I would come to the conclusion it is mostly an emotional pride and lack of understanding of God’s Law.

I feel sorry though that his friends would abandon him if that is the case, although he didnt specify to the degree of their withdrawl. I think it comes off as condescending because they dont understand their own fallen state.

When I was in seminary I was on the verge of chucking the whole thing. I had trouble reconciling conservative dogma with scientific findings regarding the universe and critical views of the scripture. Conservatism tends to generate this sort of bind. Either you accept the statements of scripture as historically and scientifically true or you don’t believe the bible. It also tends to reduce faith to an acceptance of propositions. This is perhaps the most insidious thing of all. Get into a discussion in any group regarding “the faith” and they will begin discussing dogmas. Faith is not dogma but rather a trust in God as he has revealed himself in Jesus Christ set forth in the NT as loving his creation. It is thus a commitment to God and not a commitment to propositions about God. Sometimes I think our dogmatics constitutes the creation of a graven image since we attempt to set forth what God must be and do. We need to return to that very familiar verse

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.

We also need to follow that up with the next verses, especially the 2nd verse following it

Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Man creates his own hell right here and right now through his failure to trust in the God who created the universe to be favorably inclined toward him and accepting.

Fortunately, this George (yes, that’s my name) didn’t leave the faith. It was impossible for me to do so

28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 What my Father has given me is greater than all else, and no one can snatch it out of the Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one.”

Jn 10.28-30

Admittedly, many today might question my credentials as a Christian since I don’t hold to a “verbal, plenary inspiration” and even regard some passages as being less than authoritative. It seems that the Church is ready to confess with the mouth that there is a progress to revelation, but, when it comes to any practical examples of this, they deny it.

whoschad: I think everyone agrees that George just didn’t “get it.” The question for Christians, I think, is how did he spend so many years faking/misunderstanding it and never get caught?

I don’t mean to make light of it. This is a serious question. Church pews are filled with people who don’t get it: people who come for programs, to sing in the choir (who you looking at?!) and sell insurance. These might be relatively easy to spot but there are also many who think they get it or are like George. How does the ministry locate these people and how do they reach them? How do you move people from a superficial religion to a more mature one? Didn’t Willow Creek just figure out that there high and mighty plans to make disciples had fallen completely flat?

I forget what blog brought up the topic of “discernment” but this is supposed to be a spiritual tool, right? Can it be developed? What is it exactly? These, I think, are the kinds of questions that Michael was trying to get at (hit me over the head if necessary, M.)

BTW: There may be some sensitive souls who will be moved by being told that you are praying for them. However, the many non-believers will be, at best, bemused and, at worst, annoyed. By all means pray for us if you will but realize that confronting us with the fact may backfire.

I think that nearly every point this guy makes is bad or hypocritical. Maybe he just didn’t write his thoughts down clearly, but these reasons and his subsequent reassurances are almost ridiculous.

Consider these points in his letter:
He says: “I really for the first time in my life read the Bible thoroughly”

Then he sites 3 examples of things that appalled him – His doctrine of hell is childish nonsense, he apparently thinks that Revelations (with an ‘s’) is all literal, and he almost INTENTIONALLY gets the entire point of Babel wrong.

For him to say that this is ‘thorough’ study of the bible is a joke. Because of this, I find it hard to believe him when he says he read any books on apologetics. His level of study is practically non-existent.

After this, he puts down his friends by saying of them: ‘they don’t accept me as-is – they need me to change in order for them to accept me’. AND THEN IN THE VERY NEXT SENTENCE HE DECLARES THAT HE WANTS TO CHANGE THEM! ‘Hopefully that will wear off’.

Does he not see the hypocrisy in this? How can he fault his friends for doing the same thing he is doing?

Finally he declares that he is ‘more Christian than ever’. Here is his proof: His wife has a Bible Study and since he shares a house with his wife, this apparently counts as being ‘more Christian than ever’. How in the world can it be said that this guy has done a lot of ‘study’ on Christianity? The things he says are so backwards they’re ANTI-christian. From the sound of this letter this guy not only was never a Christian, but he never even understood Christianity. He keeps insisting that people sometimes do good things and that should count for something when weighed against the bad things. This is PROFOUNDLY anti-Christian.

I can’t imagine that this person looked into Christianity at all when he was going through his crisis. Also, it sounds to me like this guy never even heard the gospel. If he had heard it and understood it he would not say the kinds of things he says in this letter.

In the end I’d say this:
1. Someone needs to tell him the gospel.
2. Someone needs to tell him to put down whatever apologetics book he’s reading and get him some decent study materials.

David- I know! This is heartbreaking. This is the stuff I don’t get. This is when I say,”I don’t know”. God knows
and that’s about as comforting as it gets for me sometimes.

And when you see a child suffer it’s even more difficult to stomach……….literally

You either draw close to God when you don’t understand the suffering (either temporal or eternal) or you try to run from Him. I can’t imagine turning away from God. What else would I have- some fickle theology that changes daily?

Kara

Kara,

Great points!!! I agree with your evaluation and
judgement of the situation.

Here is a link at youtube detailing real suffering!

Secondly, I’m also learning to say, “I don’t know”.

David

Scott- that is funny.

David- I agree with you 100%. Out lives are going to be difficult. There’s no doubt about that. I don’t like the health, wealth, and prosperity message.

However, I don’t think George left because he was having a bad life. He left because he didn’t understand questions regarding Hell, election, the story of the Tower of Babel….

I think we all struggle with these concepts, stories, and doctrines. We have to be sensitive and careful when we discuss certain topics with others. And we can’t act like we know all the answers!

We have to go and find that lost sheep, even if we are irritated with him for whining.

Some people tend to focus on God’s goodness, love, mercy, and grace while others focus on God’s justice, wrath, and judgement. You have to look at the whole picture or you’ll be confused, like George (the guy who wrote the letter) or Joel Osteen (hahah). J/K

Scott,

Thanks for understanding my point and not bashing me for
being without compassion. I like what Dr. James White said
once in a video blog. He said, “what you win them with is what
you win them to..”

I’m just tired of the ex-Christians getting the spotlight while
the Christians who suffered through great trials and tribulations
and still have a strong walk with God get no attention.

The Gospel is that you are God’s enemy but through His son,
He is reconciling the world back unto Himself.

The Gospel is not Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan
for your life. God doesn’t have a wonderful plan for your life.
God is wonderful and that can make life worth the living
even when times get tough, you get fired, you are accused
falsely, you become sick, a father-in-law gets killed in a car
wreck, you don’t get that raise, you aren’t voted most likely
to succeed and your personal dreams don’t come true.

God is wonderful and this life leads to the best of all possible worlds. If we can just realize that fact and know this life last a nanosecond in light of eternity, I think we will be okay.
God is transforming us into the image of His Son, Jesus Christ
and that is the true purpose of life. The Son learned obedience through the things He suffered. Why should we be any different. Are we better that the Son?

God is our reward!!!

David,

At first I was going to lament the lack of compassion among some Christians in cases like this but your wrap up struck me.

This mentality happens because the church teaches people that God owes them a living and has a wonderful plan for
our life.

The church I attend is screening “Fire Proof” next month so I checked it out. The jubilation among most churchgoers that a “Christian Movie” is coming out has been perplexing. Even the positive reviews I read point out that the theology in this flick is simplistic. Fire Proof’s predecessor “Facing the Giants” was similarly infested with a God-will-get-you-a-raise-cure-your-infertility-and-win-the-State-Championship-for-you theology. At first I thought that it was a real shame that this pablum is all that the Christian-in-the-pew seems to want or get instead of the meat of a mature faith. But now I think that it crosses over into the dangerous delusion that, as you said, once you accept Jesus your life will be honky-dorey. The real irony is that, no one gets that when they are saved but they insist that portrayals of it promote the Gospel.

Sounds like a real cry baby! I have close friends who have gone through terrible tragedy and their faith is even stronger.
I don’t have much compassion for this story. Most of the
ex-christian stories I’ve read over at ex-christian.net read the
same way or worse. They all seem to have a chip on their shoulder about something God hasn’t done for them.

Believers in other countries have awful things happen to them
and their faith only grows much stronger. I don’t have
any desire to “evangelize” the apostate nor do I think we
should give them any room to vent about how terrible their
“Christian” experience has been.

Let them go on a missions trip with my friend to India and see
little Christian girls who were burned up by Buddhist monks or
Muslims and yet these families always seem to hold on to
a very vibrant and growing faith.

I don’t have time for their moaning and groaning and I don’t
think God does either.

This mentality happens because the church teaches people that God owes them a living and has a wonderful plan for
our life.