Here’s to You, Mr. Seeker-Sensitive Mega Church Guy!
Seeker-sensitive or not, some things are just too funny not to post. (To those who will get offended—lighten up! Take Michael Spencer’s advice and don’t take yourself so seriously because—as Chuck Swindoll says—nobody else does.)
HT: Damian M. Romano
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Sarah Scott on 12 Mar 2008 at 2:46 pm #
Perfect and hilarious! (I just wrote a post on this topic, so good timing!)
Daniel Eaton on 12 Mar 2008 at 5:59 pm #
OUCH! I think the “seeker sensitive” church gets a lot of bad press that is undeserved. *Lots* of churches do a lot of things for the wrong motives. Of course, I admit to being overly sensitive to this because I attend the church that I do *because* they have a coffee shop and lounge area. I don’t even drink coffee, but I require a physically reclining posiiton due to a medical problem and am physically unable to attend a traditional pew-driven church. As such, I am grateful that some churches try to meet people where they are at.
D.
Susan on 12 Mar 2008 at 6:15 pm #
Daniel E.
I don’t attend a pew-driven church, it’s more of an auditorium-seat-driven church……but the backs of the seats have become mighty uncomfortable. Can you actually watch the pastor preach from the coffee shop?!
Daniel Eaton on 12 Mar 2008 at 6:40 pm #
No, but the coffee shop area is only 25 yards or so from where I can park and get in a side door so I don’t have to walk very far, and I *can* hear the entire service over the PA system. It is important though that I can get out some times and get a “fellowship fix”. I can get great sound doctrine and training online (The Theology Program, for example), and can listen to whatever flavor of Christian music that I want on my MP3 player, but I hungered for interaction in person with other Christians. This provides it. Some minimize the importance of Christian love and fellowship and want to concentrate on doctrine. We should balance that though. And, unfortunately, it seems like the “seeker sensitive” churches are the only ones that readily welcome those that aren’t just like the members. Balancing the two is key. We need to be friendly to the seekers, but not at the expense of feel-good messages that don’t ultimately point those seekers to the Savior.
Lisa R on 12 Mar 2008 at 9:10 pm #
Thanks for the showing of the Purpose Driven Video
Daniel Eaton on 12 Mar 2008 at 9:24 pm #
I was asked (paid) to work the audio for a purpose-driven church seminar one time. They made two points that I thought were quite important. Most church visitors come to a church wanting to know if people there dress like they do and/or listen to the same styles of music. Based on what they see/hear, they have already tuned in or tuned out and decided whether to ever come back in the first 12 minutes. The pastor has not even preached yet, and the environment has either been a welcoming one or one that has shut them out. I think we can go too far in that direction and be too accepting of any kind of lifestyle and behavior, but if the church isn’t culturally relevant, the message isn’t going to reach the culture.
I’ve seen this on mission trips overseas. Missionaries trying to “do church” just the way we’ve done it in the US for the last century. It doesn’t work. And our culture today isn’t the same as it was decades and decades ago. I many ways I see a lot of the arguments against “seeker friendly” churches based more on tradition than theology. We need to recognize when our traditions get in the way and be willing to sacrifice our traditions for the benefit of getting the message out.
Damian Romano on 12 Mar 2008 at 10:55 pm #
Daniel, while I certainly agree that some churches avoid maneuvering in the direction of change due to their traditions. But what many of the critics of the seeker-friendly methodology aren’t that much bothered by the “way” church is done as much as the abandonment of key theological truths (and preaching, for that matter). For example, you state a statistic above about people making their decision on whether they will come back to church based on how people dress, etc. This is an example of ignoring a fundamental truth. Sir, God the Holy Spirit is the one who changes a persons heart to allow them to then search for God (or, makes them a God-seeker), not whether I dress in jeans or in a tunic. How we do church [in a sense] is irrelevant. Are we preaching the unadulterated Word of God to which the Holy Spirit accompanies and turns the heart of stone into a heart of flesh? That is the biggest grip.
Like, lets take Joel Osteen: he has gone on record saying he doesn’t mention “sin” because doesn’t want to hurt peoples feelings. Well, as I said in my very first sermon, The Good News without the Bad News is really no news at all (though I’m sure someone else has said that as well). People cannot come to Christ until they are told why they need to come to Christ. You can’t repent of something you’re not aware of. Until you come face to face in the presence of God through the power of His Word and get a glimpse of His holiness, one will never get saved. This is the problem with these churches, some of them are not doing this.
I’ll let my buddy R. C. Sproul speak more to this issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2zvqQ1w-Os
JohnT3 on 13 Mar 2008 at 9:24 am #
That was hillarious and at the same time sad because I know of so called churches that are identical to the one mentioned in the video.
If I may be a little serious, at the end of the video the anouncer says “You already have yor reward” unfortunately and sadly this kind of attitude is the same attitude that Ballam and Korah had. And things didn’t turn out so good for them.
That was before Christ died on the cross; how much more do you think it will be now that people like this trample under foot the death of the Son of God?
Daniel Eaton on 13 Mar 2008 at 10:43 am #
Damian, you’ll find no argument from me about Joel Osteen. My point though is that “seeker friendly” or “seeker sensitive” is not *synonymous* with bad doctrine. It *can* be, but it paints with much too broad a brush to suggest that pastors that serve coffee or don’t wear a three-piece suit are getting their rewards here.
The fact is that in a culture that is getting increasingly post-modern, the church is seen as more and more rigid and conservative. That it to be expected. We shouldn’t “compromise” with the world. But we need to make sure that what we are standing firm on are the essentials (TTP 101) and not make the church even more unacceptable to the culture by the addition of our centuries-old traditions. Where we *can* lighten up on our traditional three-hymns, a choir special during an offering, followed by a sermon with exactly one joke, one poem, and three topical points, we *should*. The MTV/SMS/YouTube generations don’t communicate that way any more. We are losing them. The traditional fundamentalist independent baptist church that I grew up in may as well be speaking a different language for all the relevance it has in today’s world. We should never compromise on the message, but the means of communication is something that we can’t leave stuck in the 19th century. That *method* of doing church is a non-essential.
Susan on 13 Mar 2008 at 11:18 am #
I think it’s important that we refrain from making sweeping judgements and assessments of ’seeker-sensitive’ churches. If the heart of the pastor is to reach people with the true message of the gospel, to see people pass from a state of being spiritually dead to one of being spiritually alive, then his heart is certainly in the right place. Lee Strobel came to know the Lord at such a church (Willow Creek). He definitely responded to their approach as a nonbeliever. Now Lee is a gifted evangelist who has been used by God to reach many for Christ.
Maybe we should consider what there is to affirm in these churches instead of always looking for what can be criticized. Maybe some of these churches are actually handling the gospel, and proclaiming it to the lost, better than our own churches. There should be unity among Christians, not infighting. This is a better testimony to the world. All churches have their faults and blind-spots….because all are inhabited by partially blind sinners!
Real Preachers of Genius « amazing grey city on 13 Mar 2008 at 12:06 pm #
[…] Real Preachers of Genius This is a spoof based on the Bud Light commercials “Real Men of Genius” {which are some of the funniest commercials out there}. This was too good not to post. If it hurts…well…Â Â Â Â {HT:CMP}Â […]
Susan on 13 Mar 2008 at 12:29 pm #
…..and, I will say that I was NOT making a statement about these videos (we need to be able to laugh at ourselves), just giving my thoughts about the generally negative, often dismissive attitudes of many evangelicals toward ALL ’seeker sensitive’ churches. My thinker started down this trail as I read the above posts.
Truth Unites... and Divides on 13 Mar 2008 at 2:01 pm #
I affirm Susan’s comments in #10.
Here’s one person’s motivation for his critique of the Seeker-Sensitive movement:
“[With Jesus] every encounter is not necessarily controlled by the lost person’s agenda.
… the sinner’s wants or “felt needs” don’t necessarily control the agenda.
There’s a world of difference between telling someone the Gospel and being driven by his agenda.
There is nothing wrong (and can be much wisdom) in taking the sinner’s wants as a launchpad, but you use it to go where he needs to go, not necessarily where he wants to go.
… the rich young ruler talks about “good”; well, Jesus has some thoughts about “good” for him to chew over. The woman wants water; Jesus will talk about her real thirst. And so on.
But in others, He just takes charge and does a 90-degree turn. “Nicodemus, that isn’t what we really need to be talking about at all. Here’s what you need to know:….”"
Basically, a church, whether it be seeker-sensitive, mainline liberal, or postmodern emerging, isn’t fulfilling it’s mandate when the general case is that:
The sheep are starving, while the goats are being entertained.
P.S. Well-Intentioned Pastors —> (possibly/probably) False Gospel —> False Converts
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Bill Craig Wannabe on 14 Mar 2008 at 5:54 am #
Say whatever you want. That was funny!
Who would’ve thought Christian’s would use a Budwesier commercial format/theme? Talk about thinking outside the box!
GB on 14 Mar 2008 at 9:26 am #
It’s my job to hangout with folks in what I call the “Jackass” Generation.
We are losing them…but it had nothing to do with the way we do church. We have a handful of churches here in town that the “furthest out” person would be comfortable attending…but still these friends of mine don’t attend.
They’ll say its because they feel judged when they go to church or that the church is full of hypocrites. All these statements may be true…but it still isn’t the reason that they don’t go.
They don’t go because they don’t want to and no amount of seeker friendliness is going to convince them to be in church. They want to sleep late & nurse their hangover. When they wake up…they want to watch TV from their couch…not a preacher with a sweet goatee & spikey hair.
So…what’s my point? People who want to go to church…”seekers”…are going to go to church. They’ll find the best option available for them & get plugged in. So why not make sure that every available option out there is focused on teaching the bible…not making people comfortable.
Just my thoughts.
Twenty Items of Interest (v.10) « Caffeinated Thoughts on 17 Mar 2008 at 1:45 pm #
[…] HT: C. Michael Patton […]