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Atheism
by C Michael PattonOctober 2nd, 2008
51 Comments
So, being bored, I made this out of another atheism poster:
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51 Comments
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This is awesome!
btw, the pic showed up in Google reader but it isn’t working here.??
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I agree… on both points! It is great and I can only see it on google.
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It showed up in Bloglines, but not visible here…
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without false dichotomies, there’d be no cotomies at all!
whoot!!
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So is this an actual atheist’s attempt to be clever gone awry, or is it someone’s deconstructive jab at atheism? It would be amusing either way, but I would like to see the source.
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I made it.
It was in response to another one like it belittling Christianity.
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Classic!
Is there a link to the Christianity one?
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That has got to be the longest run-on sentence I’ve ever read. It’s a bad caricature of atheists, but I’m more offended by the poor grasp of sentence structure.
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You were on the right track right up until “atheism.”
No atheist would argue that the universe is without order. That’s absurd. Everything after the word “purpose” is pretty much nonsense, from the standpoints of both grammar and logic.
The picture is nice though.
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Matt, thanks for the imput, but you did not really say anything substantial against the arguement. However, I did not think that an atheist would read this and say, “Hey, he is right!”
As for the grammer, folks, this is part of the “poster message” genre. Yes, it is a run on, but intentianlly so since it is in breathless conversational writing.
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Hey CMP,
I took the liberty to post your pic on a skeptic forum and asked what an atheist thinks of this.
Interesting discussion:
http://skepchick.org/skepticsguide/index.php?topic=14687
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OK, I’ll bite
.
I don’t want to put words into your mouth, so if I’m interpreting it differently than you intended, feel free to correct me on that.
The entire “argument” (if you even want to ascribe that title to what is essentially a snarky internet bumper sticker) is a straw man. There is no universal atheist doctrine, no atheist apostle’s creed. You’re trying to homogenize atheists and projecting something onto them that just isn’t there.
How do you define “order” in the universe?
You seem to be saying that there IS a universal morality. On what is that conclusion based?
You’re going to have to explain what you mean by “the ultimate emotional articulation of self-centeredness.”
Your “cover up and suppression of belief” in a personal God argument is a little silly. It is very efficient though as you’ve managed to beg the strawman. An atheist’s non-belief is purposed “fearfully” towards the suppression of the beliefs of others? How can an atheist be afraid of something they don’t believe exists? Why do you assume an ulterior motive to one’s non-belief?
Perhaps I’ve just been fortunate, but most of the atheists I’ve met have arrived at their conclusion, not out of fear or a need to suppress others, but because of the acquisition of knowledge, years of study, critical examination, and introspection. Knowledge will always be the enemy of religion. We leave the suppression and cover-up to you guys. You have more practice
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Matt, this was wrong for me to post in such a way.
I have added the original post so that people can see where I was coming from. It was in response to another poster from an atheist. I was trying to post with the same distaste.
At least now you (and others) can see how this arose.
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Ahahahahaha…
ahahaha…
ahaha…
Not funny.
Also…
Atheism is not calling for the existance of a reasonless universe, but a universe which is only viewed through reason.
How can morals be reasoned for a purpose? After all, morality is its own purpose!
Why does morality based on logic and as few assumptions as possible lead to self-centeredness. It could, however, lead to confusion or situation ethics, but that is nothing new.
And atheist is not trying to suppress anything, it only denies the existance of god.
While I personally believe in Him, I see no reason why so many people create straw men of atheists!
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Surely if people get in trouble for racism and if atheism is a belief just the same, this is an extremely racist page?
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When one cuts through the massive amounts of inflated vocabularic wankery in this rambling run-on sentence, one is left with very little, except a pathetic straw-man argument from someone not willing to approach the subject honestly, because his own faith requires compartmentalization and denial in order not to collapse in upon its own crumbling foundations of arrogance, ignorance, and fear.
The simple ease with which this individual lies and slanders those he disagrees with to prop up his own frightened and fragmented ideologies is a near-perfect example of cultural xenophobia.
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Ok. Im not saying im an atheist, but this poster is completely irrational. That’s not the way an atheist thinks at all.
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I am an atheist! What makes anyone believe only religious people have a (divine) right to live with morals. Why do religious peole attack atheists ? Do they feel threatened ?
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The world was created by accident but that doesn’t mean it is chaos. Humanity creates order our of chaos (or in the case of religion chaos out of ordered chaos). Also, just because the universe was not created with intent does not mean moral values are not needed. It just means they are not given and it takes a better person to figure out good morals than to follow them.
In conclusion, you are wrong and I am right (not on the correct religion argument but on the fact that atheists are not a bunch of self centered arseholes that much of the christian west seems to be. That’s right, I’m talking to you american capitalist pigs).
Don’t think I hat christians. Just the christians that are arseholes.
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What defines an atheist is this and only this:
Lack of belief in God.
or in other words,
Belief that God does not exist.
Even if your poster did make sense, you would not be able to generalize on such an enormous category of people. You can’t really draw any conclusions from that one belief. For instance, not all atheists are outspoken, smug, debaters.
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You’re all retarded its the 21st century and unless your under the age of 10 you should grow up and quit believing fairy tales.
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Sorry I only read the first few comments by Christians I meant to say the christians are retarded and muslims if their here too, grow up no religion has any legitimate relevance to life as we know it in the year 2010, I cannot believe how stupid people can be.
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Since this was only a response to an atheistic poster of equivalent irrationality, the hate turned on it should be levelled at the original.
Jesse, if raw IQ figures are considered, then everyone up to the first standard deviation (115) are retarded from my perspective. That’s about 83.5% of the population.
Vox Day had some interesting studies in his book The Irrational Atheist.
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You people are fools. But, it doesn’t come as a surprise that you still don’t understand atheism. First of all, being an atheist doesn’t have any direct implications on morality or the nature of the universe; It simply is a belief that there is no god. However, if you were to ask a good sample of atheists, I would say that over 90% believe the universe isn’t random but rather functions on logic and that morality does in fact exist and that it is innate. Although atheism by definition does not imply these conclusions, I and other atheists logically deduce these conclusions which happen to be completely contrary to the supposed atheistic ideals represented in this painfully ignorant image. If you are going to slag a group of people, get your god damn facts straight. On the same topic of ignorantly dismissing ideas, I challenge any creationist/intelligent design advocate to comprehensively explain evolution without copy and pasting from wikipedia. Of course my assumption is that you won’t be able to because anyone who actually understands the evidence for evolution would most often be disinclined to dismiss it as a conspiracy.
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When will people drop the pathetic and incorrect argument that all atheists are completely amoral and believe the world is pointless? If anything, all that’s been credited to the beauty of God is far more beautiful for having evolved by chance; while there have been amoral atheists there have been worse religious people, and the vast majority of atheists are highly moral people. Just because the human race may only exist out of coincidence, and we may only survive to pass on our DNA, doesn’t make the pressures of humanity that caused moral codes such as those in many religions to be created disappear. I, at least, acknowledge that there’s no grand plan to the universe, no predestined meaning of life. This doesn’t mean you can’t create your own.
I also find it ironic that you can claim “atheism” – which, as so many people here have already said, isn’t a coherent religious movement with any defined beliefs or codes other than the non-existence of deities – suppresses belief when several of the major religions teach that atheists should be executed, and that they’ll suffer for eternity after death. All atheists have done is publish a few books and flame a few people.
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Allow me to clarify one thing, this picture is false completely in it’s depiction of Atheism, because it suggests Atheism is trying to sell you somthing other than religion. Atheism is not another belief system, Atheism is no belief system, we are not trying to say “Don’t buy into what they are selling, buy into what we are selling”, we are simply saying we don’t buy what they are selling, and that is it. Atheists have the exact same, if not better, morals than a Theist also, because if a Theist gives a dollar to a begger, they expect a reward from god in the after life, or some kind of good karma, so their justification is selfish, a non-believer does it out of goodness or humanitarianism, and expects no reward at all. I hope this made some Thiests realise that the writer of the above picture is obviously a religious bigot.
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The problem with atheists is all they can say is that they do not believe in God, however they cannot disprove it anymore than they can explain any other thing going on from explanation of physical universe, purpose of existence, all the way to any sort of afterlife. They have no statistics or proven science that holds any validity to anything, whereas the Bible has proven prophecy, multiple copies with credible accuracy, and numerous witnessed and documented accounts of events/miracles eye witnessed by pagans and other non believers. Yet they can only say “there is no such thing as God”, yeah real intelligent answer and explanation defending your cases. Atheism is just a modern day ignorance and the absence of a regenerated soul (not saying that regeneration possibly just hadn’t happened yet in some.)
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I totally agree with Matt Gubser.
I find it completely unacceptable that religious people attempt to turn atheism into a competing doctrine. People must understand that atheism does not have an agenda in the same way that most religions do. Most atheists are concerned only with TRUTH and have adopted their standpoint based on EVIDENCE.
Mitchell, honestly, I really don’t like saying this – but you are are a very misguided person who needs to go and think about what you are typing in future.
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I have notice that in may post the argument has been made that atheists only deny that there is a God. well then they by this belief they are denying a creator. if we deny ourselves of a creator then we deny ourselves of having a purpose. since then we would have no purpose for our life then we must conclude that there is no meaning for life.
I believe there is a meaning for life, so then we have, a purpose, a creator, and a God. I just wonder why my worship of him is so offensive to those who don’t believe he exist?( as I have been harrassed for reading my bible.) any thoughts?
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Once again James, one thing you still have yet to provide to us Bible thumpers is in fact that EVIDENCE that provides TRUTH. Like Darwin, its seems to be your missing link to have any ground for your lack of belief. But wait, you if have no competing agenda then what can you say for your defense with no agenda or “credible” evidence. Not bashing your belief, just calling as I see it because with faith in nothing, thats all your future holds…is nothing. Seems grim. Do you actually believe that as complex as the universe and all creation is, that there is nothing more to it than a short life with no purpose? Evolution has been defeated to the point that they’re removing the teaching of it in textbooks in new revisions. I respect atheists decision if thats what they want to convince themselves to believe, however ignorance sets in when they try to disprove the Bible and it’s God. It explains how, when, and why He did and does everything. So those who says how can He kill entire countries, need to stop criticizing and open up the Bible and its clearly told why. All of any criticism is ramblings of an ignorant person that is too lazy to find out on their own by researching what their mouth is vomiting. So send me some proof on this truth you so strongly hold on to with “evidence” (or lack of).
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Devin, your probably the most ignorant of the bunch on this forum. For one….EVOLUTION CAN’T BE PROVEN!!! Want proof? Study the laws of inertia and thermodynamics, wups there goes your randomly created universe by chance. Now lets look at man and ape, well there has been no evidence of a transitional state between the two, not in archeology or anything else. This is the “MISSING LINK” that still leaves evolution unproven. Modern day Archeologists state that every day that goes by their finds and discoveries make the Bibles “creation” validity more and more proven. You want it comprehensively explained? Yeah, lazily let everyone else do the work for you. And if your looking at wikipedia….Ha, I’m not even going to go there, it discredits itself by letting ignorant people change and add to its definitions. Do your own homework!!! Quit listening to your ignorant protege’s because they lack prodigy in atheism. Besides, how did you convince yourself something can be created by nothing? Hmmm….you must believe in magic, but what created that? Hmmm…it must have evolved! From what? Atheism…it’s a self defeating battle. Pick up a Holy Bible, Study it with all of your heart and then try to disprove it. It will not be easy, in fact it’s down right impossible. There is too much supporting evidence, prophecy and accuracy.
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One of the concepts in mathematics that doesn’t exist in the natural universe is the idea of “randomness”
There is nothing that is totally “random” in this universe. Everything is caused by something else. Some of the atheists who posted including those who think they are logical believe they are being accused of believing in randomness. Guess what? I don’t see what they are ranting about. There is no such accusation in the poster. Such belief is illogical.
And if any atheist would like to affirm that there is “order”, what order is that? Whose order is that? Why, oh why, would you call it “order” as opposed to coincidental natural phenomenon? “Order” implies purpose. Atheists aren’t supposed to believe that there is a “purpose”. Or do they now? O_o
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Atheism is not a belief system. Research Secular Humanism; that is a true atheistic belief system. What you are insinuating is Nihilism, not atheism.
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It will always come down to the last breath of a man, and God having foreknown and having acted in that persons life to bring them where He wanted them. Our focus should never be on the “athiest” who are dead to Christ, but on Christ who is able to bring them to repentance by and through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. There is not one person born who hears the Gospel that does not make their own choice. God does not drag anyone to repentance. Always keep in mind many are called, but few answer the call. There is no antimony here concerning aithiesm. They have a choice. Time is short so don’t waste time debating or even discussing. Keep a right focus and go preach the gospel knowing that if a preacher did not come and preach the Gospel we would not have heard.
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Excuse spelling.
The argument that athiest now use, the “athiesm is to broad to debunk” argument, is extreamely cowardice. Athiesm to me, is a sociall autism. But let me tell you why.
If there is no God, then morals would arise from matter hiting matter by accident until we appear millions of years later to argue about it. If God is not real then we came from nothing right? What is nothing? Imagine being in a world of nothing.
This is proof of time, because your thoughts are forming is your brain linearly, obviously because you now know something you didn’t know a few seconds ago, because you are aware of the fact that you are in nothing. Sure life can arise from that by accident, but it is obvious that something had to start the spark of linear time. Since god is refered to as timeles, the idea that nothing is the begining is fallacious. There is always be something before, until you get to infinity. And so you realize that since the laws of physics are limitations, and if there is a god he is not constricted by them, then the universe could not create itself.
And if it did, there was something before that directed it to. And that director gave us morals to experience life, and love. Or else we would have no purpose, and even athiest have a purpose, even if it is delusion. A life without purpose doesn’t last very long, thus the large amounts of suicides in europe.
Its funny I’m 17, and know alot more about life than that psuedo intellectual walking around…whats his name? Oh yeah, Dawkins.
He makes athiest look bad.
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jjj I would say that the Lord has given you faith and insight to the obvious. I say obvious only because it is to us who have faith and undertanding. Here is my email. write to me and I will send you my new book which came out last week on Amazon. Barns And Noble are playing games with the listing. They listed it and then pulled it. They are not giving us any explanations. so Here it is goldmakers@aol.com. I ll send you a copy or anyone . If you like it please purchase one. All proceeds go to the Homeless, in need of Drug and Alcohol counceling. sincerely JMP
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The people that argue that without God humanity would have no morals make me sad. Why do you have so little faith in humanity?
Mitchell, evolution has been proven in the laboratory numerous times. At a genetic level, evolution is a fact. Saying that evolution cannot be proven is just proof of a lack of knowledge in the subject.
Here’s a thought: Perhaps God did not create us in his image, but we crated God in our image.
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Miroslaw Would mind replying with the evidence you have parroted. I find it amusing that you make a claim “that is has been proven on the geneticlevel many times in laboratories. It is my understanding that they always started with something and actually create nothing. For proof they must create a double helix strand of DNA. Whuch they have admited they can not do. It is not possible. It requires the spark of life. That thing they claim doesn’t exist, and yet it does, and prevents them from PROVING anything.
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2010! … Almost 2011! ..and here we find the greatest slur on humanity still being encouraged and taken oh so seriously .. come on guys and gals .. Time to grow up and put the God thing away with all the other superstitions, legends and fairy tales. Faith, never has nor never will, give any worthwhile answers. Faith relies on blind arrogant belief, never questioning and never doubting the dubious writings of two thousand years ago. Religion of any denomination uses this blind faith to hide behind and weald its power over the weak. Religion uses this faith so that a bunch of bloated bibulous old men can creep around in dresses pretending they have a direct line of communication with an imaginary fat geezer who lives in a place called heaven high up in the sky, this God is so powerful and awesome, yet too vain and arrogant to show his face. Oh yes lets not forget his ‘get out clause’ of non interference. As Friedrich Nietzsch said ‘Faith means not wanting to know what is true’ Simple! Admit it science may not have all the answers but it is discovering them at an alarming rate. So fast, in fact, it has you all nervously looking for an exit plan ready for the day that your God washes up on a beach someplace like the bloated corpse of Moby Dick.
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Miroslaw,
“The people that argue that without God humanity would have no morals make me sad. Why do you have so little faith in humanity?”
Oh I have faith in humanity. But look back at history pumpkin. What country believe in god through out the last century? What countries haven’t? Which countries have done what?
exactly. Stupid questions that the western world asks itself, like “who are we and why are we here?” have been answered a very, very long time ago.
Know your history.
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JJJ, It sounds like you have a god ( little g). Every logical argument finds itself at the foundation of truth. Even Hawkins agrees there is a created purpose for the universe. It also had a begining. Nothing from nothing you say! I say how foolish to abandon science, math and logic so early in this conversation. So just where did the universe come from and what purpose do you serve in it. So without God the creator where would you be. At least my God not only died to give you a choice, but is willing to forgive you8 for your wickedness. OH by the way we are not using our paradigm of Good and Evil here. We are going to be at His mercy and his judgement.
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Here’s what I don’t get: Why do Christians think that punching holes in evolutionary theory is evidence that the Judeo-Christian god exists? Why is “God” always the default answer to something we can’t explain?
For example: Let’s say you and I sat down at a table with a standard, brand new deck of cards. I draw one card out of the deck and lay it face-down on the table so that neither of us knows what it is. Each of us has to guess what is on the other side of the card. If one of us gets it right, the other has to pay us $1000.
Let’s say you guess it’s the 10 of Diamonds, and I guess it’s a picture of Jesus. You scoff at me because of how silly my guess is, knowing that there’s know way I’ll win.
Now, I can punch a hole in your guess by looking through the remaining cards and finding the 10 of diamonds in the stack… evidence that your guess was wrong. But does that prove that the mystery card really has a picture of Jesus on it? Should you have to assume the Jesus card exists, just because I provided evidence against your guess? No! If I wanted to get paid, you’d demand to see what’s on the other side of the card. You’d demand some kind of proof or evidence to support my guess before giving in to such an absurd claim.
That’s how atheists feel when religious people think they’re proving God’s existence by punching holes in science’s explanations.
Do I know for certain that we descended from a common ancestor as other primates, shaped by our environment and survival of the fittest? No… but it sounds more plausible than “God did it.” Do I know for certain that the “Big Bang Theory” is how it all began? No… but considering the evidence, it sounds more reasonable than “Arts and Crafts Week with the Big Man in the Sky.”
The idea that atheists should have to disprove the existence of the Judeo-Christian God is absurd. Otherwise, Christians still have to disprove the existence of Zeus, Ra, Apollo,…
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Skoot, that is a brilliant analogy. Consider it stolen.
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i just think that their isnt enough facts on both subjects to prove that either belief is right or wrong (sorry im agnostic -.-) i mean really? god could exoist but science has more proof than god creating everything in a couple days
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disagree ,, i believe in god so much I have only one question just for you, from where the first humen came ??
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This argument is too basic for me to even try and cover all of the errors in just on post, so I won’t attempt to refute it. I suggest being a bit more open-minded.
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I have a simple one word answer to all the idiotic attempts at theists trying to grasp that a supernatural being created all of us approximately 10,000 years ago
Dinosaurs
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Why do people keep repeating the “evolution is on the way out” nonsense? Clearly they have been following neither the (recent) legal history of evolution vs. ID nor any mainstream scientific research.
Also, to say that evolution relies on “chance” or “randomness” is to provide clear, damning evidence that you have no idea how evolution works. Evolution is driven by natural selection, which is just about as far from chance as you can get. And, as skoot pointed out, even totally disproving evolution would not provide ANY evidence for a specific intelligent creator.
Also, @ Mitchell, there’s *plenty* of evidence for the common ancestry of humans and other primates. Have you been trained to look at the archaeological evidence?
I invite you to view this excellent outline of current research on fossil hominids: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/
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“Its funny I’m 17, and know alot more about life than that psuedo intellectual walking around…whats his name? Oh yeah, Dawkins.
He makes athiest look bad.”
You really, really don’t. You make non-atheists look bad in several ways, but you begin by saying “excuse spelling” (and grammar, apparently). I’ll forgive you and assume that English is your second language, but sadly that has little bearing on your (lack of) logic.
“If there is no God, then morals would arise from matter hiting matter by accident until we appear millions of years later to argue about it.”
And? Even if we assumed this to be true, it doesn’t advance your position. The sentence is meaningless without elaboration.
-”If God is not real then we came from nothing right?” etc. etc.-
Erm, excuse me? What we’re saying is that your notions of god are *highly* implausible. That does NOT mean we think “we all came from nothing”. You may as well delete the entire middle paragraph in which you “disprove” that we all came from nothing. Also, the fact that we all didn’t come from nothing in no way validates your particular conception of what god is. Logic 101.
You claim that even atheists have purpose (and that they think they have purpose, which you call “delusion”), but then in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE you say that there are high suicide rates in Europe because people lack purpose. What? I find it both ignorant and offensive for you to suggest that we cannot have a purpose without a god.
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This is more nihilistic than atheistic.
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