “do unto others”. They are against going to war as a way to solve social problems and they are for helping others, directly and with their own money.
JohnFOM on 24 Oct 2008 at 8:08 pm #
Del
I agree with you on the ’smaller government’ thing. I’d go so far as to say that many of the ‘kids’ I meet lean towards a sort of an apathetic anarchism. “Yeah there’s government, but they suck so we’ll just ignore them and hopefully they’ll wipe each other out or go away”. They tend to have a low regard for the governmental ‘one size fits all’ policies, which actually means they end up not fitting anyone properly.
One thing the video does seem to get right, before it goes off on the ‘lets fix it all’ pipedream, is the pessimistic view of where the world is headed. Most of the younguns I see don’t have that ‘change the world’ response to it all though. They seem to work within the idea that you can’t change anything so all thats left is to conform to the ‘decline’ they see or to ignore the system they see as creating the decline and try to find some way of forming paralell societies (echoes of the communes of the 60s?).
Michael
I don’t find the vid that disturbing. It’s a bit of fluff. Over the top, ‘we can do it’ mantra. Hyperbole.
What I do find disturbing, and sorry about this, is the implication in your post that relativism, and divorce rates are bigger issues than decreasing life expectancy and relative poverty (mentioned in the vid). Are you serious??? Important issues, absolutely, but bigger?
Or have i made an unexpected and unintended link between
“Will these people be looking back in thirty years with red faces because they thought they had everything figured out, but now that they have lived a few years they can see that there are bigger issues?”
and
“Anyone of these children worried about the breakdown of the family, the divorce rate, declining morals, relativism, chemical dependency, or the 115,000 children that are being killed in their mother’s womb every day?”
C Michael Patton on 24 Oct 2008 at 8:58 pm #
John, I don’t think you have made an unfair connection. I do believe that ones beliefs and righteousness is more important than their personal life expectancy. Relativism and the decay of family values (the foundation to society) are bigger issues than material poverty and physical death because they are the stench of spiritual poverty and spiritual death.
However, having said that, I really don’t expect anyone outside a Christian worldview to take such a prioritized stand, but I would say that even in secular politics and society that one can recognize the utter handicap that is produced by relativism and family decay. They may not formulate their opinions spiritually, but the principles can be seen nontheless.
Susan on 24 Oct 2008 at 11:25 pm #
As to ‘life expectancy’ that sounds a little too prophetic to me. How do they know that their generation will live fewer years. That sounds like typical gloom-and-doom thinking which those who don’t know the Creator of the universe are prone to succumb to. God has all of our days numbered.
This is essentially fear-based rhetoric.
minnowspeaks on 25 Oct 2008 at 1:26 am #
Sadly, while the majority of “generation WE” are apathetic, pessimistic, uninvolved, immediate gratification and personal pleasure oriented, those who are being swallowed by the philosophies spewed in this video will be “in control” of their generation’s destiny unless a God-filled people rises up to meet the challenge of issues like world hunger, poverty, environmental distruction, corporate greed, war,… So far, however, most of the Church has behaved like an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand.
ScottL on 25 Oct 2008 at 6:30 am #
CMP -
Great thoughts and questions. No doubt that someone is behind this with an agenda, maybe, for starters, an agenda concerning the election in a week and a half. Don’t know. I will check out their website, see what’s going on there. (www.gen-we.org)
I think this is what is wrong with many young people today, and I have been here myself. We think we know all the ins and outs of issues, what is good, what is wrong, that we have thoroughly developed opinions. But we really don’t have much of an idea, and many of our comments are emotionally controlled rather than by wisdom. Funny how each generation thinks they are smarter and better than the previous. Sure, we might have a lot of knowledge currently compared to previous generations, but that does not always equal wisdom, or how to apply that knowledge.
No doubt, as you stated, even the voices of young kids are relevant. I really want to hear people’s hearts and thoughts. But we must remember they are only part of the whole.
In all, this video is par excellence in regards to communicating the America of today.
ScottL on 25 Oct 2008 at 6:40 am #
Interestingly, I was just browsing the comments for this video on YouTube and found this question:
Can you be “better educated”, if “the education system is” weakening?
Samson on 25 Oct 2008 at 9:10 am #
my favorite part was when they said that
“We need to show the world that we are not arrogant and greedy. So, to prove it we’re going to spend 10 billion dollars to fix the world because only ‘we’ as americans have the power to change human history.”
Typical postmodern logic of redefining words.
Vladimir on 25 Oct 2008 at 9:37 am #
The lost generation – out in space. I have four kids – three in College and one next year will be. All are extremely bright and Christian. They don’t think like this either.
The black dreg lock Jewish loud mouth. I thought Hebrew was read from right to left? Preditor image! Too many kung foo movies.
The Ice Princess! Geee. Give me a break. Sophistication and arrogant selfcenteredness.
“We” is a blurring of individual moral responsiblity and placing the burden on a laiz a fare corporate individualism – socially faceless, morally accountable only to nature and one’s own self driven ideology.
Vladimir
Susan on 25 Oct 2008 at 9:41 am #
Minnospeaks, true, we need to be that kind of salt and light, but along with those acts of help and rescue we need to boldly share the Gospel which holds the true power of transformation….. of individuals and ultimately culture. Otherwise our efforts to aid reform will be temporary at best. Maybe we need to focus on raising up a “God-filled people” who are willing and able to share the truth about Jesus.
Vladimir on 25 Oct 2008 at 9:53 am #
This is a worldly perspective. Their “dog-eat-dog” world view is masked in a conglomerate machination of concern for the play pen and sandbox. No cats and dogs allowed – pleeeeeaaaaasssseeeeee will ya!
Vladimir
Vladimir on 25 Oct 2008 at 10:08 am #
This is why Obama can mislead the gullible and naive into thinking a Utopia is possible. Ah, headless youth! Michael is right. Who is the mentor.
Life-expectancy. It depends on where you live. If your black and live in the ghetto in America, you might not see 18 years. Probably not. If you live in early post soviet Russia, male life expectancy was about 60 years with 30% of the population being chronic alcoholics.
If your a Christian and think the world is going to get better, read the Bible (it’s of a contrary view).
There are still TWO kingdoms.
Valdimir
Kirk on 25 Oct 2008 at 12:51 pm #
Speaking a gen X-er, the generation everyone loves to skip, I for one am glad that the Baby Boom Age will be over. The self-indulgence and humanism and secularism of this generation really does gripe me. I don’t know if the millinials will be any different. They probably will if you see the pattern of generations past.
I just wish Gen-X would raise it’s head and give a voice… I guess I’m feeling left out and unheard…
GoldCityDance on 25 Oct 2008 at 2:41 pm #
So, according to the introduction in the video, Generation WE are supposed to be “less politically partisan” than Baby Boomers.
However, later on in the video, the author of the book Eric Greenberg claims that “these kids identify themselves as strongly progressive, and are fed up with partisan politics, they’re socially tolerant, environmentally conscious and peace-loving… and most importantly, they’re politically engaged.” That’s a long list of descriptions, so allow me to dissect each phrase here:
1. strongly progressive
I take it that Mr Greenberg meant “strongly liberal”. How else can you interpret the word “progressive” when used in a political context?
2. socially tolerant
There are many important social issues today, but only a subset of those are controversial enough where the use of the word “tolerance” makes sense (e.g. poverty is a significant issue but can you imagine someone being intolerant towards the poor?). So I would guess Mr Greenberg to mean that Gen WE are tolerant towards issues such as abortion rights, gay rights, gay marriage, capital punishment, euthanasia.
3. environmentally conscious
Mr Greenberg is saying that Gen WE is more green than the previous generations. This is probably true because in the last few decades, discoveries in science have indeed taught us a lot about pollution, species extinction and the need for sustainable resource management. This one was simple to interpret but I’d like to note that an emphasis on environmentalism is traditionally a left-wing issue.
4. peace-loving
First off, Mr Greenberg are you suggesting that Baby Boomers and all other generations that came before Gen WE are peace-hating or worse yet, aggressive warmongers? (I’m sure the hippie generation feel insulted) Name one generation that isn’t peace-loving! I believe the term that Mr Greenberg is looking for… is “anti-war”?
5. fed up with partisan politics
Normally, one would interpret this phrase to mean that Gen WE is bipartisan or politically independent.
However, if what Mr Greenberg said is true about Gen WE, this generation is defined as strongly liberal, pro-abortion rights, pro-gay rights, pro-gay marriage, pro-euthanasia (socially tolerant), environmentally conscious and anti-war. Almost all of these stances are traditionally liberal and can be extremely partisan. So I think more logical, alternative interpretation of this phrase goes like this: “Gen WE are fed up with Bush’s and the Republicans’ strongly partisan right-wing policies for the past 8 years and are ready to vote for CHANGE in this election”.
6. politically engaged
Are Gen WE more likely to vote? I’m sure Mr Greenberg clearly hopes so because he thinks they’re STRONGLY “progressive” and will vote that way. I think it’s still too early to be definite on this one… we’ll find out in the next few elections if he’s right.
A personal message to Mr Eric Greenberg:
If you genuinely like the fact that Gen WE are truly becoming more independent politically, PLEASE don’t try to sway them to the left by making videos like this one. You are contributing to the problem of partisan politics by offering a one-sided view of politics. Why not make a truly bipartisan video by highlighting issues both parties can agree on?
C Michael Patton on 25 Oct 2008 at 4:00 pm #
Gold,
Wow! That was much better than what I said.
Everyone, skip my commentary and read Gold’s!
Thanks
Terry on 25 Oct 2008 at 4:42 pm #
I may be mistaken but what I see is a statement that is we want a change to something that makes sense ..
Yea what about the hippies ..they didn’t want war but it was the Govt. that made a draft to fight what was it now ?
Oh and dropping bombs on innocent people in Japan after they had surrendered , what was that? Ok Iraq ..hummwhat did they do? Afghanistan ? Who next ? These kids may be looking for a mentor but believe they cant find one from their own ..any wonder based on history …have a look at what is happening and read the results of what is happening from somewhere else on the planet ….Maybe its not a utopia but it is at least addressing issues that are directed in the direction of real people and not corporations …
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8711
Sara on 25 Oct 2008 at 6:55 pm #
As someone who is on the border between the Gen Xers/Mill., who is about to go into church leadership, and who works with college students, let me say:
1. Calm down. Seriously. We’re not bringing the end of the world with us (only Jesus can do that:).
2. We’re begging for mentors. Real mentors. Few respond to our requests with the seriousness we’re looking for.
3. The leaders coming up are amazing. I see them at work in campus groups and am simply awestruck. The leadership won’t look like it did in the past few generations, but leadership always changes as the generations come in and out. Instead of criticizing, look and see how passionately they’re responding to the problems around them. God has called them, and they’re answering. Their answer just may not look like your answer.
More than anything, they want the divisions in the churches to end. They want to work with their Christian partners from different theological stances, but are slapped away when they’re doctrinal creeds/political stances don’t agree with what the other side thinks. They want a united church that is able to seriously discuss AND RESPOND to these issues as one, loving, whole community.
GoldCityDance on 25 Oct 2008 at 9:22 pm #
Thanks Michael, for your “endorsement”.
Terry, from what I’ve learnt in WW2 history, even when the second bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, the Japanese authorities (Emperor Hirohito and the powerful War council) were still uncertain about surrendering. They were debating the conditions for surrender. Even after the second detonation, it took the Japanese six days to surrender. Yes, many innocent Japanese civilians died in those bombings and it’s debatable whether the decision to target cities with significant civilian populations was a wise one (or even legal), but I think it’s downright misleading to suggest that the U.S. government still went ahead to bomb the Japanese AFTER they have surrendered.
As for the invasion of Afghanistan, how else do you expect the U.S. to respond after the 9/11 attacks? The Taliban did not want to hand over Osama bin laden. Please tell me who else and how else should justice be brought to the 9/11 perpetrators?
Lisa R on 25 Oct 2008 at 10:02 pm #
What struck me in the video’s message is concern for the conditions that these youth find themselves living in, circumstances inherited that will be quite the challenge to negotiate success and a secure future in. The word decline was repeated. We’ve inherited a mess, is what they seem to be saying.
But what is concerning I think, and I believe this is what Michael was getting to, is that the root cause of decline has been ignored. It reminds me of this quote by Dwight D. Eisenhower,
“A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both”.
Principles have been tossed aside in pursuit of life, liberty, happiness, a collective hedonism if you will. That’s why we have a mess. I doubt the answer is for the church to jump on the band wagon of environmental clean-up and peace initiatives, the latter ultimately promoting a further moral breakdown through increased tolerance of agnostism and pluralism.
I agree with Vladimir, if we think its going to get better, we have not really read our bibles.
Cadis on 25 Oct 2008 at 10:41 pm #
I see an advertisement.
“I’d like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony
I’d like to buy the world a coke and keep it company”
same thing, same meaning.
Let’s fill thier heads with song and propaganda , whip them up and point them in the direction of the polls.
The same type of stuff is used to get youth to enlist in the service. I have nothing against kids joining up but some of the ad campaigns…man!
With the right ad and song you can get an 18 yr old to do just about anything
Alden on 26 Oct 2008 at 1:10 am #
This is all very interesting, and I was struck by a couple of things. First, was this script written by a “gen-we” person? Certainly most of the kids in the video has this scripted for them.
2nd, as someone has already mentioned, this seemed to be a flashback of the 60’s (I was there, and I remember it…), except that “dropping out” was not mentioned in the video. This is quite interesting, because …
3rd, “gen-we” in America has a 25% high school drop out rate; I read just this week that this generation is less likely to complete high school than there parents. And they expect to be “poised” to lead? I haven’t seen too many poised drop-outs.
This appears to be an attempt to “frame” a generation, rather than describe it.
Terry on 26 Oct 2008 at 7:00 am #
Hi GOLDCITYDANCE OK for your last item …If you check the FBI web site you will find that they [fbi] have not formally charged bin ladin with those crimes …I believe that the Taliban told the USA that they would turn over bin ladin to them once they gave them the evidence that he actually perputated the crime …End of that story or is it ….as for WW2 and the Surrender well we do have diffrent accounts of history …Much can be rewritten as to what really happened ….Some so unbelivable and yet so belived as to boggle the mind …Like Columbus actually discovered America …Yet the majority of Americans actually celiberate this fallacy …Kind of like Santa isn’t it ….
this is one link to look at http://tinyurl.com/98n73 It would be very good too to have a look at the Japan site concerning those unnecessary bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. – Url.: http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2125.html
A lot more information you’ll find here, including what Oppenheimer according to the BBC said, when the nuclear ghost was released from the lamp:
“Asked for his first thought after the test, top scientist J Robert Oppenheimer quoted from his favourite Hindu poem, The Bhagavad-Gita: “I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.”
Oppenheimer and other world-leading scientists who had taken part in the top-secret test knew that from that moment on, the world had changed forever.”
The inhuman rest is at Url.: http://tinyurl.com/5eutla
OK
minnowspeaks on 26 Oct 2008 at 7:02 am #
WOW!
And who has been raising this generation we (including me) are so willing to criticise?
My 20 year old just biked 1400 miles to Kansas City so he could work two jobs and maybe save up enough to go to the International House of Prayer. (The school of ministry in our own church failed to mentor him so he went looking else where). My almost 19 year old gave up his senior year of high school to be home schooled. The system failed to see that some kids don’t learn as well when 85% of the classroom is spent teaching verbal-linguistic learners. He chose home school so he could focus on learning things that were going to make a difference in his life. He plans to go into film. My 16 year old is navigating the halls of public education trying to let confused kids know that God loves them even if the hate spewing religious groups who wave their Bibles in the air and tell them they are going to hell don’t. My 13 year old daughter already knows she’s going to be a missionary to Africa. These kids exist all over the place but they do need mentors who aren’t afraid to help them wrestle with tough questions not just hand them pat answers with the attitude that it was good enough for my generation it ought to be good enough for yours.
The dark may be getting darker but the light is also getting brighter. Let’s do a little redefining–
Strongly Progressive–Let’s hear it for creative problem solving, hands and feet in the trenches ready to work, one foot in front of the other and moving forward rather than all the finger pointing and blowing in the wind.
Socially Tolerant–Let’s remember the plank in our own eyes and the wild fashion statements we’ve come up with over the years, Let’s remember that we are not God nor are we anyone else’s Holy Spirit and see how much grace we can extend.
Environmentally Conscious–I believe God gave us stewardship over the earth maybe we should ask Him how green we should become.
Peace Loving–Here I think this generation needs as many leassons as any generation before it. Violence one to another is every bit as harmful as war. Gang wars, child abuse, date rape, it all begins by thinking it’s okay to demean, devalue, “tease”, dis–and we laugh, or wink, or stand silent, or look away. Our children need to be challenged to love in the every day.
Fed up with Partisan Politics–I hope it’s true and I hope the response is to become engaged in God-inspired change. And before you come at me with Bible predictions may I remind you that my Bible says no man will know, and my Bible teaches us to pray “Your will be done on earth…” and my Bible says Go–make disciples–heal the sick–feed the starving–GO!
A very wise woman once told be to be careful–the minute youstart thinking “Oh they’re old enough. They don’t need me as much any more” is when they need you the most. The We-Generation needs parents, fathers, mentors, Godly witnesses. Game-on!
Saint and Sinner on 26 Oct 2008 at 8:47 pm #
What these kids need is not to be put in leadership positions.
What they need is deprogramming from all their days in the leftist gulag…ehem!…I meant, the public school system.
Well, when they turn voting age, it might be time to flee to New Zealand.
From The Balcony on 26 Oct 2008 at 10:47 pm #
Sara – loved your comment.
Minnow – be careful of IHOP – I used to live in KC…..there’s history there…..
Ed Eubanks on 26 Oct 2008 at 11:35 pm #
In the main post, you said:
You’ve misrepresented the case. They said that in 2016 the youngest members of the generation will be of voting age– which means that more than half (of a 20-year generation) are already 18-30. These ARE young folks who, as you said, my be red-faced in 10-15 years. But people in this age range are now, and will increasingly be over the next 8-10 years, well-positioned for prominence in leadership.
In response to GoldCityDance (#14):
There is a difference, at least by way of degree. Progressive is the true opposite of conservative. Someone is a conservative because they have something they wish to conserve (consider them the “Haves”) while someone is progressive who wishes to change their current circumstances (thus, the “Have-Nots”).
Actually, yes– I think that many self-described conservatives are intolerant toward the poor. The surprisingly common attitude of, “they’re poor because they’re lazy” or other similar quips (most of which are false) strike me as words of intolerance.
That’s probably true– but should those of us who consider ourselves “right-wing” feel good about that fact? Especially Christians? The stewardship of God’s creation (of which, I admit, the perspective of “environmentalism” is sometimes an adulteration) ought not be something we consider to be liberal or left-wing.
Have you heard much of Senator McCain’s war rhetoric this campaign season? I would (probably) stop short of calling him a warmonger, but his (nor President Bush’s) words on the wars in Iraq and Afganistan hardly come across as peace-loving. This isn’t an either-or; just because someone isn’t all the way down one end of the spectrum (at “warmonger”) doesn’t make them peace-loving, and just because someone emphasizes peace doesn’t make them anti-war.
This fact (regarding Bush/Republican policies) is probably true– but that doesn’t make the overall statement less true. Yes, there are exceptions listed here of members of this generation who don’t fit. I would call that a classic case of “the exception proves the rule.” I know few– VERY few– people under 35 who are uniformly conservative in their political views, and all of the ones I do know are so because their convictions have been shaped by a particular segment of Christianity.
You may be right on this one, but at least compared to other recent generations all signs are pointing to their assessments being right. When I was in college 15 years ago, I was astounded (and appalled) at the widespread apathy to the political process: it seemed to me that the only ones who cared were conservative Christians. These days there is a general movement of much more activity across the board. It may be motivated simply by disgust for Bush policy– but it is motivated.
To sum up: why are we afraid to admit that the generations coming up behind us are more liberal/progressive than we are/were? Why do we feel so threatened by the possibility that the students we know– who aren’t as liberal or dissatisfied with the status quo– are the exceptions, not the rule? Is it because we fear the judgment the comes with that: a suggestion, if not accusation, that our views and perspectives weren’t perfect? Is it because we fear an existence where we (or those who think just like us) aren’t in control?
I think we must be careful not to put too much stock in mankind’s ability to change or improve circumstances in the face of depravity, through political means or otherwise.
britphil on 27 Oct 2008 at 4:48 am #
“The black dreg lock Jewish loud mouth. I thought Hebrew was read from right to left? Preditor image! Too many kung foo movies.!
“All are extremely bright and Christian. They don’t think like this either.”
Vladimir.
This statement is a disgrace to the Christ you allegedly claim to follow and love so deraly . (though haveing read that last staement I remain to be convinced!) Unlike your children I am not syre you are intelligent enough to work out that during the ministry of Jesus, he too was something of a Jewish loudmouth. Do you care to hurl that insult at him! …
Well done for managing to be both racist and anti-semitic in one swift sentence. It takes quite some doping. It wasn’t just the words, it was the tone that was just as offensive. and I have to say Michael I would have hoped a moderator would have come on and said something. To let him get away with it scot free is a disgrace.
This whole thread and what I have been observed over the last fortnight in the US elections race makes me seriously think that the undertones to most of this on the Republican side is that theysimply don’t want a black President in the White House.
britphil on 27 Oct 2008 at 4:59 am #
“The black dreg lock Jewish loud mouth. I thought Hebrew was read from right to left? Preditor image! Too many kung foo movies.!
“All are extremely bright and Christian. They don’t think like this either.”
Vladimir.
This statement is a disgrace to the Christ you allegedly claim to follow and love so deraly . (though haveing read that last staement I remain to be convinced!) Unlike your children I am not syre you are intelligent enough to work out that during the ministry of Jesus, he too was something of a Jewish loudmouth. Do you care to hurl that insult at him! …
Well done for managing to be both racist and anti-semitic in one swift sentence. It takes quite some doping. It wasn’t just the words, it was the tone that was just as offensive. and I have to say Michael I would have hoped a moderator would have come on and said something. To let him get away with it scot free is a disgrace.
This whole thread and what I have been observed over the last fortnight in the US elections race makes me seriously think that the undertones to most of this on the Republican side is that theysimply don’t want a black President in the White House.
britphil on 27 Oct 2008 at 5:06 am #
The full text should have read like this.
“The black dreg lock Jewish loud mouth. I thought Hebrew was read from right to left? Preditor image! Too many kung foo movies.!
“All are extremely bright and Christian. They don’t think like this either.”
Vladimir.
This statement is a disgrace to the Christ you allegedly claim to follow and love so dearly . (though haveing read that last statement I remain to be convinced!) Unlike your “extremely bright” children I am not sure you are intelligent enough to work out that during the ministry of Jesus, he too was something of a Jewish loudmouth. Do you care to hurl that insult at him! …
Well done for managing to be both racist and anti-semitic in one swift sentence. It takes quite some doing, even by your standards. It wasn’t just the words, it was the tone that was just as offensive. and I have to say Michael I would have hoped a moderator would have come on and said something. To let him get away with it scot free is a disgrace.
This whole thread and what I have been observed over the last fortnight in the US elections race makes me seriously think that the undertones to most of this on the Republican side is that they simply don’t want a black President in the White House.
Also, I am convinced that this racist/anti-semitic stuff is learnt behaviour. If kids see their parents using language like this, then why shouldn’t they do the same. It is my firm belief that such bigotry (and let’s stop pussyfooting around and name it for what it unashamedly is) is rooted deep within families and is passed on from generation to generation.
If your children truly are as extremely bright as you claim, then it will hopefully be evidenced by them challenging the behaviour you adopt and the language you use towards those whose greatest crime consists of them being a different race or religion to yourself.
There are non-Christians, both atheist and agnostic who post to this site, and if I was one of them and took one look at that comment, it would reinforce everything that I thought was wrong about Christianity, and would be a superb deterrent to me ever wishing to become one.
Terry on 27 Oct 2008 at 6:17 am #
well stated britphil ….
britphil on 27 Oct 2008 at 8:47 am #
Ed Eubanks
“That’s probably true– but should those of us who consider ourselves “right-wing” feel good about that fact? Especially Christians?”
Ed, I am assuming that (although forgive me if I am wrong), that your leanings are Republican. I wish to say that if all Republicans were like you, and if the Republican party were to take your comments seriously on board, then it could be a far better, infinitely more “Christian” party, and maybe even one I may consider voting for! That’s what many Republicans simply don’t get….that out there in Floaterville USA are many. many votes to be won if people could be convinced that in doing so they aren’t going to vote for a crazy party made up with more than it’s fair share of cranks and crazies who want to make the USA and the world a much worse and far less safe place to live in.
“Actually, yes– I think that many self-described conservatives are intolerant toward the poor. The surprisingly common attitude of, “they’re poor because they’re lazy” or other similar quips (most of which are false) strike me as words of intolerance.”
Ed you are so right. However, it is not just intolerant, it’s probably worse in that very many are actually indifferent to the plight of the poor and marginalised, which is just as bad. And as you say, many want to “conserve” the situation and hate the very thought of the poor aspiring to be “less poor”, hence the comments on this site seeking to blame the poor in a big way for the current economic predicament the USA finds itself in.
“This one was simple to interpret but I’d like to note that an emphasis on environmentalism is traditionally a left-wing issue.”
If this is so, then why should it be? Is not much of what reasonable environmental supporters advocate merely equate to responsible stewardship of the earth’s recources. It is a really lazy cop-out when we evangelicals, as we have done historically, give stewardship nice lip service but not much else besides.
“That’s probably true– but should those of us who consider ourselves “right-wing” feel good about that fact? Especially Christians? The stewardship of God’s creation (of which, I admit, the perspective of “environmentalism” is sometimes an adulteration) ought not be something we consider to be liberal or left-wing.”
Well said Ed.
“When I was in college 15 years ago, I was astounded (and appalled) at the widespread apathy to the political process: it seemed to me that the only ones who cared were conservative Christians. These days there is a general movement of much more activity across the board. It may be motivated simply by disgust for Bush policy– but it is motivated”
Give yourself a pat on the back Stateside, because this is where you are way ahead of us here in the UK, in that far more people in recent times have become actively engaged in the political/voting process, whereas counteless numbers have become disenfranchised/disengaged/disillusioned by the political process over here. My guess is that many Republicans are unhappy at this becuase many of those who have re-connected will be voting Democrat, but surely it is good for people overall to re-engage with the political process rather than just leave it to the Christian right. I think the Christian right are having real trouble coming to terms with this newly motivated electroate, hence their negative campaigning to try and de-rail things. Surely it is a good thing for all Americans, Christian or not to be re-engaging with the political process. I guess the one thing that sticks in the gut is that it took a Democrat, and more importantly, a black Democrat to re-envision many previously disenchanted American voters.
“Is it because we fear an existence where we (or those who think just like us) aren’t in control?”
Ed, this is so true! The almost paranoid fear of not being in control and of not being able to exercise control over others, or even worse, being controlled by others who do not share the same opinions has been almost tangible throughout this campaign. I may be wrong Ed, but I guess you are one of those Republicans (if that is what you are) who have been dismayed at the antics of some Republican activists on the campaign trail. Thank you for your balanced comments.
minnowspeaks on 27 Oct 2008 at 9:02 am #
Ah Brit–Thank you for being more brave (or is it righteous) than I. Sadly, some of my own bigotry might not be expressed as viciously as that which you exposed but it resides there. In fact at a prayer/worship session our college church had jointly with another Church across town (decidedly closer to my gray hair then their dred locks) and which I tend to crash on a regular basis. I found myself repenting of thinking myself better than my children and their friends. Ironically I also needed to repent of thinking myself better than my parents and their friends. In other words, my attitude as the “next” generation was that I had the answers to the questions my parents avoided asking. In turn my attitude toward the next generation was that they had a thing or two to learn because I still had a thing or two to “teach” them. Thankfully, they are prety tolerant of this grayhaired old lady and I am learning to walk a little more humbly.
minnowspeaks on 27 Oct 2008 at 9:06 am #
To clarify (not that it makes a difference in the over all point but it bugged me) the cross-town church was closer to my age group then the college age group and I drop in on our college Church on a regualr basis.
minnowspeaks on 27 Oct 2008 at 9:08 am #
@ Balcony–History in KC–history everywhere.
@ Ed Eubanks–your last paragraph–a resounding Yes! The baby boomers used to be hippies after all. Humm…
Vladimir on 27 Oct 2008 at 9:35 am #
britphil,
It was a cold rainy night, the highway patrol officer walk past the split open automobile in the ditch toward an almost lifeless mass of once teenage beauty. Her constant whimper was “I want to go home. I want my mommy.”
The shallowness of this “Generation We” is much like the tragic scence above. The Black (I didn’t say negro, or use the word “boy”) has lost his moorings and now is Jewish and prats and portrays an image of impregnable invincibleness.
Like Nero, are you going to play the fiddle while Rome burns?
не вроде меня!
Your reaction too, betrays your complacent wishful thinking that has been perturbed by my dose of reality.
What are you going to do when the Prince of Peace exhibits the wrath of the Lamb of God?
Vladimir
John MacArthur (in absentia) on 27 Oct 2008 at 9:39 am #
With the nation focused on the November elections, we thought a post on politics might be appropriate. The point of this article is not that we should abstain from any participation in the political process, but rather that we must keep our priorities straight as Christians. After all, the gospel, not politics, is the only true solution to our nation’s moral crisis.
We can’t protect or expand the cause of Christ by human political and social activism, no matter how great or sincere the efforts. Ours is a spiritual battle waged against worldly ideologies and dogmas arrayed against God, and we achieve victory over them only with the weapon of Scripture. The apostle Paul writes: “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ” (2 Cor. 10:3-5).
We must reject all that is ungodly and false and never compromise God’s standards of righteousness. We can do that in part by desiring the improvement of society’s moral standards and by approving of measures that would conform government more toward righteousness. We do grieve over the rampant indecency, vulgarity, lack of courtesy and respect for others, deceitfulness, self-indulgent materialism, and violence that is corroding society. But in our efforts to support what is good and wholesome, reject what is evil and corrupt, and make a profoundly positive impact on our culture, we must use God’s methods and maintain scriptural priorities.
God is not calling us to wage a culture war that would seek to transform our countries into “Christian nations.” To devote all, or even most, of our time, energy, money, and strategy to putting a facade of morality on the world or over our governmental and political institutions is to badly misunderstand our roles as Christians in a spiritually lost world.
God has above all else called the church to bring sinful people to salvation through Jesus Christ. Even as the apostle Paul described his mission to unbelievers, so it is the primary task of all Christians to reach out to the lost “to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me [Christ]” (Acts 26:18; cf. Ex. 19:6; 1 Pet. 2:5, 9).
If we do not evangelize the lost and make disciples of new converts, nothing else we do for people–no matter how beneficial it seems–is of any eternal consequence. Whether a person is an atheist or a theist, a criminal or a model citizen, sexually promiscuous and perverse or strictly moral and virtuous, a greedy materialist or a gracious philanthropist–if he does not have a saving relationship to Christ, he is going to hell. It makes no difference if an unsaved person is for or against abortion, a political liberal or a conservative, a prostitute or a police officer, he will spend eternity apart from God unless he repents and believes the gospel.
When the church takes a stance that emphasizes political activism and social moralizing, it always diverts energy and resources away from evangelization. Such an antagonistic position toward the established secular culture invariably leads believers to feel hostile not only to unsaved government leaders with whom they disagree, but also antagonistic toward the unsaved residents of that culture–neighbors and fellow citizens they ought to love, pray for, and share the gospel with. To me it is unthinkable that we become enemies of the very people we seek to win to Christ, our potential brothers and sisters in the Lord.
Author John Seel pens words that apply in principle to Christians everywhere and summarize well the believer’s perspective on political involvement:
A politicized faith not only blurs our priorities, but weakens our loyalties. Our primary citizenship is not on earth but in heaven. … Though few evangelicals would deny this truth in theory, the language of our spiritual citizenship frequently gets wrapped in the red, white and blue. Rather than acting as resident aliens of a heavenly kingdom, too often we sound [and act] like resident apologists for a Christian America. … Unless we reject the false reliance on the illusion of Christian America, evangelicalism will continue to distort the gospel and thwart a genuine biblical identity…..
American evangelicalism is now covered by layers and layers of historically shaped attitudes that obscure our original biblical core. (The Evangelical Pulpit [Grand Rapids: Baker, 1993], 106-7)
By means of faithful preaching and godly living, believers are to be the conscience of whatever nation they reside in. You can confront the culture not with the political and social activism of man’s wisdom, but with the spiritual power of God’s Word. Using temporal methods to promote legislative and judicial change, and resorting to external efforts of lobbying and intimidation to achieve some sort of “Christian morality” in society is not our calling–and has no eternal value. Only the gospel rescues sinners from sin, death, and hell.
britphil on 27 Oct 2008 at 10:31 am #
“Ah Brit–Thank you for being more brave (or is it righteous) than I. Sadly, some of my own bigotry might not be expressed as viciously as that which you exposed but it resides there.”
Minnow I fully admit that we all have prejudices lurking deep within, i just felt they were being a bit too readily pandered too to escape comment.
Vladimir
I will attempt to answer your post but you will have to forgive my attempt as I do struggle to understand what on earth you are going on about some of the time.
“Your reaction too, betrays your complacent wishful thinking that has been perturbed by my dose of reality.”
Trust me Vladimir no-one appreciates social realism more than I do, but I wasn’t the only one who thought your comments were very inappropriate.
“The Black (I didn’t say negro, or use the word “boy”) has lost his moorings and now is Jewish” ..
Is he not entitled to embrace a more Jewish mindset if he wishes or does he need permission?
As for fiddling while Rome burns, maybe that is more your territory. How willing are you to get your ands dirty and engage with “the younger generation” a horribly patronising phrase if ever there was one than to joyfully condemn them to oblivion from afar.
“What are you going to do when the Prince of Peace exhibits the wrath of the Lamb of God?”
I’ll be merely thankful that come that day, such activity will be left to him and not to either of us. You appear to me to be looking forward to it with too much glee and you may be in for a shock or two come that day!
I also firmly believe that “judgement will begin with the household of faith” and I guess part of that will be based on Jesus’ teaching regarding the Sheep and the Goats. Who are the ones he wants nothing to do with eternally ? Those who have seen, judged from afar, but done absolutely nothing in response.
Perhaps the more complacent approach may well be yours Vladimir.
Terry on 27 Oct 2008 at 1:31 pm #
I will leave this to the mix …take it as you will and remember we are all God’s creation http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10242008/watch3.html
Vladimir on 27 Oct 2008 at 2:10 pm #
britphil,
The younger generation (Godless) mindset is on of baseless hope on a utopia on earth. A hippie love feast, if you will, where all coexist and truth is of no consequence.
The air headed bombast of the “Generation We” reeks of this bewitching hopefilled hopelessness.
They are completely in the dark – in their darkeness schrouded enlightment. That day will take such unaware.
I have the utmost respect for youth, but their opinions are not beyond censure and instruction.
Vladimir
britphil on 28 Oct 2008 at 4:48 am #
“I have the utmost respect for youth, but their opinions are not beyond censure and instruction.”
I couldn’t agree more Vladimir. Nobodies view is above censure least of all yours or mine!
What I object to is the equally “mindless” grouping of all young people under one category. Are all the contributors who post to this site the same ie “one amorphous mass” or are we people with diverse opinions? I take it your own four children are by definition excuded from being “youth”
Maybe they have all grown up now but, if so, when they were young people surely they were not the same, they were each unique individual people. Why the need for all this generalisation and labelling. It is cheap, lazy and too easy!
By the way, if the “younger generation” (yuk! the term, not the people!) are baseless and the We Generation are “airheaded bombasts”, (I would love to see your attempts to draw alongside and share the love of Christ with these people given your contempt for their views.it would be doubtless something to behold!) ,what was your genreation full of..let me guess, perfectly respectable wonderful people with no failings whatsoever I presume. No arrogant bombasts or mindless airheads to be seen for mile I around. Give me a break!
And with regard to the “baseless hope of a utopia on earth” have I missed something or did Jesus not teach his followers to pray “your kingdom come ON EARTH” aas it is in heaven.
There needs to be a balance struck to the coming Kingdom which there appears to be an over-emphasis on and the future Kingdom and an lmost completer lack of attention given to the present Kingdom which Jesus wants to usher in in the here and now.
Whereas there can be a danger of “baseless utopia” wde are called to a correct and serious-minded application of the Lord’s prayer. It is not just a case of “Your Kingdom come, your will be done”, full stop!!”
Vladimir on 29 Oct 2008 at 9:14 am #
britphil,
Permit me to be brief and to the point – even perhaps to the point of rudeness.
Your conceptualizations of the Kingdom of God and its purposes are foreign to the Bible. You have transposed a sociological framework and imposed it onto the words of Scripture.
The black, dreg lock loud mouth is no more a Jew than Hitler, it is a fascade, mode, style – nothing more. A mere pretentiousness the consequence and vanity of his own mind at work.
I’m sorry if my candor “yuks” you, but I for one have no tolerance for baseless, mindless rhetoric. The world is on the broad road to hell and histories still make men wise.
Vladimir
britphil on 29 Oct 2008 at 10:23 am #
“Your conceptualizations of the Kingdom of God and its purposes are foreign to the Bible. You have transposed a sociological framework and imposed it onto the words of Scripture.
Vladimir
I will try to be a bit more gracious in response and veer away from rudenes ahich in itself often borders on mindlessness, I am sorry but I have to disagree. There are some of us wh wish to see God’s kingdon come and to work in order to usher in his fecind coming and indeed to speed its coming.
It is not a socioligal transposition at all If we are nit to get stuck i here on earth what is the point.
You appear to just be satisifed to critices from afar and not be willing to get stuck inm to make much of a difference.
W
britphil on 29 Oct 2008 at 10:30 am #
“Your conceptualizations of the Kingdom of God and its purposes are foreign to the Bible. You have transposed a sociological framework and imposed it onto the words of Scripture.
Hi Vladimir. I apologise for the previous message. It was sent before I had the chance to edit it. Here is how it should have read.
I will try to be a bit more gracious in response and veer away from rudeness which in itself often borders on mindlessness, I am sorry but I have to disagree. There are some of us who wish to see God’s kingdom come and to work in order to usher in his second coming and indeed to speed its arrival.
It is not a socioligal transposition at all. If we are n0t to get stuck in here on earth what is the point? What on earth are we here for? As a mere intellectual pursuit? Just to stand idly by on the sidelines and carp, criticise and moralise from afar? Let’ sface it we are all capable of doing that till the cows come home! You appear to just be satisifed to pass tired moralistic judgements from afar and not be willing to get stuck in to make much of a difference.
As for baseless mindless rhetoric, have you ever read some of you own comments back to yourself? Youl you appear to expect far higherr standards of others than you are willing to apply to yourself.
The problem is Vladimir, it appears to me you have little tolerance, repsect or time for any thoughts or ideas which do not match your own.
Ev on 29 Oct 2008 at 3:01 pm #
The sad thing is that I did not even need to watch the video to know what you are talking about. While I am involved in discipling teens these days, the other sad thing is, I still understand what you are saying. Yep, I know what you said is true! Unfortunately, many the high school graduating class of the last couple of years, having been indoctrinated into liberal mentalities and beliefs and really have no clue the damage thier vote in the election as well as in hot propositions on the ballot will have on American society.
I share the gospel with various young people on the streets regularly, and it is clear that they still dont know anything about anything, yet they can be “pumped” up by hype and fad beliefs and go with it, not knowing the impact it will have for others and their children (in a ‘big time’ negative way).
Vladimir on 29 Oct 2008 at 4:00 pm #
britphil,
The theological disparity, in fact a gulf, separates us on the point of departure of these issues. Permit me to elaborate on but a few.
The Kingdom of God is a vibrant, dynamic, spiritual reality that has already “broken into and is advancing” in this mundane realm. The Kingdom of God/Heaven(s) is in fact better termed Reign of God.
The advance of this Reign/Kingdom is God initiated, maintained and quickened (old term). It’s advance is not dependant on us per se, although we (i.e., the visible and invisible Church) are the instrumentality ofttimes which God has chosen to use in time and space to bring about HIS purposes.
The basic premise upon which I proceed is from an Augustinian/Calvinistic perspective and understanding. My conceptualization of the Kingdom of God is based on the writings and interpretations of Scripture by such authors as e.g., G. Vos and H. Ridderbos.
If you were to go back and read your too hasty and quick to the draw remarks I think you will find a strife laden individual who is more interested in hearing himself speak than one concerned with understanding the truth and living accordingly.
I would suggest that you sit back and take a few deep breathes before you find yourself reposting three or four posts when one carefully thought out and read over ONE will do. Rashness and recklessness are fruits of the flesh.
Vladimir