I don’t really know much about him to be honest. Therefore, I can’t tell you much, but I do love all mankind because the Love of God abides in us who are born of the spirit of God.

John Calvin believed that babies must be baptized into faith and that the keeping of the sacraments were a must for salvation. Both teachings are heresy as salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone. No where in the New Testament did Jesus give instructions to put heretics to death. I know of no other teachings that have caused more division into the true church of Jesus Christ than these heretical teachings of one John Calvin. He was an unrepentant murderer of those who disagreed with him. He hated the Anabaptists more than he hated the Pope. Many God fearing, born again Christians were tortured, banished and put to death on John Calvins instructions. For true born again Christians, the fact that “Calvinism” is rooted in Catholicism, that should send up a big red flag. Lest I be accused of being Arminian, I am not. I am a blood bought, born again Christian and a Baptist by conviction. I will take no other title.

# John,

A very interesting man, Calvin, huh? Very different times he lived in too.

On the plus side for Calvin, here is a quote of Arminius’ esteem of Calvin:

“Next to the study of the Scriptures, I exhort my pupils to pursue Calvin’s commentaries, which I extol in loftier terms than Helmick himself (Helmick was a Dutch theologian); for I affirm that he excels beyond comparison in the interpretation of Scripture, and that his commentaries ought to be more highly valued than all that is handed down to us by the library of the fathers; so that I acknowledge him to have possessed above most others, as rather above all other men, what may be called an eminent gift of prophecy.”

Though I have seen that quote many times, I’ve not yet been able to track down an original source document containing it. Even Loraine Boettner quotes from a secondary source.

More interesting material about Calvin

Calvin drafted the criminal complaint against Servetus. It is not widely known that in addition to accusing Servetus of heresies regarding Jesus’ deity, Calvin also accused Servetus of heresy because Servetus condemned Calvin’s doctrine of infant baptism (on the grounds that it made an infant part of the New Covenant without faith). Servetus called Calvin’s idea a “doctrine of demons,” as it violated Sola Fide.

Calvin also accused Servetus of blasphemy for supposedly adding an annotation to a translation of Ptolemy’s Geography of 164 A.D. that said the promised land of Palestine was to “ancient travelers” not a very promising land, but rather was a desert. Calvin claimed this contradicted Moses’ statement in Exodus in 1250 B.C. that Palestine was “flowing with milk and honey.” The accusation was false, by the way, but that did not stop Calvin.

Despite Servetus’ several written petitions for counsel to be appointed, as was his right under the prevailing law of Geneva, it was ignored in light of Calvin’s written counter-motion to deny Servetus counsel. In addition, Servetus sought to appeal after the sentence was announced, as was his right under Geneva’s law. Calvin openly scoffed at the request, and Servetus’ request was ignored. Calvin also argued for the death penalty even though no such penalty was authorized under Geneva law.

I think that the heresy accusations against Servertus were a red herring and that Calvin betrayed his true motive when he said in his Defensio that had Servetus not been so abusive toward Calvin, then Calvin would have sought to spare Servetus’ life.

After propagating these injustices against Servetus (similarities to Jesus’ mock trial come to mind) and participating in the burning to death of Servetus, John Calvin wrote these words in his Defensio:

“Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt.”

Nine years after Servetus’ death, Calvin, unrepentant of his actions, wrote:

“And what crime was it of mine if our Council, at my exhortation, indeed, but in conformity with the opinion of several Churches, took vengeance on his execrable blasphemies? Let Baudouin abuse me as long as he will, provided that, by the judgment of Melanchthon, posterity owes me a debt of gratitude for having purged the Church of so pernicious a monster.”

Michael,

I have read it said somewhere by Calvinists that God somehow has two wills–I don’t exactly remember how it worked. Don’t think I ever really understood it. But it was something like the verse you quoted above was one will of God but the will of God that actually declares people reprbate is the one that is actually carried out. Again, that seems to me to make God sound like He has multiple personality disorder.

And I know at least some Calvinists would say that people somehow are still held responsible for their own actions and choices and are still justly punished for them. That thought seems to be in contradiction, however, to the quotes we have read above from both John Calvin and John Piper which seem to declare that God makes the choice in eternity for His own glory and people’s actions don’t have anything to do with it.

By the way, the verse you quoted is one of the ones I was specifically thinking of when I stated that the New Testament teaches that God loves people, wants them to be saved, and pleads with them to come to Him. Another verse that makes that point very strongly is II Corinthians 5:20,”Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

I don’t know if your depiction is completely accurate Joe. Calvin certainly wouldn’t say the elect are superior to the reprobate, perhaps just lucky.

Here’s an interesting verse I’d love to hear the Calvinist interpretation of.

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.” Matt. 23:37

Now it seems to me that if we understand things as Calvinists do and the only factor in determining salvation is God’s will then this verse doesn’t make sense. This verse seems to (at least to me) indicate that it is the will of God that Israel would repent and turn to him, this what God wants, but that it is Israel who is “unwilling” not God.

As I vaguely remember Calvin, he says that 1) human beings are hopelessly depraved; which seems odd for a creature created by God. And that 2) some of us are just vastly superior to others, “elect,” and destined to be saved. Which means no matter what other, non-elect people do, they can never be good, saved. They are never as good as Calvin, say.

Is this an accurate depiction of his theology? If so, Calvin is very deeply offensive.

I certainly agree, Cheryl. It seems to me to even hold such a point of view would be in direct opposition to Christ’s command to all of us to go and preach the gospel to all nations. Under the Calvinist point of view, what would be the point?

However, the real question that I have never gotten a satisfactory and full scriptural answer for is this : What have even been the reason Christ had to suffer and die such a horrible death on the cross in the first place, if all who were going to be saved and condemned, were already decided upon and there was no choice left at all in the matter?

I’ve heard every argument under the sun for Calvinism, and it still doesn’t ring true.

Obviously the whole Calvinistic understanding of things is great–if you are one of the few in this world that are of God’s elect. After all, then nothing at all that you can do will be able to keep you from being saved for all of eternity. (Remember Irresisible Grace and Perseverance of the Saints. You won’t be able to NOT come to Him and you will persevere until the end.)

However, if you are one of the many, many people that God has decreed from eternity past to be reprobate–to be wicked and to be punished eternally for it to bring glory to His name–your exisitence is too terrible to even comprehend.

I have been taught all of my life of the horrors of hell and that it is a place to be avoided at all costs. Those teachings are to be found very strongly in the New Testament.

I have also been taught that God loves people, wants them to be saved, and indeed pleads with them to be saved. And that we are to be and do likewise. That is also found in the New Testament.

Therefore, neither my mind and most assuredly not my heart, can begin to wrap itself around a theology that teaches that in contradiction to all of that, God indeed decrees from all of eternity that a great number of humanity are actually going to suffer that most horrible of fates in eternal hell because He has decreed it to be so and absolutely nothing can or will change that fate for them. That idea is so horrific to me that I can’t even begin to express what it does to me.

I have been told before on another Calvinist site that my thinking as described above just shows my unrenewed mind and rebellion against God’s ways. And I guess if Calvinism is ultimately proved to be true, that would be correct. But at this time there is simply no way I can begin to grasp these ideas or in any way want to grasp them. I think to do so, I would have to totally shut off my emotions towards the unsaved in order to survive.