Comments on: The Entertainment Driven Church http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/the-entertainment-driven-church/ Making Theology Accessible Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:26:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: C. Barton http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/the-entertainment-driven-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4531 C. Barton Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:13:26 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=501#comment-4531 If by West, you mean the "civilized" western culture, including the UK and Europe, it is speeding headlong that way, as far as I can tell. The EU uses the tower of babel for their icon, and there are 665 seats in their congress - the 666th seat remains unoccupied, but probably not for long!! And this is the awesome message of Revelation: the Beast must be manifest on the earth and we who face him (if your theology permits this) must stand, and many will stand and die. "I do not bow to Ceasar, Jesus is Lord!" Remember that Jesus said the world at large is clamoring after food and clothing, and I would add money and security (peace) and purpose in life. But Jesus said that we already had all these things as heirs to God's Kingdom, which is why I believe it is so important to be as charismatic (shining the miraculous life of Jesus out to others), so that the world can see the difference. Truly, man lives (in the Spirit) by the living Word of God. When God puts His Spirit in something, it has life! If by West, you mean the “civilized” western culture, including the UK and Europe, it is speeding headlong that way, as far as I can tell. The EU uses the tower of babel for their icon, and there are 665 seats in their congress – the 666th seat remains unoccupied, but probably not for long!!
And this is the awesome message of Revelation: the Beast must be manifest on the earth and we who face him (if your theology permits this) must stand, and many will stand and die. “I do not bow to Ceasar, Jesus is Lord!”
Remember that Jesus said the world at large is clamoring after food and clothing, and I would add money and security (peace) and purpose in life. But Jesus said that we already had all these things as heirs to God’s Kingdom, which is why I believe it is so important to be as charismatic (shining the miraculous life of Jesus out to others), so that the world can see the difference.
Truly, man lives (in the Spirit) by the living Word of God. When God puts His Spirit in something, it has life!

]]> By: Jason C http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/the-entertainment-driven-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4530 Jason C Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:07:09 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=501#comment-4530 I blame it on the cafe culture. Christianity proper is like coffee, black, strong, no sugar. You brew it up, drink it down, and you are awake buzzed all night... well maybe not the last bit. Cafe culture Christianity is like espresso, a tiny bit of coffee and a lot of froth. If you're really unlucky you get no coffee. It also costs a lot more. We just need to rip all the emasculated nonsense that has pervaded the Western culture. What we need is the West to become dominated by a bunch of God hating socialists who will institute anti-Christian policies and force people to actually make a choice... Isn't that the West already? I blame it on the cafe culture.

Christianity proper is like coffee, black, strong, no sugar. You brew it up, drink it down, and you are awake buzzed all night… well maybe not the last bit.

Cafe culture Christianity is like espresso, a tiny bit of coffee and a lot of froth. If you’re really unlucky you get no coffee. It also costs a lot more.

We just need to rip all the emasculated nonsense that has pervaded the Western culture. What we need is the West to become dominated by a bunch of God hating socialists who will institute anti-Christian policies and force people to actually make a choice…

Isn’t that the West already?

]]> By: C. Barton http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/the-entertainment-driven-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4529 C. Barton Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:43:23 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=501#comment-4529 Zakiyah - not only can we, but we must. I made the analogy before of not letting our children plan the dinner menu, or else we will almost never get the nutrition we need. My contention is that only the spiritually mature ought to lead in the church and those who need growth should allow the discipline of the Lord to guide them through those uncertain times in which we are drawn to the world, not having completely rejected all the glitz and glam that the world offers. But what happens in the "Purpose Driven" compromise is that everything eventually gets dragged down to a lowest common denominator, and noone really gets "lifted up" anymore. For example, I used to watch a lot of movies with violence and coarse language, but now that the Lord is opening my eyes, my tastes have changed! It's not that I try to act better, I just want to do and see better things because of His presence in my life! To His glory, then, let us do these things. Zakiyah – not only can we, but we must. I made the analogy before of not letting our children plan the dinner menu, or else we will almost never get the nutrition we need.
My contention is that only the spiritually mature ought to lead in the church and those who need growth should allow the discipline of the Lord to guide them through those uncertain times in which we are drawn to the world, not having completely rejected all the glitz and glam that the world offers. But what happens in the “Purpose Driven” compromise is that everything eventually gets dragged down to a lowest common denominator, and noone really gets “lifted up” anymore.
For example, I used to watch a lot of movies with violence and coarse language, but now that the Lord is opening my eyes, my tastes have changed! It’s not that I try to act better, I just want to do and see better things because of His presence in my life! To His glory, then, let us do these things.

]]> By: Zakiyah http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/the-entertainment-driven-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4528 Zakiyah Sun, 09 Aug 2009 09:54:32 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=501#comment-4528 I googled "church entertainment" to get another view point on the seemingly "wordliness" of what is being done in some churches and what (to me) seems to dishonor scripture, disregard God's purpose and intent for the Body of Christ. What Patton wrote was hilarious but sadly somewhat true, I know of a couple of ministries very similar to what he described! The point I make is, every believer is not on the same level of understanding. Many Christians are carnal minded and very comfortable in their ignorance of the Bible. I need a Word Based service, but someone else would possibly find what I need and enjoy very boring. However, when I sit and listen to an anointed, spirit filled, spirit led person (it does not have to be the Pastor) expound or open up the scriptures, giving revelation from God, I get very excited and my spirit leaps for joy! I personally don't need to be entertained with singers, musicians, etc. I don't need to be coaxed or coached into praise and worship. I go to "church" for the word and fellowship and if while there the Holy Spirit ministers individually, that is a blessed bonus! IF the singing and music is anointed and helps set the atmosphere for TRUE Worship John 4:23-24, then by all means go forth! I love to praise Him in song and dance! While I understand why all the hype is there, to draw people to their "church", Jesus said, "If I be lifted up, I'll draw all men unto me." This may be using the Word out of true context but it still is and forever will be about Jesus Christ and we are His body, left here to continue HIS ministry--why can't we just do that??!!! I googled “church entertainment” to get another view point on the seemingly “wordliness” of what is being done in some churches and what (to me) seems to dishonor scripture, disregard God’s purpose and intent for the Body of Christ. What Patton wrote was hilarious but sadly somewhat true, I know of a couple of ministries very similar to what he described!
The point I make is, every believer is not on the same level of understanding. Many Christians are carnal minded and very comfortable in their ignorance of the Bible. I need a Word Based service, but someone else would possibly find what I need and enjoy very boring. However, when I sit and listen to an anointed, spirit filled, spirit led person (it does not have to be the Pastor) expound or open up the scriptures, giving revelation from God, I get very excited and my spirit leaps for joy! I personally don’t need to be entertained with singers, musicians, etc. I don’t need to be coaxed or coached into praise and worship. I go to “church” for the word and fellowship and if while there the Holy Spirit ministers individually, that is a blessed bonus! IF the singing and music is anointed and helps set the atmosphere for TRUE Worship John 4:23-24, then by all means go forth! I love to praise Him in song and dance!
While I understand why all the hype is there, to draw people to their “church”, Jesus said, “If I be lifted up, I’ll draw all men unto me.” This may be using the Word out of true context but it still is and forever will be about Jesus Christ and we are His body, left here to continue HIS ministry–why can’t we just do that??!!!

]]> By: John from Down Under http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/the-entertainment-driven-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4527 John from Down Under Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:59:43 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=501#comment-4527 I’m catching up six months after the last post, having kind of a delayed reaction! Such well balanced observations! I’m a megachurch refugee who developed an allergic reaction to this type of ‘doing church’. It drained us and starved us. While we’re tucked away on the other side of the Pacific here, we take pride at importing American Christian ‘designer’ church models. Very ParisHiltonesque in nature; much notoriety and wild popularity, with the cerebral contributions of a filing cabinet. Practically devoid of substance. I’m catching up six months after the last post, having kind of a delayed reaction! Such well balanced observations!

I’m a megachurch refugee who developed an allergic reaction to this type of ‘doing church’. It drained us and starved us.

While we’re tucked away on the other side of the Pacific here, we take pride at importing American Christian ‘designer’ church models. Very ParisHiltonesque in nature; much notoriety and wild popularity, with the cerebral contributions of a filing cabinet. Practically devoid of substance.

]]> By: Vladimir http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/the-entertainment-driven-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4526 Vladimir Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:59:35 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=501#comment-4526 "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God." The 'general call' to all men indiscrimately to repent and believe the gospel message is a commandment to the militan Church. The 'effectual call' is not dependent upon any man and is the sole responsibility of the Holy Spirit. When Jesus told the parable that bid his servants to go into the highways and byways and bid them to come to his banquet feast (Kingdom), doubtless this is an admonition to evangelize the lost (unable to find the Way), ignorant, poor, blind, and naked. But, what has happened in modern evangelical circles is that the externally invited have been addressed in a worldly, unbiblical fashion - a contextualization that is unsupported biblically and traditionally. The invited/bidden/evangelized were first only permitted to stand in the nartex and listen to the sermon and worship service. This mode of action was and served as a guard for the members already baptized and catechized. Nowadays the influence is from without and not conversely. Hence the instrusion of the various unseemly elements into the church from without which the Scriptures themselves foretell. Michel, you are correct to observe that the shallow acceptance and adoption of these quick to be pleased and entertained individuals is a sad/ugly blot on the present day church at large. When God instituted His worship in the OT as well as the NT, He was quite particular and demanding in HOW HE HIMSELF would be worshipped. It is after all that it is with HIM that we have to do. Majesty. Holy. Merciful. God. Vladimir “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God.” The ‘general call’ to all men indiscrimately to repent and believe the gospel message is a commandment to the militan Church. The ‘effectual call’ is not dependent upon any man and is the sole responsibility of the Holy Spirit.

When Jesus told the parable that bid his servants to go into the highways and byways and bid them to come to his banquet feast (Kingdom), doubtless this is an admonition to evangelize the lost (unable to find the Way), ignorant, poor, blind, and naked.

But, what has happened in modern evangelical circles is that the externally invited have been addressed in a worldly, unbiblical fashion – a contextualization that is unsupported biblically and traditionally. The invited/bidden/evangelized were first only permitted to stand in the nartex and listen to the sermon and worship service. This mode of action was and served as a guard for the members already baptized and catechized.

Nowadays the influence is from without and not conversely. Hence the instrusion of the various unseemly elements into the church from without which the Scriptures themselves foretell.

Michel, you are correct to observe that the shallow acceptance and adoption of these quick to be pleased and entertained individuals is a sad/ugly blot on the present day church at large.

When God instituted His worship in the OT as well as the NT, He was quite particular and demanding in HOW HE HIMSELF would be worshipped. It is after all that it is with HIM that we have to do.

Majesty. Holy. Merciful. God.

Vladimir

]]> By: Solo http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/the-entertainment-driven-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4525 Solo Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:40:10 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=501#comment-4525 I think that christians need to realise the reason thay came to Christ is for soul salvation. The bile teaches that one should flee from the lust of the eyes the lust of the flesh and the pride of life for these things passeth away. However today it seems as though the church sends the message "Come to Christ and he will will make you great he will satisfy all your wordly prides and pleasures" And that my fellow christians is really sad. Remember "if you use wordly things to attract a man you will attract a wordly man " The same principles applies here I think that christians need to realise the reason thay came to Christ is for soul salvation. The bile teaches that one should flee from the lust of the eyes the lust of the flesh and the pride of life for these things passeth away. However today it seems as though the church sends the message “Come to Christ and he will will make you great he will satisfy all your wordly prides and pleasures”
And that my fellow christians is really sad.

Remember “if you use wordly things to attract a man you will attract a wordly man ” The same principles applies here

]]> By: minnowspeaks http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/the-entertainment-driven-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4524 minnowspeaks Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:06:22 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=501#comment-4524 CMP--Pretty gutsy such a harsh judgement after just one visit. Wonder where you got your certainty that God wants us to listen to what others say, think about what we say, and deal with us on an individual basis? Actually--don't answer that. I have no problems with you making your points that your kind of substance is vital to real faith but kindly do it without tearing apart another part of the body. Would hate to find out that God's idea of hell is seating you next to the entertainment crowd in heaven...humm... CMP–Pretty gutsy such a harsh judgement after just one visit. Wonder where you got your certainty that God wants us to listen to what others say, think about what we say, and deal with us on an individual basis? Actually–don’t answer that. I have no problems with you making your points that your kind of substance is vital to real faith but kindly do it without tearing apart another part of the body. Would hate to find out that God’s idea of hell is seating you next to the entertainment crowd in heaven…humm…

]]> By: Brent http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/the-entertainment-driven-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4523 Brent Thu, 14 Aug 2008 05:59:21 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=501#comment-4523 great post this one!! C Michael Patton I feel your pain! Whilst way south of the equator in Africa we don't subscribe as yet to the extreme excesses of some part of American culture, we are fast following that path. I recently went to a similar service and both the entertainment culture and the theology in general where worrying to say the least. The aim seems to be that everything is about usleaving the "show" feeling good. And anything that might work against that ideal is weeded out. So we entertain mindlessly and sing shallowly and preach motivationally because that is what people need (we'll that's what keeps 'em coming anyhow!) It is sad. I serve a 160 member church. We have confession and intercession every Sunday. We read the apostles creed when we have baptisms (at least one a month at the moment - we have lots of young families) we have biblical preaching based in the text, not motivational talks. We worship in the most run down building for a 10 mile radius. Our biggest problem is space as people are streaming in to worship Jesus. Worship is only worship when it is about Jesus. Anything else is called consumerism and it will never lead people to real worship or real salvation. my 2 cents :) great post this one!! C Michael Patton I feel your pain!

Whilst way south of the equator in Africa we don’t subscribe as yet to the extreme excesses of some part of American culture, we are fast following that path. I recently went to a similar service and both the entertainment culture and the theology in general where worrying to say the least.

The aim seems to be that everything is about usleaving the “show” feeling good. And anything that might work against that ideal is weeded out. So we entertain mindlessly and sing shallowly and preach motivationally because that is what people need (we’ll that’s what keeps ‘em coming anyhow!)

It is sad. I serve a 160 member church. We have confession and intercession every Sunday. We read the apostles creed when we have baptisms (at least one a month at the moment – we have lots of young families) we have biblical preaching based in the text, not motivational talks. We worship in the most run down building for a 10 mile radius.

Our biggest problem is space as people are streaming in to worship Jesus. Worship is only worship when it is about Jesus. Anything else is called consumerism and it will never lead people to real worship or real salvation.

my 2 cents :)

]]> By: C Michael Patton http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/the-entertainment-driven-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4522 C Michael Patton Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:12:08 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=501#comment-4522 lol lol

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