Six Characteristics to Look for in a Seminary
1. Strong teaching of Scripture: This is of first importance. If the seminary does not graduate students who know the Bible and know it well, then they don’t emphasis its importance or do not have a competent faculty to do so. This usually involves the combined effort of three departments: Biblical Studies, New Testament, and Old Testament. The Biblical Studies department will take one though the entire Bible, book by book. You will not only read through the entirety of Scripture, but you will learn each books purpose, structure, genre characteristics, and argument. In the New and Old Testament departments you will learn how to do “exegesis.” Exegesis involves more detailed interpretive issues including a study of the text in the original languages (Greek for the New Testament, Hebrew for the Old Testament). Without these, can it even be called a seminary?Â
2. Balanced Theology Department: One of the biggest problems with many seminaries is that they don’t have balance in their presentation of theology. Their agenda is to make you a particular type of theologian. I don’t have too much of a problem with a seminary having a confession or reputation of holding to a particular tradition or sub-tradition (e.g. Reformed, Baptist, Dispensational). The problem arises when their passions for this tradition cause them to skew the theological landscape to their favor. This type of intellectual dishonesty has no place in the training of leaders. The theology department must be confident enough to give people a balanced perspective, representing all relevant views with the clarity of its adherents. By doing so the seminary creates an atmosphere where true learning and true conviction can take place. It also keeps its graduates from becoming unnecessarily divisive over non-essential issues, keeping the focus on the Gospel. The Holy Spirit will create the convictions for his purpose when truth is taught with balance. The seminary needs to trust him enough to do so. Â
3. Critical Evaluation by Professors: While professors need to be encouraging of students, they need to be such that will critique the students often and constructively. This will indeed hurt the pride of confident students (it did mine), but without it you will not take the study of God word as seriously as you would otherwise. Receiving a failing grade on a sloppy, ill-informed, or irresponsible paper on a parable is much better than a passing grade with an “encouraging” pat on the back. God’s word is too serious to let people by without careful, and often painful, examination.
4. A Pastoral Ministries Department with and Emphasis on Clear Communication: When people are trained in seminary, there are many things that they learn about leadership in the Pastoral Ministries Department. But nothing in leadership training is as important as teaching how to communicate. Whether it is the exposition of God’s word on Sunday morning or presenting the Gospel to a neighbor, people need to be trained to communicate in an effective manner. The seminary needs to have a department of pastoral ministries which is devoted to educating the seminarian on how to contextualize the message without sacrificing the content. There is a fine line here and some walk this line with grace. Unfortunately others do not.
5. Make Sure that not Everyone Gets a Degree: This is related to the third. If there is no one failing at the seminary, this would raise a red flag. It is not about giving people degrees, it is about qualifying people for ministry. Not everyone is fit for ministry in such a way, the seminary needs to have the courage to say so. If the seminary gives a degree to everyone who enters, I don’t think you should necessarily take this as a sign that the seminary has great professors or that the Holy Spirit is more illuminating to that campus, but that the seminary may be compromising in its training to keep itself funded. I understand this temptation, but this cannot be acceptable. Think about it this way: what if a graduate school in medicine graduated all its students because they did not want to discourage anyone or because they needed to keep the school funded? Would you go under the knife of a surgeon trained at such an institution?
6. They Must Have a Strong Internship/Residency Program: Training in theory is one thing, the real world is another. Part of the training of the seminarian must involve real life mentoring and oversight. Toward the end of the studies, the student must be required to get an evaluated and mentored internship (apprenticeship) in their field of ministry. This can help avoid many foolish mistakes that are often made when the seminary student is released into the “real world” of ministry thinking they are qualified because they have training with no experience. Part of the training must involve experience. Make sure the seminary puts a high emphasis on an internship or residency program.
7. They are technologically sound
8. Their graduates make a lot of money
9. They are cheap
10. They use the KJV only
11. They focus primarily on student relationships
How do you check these?
Study the seminary. Find out how detailed the doctrinal statement is. If it is too detailed, they may be unbalanced. If it has no detail, then they may have no reason to exist.
Talk to the professors. Ask for a syllabus. Find out if any of their students fail.
Ask for a philosophy of training. Do they have one? Why do they exist? Are they Gospel focused or issue focused?Â
Check the seminaries history. Does it have a good reputation?
Most importantly, look at its graduates. Is that how you want to look?
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- Six Characteristics to Look for in a Seminary
- A Press Release to Evangelicalism
- Top Twenty-three Questions for Virtual (Online) Churches
- The Removal of My Ordination
- The Ordination of Butch or “Modern Day Simony”
greek on 21 Mar 2008 at 6:54 am #
[...] [...]
End of Week round up | Byrnesys Blabberings on 21 Mar 2008 at 7:08 am #
[...] difficulty for the more famous song-writers which much of the Christian culture would love to exalt.Reclaiming the mind theology blog has posted six characteristics of a good seminary, the University of Aberdeen had almost none of these and I turned out OK (I think!). That being [...]
pgardella on 21 Mar 2008 at 9:10 am #
So given that, how do you rate your alma mater?
I am looking at schools now, and DTS is one of them.
Eric Stephens on 21 Mar 2008 at 10:15 am #
For those who are non-traditional students (working professionals) there are a myriad of other factors - as I have learned. Percentage of residency required, online training and such all come into play. Naturally they are secondary to the items mentioned above. While I’m only on my fourth course at Moody’s Grad School I can tell you that teaching students proper Biblical interpretation is key. If one messes up the interpretation all sorts of problems can ensue. Seminarian or not I think *all* Christians need to know how to exegete the text correctly.
Since I’m a remove student how would you rate Moody? I sense thus far its pretty middle-of-the-road regarding secondary/tertiary doctrinal issues and stays fairly centered on the essentials.
JohnT3 on 21 Mar 2008 at 10:24 am #
You forgot the all important reason for choosing a Seminary:
Did C Michael Patton go there?
Luke on 21 Mar 2008 at 3:31 pm #
I believe number 1 is by far the most important. The aspects within this category that I believe are the most important are the NT and OT departments. It is here where everything begins and ends in my mind. Without knowing the biblical text, knowing how to do exegesis, and knowing how to do biblical theology, one is almost worthless for any type of leadership in a church or parachurch setting.
The biblical studies departments at most seminaries are somewhat of a joke. They advertise that you will study and know all 66 books of the Bible, but this is far from the truth. It’s more of a false advertisement than it is a reality. The classes are survey-fashioned and you cover entire books that are 30-40 chapters long in less than an hour. Honestly, it’s a joke. However, taking an exegetical course on a particular book of the Bible with a NT or OT scholar is where one will truly know and learn the content and message of the book.
I agree with the other points that CMP has listed, and I made sure the institution I went to was balanced in all aspects before I chose it. However, making sure the institution has strong OT and NT departments where plenty of courses are required in each should be first and foremost for any Bible student. The church lacks and needs good exegetes and biblical theologians. We have too many administrators, preachers, and systematic theologians, and honestly, one should not perform the latter without being skilled on the former.
The other problem is that some institutions have excellent OT and NT departments, but their requirements in these departments are very small. So the program should also play a factor into what you choose. DTS is strong in the OT and NT departments and requires many courses in these departments, but they also require many courses that are superfluous and not very beneficial. In the process, some end up wasting much time and money. Denver Seminary has an excellent program where one can get all the training DTS gives you in these areas and it takes about half the time to finish. I wish I would have researched the latter more before I decided on coming to the former. I’m sure it will all work out and be beneficial in the long run though.
Brian Peterson on 21 Mar 2008 at 4:49 pm #
I think seminary training can be beneficial for an aspiring leader, but I do not believe it is necessary. It would depend on each individual’s personal circumstances whether I would advise them to pursue seminary education. There are many reasons why I have come to this conclusion. I’ll list a few here.
1) The bulk of seminary training appears to be the accruing knowledge. Other than being “able to teachâ€, the Scriptures do not make the acquiring of knowledge a top priority in the selection of leaders. Character is the top priority. The reason character is so important is because the flock will not follow a man who’s life is undisciplined, regardless of the knowledge he has. A man called of God will have the innate desire to learn as much as he can. Today, more than ever, there are tremendous resources that can buttress a man’s learning for free (internet). Why do we need to cram as much information as we can in a three year period (only for him to forget much of it two years later), when the focus should be gradual learning over a lifetime?
2) The making of a Christian leader is much different than the making of a doctor or lawyer. The education that a doctor or lawyer receives is time-tested and proven to be effective for the task at hand. If it was the same for a Christian leader, then pretty much every school would have nearly the EXACT same curriculum, for to deviate from this would be to jeopardize the education of the aspiring minister. But, of course, this is not the case. One school believes eschatology is important, the other doesn’t. One school says Hebrew should be taken along with Greek, while the other thinks Greek is sufficient. One school thinks studying Church history is important, while the other only has it as an elective. We are only studying what the school THINKS is important for preparation. Another school has a different perspective. I don’t think you find this in the fields of law and medicine.
3) It usually takes you out of the Church you are currently serving at and costs a ton of money. Additionally, many effective ministers throughout history were not formally trained (Spurgeon, Bunyan, Tozer, Moody, etc..)
Brian
Luke on 21 Mar 2008 at 5:58 pm #
I agree Brian. The reason I came was because I needed to be pushed and guided in the right direction. In the church where I was attending before coming to seminary this could not have happened. Also, though I have an intense desire to learn, I do not have enough discipline in and of myself to teach myself Greek, Hebrew, church history, etc. Having a professor who can guide me in the right direction and bust my chops helps me a great deal. It also helps that I’m paying 5 grand a semester!
You know what the sad thing is Brian? We honestly shouldn’t even have seminaries if the church were doing its job. It’s an absolute shame that we have to pay thousands of dollars to come and learn about the Trinity, hypostatic union, Greek, Hebrew, exegesis, inductive Bible study, general themes throughout Scripture, etc. Seminaries should not even exist, and even though I’m at one, I say that with the utmost dogmatism that I can. That’s actually one of the reasons that I am at seminary, because I have a heart for lay education…something the church has neglected and fallen short of in their elementary bullcrap Sunday school classes and 30 minute sermons every week. Oops, major soapbox, I better step off of it before I get out of control!
Chris Triplet on 22 Mar 2008 at 2:23 am #
I’m curious what you guys think of Tyndale Theological Seminary in Ft.Worth, TX?
Douglas K. Adu-Boahen on 22 Mar 2008 at 8:43 am #
Thanks for this guys. God willing, I hope to go to seminary one day and your little checklist will definitely be useful when I start looking.
Douglas [aged 17 1/4]
the study of hebrew on 22 Mar 2008 at 10:08 am #
[...] in Israel was launched earlier this month, with an address by Lenkowsky …www.jpost.comSix Characteristics to Look for in a Seminary 1. Strong teaching of Scripture: This is of first importance. If the seminary does not graduate [...]
Luke on 22 Mar 2008 at 11:08 pm #
Chris, I’ve never heard of Tyndale Seminary. I am in Dallas and find it odd that I haven’t heard of them. Any profs they have that I would be familiar with?
Douglas, go some place where you will be challenged theologically. For example, if you are a dyed in the wool Calvinist, don’t go to RTS, Covenant, or Westminster. Chances are, you will go there and agree with everything you hear and not be challenged in your beliefs very much. The top schools on my list before I decided to go to DTS were: Fuller Seminary, Denver Seminary, Asbury Seminary, and Dallas Seminary. I believe these all have wonderful things to offer and have many great professors. Conservative/liberal was not much of an issue with me, as I don’t think it should be much of one for anybody (it should play at least somewhat of a factor). For one reason, many conservative scholars have an agenda to protect historical conservative and traditional beliefs rather than to let the evidence guide them to the truth, and for another reason, I’m just not a big fan because I think Jesus was about the most flaming liberal man in his beliefs both theologically and politically of his time. The Pharisees were conservative, Jesus was certainly not. The old motto “there’s no such thing as too conservative” or “always lean on the conservative side” is a bunch of hogwash if you ask me. I say lean where the evidence leads you, and there certainly IS such a thing as too conservative. Maybe this can be CMP’s next blog post…conservative vs. liberal (or maybe he’s already done one…I don’t know?).
Chris Triplet on 23 Mar 2008 at 3:27 pm #
Seminary has become a business of profit. Most schools charge
too much. I like schools like Tyndale Theological Seminary in Ft. Worth who strive to keep the tuition low. It kinda of upsets me that people stick their nose up at this school because it had some accreditation issues in the past. The story above about the ex-Christian shows me that seminaries are not putting out
good Pastors but those seminaries are certainly making a nice
profit as evidenced by their ever expanding building programs.
I know that I went to DBU and their tuition rate was around $300 per credit hour and now it is over $500. Yes, I know DBU
isn’t a seminary but you get the point.
David Foster on 23 Mar 2008 at 6:37 pm #
I think it is a hasty generalization that because schools might make a profit it is in some way hurting their academic quality.
Secondly, you mean all schools in all places are graduating
ill prepared ministers? Again this is another hasty generalization. I never heard of Tyndale. Maybe that should tell you something about it because I have heard of Criswell College, DTS, DBU, Westminster, Denver Seminary, shall I go one.
I think $500 per credit hour is steep for undergrad school but
the last time I checked Criswell and DTS charged around $265 to $350 if I’m not mistaken. A school has to pay people and
keep the lights on. I don’t mind a school charging enough
to think toward the future and have a expansive vision for
theological education.
I would agree that schools need to be good stewards of their tuition money and not burden down students with a hefty lifelong debt.
David Foster on 23 Mar 2008 at 6:39 pm #
One more thing. I don’t think your comments really relate to the main article. It sounds more like a rant or gripe to me but
that is just one man’s perspective.
DF
Chris Triplet on 23 Mar 2008 at 10:20 pm #
David,
Yes, I agree that I made some sweeping generalizations and
shouldn’t have done that. Yes, I agree that I was ranting
and should have focused more on the content of the article.
I suppose that I wanted one of the points to include
a school that understands the need to stay affordable
and the debt a student will carry after they walk off
the platform with their Masters in theology.
Chris
Luke on 23 Mar 2008 at 11:33 pm #
I agree with you Chris. For some schools it is difficult to keep the tuition low because they have no denominational support (Re: non-Southern Baptist schools). However, the cost of some of these schools are simply outrageous. I am thankful that DTS is at least somewhat affordable, but even it continues to increased in price every year. It’s going up another $20 per credit hour again next year, and it did the same thing last year! Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think inflation is quite that high! They do say that half of our tuition is covered for by donors, but I have a hard time believing that.
The last thing I want to do is graduate with $20,000 worth of debt I have to pay off for the next 5-10 years of my life. It’s not like seminary is comparable to med school where we will be making 6-digits when we get out. Indeed, if most people work in the ministry after they get out (and some don’t b/c the pay isn’t high enough and they have to pay off loans), then chances are that we will be poor for the rest of our life. I will say that the professors really don’t get paid a whole lot of money, so I honestly have no idea where it’s going.
Name Withheld on 24 Mar 2008 at 2:30 pm #
Luke:
I’m a former DTS grad. I appreciate some of your comments, and am glad you haven’t fallen into the fundamentalist trap while you’ve been there.
I really appreciate your rips on the BE department. I don’t like to cuss, but what an F***in joke. Mail order PhD’s, fundamentalism, mickey-mouse assignments, totally unawareness of biblical scholarship–waste of time. If that’s seminary, DTS or any other, don’t waste your time or money.
Go to a good school with professors who not only earned a real PhD, but with professors who are aware of scholarship.
Until the requirements for the department are waived, I cannot encourage anyone to go to DTS.
Luke on 24 Mar 2008 at 3:02 pm #
Mr. Name Withheld(?),
I am optimistic and say most of the people here (at least basically all the people I hang around) have not fallen into the fundamentalist trap. This is especially so of the people who make their concentrations NT or OT studies. It’s kind of tough to do when there are such great scholars in those 2 departments.
I hear ya about the BE department. I will keep my comments to a minimum since I am still in school and have my name posted on here, but your statements line up with my way of thinking. I wouldn’t mind it if we only had to take 1 or 2 BE classes, but we have to take 6, so that makes it kind of difficult. Trust me, I could say much, much, much more, and would if we were corresponding via email, but I will leave it at that for now. The crowd I hang around share my concerns as well, so it’s not like I’m alone. One good thing that does come out of it is that I’m forced to read through the entirety of the Bible, so that’s definitely a good thing. If you want to talk more about it, then let me know and we can exchange email addresses. I’m trying to be careful on here about what I say (even though I’ve probably said too much already). In fact, I would like to discuss these issues more with you and hear more of your thoughts. I don’t know what the best way to exchange email addresses is, b/c we both probably feel uncomfortable doing it on here, but maybe CMP can hook us up or something and we can figure something out.
Chris Triplet on 24 Mar 2008 at 7:14 pm #
I thank God for the digital age because you can get a better theological education online now but without the degree.
Monergism.com has links to thousands of articles and mp3 files.
Yes, it is from a Calvinist perspective but their are other options out there.
Reformed seminary is putting many top quality classes on itunes and man is it fantastic. We are truly living in the Golden
of Christian information.
Ed Komoszewski on 25 Mar 2008 at 2:19 am #
Name Withheld:
Readers should know that you’ve withheld more than your identity; you’ve withheld important facts to consider when evaluating Dallas Seminary. As a graduate of the school, I know that it’s not perfect. But I also know that things are not nearly as black and white as you’ve painted them.
I spent 1996-2000 earning a ThM in New Testament Studies, and I don’t hesitate to suggest DTS to students eager to learn the science and art of exegesis. In fact, DTS is always my first recommendation for those who want to become competent handlers of the text.
Why? Because DTS has a proven track record when it comes to producing quality graduates and the faculty is stocked with industrial-strength exegetes. A school with professors holding earned doctorates from Cambridge, Oxford, Sheffield, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, and Columbia, among others, sounds like one that’s “aware of scholarship†to me. And the academic publications of faculty like Bock, Wallace, Fanning, Hoehner, Taylor, Chisholm, and Bingham, to name a few, is nothing to sneeze at.
Luke noted that he has to take 6 Bible Exposition courses to graduate from DTS (I think that the number is actually 5). Anyone who would forgo training under the aforementioned scholars because he was above taking English Bible courses would be missing out on the educational opportunity of a lifetime. And such a person would be kidding herself if she thought that every seminary out there doesn’t have a handful of courses that she’d rather not take.
In the end, your suggestion to steer clear of a 120-semester hour program based on 15 semester hours within it seems a bit short-sighted.
Ed Komoszewski on 25 Mar 2008 at 2:27 am #
Luke, there were a handful of classes at DTS that I didn’t want to take. So I seized the opportunity presented by the seminary to validate and/or test out of some courses (six of them, if I remember correctly) and free up space for other things. And when I did have a less-than-stellar course on my schedule, I made the most of it by working with the professor to design alternative assignments more in line with my educational goals. I didn’t want a bad attitude to keep me from learning things that were actually there to be learned.
Ed Komoszewski on 25 Mar 2008 at 2:59 am #
Luke, you hinted at doing a three-year MDiv rather than staying at DTS for four years to get the ThM. On this front, you might be interested in some wisdom that I got several years ago from John Sailhamer.
In the mid-90’s when I was trying to decide between DTS and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, I talked with John about my decision. Of course, John had taught at both DTS and TEDS, so he knew both schools well.
When John learned that I was primarily interested in biblical languages and exegesis, he told me that DTS was the place to go. He also said that in his several years of teaching, he noticed a marked difference between students who studied at seminary for four years as opposed to three. He said that there was something about that fourth year—studying in community under familiar professors—that accelerated the growth process for most students. When it came to honing the craft of exegesis, there was a new level of maturity waiting for those who hung around for a few more semesters.
I took John’s word for it and entered DTS. Four years later I decided that he was right!
Luke on 25 Mar 2008 at 11:37 am #
Hey Ed,
Thanks for the words of wisdom. The BE requirements are actually 7 courses (21 credit hours) with one of them BE101 (Bible study methods/hermeneutics). I took one online course while I lived in a different state before moving to Texas to get a head start on the program, and didn’t know anything about receiving advanced standing until I got here. Then I found out that you only have 1 year after matriculation to receive advanced standing, which meant I was crap out of luck. I tried to get them to extend it another year, but they only extended it 3 weeks. In that time, I studied my butt off to test out of 2 courses (Evangelism and Soteriology…I didn’t know about BE at the time) and received advanced standing for evangelism but not soteriology (even though I believe my exam was flawless, the grader who graded it…who was a student…was extremely strict and rigid and I missed the mark only by a few points, and they wouldn’t give it to me). Now I don’t have the opportunity to test out of any more.
The scholars in the OT and NT departments here are second to none…I don’t question that one bit. That is the main reason I came here (you don’t get any better than Bock, Wallace, Fanning, Hoehner, Chisholm, and Johnston).
As you said, I have tried to seize the opportunity in my BE classes. The professors have generally let me write my papers on topics and passages that I choose instead of the ones they assign…so that has been nice and beneficial. So thanks for the advice, but I’m already taking those steps to study things more in line with my educational goals! So I’m enjoying the assignments, it’s just the lectures that are difficult in these classes. I hear ya about the bad attitude thing, and am trying my best. It’s just with my educational goals, it’s tough to remain optimistic about taking 6 systematic classes, 2 preaching classes, 3 Christian education classes, and 7 BE classes. I feel my money and class time could best be utilized in areas I want to concentrate in (NT and OT studies). Some of these I don’t want to take will still be somewhat beneficial for me, but some I feel are a complete waste of time and money.
Also, I wasn’t speaking of an MDiv degree. DTS is by far superior to all other MDiv degrees at any institution in the country. I was speaking of a M.A. degree at Denver Seminary that lets you concentrate in OT or NT studies. I could have had just as many language, exegesis, and biblical theology classes than at DTS and it would have taken me a year to a year and a half shorter to graduate. I wouldn’t have had to take the systematic classes, expository preaching classes, BE classes, or Christian education classes. Granted, the quality of the NT and OT classes are probably a little better than Denver (though Denver has excellent scholars), but I would have been similarly equipped, got out of school sooner, and spent less money. If I decide to do a PhD, I would have gotten started a year and a half earlier as well. I feel like many of the classes at DTS are superfluous because I learn more about theology and the Bible through the NT and OT studies classes here than in the theology and BE classes combined…thus they’re superfluous.
Nevertheless, I am thankful and fortunate that I get to receive such a wonderful education, even though I have to take many classes I don’t want to in the process. I just wish DTS had a different degree program that was exclusively for NT or OT studies people that didn’t require all the Systematic, BE, and CE classes. I would have saved myself about $15,000 in the process, and would have been out of school much sooner. I totally agree with your assessment of DTS. They are by far the best at training for exegesis and the biblical languages, there are just many things one has to do that are superfluous in the process of receiving their ThM.
It’s somewhat the nature of seminary though. Since there aren’t many good undergrads, seminaries have t
Luke on 25 Mar 2008 at 11:44 am #
Sorry, long post…
Since there aren’t many good undergrads, seminaries have to train their masters students as though many of them have never had or studied these things in the process. Thus, there aren’t many 1 or 2 year degrees like traditional masters programs at universities b/c most students don’t study anything in undergrad pertinent to biblical or theological studies. It’s just at DTS, there are so many courses that I want to take (electives) that aren’t required, and so many that I don’t want to take that are required. That is why I am taking advantage of auditing exegetical and biblical theological courses, while banging out the courses I don’t want to take in the summer or winter sessions. I will be here for 4 years instead of 3, but at least I’m taking the classes I want to and receiving the education I need. I just wish they had much more flexibility in our electives and substituting courses that I want to take for other required courses that I don’t want to take and are in a different department.
Do you know if I can do this? Can I substitute an “Exegesis of Luke” and “Exegesis of Acts” class for a BE or ST class? Can I substitute a biblical theology class over the Law for a ST class? If so, then I will get on it. I just think they’re pretty strict about department requirements…which is really a shame, considering I can’t stand systematics or the BE courses. What say you?
Ed Komoszewski on 25 Mar 2008 at 10:00 pm #
Luke, thanks for fleshing things out a bit more.
Let me start by saying that I think Denver Seminary is a fine school. I’ve benefitted tremendously from the work of its faculty, especially Craig Blomberg and Doug Groothuis. That said, I’m not convinced that the MA in New Testament at Denver is better, even if it does eliminate coursework that you’d just as soon avoid. There are three reasons for this.
First, I’m more comfortable with the language requirements at DTS. I think that a graduate degree in New Testament requires more than two semesters of Hebrew (and more than one devoted to Hebrew grammar), as well as a course in advanced Greek grammar. As you know, DTS requires at least four semesters in Hebrew, and you can’t beat Fanning or Wallace when it comes to advanced Greek grammar.
Second, as highly touted as the faculty at Denver is, I think that the larger New Testament faculty at DTS can provide a better variety of viewpoints. The faculty members also complement one another well, providing students with a nice model of holistic exegesis. For example, Bock is one of the best synthesizers around, and Wallace has an uncanny knack for minutiae. Thus, students in the New Testament department can learn a lot about both “top down†and “bottom up†approaches to exegesis from world-class professors.
Related to this point, I think it’s worth noting that DTS has three New Testament scholars who are members of the prestigious Society for New Testament Studies. As you know, New Testament faculties are often measured by the number of members in this society. For what it’s worth, Denver has one SNTS scholar, TEDS has two, and Wheaton has two. Unless I’m mistaken, only Fuller, among evangelical schools, has more SNTS members than DTS with four. To give you an idea about non-evangelical schools, Princeton, Harvard, and Aberdeen also have three members on their respective faculties.
Finally, as I mentioned before, time is a crucial factor in developing as an exegete. If the 120 semester hours at DTS force you to draw your education out over four—or even more—years, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing (that is, provided you save exegetical courses for every semester that you’re in seminary). All of us were in a hurry to get through the ThM program when we were at DTS (it is, after all, a stressful lifestyle!), and most of us now long for those days again. Savor your time at DTS and stretch it out if that’s what’s needed to make things work financially. Years down the road I think that you’ll be glad that you did.
I may have some other thoughts to share that aren’t necessarily beneficial to the wider P&P audience. If you’d like, I can e-mail you and we can continue the discussion privately. Just let me know, Luke.
Ed Komoszewski on 25 Mar 2008 at 10:23 pm #
Luke, thanks for the clarification on the number of required Bible Exposition classes at DTS. I mentioned that there are five (rather than seven), since I was thinking of two of the courses as hybrids (including Old Testament Introduction and New Testament Introduction, respectively), rather than pure BE courses.
Luke on 25 Mar 2008 at 10:31 pm #
Ed,
I would love to continue the discussion via email. I love talking to former NT or OT studies students from DTS to glean from their insight and wisdom regarding courses, faculty, etc. I assume you can get my email addressed from CMP? Or maybe you have access to it? I don’t know, just email me and I would love to continue discussion.
I will say this, I absolutely agree on everything you have said regarding the NT faculty at DTS. In fact, the only thing that keeps me at the school is the NT and OT faculty. If it weren’t for the professors in these 2 departments, I would be out of here this weekend. They seek truth, not the conservative agenda or the protecting of systems. There are other professors scattered about that I think are phenomenal (Young, Bingham, Hannah), but as a whole you cannot beat the OT and NT departments no matter where you are. I currently have an NT studies concentration and am contemplating on switching to OT studies (I have taken quite a liken to Dr. Chisholm and took a winter course from him that changed my life!).
I will have to look at Denver’s MA program again to make sure what I’m saying is correct. But if I’m not mistaken they require as many languages in both OT and NT studies, as well as required exegetical courses (DTS only has 1 required, though I plan on taking 6 NT and 6 OT, as well as 1 or 2 biblical theology courses in each, as well as Adv. Greek Grammar from Wallace), as well as required biblical theology courses (one in each field…DTS has a big fat 0, which is a shame since we have to take stinkin 6 systematic courses, can I substitute these?). I’m just saying that considering my goals (languages, exegesis, and biblical theology), Denver would have saved me time and money. Granted, I agree with you and admit that I would probably not be as well equipped, but I would be equipped nonetheless.
That being said, I am very thankful for DTS. I had some very false preconceived notions about it that have been destroyed, which I am thankful for (I’m so glad I don’t hear classical dispensational stuff all the time, and the goal of the OT and NT departments is to be honest to the text and not conservative). I am okay financially, I just wish I could spend that money on more beneficial classes. Also, I don’t have to work at the moment (my wife works and we don’t have kids at the moment), and am able to concentrate on my studies, take a winter course here and there, and take summer courses. So even though I plan on taking so many exegetical courses, language courses, and biblical theology courses, it looks like I can still definitely get done in 4 years (Lord willing nothing changes!) I feel like I am receiving a quality education here, besides the 15 or so classes that I don’t want to take. Shoot me an email and we will continue this dialog. Thanks for interacting brother!
Luke
Phil on 26 Mar 2008 at 8:23 am #
Thanks for the advice and wisdom….
I graduated about two years ago from Indiana Wesleyan in Youth Ministries/Business Admin.
I am currently looking at some schools to start up my seminary (online to begin with) in the fall.
I am considering Fuller, Asbury, and Trinity right now
Alyssa B-D on 27 Mar 2008 at 12:35 pm #
A little sad to note that diversity of ethnicity and gender were not on the list. Multiple theological perspectives are important, but I would imagine that various perspectives from race and gender would also be important. If Dr. Tucker reads this, I would love to hear her take on diversity in a seminary’s faculty and the importance of varied perspectives and openness.
That said, this is a great list, Michael! I’m planning to attend seminary once we figure out how te whole having kids thing is going to go, and I will DEFINITELY look at this list.
It’s a great work you’re doing here.
Luke on 27 Mar 2008 at 2:44 pm #
Alyssa,
Great point! This should be of the utmost importance for any student, and it totally slipped my mind. That’s one of the downfalls of the institution I am at (not amongst the student body, but the faculty and board). The board is mainly a bunch of rich, powerful, white dudes, which makes me sad. The faculty is mainly white males, but there are a few females and people of different races. I would like to see much more though! Thanks so much!
britphil on 22 Apr 2008 at 8:37 am #
Michael
Here we go…time for me to take the plunge.
I think this is really useful, but please allow me to come from the angle of one who has spent my whole life on the receiving end so to speak, serving under the ministry of a number of different people who have come through a plethora of theological colleges,/seminaries. Sometimes it is helpful for you guys to put yourself in our shoes a little.
1. Strong teaching of Scripture:
I fully agree with the proviso that the balance is not skewed to produce future leaders who know the Bible TOO well and enjoy letting you know that on frequent occasions. A thorough knowledge of Scripture balanced with a godly humility in handling and applying that knowledge is powerful stuff.
2. “I don’t have too much of a problem with a seminary having a confession or reputation of holding to a particular tradition or sub-tradition (e.g. Reformed, Baptist, Dispensational). The problem arises when their passions for this tradition cause them to skew the theological landscape to their favor. This type of intellectual dishonesty has no place in the training of leaders. The theology department must be confident enough to give people a balanced perspective, representing all relevant views with the clarity of its adherents. ”
I agree 100%…and if I may be as bold as to say so Michael I think you seek to do this extremely admirably.
Sycophancy slot now over!!
3. “Critical Evaluation by Professors”
I agree 100%…but with the added proviso that seminary professors should always be open to learning fresh insight and truths from their students. I feel that this comes more naturally to some professors than others, given an earlier comment you made that irenic discourse is not too easy to come by in your profession!
Those who do the challenging must also occasionally be open to challenge. It has got to be a two-way street, especially as some students enter college having had considerable experience of the”real world” which their theology professor may have left some time ago!
4. “But nothing in leadership training is as important as teaching how to communicate
Agree 100%
“Whether it is the exposition of God’s word on a Sunday morning or presenting the Gospel to a neighbor, people need to be trained to communicate in an effective manner. The seminary needs to have a department of pastoral ministries which is devoted to educating the seminarian on how to contextualize the message without sacrificing the content. ”
I agree but I feel you need to go further than that. Surely equipping future pastors/teachers involves expositing and communicating God’s word and in an effective presentation of the gospel. People need to know how to communicate with people at a real and honest level, outside of the teaching/presenting the gospel mode. So much attention is given to these phases of the training, but precious little to the interpersonal qualities of the leaders you are training…some of which can leave a lot to be desired but which are rarely courageously tackled prior to a student tleaving seminary. Churches do not desererve to have such leaders foisted upon them, especially as it is the members who end up paying their wages!
5 “It is not about giving people degrees, it is about qualifying people for ministry”
Couldn’t agree with you more, hence my previous comment in 4 above. However, I would hope that amongst those who are failed for ministry are those who know the Word inside out but who have trouble either communicating it or relating to people on a natural, gracious, ordinary and humble level.
My guess is tough that you are far more likely to fail if you are not 100% hot on “knowing the Word” than if you are a poor communicator or unable to relate to people in the real world.
6. “Training in theory is one thing, the real world is another. Part of the training of the seminarian must involve real life mentoring and oversight”
“This can help avoid many foolish mistakes that are often made when the seminary student is released into the “real world” of ministry thinking they are qualified because they have training with no experience. Part of the training must involve experience. Make sure the seminary puts a high emphasis on an internship or residency program.”
Again I agree fully but I would go further. All internships should always include shadowing at last a couple of church members for a week or two in their work situation. This would help prospective students undrestand the difficulties people have in making important decisions in a Christlike manner under extreme pressure, and give them an insight as to how they need to ensure that there teaching is not just hermeneutically precise but can be applied in the hurly burly of everyday life. It is not just about “What does the Bible teach - but the pastor/teacher must be equipped to instruct their congregations on this teaching can and should be applied in everyday living. Knowing the Word and communicating it but not at least attempting people to get to grips with how to apply it is only job half done in my book.
I also disagree on 7. Leaders need to have some training in the use of technology if we are to present biblical truth in a way which is relevant and which is visual as well as verbal. People learn differently and have different learning styles and teachers/leaders who are one-dimensional in their approach are not adequately equipped to lead the church of God in my view. Practical realities are important to teach - such as “don’t have a panic attack and immediately blame the PC operator and anyone else who is at hand, if your wonderful graphics do not appear to accompany your world-changing sermon! ”
With regard to what a student shoud look for…spot on….especially the last point about looking at the graduates of a college before deciding to go there!