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	<title>Comments on: Converting from Evangelicalism</title>
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	<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/converting-from-evangelicalism/</link>
	<description>Making Theology Accessible</description>
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		<title>By: Counting Canada’s Christians - Part 2 - Anecdotally &#171; Notes from an Eclectic Christian</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/converting-from-evangelicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4455</link>
		<dc:creator>Counting Canada’s Christians - Part 2 - Anecdotally &#171; Notes from an Eclectic Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 13:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=478#comment-4455</guid>
		<description>[...] on the negative of a previous tradition was very well described by C. Michael Patton in his post Converting from Evangelicalism a few weeks ago.  He wrote: From what I have seen, converts are sometimes the most unable to see [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on the negative of a previous tradition was very well described by C. Michael Patton in his post Converting from Evangelicalism a few weeks ago.  He wrote: From what I have seen, converts are sometimes the most unable to see [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/converting-from-evangelicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4454</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=478#comment-4454</guid>
		<description>The point made is well taken... but...

What if one of these positions IS the truth? Is one looking through &quot;glasses&quot;, to then be overly-dismissive of counter arguments, when they are actually contrary to the truth?

Taken to extreme, we all need to  be agnostics and recognise the merits of all positions. But the religion doesn&#039;t grant us to sit on the fence. Some of the things your position allows you to fence sit concerning, may not be an option for those in other positions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point made is well taken&#8230; but&#8230;</p>
<p>What if one of these positions IS the truth? Is one looking through &#8220;glasses&#8221;, to then be overly-dismissive of counter arguments, when they are actually contrary to the truth?</p>
<p>Taken to extreme, we all need to  be agnostics and recognise the merits of all positions. But the religion doesn&#8217;t grant us to sit on the fence. Some of the things your position allows you to fence sit concerning, may not be an option for those in other positions.</p>
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		<title>By: Richie Batson</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/converting-from-evangelicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4453</link>
		<dc:creator>Richie Batson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=478#comment-4453</guid>
		<description>Michael,

Thank you for the topic--I needed to hear it.  I am currently &#039;working through&#039; Calvinism (I&#039;ve been a member of the Methodist church most of my life), and as a result I often have a desire to show my Arminian brothers and sisters the error of their ways.  Part of this desire is zealousness on my part in realizing just how much ‘bigger’ (sovereign) God is, but the ugly part is my own pride and arrogance.  Thanks again—this will certainly help to temper my thoughts and interactions.

P.S.  My wife and I have begun to look at TTP, and although our traditions are being challenged, we both welcome the opportunity to increase our understanding of God and His Word.  It has been a blessing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>Thank you for the topic&#8211;I needed to hear it.  I am currently &#8216;working through&#8217; Calvinism (I&#8217;ve been a member of the Methodist church most of my life), and as a result I often have a desire to show my Arminian brothers and sisters the error of their ways.  Part of this desire is zealousness on my part in realizing just how much ‘bigger’ (sovereign) God is, but the ugly part is my own pride and arrogance.  Thanks again—this will certainly help to temper my thoughts and interactions.</p>
<p>P.S.  My wife and I have begun to look at TTP, and although our traditions are being challenged, we both welcome the opportunity to increase our understanding of God and His Word.  It has been a blessing.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron C. Rathburn</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/converting-from-evangelicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4452</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron C. Rathburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 01:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=478#comment-4452</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s funny-

It&#039;s a great post, but I particularly liked your specific conversions from &quot;this&quot; to &quot;that.&quot;

Arminianism to Calvinism, but no mention of the opposite.
Converting AWAY from Dispensationalism, but not TO it.

Great post.  I like it.  I&#039;m pickin&#039; up what you&#039;re puttin&#039; down ;-).

-ACR</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s funny-</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a great post, but I particularly liked your specific conversions from &#8220;this&#8221; to &#8220;that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Arminianism to Calvinism, but no mention of the opposite.<br />
Converting AWAY from Dispensationalism, but not TO it.</p>
<p>Great post.  I like it.  I&#8217;m pickin&#8217; up what you&#8217;re puttin&#8217; down <img src='http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
<p>-ACR</p>
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		<title>By: Miguel Mesa</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/converting-from-evangelicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4451</link>
		<dc:creator>Miguel Mesa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=478#comment-4451</guid>
		<description>I have found that often what contributes to this staunch antonymous triumphalistic attitude is a failure to appreciate one&#039;s &#039;knowing&#039; and it&#039;s progressive journey.

I too have seen the brash and condescending attitudes of people who once were a &#039;them&#039; and are now an &#039;us&#039;. As an &#039;us&#039; their haughty arrogance exhibits zero humility and thankfulness to how God has created human beings.

If it is true that knowledge is built upon knowledge then everyone regardless of their position or place should exhibit humility. There is no &quot;arrival&quot; but only epistemic dependence. A chastened rationality is the best part handed to culture by postmodern thought.

At any given point we are all &#039;journeying&#039; (holistically) and it never ends....even in the eternal presence of God in the consummated new day.

Good post Michael.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have found that often what contributes to this staunch antonymous triumphalistic attitude is a failure to appreciate one&#8217;s &#8216;knowing&#8217; and it&#8217;s progressive journey.</p>
<p>I too have seen the brash and condescending attitudes of people who once were a &#8216;them&#8217; and are now an &#8216;us&#8217;. As an &#8216;us&#8217; their haughty arrogance exhibits zero humility and thankfulness to how God has created human beings.</p>
<p>If it is true that knowledge is built upon knowledge then everyone regardless of their position or place should exhibit humility. There is no &#8220;arrival&#8221; but only epistemic dependence. A chastened rationality is the best part handed to culture by postmodern thought.</p>
<p>At any given point we are all &#8216;journeying&#8217; (holistically) and it never ends&#8230;.even in the eternal presence of God in the consummated new day.</p>
<p>Good post Michael.</p>
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		<title>By: Francis Beckwith</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/converting-from-evangelicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4450</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis Beckwith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 18:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=478#comment-4450</guid>
		<description>Very well said, Michael.  Here&#039;s a few words from my forthcoming book (http://returntorome.com), &lt;i&gt;Return to Rome: Confessions of an Evangelical Catholic&lt;/i&gt;, forthcoming from Brazos Press in November (just in time for ETS):

&lt;blockquote&gt;Much of this book is a celebration of the Christianity that has shaped my life, intellectually and spiritually, both in its Protestant and Catholic forms. I do indeed explain how and why my mind changed, but with respect and admiration for the Evangelical Protestants who the Holy Spirit used to deepen my devotion to Christ, which I carry with gratitude into the Catholic Church....&lt;/blockquote&gt;


&lt;blockquote&gt;I am convinced that if not for the Holy Spirit working through the many gifted and devoted Christian scholars and teachers in Evangelical Protestantism, some of whom I have had the privilege to know, love and study under, my present faith would be significantly diminished. Their tenacious defense and practice of Christian orthodoxy is what has sustained and nourished so many of us who have found our way back to the Church of our youth.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well said, Michael.  Here&#8217;s a few words from my forthcoming book (<a href="http://returntorome.com" rel="nofollow">http://returntorome.com</a>), <i>Return to Rome: Confessions of an Evangelical Catholic</i>, forthcoming from Brazos Press in November (just in time for ETS):</p>
<blockquote><p>Much of this book is a celebration of the Christianity that has shaped my life, intellectually and spiritually, both in its Protestant and Catholic forms. I do indeed explain how and why my mind changed, but with respect and admiration for the Evangelical Protestants who the Holy Spirit used to deepen my devotion to Christ, which I carry with gratitude into the Catholic Church&#8230;.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>I am convinced that if not for the Holy Spirit working through the many gifted and devoted Christian scholars and teachers in Evangelical Protestantism, some of whom I have had the privilege to know, love and study under, my present faith would be significantly diminished. Their tenacious defense and practice of Christian orthodoxy is what has sustained and nourished so many of us who have found our way back to the Church of our youth.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: C Michael Patton</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/converting-from-evangelicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4449</link>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 16:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=478#comment-4449</guid>
		<description>Mark, thanks for the comment. The assumption on many of these conversations when people say, &quot;“You cannot see outside of your Evangelical tainted lenses&quot; is that those who say such don&#039;t wear any lenses, that somehow they see objectively.

Would these people claim to be postmodern? I am sure they would. That is the irony. One of the best realizations that postmodernism has brought us is that we all have lenses, but to claim superiority based upon this realization does not mean that the postmodern can see well enough to make such a judgment of epistemological integrity on others!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, thanks for the comment. The assumption on many of these conversations when people say, &#8220;“You cannot see outside of your Evangelical tainted lenses&#8221; is that those who say such don&#8217;t wear any lenses, that somehow they see objectively.</p>
<p>Would these people claim to be postmodern? I am sure they would. That is the irony. One of the best realizations that postmodernism has brought us is that we all have lenses, but to claim superiority based upon this realization does not mean that the postmodern can see well enough to make such a judgment of epistemological integrity on others!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Begemann</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/converting-from-evangelicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4448</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Begemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 16:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=478#comment-4448</guid>
		<description>“None. I am a postmodern. We are the only ones that don’t wear lenses.”

Anyone who says that obviously does not understand postmodernism and they certainly aren&#039;t (a) postmodern.  Did all three of your experiences with blatant self-contradiction involve people who used the word &quot;postmodern(ism)&quot;?  Very interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“None. I am a postmodern. We are the only ones that don’t wear lenses.”</p>
<p>Anyone who says that obviously does not understand postmodernism and they certainly aren&#8217;t (a) postmodern.  Did all three of your experiences with blatant self-contradiction involve people who used the word &#8220;postmodern(ism)&#8221;?  Very interesting.</p>
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