Comments on: Leaving (Christ)ianity – An Evangelical Epidemic http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/07/leaving-christianity-%e2%80%93-an-evangelical-epidemic/ Making Theology Accessible Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:15:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Kate http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/07/leaving-christianity-%e2%80%93-an-evangelical-epidemic/comment-page-1/#comment-4265 Kate Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:06:12 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=391#comment-4265 This girl sounds like me about five years ago. When you look to Christianity for answers and Christianity isn't giving any answers, you simply need to look elsewhere. It wasn't until I had been an evangelical unbeliever for a few years that I found someone who had actually thought about these issues. Before that, I was often damned to hell by evangelicals for even raising issues. Or else people would often assume I just needed a hug instead of answers. I'm not so sure that the whole issue is a spiritual formation or issue with how a person feels. Much of that, I believe, is based on personality (thinking or feeling oriented) and many people simply go where the facts lead. A church that refuses to engage with the issues of this world might as well move its congregation out onto a deserted island, because it isn't engaging with the world anyway. God gave us minds and knowledge of him. Sure, there are tons of things we don't know for sure, but we still have the responsibility of using our minds to praise him. This girl sounds like me about five years ago. When you look to Christianity for answers and Christianity isn’t giving any answers, you simply need to look elsewhere. It wasn’t until I had been an evangelical unbeliever for a few years that I found someone who had actually thought about these issues. Before that, I was often damned to hell by evangelicals for even raising issues. Or else people would often assume I just needed a hug instead of answers.

I’m not so sure that the whole issue is a spiritual formation or issue with how a person feels. Much of that, I believe, is based on personality (thinking or feeling oriented) and many people simply go where the facts lead. A church that refuses to engage with the issues of this world might as well move its congregation out onto a deserted island, because it isn’t engaging with the world anyway.

God gave us minds and knowledge of him. Sure, there are tons of things we don’t know for sure, but we still have the responsibility of using our minds to praise him.

]]> By: George Radman http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/07/leaving-christianity-%e2%80%93-an-evangelical-epidemic/comment-page-1/#comment-4264 George Radman Tue, 02 Sep 2008 01:31:02 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=391#comment-4264 There are all kinds of Bible "lessons" that teach good things, but there is little that connects the individual lessons. Too often people only see bits and pieces of the whole instead of learning the story the whole Bible tells - to get at the meaning of events and teachings that will tie them all together. In a 2002 book, God’s Big Picture – Tracing the storyline of the Bible, Vaughan Roberts describes himself as about to embark on a 2 year training course for the ministry. “I had been a committed Christian for six years, but my knowledge of the Bible, especially the Old Testament was very limited…I had already completed a theology degree at university, but it left me unable to find my way around the Bible. There had been detailed analysis of individual books and passages, but no-one had shown me how they fitted together.” He met someone who “was able to travel through the Bible with apparent ease…as if he was using a map…while I was left without any sense of direction.” His new friend introduced him to Gospel and Kingdom by Graeme Goldsworthy, “I had the map I needed. I was still very ignorant about much of the Bible, but the framework was in place.” So he wrote God’s Big Picture to help others understand how different parts of the Bible fit together. Sunday I met a worship leader whose life was transformed by this book. There are all kinds of Bible “lessons” that teach good things, but there is little that connects the individual lessons. Too often people only see bits and pieces of the whole instead of learning the story the whole Bible tells – to get at the meaning of events and teachings that will tie them all together. In a 2002 book, God’s Big Picture – Tracing the storyline of the Bible, Vaughan Roberts describes himself as about to embark on a 2 year training course for the ministry. “I had been a committed Christian for six years, but my knowledge of the Bible, especially the Old Testament was very limited…I had already completed a theology degree at university, but it left me unable to find my way around the Bible. There had been detailed analysis of individual books and passages, but no-one had shown me how they fitted together.” He met someone who “was able to travel through the Bible with apparent ease…as if he was using a map…while I was left without any sense of direction.” His new friend introduced him to Gospel and Kingdom by Graeme Goldsworthy, “I had the map I needed. I was still very ignorant about much of the Bible, but the framework was in place.” So he wrote God’s Big Picture to help others understand how different parts of the Bible fit together.
Sunday I met a worship leader whose life was transformed by this book.

]]> By: Leaving Christianity « The Contrarian Mormon http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/07/leaving-christianity-%e2%80%93-an-evangelical-epidemic/comment-page-1/#comment-4263 Leaving Christianity « The Contrarian Mormon Sat, 16 Aug 2008 02:54:29 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=391#comment-4263 [...] under: Uncategorized — mahonri @ 2:47 am I found this article the evangelical Christian Parchment & Pen blog. Many have noticed an epidemic of faithlessness in the last few years, which is infecting many [...] [...] under: Uncategorized — mahonri @ 2:47 am I found this article the evangelical Christian Parchment & Pen blog. Many have noticed an epidemic of faithlessness in the last few years, which is infecting many [...]

]]> By: austin http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/07/leaving-christianity-%e2%80%93-an-evangelical-epidemic/comment-page-1/#comment-4262 austin Tue, 12 Aug 2008 03:41:07 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=391#comment-4262 I was evangelical and left the evangelical church for the Catholic church. That journey to the catholic church began when I began to have doubts about all that I had been led to believe about church history & catholic beliefs. Honesty and fairness about those outside the fold is important. I was evangelical and left the evangelical church for the Catholic church. That journey to the catholic church began when I began to have doubts about all that I had been led to believe about church history & catholic beliefs. Honesty and fairness about those outside the fold is important.

]]> By: Cate http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/07/leaving-christianity-%e2%80%93-an-evangelical-epidemic/comment-page-1/#comment-4261 Cate Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:16:06 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=391#comment-4261 I grew up in a vibrant Christian home and went to a good Christian college. Despite my surroundings and upbringing, my time at college was a great test to my faith, and I left the church for a few years. Through good conversations with loving people and seminary, my faith is much stronger then the childhood version I had embraced. When I think about what went wrong, I am pretty sure it was because I was always given the right ideas but the wrong arguments for them. The truth was still the truth, but my reasons for believing it were no good and had to be reworked. As a Spiritual Director and teacher I've noticed how often this is the case in the lives of others as well. Late high school and college are a great time of personal formation. Too many of our churches are promoting a faith in Christ that can't stand the tests that come with personal maturity and intellectual development. No wonder our youth are leaving. Sometimes I fear that it is only the stupid or immature that will stay with the church if we don't learn how to teach our children well. Our methodology must become worthy of our beliefs. I grew up in a vibrant Christian home and went to a good Christian college. Despite my surroundings and upbringing, my time at college was a great test to my faith, and I left the church for a few years.

Through good conversations with loving people and seminary, my faith is much stronger then the childhood version I had embraced. When I think about what went wrong, I am pretty sure it was because I was always given the right ideas but the wrong arguments for them. The truth was still the truth, but my reasons for believing it were no good and had to be reworked.

As a Spiritual Director and teacher I’ve noticed how often this is the case in the lives of others as well. Late high school and college are a great time of personal formation. Too many of our churches are promoting a faith in Christ that can’t stand the tests that come with personal maturity and intellectual development. No wonder our youth are leaving.

Sometimes I fear that it is only the stupid or immature that will stay with the church if we don’t learn how to teach our children well. Our methodology must become worthy of our beliefs.

]]> By: Peter Burgers http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/07/leaving-christianity-%e2%80%93-an-evangelical-epidemic/comment-page-1/#comment-4260 Peter Burgers Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:58:55 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=391#comment-4260 Albert, Interesting post! What about your "watershed issue"... do you like to email with me about it? Do so at m.burgers7@kpnplanet.nl It was great to be here. Albert,

Interesting post! What about your “watershed issue”… do you like to email with me about it? Do so at m.burgers7@kpnplanet.nl
It was great to be here.

]]> By: Mere Orthodoxy » The Evangelical Epidemic http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/07/leaving-christianity-%e2%80%93-an-evangelical-epidemic/comment-page-1/#comment-4259 Mere Orthodoxy » The Evangelical Epidemic Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:01:08 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=391#comment-4259 [...] C Michael Patton carefully observes the (increasingly common) trend of people becoming doubtful, disillusioned, and eventually departing from Christ. [...] [...] C Michael Patton carefully observes the (increasingly common) trend of people becoming doubtful, disillusioned, and eventually departing from Christ. [...]

]]> By: Wes http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/07/leaving-christianity-%e2%80%93-an-evangelical-epidemic/comment-page-1/#comment-4258 Wes Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:00:19 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=391#comment-4258 Interesting post, raising important questions. I’m wondering, though, if a more foundational problem exists. Without minimizing the importance of addressing intellectual challenges, perhaps the issue is that Evangelicals have redefined what it means to be a Christian in the first place. Jesus is pretty clear about the impossibility of being his follower without the New Birth – and that those who are regenerated are kept by the work of the Holy Spirit. In the words of John, “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” (1 John 2:19) Perhaps in the pursuit of numbers, Evangelicalism has forgotten that – absent regeneration – people aren’t “Christians” regardless of their attendance or intellectual beliefs… and that those who are genuinely converted persevere in the faith. Interesting post, raising important questions. I’m wondering, though, if a more foundational problem exists. Without minimizing the importance of addressing intellectual challenges, perhaps the issue is that Evangelicals have redefined what it means to be a Christian in the first place. Jesus is pretty clear about the impossibility of being his follower without the New Birth – and that those who are regenerated are kept by the work of the Holy Spirit. In the words of John, “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” (1 John 2:19)

Perhaps in the pursuit of numbers, Evangelicalism has forgotten that – absent regeneration – people aren’t “Christians” regardless of their attendance or intellectual beliefs… and that those who are genuinely converted persevere in the faith.

]]> By: art http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/07/leaving-christianity-%e2%80%93-an-evangelical-epidemic/comment-page-1/#comment-4257 art Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:51:13 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=391#comment-4257 Peter, If you don't know what goes on at Evangelical seminaries, then it's probably best not to state that you think there is "not much about self discipline and making yourself a great Christian." That simply is not fair and is completely uncharitable. As a side note, no one can make themselves a "great" Christian. It is God who began a good work in us and will be faithful to complete it. Peter,

If you don’t know what goes on at Evangelical seminaries, then it’s probably best not to state that you think there is “not much about self discipline and making yourself a great Christian.” That simply is not fair and is completely uncharitable.

As a side note, no one can make themselves a “great” Christian. It is God who began a good work in us and will be faithful to complete it.

]]> By: Peter http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/07/leaving-christianity-%e2%80%93-an-evangelical-epidemic/comment-page-1/#comment-4256 Peter Wed, 06 Aug 2008 03:18:32 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/?p=391#comment-4256 The internet monk has a podcast saying that 90% or something of people attending an evengelical seminary have left the faith within 5 years. These are the people with access to the best of the best in evangelical thought. On the other hand, some of the greatest Christians in history have not been academic at all. I don't know what goes on at Evangelical seminaries, but something tells me there is a lot of theological naval gazing, and not much about self discipline and making yourself a great Christian. The internet monk has a podcast saying that 90% or something of people attending an evengelical seminary have left the faith within 5 years. These are the people with access to the best of the best in evangelical thought.

On the other hand, some of the greatest Christians in history have not been academic at all.

I don’t know what goes on at Evangelical seminaries, but something tells me there is a lot of theological naval gazing, and not much about self discipline and making yourself a great Christian.

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