I know…what is Michael playing at?? How on earth will we cope without being able to poke fun at postmodern folk! How can this be??

Unfortuantely, and I hate to have be the one to break the news, but maybe the time has come for us all to sit up and realise that maybe we ourselves are post-moderrn folk…or at least understand that we are in state of semi-comatose denial as we seek to desperately cling on to onto living a “modern” church existence only to step outside the church building and find ourselves in a post-modern world with which we are ill-equipped to cope and are actively discouraged from engaging with.. In fact we tend to prefer to hunker down in our modern church ghetto where we feel safe and secure from the postmodern maelstrom “out there”.

For a long time I could not understand the frustration I felt at how irrelevant and disengaging many parts of the church had become, including the congregation I belong to which I had always considered fairly contemporary and switched on. I then began to come to an understanding and the challenging realistation that I am, in essence, a post-modern man, working and living in a postmodern world/local community, yet who was a member of a church entrenched in a modern mode of existence. Once I had gotten my head around this fact, it helped me understand some of the roots of the dissatisfaction I was feeling.

I was then faced with a choice. Should I leave the church to which I have belonged for the best part of 25 years, or stay within it and help lead and reshape it to be more of an outward-facing missional church, both equipped and, in turn, equipping its members to serve, love , honour, glorify and bear witness to Jesus in the very midst of a post-modern society? I decided to stay and feel that some of that re-shaping is beginning to take place, although there is still a fair way to go.

As one who likes to think he has a fairly good sense of humour, yes, poking fun at postmoderns can be great fun (I still think there may be some mileage in having some fun at the expense of the more radical water changers Michael describes ) eg I find the image of a univeralism which could envisage a “saved” Adolf Hitler spending some of his eternal stay in the heavenly realms plotting a way of ridding heaven of all exterminating and eliminating heaven of all those who do not conform to his heavenly mindset a useful way to, in a tongue-in-cheek way, still poke some fun at radical postmodern folk), so long as we, in a spirit of irenic generosity and fair play, allow them their own fun at the expense of those who are still relatively cocooned within a more modern sphere of existence.

Have no fear Dac, I am sure Michael will continue with his witty caricatures of the many faceted world that is the Christian church.,,and none us are safe!

Can I just say this is one of the best posts of yours that I think I have ever have read.

It’s clarity is superb and it really helped me put myself where I am “on the church/postmodernity” map if you get my drift.

It was really funny because as I began I was thinking “oh no.,.is this going to be one of those parts were Micahel and I part company, and stop drinking sodas together for a while , .but I am learning… and I decided to read the whole thread through before responding and am so glad that I did.

On this issue my friend we are virtually conjoined twins it would appear. Having read your categorisations I definitely am a Category 3 rope swinger and I am a moderate water changer man (P&P people, please note I am a moderate and not a radical in this regard…although radical in some respects not in this one!)

I firmly believe that the church should be continually changing the rope, regularly re-evaluating the culture we find ourselves living in, and to courageously make the necessary changes based upon the ethos of the generation, to reach that generation. It is interesting to note that Brian McLaren has stated in one of his books that he has older conservative evangelical Christians who often find themselves, through gritted teeth sometimes, say to him something along the lines of “look …I don’t really like what you are about… because it doesn’t resonate with me and the way I was brought up in the faith, but I do know that if I want my children and grandchildren to stay and grow in the faith, I have to wish you success, because their continuing Christian involvement depends largely on your type of Christianity succeeding.” In other words, change the rope and yes, even, moderately change the water.

I must admit Michael, my initial thought was that you were going to have little truck with those who seek to change the water. Hence I was both fascinated and thrilled to see your distinction between the moderate and radical water changes because it made me feel more comfortable about continuing to advocate “removing of the impurities” that I feel the church has often added to the water. In the worst-case scenarios, this has resulted in turning non-essentials into essentials of belief preventing many from embracing an additive-free gospel”. In fact a pure, unadulterated gospel cannot be such until it has been freed from the additives that adherents of a so-called “pure and unadulterated gospel” have sprinkled into the mix, if that makes any sense!

“I do believe that the Gospel can become identified by non-essential methodology and folk lore. Indeed, this makes the water not only hard to drink, but it can become completely destructive to the representation of Christ. Christ, in this sense, can be separated from the Gospel and the church. We need to make sure this does not happen.”

Michael, I so agree with you on this. Can we emblazon this statement boldly across all church notice sheets one weekend, just to see what the reaction would be!

In conclusion I confess that I am an unashamed rope changer and a convinced moderate water changer. I confess to a far reduced leaning towards the “denying the horse” or “converting the horse options, (sorry folks…just the way it is I’m afraid) but I’m with you that they do have their place and their merits, but I would contend that they need to be adopted fairly sparingly as opposed to the latter two perspectives.

I think we need to rearrange the deckchairs on the ship on this one Michael…we are almost ssipping soda sie by side on the same deck of the vessel!