First Ever Emerging Study Bible? The Poverty and Justice Bible

http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/about/c-michael-patton on 02 Mar 2008
Books & Emerging Church

Comments (77)

Related Posts

• First Ever Emerging Study Bible? The Poverty and Justice Bible
• Emergers on Abortion: Where Do You Stand?
• Would the Real Emerger Please Stand Up? - Part 5 - Are You Emerging?
• Postmoderism and the Imago Dei
• Bono’s Charge Against American Evangelicalism

77 Responses to “First Ever Emerging Study Bible? The Poverty and Justice Bible”

1. Wes Ellis on 02 Mar 2008 at 8:52 pm #

   interesting thoughts. I, for one, am excited about this study bible. There are plenty of study-bibles out there which focus only on “Spirituality.” When I read scripture I cannot help but notice how central and important poverty- economic physical poverty- is to scripture.

2. terry on 02 Mar 2008 at 9:19 pm #

   Somehow this idea is not far from the idea of christian influence on society for the preservation of the unborn …what is good and just and righteous think about these things …

3. Damian Romano on 02 Mar 2008 at 9:51 pm #

   This is quite the interesting idea for a study bible; interesting in the negative. While certainly there are many references to the poverty and other social injustices, and that perhaps the church has neglected them to some degree, but that doesn’t mean that it calls for a study bible dedicated to such? And poverty and social injustice is most assuredly an outgrowth of the Christian faith, true religion expresses this. Redemption of fallen man through Christ to the glory of God is the central message! I must say that I’m really bothered with the statement, “We want the world to see that the Bible is relevant to life and not full of rules, finger-wagging and old-fashioned ideas.” If the Bible doesn’t seem relevant to the world, maybe that has something to do with the rejection of the holiness of God rather than outdated ideas. We also need trained Pastors who can exposit the Word properly and call sinners to repentance. What’s old fashion? Those outdated doctrines like redemption, election, justification, sanctification, glorification, propitiation? But I digress.

4. Eric on 02 Mar 2008 at 10:56 pm #

   THE focus of Scripture is Jesus Christ, not economic and physical poverty.

5. Mike on 02 Mar 2008 at 11:13 pm #

   “…but we do not see the alleviation of poverty and oppression as the ultimate victory until we see the alleviation of sin dealt with through the cross.”

   Poverty and oppression is a sin. Why differentiate them?

6. C Michael Patton on 02 Mar 2008 at 11:18 pm #

   Dealing with sin through the cross is the issue of personal redemption. The missio dei is not to bring an end to suffering in this life. This is the mis-missio promoted by health and wealth advocates. Spiritual redemption is dealing with sin from a relative standpoint before God so that we can act as his children by speading his love because we have experienced his grace. “By the mercies of God” we are motivated to change every aspect of our lives and fight against sin. Our mercies are not so much a fight against sin, but a reflection of God’s love to a sin infected world.

7. C Michael Patton on 02 Mar 2008 at 11:42 pm #

   Damian,

   “I must say that I’m really bothered with the statement, “We want the world to see that the Bible is relevant to life and not full of rules, finger-wagging and old-fashioned ideas.” If the Bible doesn’t seem relevant to the world, maybe that has something to do with the rejection of the holiness of God rather than outdated ideas.”

   Yes, well put. It seems like an irresponsible statement. Certianly there are those who don’t teach the Bible well, but this statement with the unqualified “old-fasioned ideas” need to be rethought. It is not the way to sell Bibles or a message.

8. Dave Z on 03 Mar 2008 at 12:41 am #

   Today I spoke on Loving God (you know… love God, love others - part two is next week). In my preparation, I was surprized to find a very constant theme - maybe best expressed in 1 John 5:3 - “This is love for God: to obey his commands.”

   So how can we effectively love God if we’re avoiding all the “rules” (commands) in Scripture?

   Of course as we study God’s commands, we run into all the ones about caring for other people.

   We just can’t pick and choose the parts we like. It may be true that to some extent, the Evangelical church has missed the injustice, oppression and poverty issues, but this makes me wonder if the pendulum is already swinging too far the other direction.

   And yes, the “old-fashioned” remark is over the line. Truth doesn’t change. But to give the publishers the benefit of the doubt, maybe they’re just trying to get past a public mis-conception of what the Bible has to say. I doubt that Warren thinks the Bible is out-of-date or irelevant, but they may be trying to reach those who do. Still, it makes me a little uncomfortable.

   Dave

9. bethyada on 03 Mar 2008 at 4:11 am #

   I was also struck by the imbalance idea with this comment The imbalance of global wealth, famine, water shortages, exploitation and corruption are all issues that invoke outrage

   What bugs me about this is the agenda that all should be the same. I sometimes think that some defence of the poor is thinly veiled envy of the rich. It is not about wealth redistribution, it is about ending poverty!

   Don’t get me wrong, those God has blessed with wealth would do well to use it to help the poor. But if an end to poverty means that many more people are wealthy, what should I care?

   To argue that everyone should have the same, even if that means the whole world lives is abject poverty, is just silly.

10. wwjd on 03 Mar 2008 at 5:09 am #

    Wouldn’t red (or perhaps pink) have been a more appropriate theme color choice than orange? ;^)

    I wonder how this Bible treats abortion (e.g., comments on Exodus 21:22-25, and Matthew 25:31ff by extension)?

11. JoanieD on 03 Mar 2008 at 7:55 am #

    If N.T. Wright is the president of the Bible Society that is putting out this this book, count me in as one person who would be interested in seeing it. I am halfway through N.T. Wright’s “Surprised by Hope” and if anyone doesn’t know Wright, please know that foremost above everything, he is dedicated to Jesus and to helping people to know and love Jesus and people. It appears the book is not a REWRITE of the Bible….it just HIGHLIGHTS passages that the Bible Society wants to point out so that folks realize God wants us to help the poor, EVEN THOUGH Jesus said we would have the poor with us always. (I need to click on the links Michael gave us to read more about it, though.)

    I would prefer not to spend the money on YET another Bible, though. (There are so many books I still want to read!) It would be nice if there was just a little booklet listing the 2000 passages the Bible Society would like to point out.

    Joanie D.

12. historic salve on 03 Mar 2008 at 8:10 am #

    Mother Theresa said something that speaks to this: “There is always the danger that we may just do the work for the sake of the work. This is where the respect and the love and the devotion come in - that we do it to God, to Christ, and that’s why we try to do it as beautifully as possible.”

    When the Gospels encourage us to help the poor, it is with a view to helping Christ through helping them. “Whatever you have done for the least of these my brothers, you have done for me…” It points to the way that God interacts with his creation while still being transcendent over it.

13. kolabok21 on 03 Mar 2008 at 10:21 am #

    the whole Bible, nothing but the whole Bible. when picking and chosing, you can make whatever you want to stand out. sounds like eisegesis

14. Jessica on 03 Mar 2008 at 11:35 am #

    Your thoughts are interesting and thought provoking. And there’s more information on The Poverty and the Justice Bible at http://www.povertyandjusticebible.org where you can keep the debate going on the web discussion forum.

15. JoanieD on 03 Mar 2008 at 11:35 am #

    http://www.biblija.net/biblija.cgi

    http://www.biblija.net/biblija.cgi?lang=en2

    The above are links to versions of the Bible. The top one includes Bibles in French, Spanish, Russian, Latin. (If you click on a link on that page, it tells you what the abbreviations mean for the various Bibles.) The second link above takes you to the place where you can see the Bible that The Poverty and Justice Bible is using, called the Contemporary English Version (CEV). I only looked at some sections from the Gospel of John so far. If you go to that webpage, I think there is a checkmark in the box for the Good News Bible. If you want to see the CEV, check that box off instead and then start searching the books of the Bible or passages.

    Joanie D.

16. JohnT3 on 03 Mar 2008 at 1:37 pm #

    1.There is more in the bible than just how we are to think, feel and act towards poverty and Justice.

    Once again “Unbalanced theology”. Let me offer a quote from a society pamphlet “All SCRIPTURE is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness”

    2.‘We want the world to see that the Bible is relevant to life and not full of rules, finger-wagging and old-fashioned ideas,’ says Bible Society Chief Executive James Catford.

    Because something is old fashioned doesn’t mean it isn’t realavent. I mean the idead that God provides salvation is an idea that is several millenia old.

17. Mike on 03 Mar 2008 at 1:42 pm #

    There may be more in the Bible than just issues of justice and poverty, but there is at least that. Modern western evangelicalism is just starting to discover this fact, so emphasizing this lost truth does not seem to me to be unbalanced. In fact, focusing our attention back on it is correcting an imbalance.

    It seems to me that what many of us are defending is not “balance” but the status quo.

18. C Michael Patton on 03 Mar 2008 at 2:00 pm #

    You could be right Mike. My perceptions may be reactionary.

19. Mike on 03 Mar 2008 at 2:16 pm #

    Well Michael, I have no doubt mine are too. I must admit I get frustrated… as opportunities to expand our view of the Gospel come along all too often we immediately get to work ‘proving” why they are wrong. I think we need to learn to hold these things loosely.

    Maybe what we’re really afraid of is not “heresy” but change.

20. C Michael Patton on 03 Mar 2008 at 2:22 pm #

    Mike,

    Maybe we are drowning when others think we are waving?

    

21. Mike on 03 Mar 2008 at 2:23 pm #

    You see… now you’re speaking my language!

22. Susan on 03 Mar 2008 at 3:08 pm #

    Michael, I so appreciate your comments here, follow-up posts included! RIGHT ON !! I suspect this study Bible will be considered obsolete in about five years anyway, when people come to the realization that we are no longer threatened by “global warming”, that there was a lot of hype over nothing.

23. Susan on 03 Mar 2008 at 4:04 pm #

    Michael , Mike, JoanieD, Wes, and all,

    This study Bible reflects a trend in the church which advocates that we can transform our culture through our active engagement in social issues, good deed doing and such. I would say that we should engage in our culture in those arenas, but not as an end. Our help given toward those in need should serve as a means to a higher end, that being, opening up doors to share the truly LIFE TRANSFORMING MESSAGE OF THE GOSPEL as we open our mouths to tell the lost about JESUS . If we leave out the gospel message, whereby people can be forgiven, made spiritually alive and transformed by the power of God Himself, our impact on culture will tend to be temporary and much more limited. Not to speak of the fact that we will miss out on seeing people come to Christ!

24. JoanieD on 03 Mar 2008 at 4:10 pm #

    I wonder how we are to take Jesus’ directive in Matthew 6:3-4 talking about how we give to the poor? Notice that the CEV version of the Bible seems to be using more a paraphrase than a word translation method. If we were to follow what Jesus is saying totally literally, then we would not tell people that we give to charities; Bono would not publicly say he supports the African agencies with his money; I would not ask that my name be added to the list of donors to the hospital fund. Maybe Jesus means that we are not to make public what we do in a way that brings us “acclaim” so that we don’t get puffed up with pride. What do you think? Here is the passage from three Bible versions:

    “But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” (NIV)

    “But when you do your giving, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your gift may be in secret. And your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you.” (NET)

    “When you give to the poor, don’t let anyone know about it. Then your gift will be given in secret. Your Father knows what is done in secret, and he will reward you.” (CEV)

    Joanie D.

25. Luke on 03 Mar 2008 at 4:30 pm #

    Susan said,

    “when people come to the realization that we are no longer threatened by “global warming”, that there was a lot of hype over nothing.”

    Come on Susan, you can’t be serious. That is such a standard right-wing remark that even right-wingers aren’t saying anymore because the evidence is so strong. Just accept it my friend, just accept it.

26. Vance on 03 Mar 2008 at 5:06 pm #

    OK, here is the way I see it. We have a woman’s study Bible, and all the comments are issues dealing with particular issues women face, their perspective, etc. We have a teen study Bible, in which things like peer pressure, purity, etc, become highlighted. We have a FIREMAN’S Bible!

    I just see this as yet another of the “specialty” study Bibles that focus on a particular angle and a particular theme.

    While I would have figured NT Wright to be involved with a more scholarly type of study Bible (he has contributed to the New Interpreter’s Commentary and has his own excellent set of popular commentaries as well), I do know that he is very involved in social/political issues as well, so it is not entirely surprising. I would still say, without hesitation, that he is one of the most important Christian thinkers and writers of our age.

27. Susan on 03 Mar 2008 at 5:34 pm #

    The comments in this study Bible about global warming seem so irresponsible. For one thing, it hasn’t been proven that global warming has been caused by humans. Those who have studied climate historically have shown that there have been warming and cooling trends long before industrialization.

    The study Bible note quoted says (in the context of global warming) : “If we truly love other people, we care about their lives; their prospects, their living conditions, their future. And that means changing our lives so as not to damage theirs,we make sacrifices for their sake.”

    WOW! Ya, we need to be responsible about the environment, but please! This certainly smacks of using the Bible to advance an agenda. I believe that God would be much more pleased if we made sacrifices of our time to help others directly and then share with them the great message of our hope as found in Jesus. This statement assumes that we are all doing something to cause global warming, and as it is tied to the Romans passage it is suggesting that we are being unloving to others because we are polluting (I’m not sure what they are saying I need to sacrifice !). What I see in scripture is that I’m to present MY BODY AS A LIVING AND HOLY SACRIFICE to serving Him, to obeying Him, to serving others, and to making disciples. These study notes are likely to influence readers of that Bible to gravitate toward a very lopsided, and even wrong, view of scripture and a skewed understanding of Jesus’ purpose in coming. I think it could easily cause readers to invest themselves in causes which are good, but not necessarily the primary purpose which we have been called. Our enemy loves to DISTRACT us from the importance of sharing the true, spoken gospel message. We need to be careful not to think that we are advancing the gospel and His kingdom simply by attending to social issues. Love the poor and oppressed, help them, be generous, and then share the gospel with them (don’t leave that out)!

28. Susan on 03 Mar 2008 at 5:42 pm #

    Luke,

    You might want to take a look at The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming (sorry, I don’t recall the author’s name, but I’ve heard him speak several times….he has definitely done his homework on this subject).

29. Thomas Twitchell on 03 Mar 2008 at 6:20 pm #

    Recent data, the globe has not warmed for the past nine years…

    This years low temperatures world wide wiped out all the global warming averages for the past several decades…

    The crisis mongers will manipulate the masses into frenZeitgeist. Create the boogie, convince the people to fund destroying the boogie, get powerful and rich…

    Such is the fascist strategy… the final solution… we can fix it, just give us the power of government…

    But, Jesus said there is no solution, the poor you will have with you always…

    You can manipulate the poor, turning them into democrats, mob rulers. But then, how do you control the mob? Thus the fate of every would be “progressive” world conquest movement, is that they eventually are destroyed by their own devices.

30. Vance on 03 Mar 2008 at 6:35 pm #

    But, Thomas (as this is sliding off-topic), has the cold weather this year restored the glaciers and ice caps, which are reduced more than at any time since they have been recording them (over 100 years, IIRC)?

    Personally, I sympathize with the sentiment that the warming is creating some panic and hype that might not be deserved. After all, the earth has gone through many much more dramatic shifts from entirely natural causes with the various ice ages. But, what is a bit different is that this one is happening faster and it is not entirely natural.

    I think we, as Christians, have been given the job, starting in Genesis 1 and 2, to be good stewards of this planet, for everyone’s sake. Remember, some eschatologies consider that it is THIS earth that we will be living on for 1,000 years before the “new heavens and new earth” are given to us.

31. Thomas Twitchell on 03 Mar 2008 at 7:01 pm #

    Well yes, the ice has recovered: And remember the Arctic Sea ice? The ice we were told so hysterically last fall had melted to its “lowest levels on record? Never mind that those records only date back as far as 1972 and that there is anthropological and geological evidence of much greater melts in the past.
    The ice is back.
    Gilles Langis, a senior forecaster with the Canadian Ice Service in Ottawa, says the Arctic winter has been so severe the ice has not only recovered, it is actually 10 to 20 cm thicker in many places than at this time last year.

    Or look here at Centurion and follow the links a check out the posts on the falacies of GW.

    Yes we have a mandate to care, so care! “But, what is a bit different is that this one is happening faster and it is not entirely natural.” This is pure propaganda. There is no evidence of man causation, period.

    But, that is not really the object of the post, is it? It is the falsification of the Gospel through the manipulation of the intended meaning of the texts. Classical revisionism. Classic emergent fundamentalist evangelicalism.

    As are all things emerging, they emerge from errors already seeded in the church. But since we cannot know the truth, everything is truth and nothing is, at once. There is only the all, and we are it…love is all ya need…love…love is all ya need…what is love…do not try bending the spoon that is impossible, just try to realize there is no spoon…it is you who bend…ya right!

    Just my “opinion”, and it is my opinion that creates reality…but then that is what tolerance is all about, eh?

32. JoanieD on 03 Mar 2008 at 7:41 pm #

    Vance said in #26 about N.T. Wright, “I would still say, without hesitation, that he is one of the most important Christian thinkers and writers of our age.” I agree, Vance. You and so many others here are way ahead of me in reading what so many writers mentioned on this blog have written, but from what I have been reading over the past four months or so by people I never heard of before (coming out of a Catholic and contemplative tradition) N.T. Wright is WAY up on my list of people to pay attention to.

    Joanie D.

33. Glenn E. Chatfield on 03 Mar 2008 at 7:43 pm #

    I question the one comment about poverty being a sin: can you find that in Scripture?

    Also, I found a real problem with the CEV in Genesis with a translation that is heretical. It says that God created “men and women” on day 6. If there was more than one man and one woman on day six, then what do we do with the doctrine of the Fall? Did the other men and women not sin and remain in Eden?

    So we have a junk translation being used to push a social gospel message that includes propaganda about global warming. Yep, it does indeed sound like a liberal Democrat Study Bible.

34. JoanieD on 03 Mar 2008 at 8:03 pm #

    Glenn, I don’t think poverty is a sin either.

    With your comment about the CEV’s version of Genesis…I compared Genesis 1:27 to the NIV and NET versions and see:

    So God created humans to be like himself; he made men and women. (CEV)

    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (NIV)

    God created humankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them, male and female he created them. (NET)

    So I was going to say that all three versions are talking about multiple people on Day 6. But I think I see what you mean. The CEV says “men and women.” The other two versions are referring to “them” so that could mean just a woman and a man. Is this what you mean?

    I would like to see Dan Wallace give us a little lesson in what the original words were in the ancient manuscripts that we translate as “own image.”

    Joanie D.

35. Glenn E. Chatfield on 03 Mar 2008 at 8:56 pm #

    All other versions I have (about two dozen English translations) have “man” or “mankind” or “humans”, etc. These all mean one man and one woman as further described in Genesis 2. And our whole theology is based on one original man, and one original woman being created from the man, the two being Adam and Eve. And sin entered the world because they ate of the fruit. Christ then becomes the second Adam, etc. But if there are “men and women” that means plural of each and that destroys all our theology from the git-go.

    I wrote the publishers of CEV many years ago about that problem and they gave me a convoluted reasoning why that was a proper translation. If what they say is true, then Christian teaching for 2000 years is in error, and I can’t buy that.

    Anytime you deal with a paraphrase (or so “dynamic” as to be a paraphrase), you will end up with a junk translation as far as I’m concerned. We don’t need them because they lead to all sorts of error.

36. Truth Unites... and Divides on 03 Mar 2008 at 10:12 pm #

    First Ever Emerging Study Bible? The Poverty and Justice Bible

    Q: What if “social justice” as defined by political and theological liberals contravenes God’s commandments in His Word?

    As Thomas Twitchell wrote: “But, that is not really the object of the post, is it? It is the falsification of the Gospel through the manipulation of the intended meaning of the texts. Classical revisionism. Classic emergent fundamentalist evangelicalism.”

    Case in point: Obama: Sermon on Mount Justifies Same-Sex Unions

    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200803/POL20080303b.html

    Political and Theological liberals insist that gay marriage is a social justice issue. Political and Theological conservatives just as insistently say that gay marriage is a perversion of the concept of social justice.

    Theological conservatives point to both OT and NT passages prohibiting same-sex behavior. And that same-sex behavior is clearly sin. Theological conservatives agree with Thomas Twitchell’s analysis that liberals manipulate the intended meaning of the text as an example of revisionism.

37. Truth Unites... and Divides on 03 Mar 2008 at 10:24 pm #

    First Ever Emerging Study Bible? The Poverty and Justice Bible

    Q: What if “social justice” as defined by political and theological liberals contravenes God’s commandments in His Word?

    As Thomas Twitchell wrote: “But, that is not really the object of the post, is it? It is the falsification of the Gospel through the manipulation of the intended meaning of the texts. Classical revisionism. Classic emergent fundamentalist evangelicalism.”

    Case in point: Obama: Sermon on Mount Justifies Same-Sex Unions

    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200803/POL20080303b.html

    Political and Theological liberals insist that gay marriage is a social justice issue. Political and Theological conservatives just as insistently say that gay marriage is a perversion of the concept of social justice.

    Theological conservatives point to both OT and NT passages prohibiting same-sex behavior. Theological conservatives agree with Thomas Twitchell’s analysis that liberals manipulate the intended meaning of the text as an example of revisionism.

38. Jeff Haynes on 03 Mar 2008 at 11:36 pm #

    This really takes the cake for me. What’s next, “The Politically
    Correct Study Bible”? We live in weird times.

    Tony Campolo should publish the “Red Letter only Bible”.

39. Jeff Haynes on 03 Mar 2008 at 11:40 pm #

    Oh, one more thing. How about a “Original Intent Study Bible”
    with the focus being on the original intent in the context.

    I’m burned out with the whole Life Application stuff.

40. Norman Jeune III on 04 Mar 2008 at 12:09 am #

    This looks, to me, like yet another marketing gimmic aimed at the increasing demographic of people who are interested in social issues. This is not to say that I am not concerned about social issues, but that I don’t think a Christian concern for social issues is derived from some new-found awareness of issues that have long been neglected.

    In fact, I would say that for a follower of Christ to be concerned about things like poverty is a natural outgrowth of one’s sanctification. Just go back to the basic tenets of the gospel: one’s justification and sanctification help us to see the spiritual and physical needs of others from Christ’s perspective.

    Then our social action is not for the sake of social action, but for the sake of serving others, in order that we might both embody the gospel and explain the gospel to those in need.

    If the church does not naturally see a need for social action as an expression of Christ’s love for the world, then perhaps the issues is not that we need more “resources” to raise awareness, but that we need to have our hearts changed by the gospel itself; and in that case, we don’t need the notes, its already in the scriptures themsevles.

41. bethyada on 04 Mar 2008 at 4:40 am #

    A couple of comments about global warming given that is where the thread has turned (though I do note the comments in the original post).

    I am a sceptic or denier, choose your label. But I would say that if anthropomorphic global warming is false (and people come to realise it is), it will have been a huge waste of Christian’s time getting behind it. (the list of things that Christian’s claim to be doing for God but are in fact working against him is unfortunately extensive). But even worse than that they would have made life even harder for the poor, doing the opposite of their intentions. The economic impact of the proposed solution will impact the poorer countries to a much greater extent than the richer countries.

    See A call to truth (pdf). Michael, if you are interested in the global warming debate, this is essential reading from the other evangelicals.

    Sincerity is not enough, our service for God should ideally come from talking with him and seeing what he would have us do. If we have uncertainty we would do best to concentrate on individual acts of love and mercy and be very cautious of insisting other Christians get involved in your favourite political cause.

42. bethyada on 04 Mar 2008 at 4:46 am #

    Luke Come on Susan, you can’t be serious. That is such a standard right-wing remark that even right-wingers aren’t saying anymore because the evidence is so strong. Just accept it my friend, just accept it.

    Luke, Susan may have good reason for her beliefs. You have offered her no reasoning as to why her belief is incorrect and mocked her for holding a minority view.

    You would do better to give evidence for why she is wrong, or at least link to a site that is relevant to refuting this position.

    And many people care little for being on the side of the majority, some just want to know the truth whether that be popular or unpopular.

43. Mark on 04 Mar 2008 at 6:13 am #

    “The Democrates Study Bible.”

    Mr. Patton, there’s no “e” at the end of democrat.
    You are now the recipient of the Dan Quale potatoe award.

44. JohnT3 on 04 Mar 2008 at 9:39 am #

    While being accused of being the reason a version like this is needed (Which in all honesty I found extremely offensive and had to take time to cool off) I am going to state something one more time here on this matter.

    To pick only poverty and justice is to marginalize the word of God. And is Unbalanced Theology.

    The Word of God has not changed it is an absolute constant and it HAS TO BE OR IT CAN NOT BE TRUSTED. Society and cluture will change over the years and the word of God will always be relevant.

    The reason is that culture and society can get caught up in a fad and run with it. The Church is not immune to this either. Think back to the “Prayer of Jabez” ferver that ran through the Christian community. I am not criticizing the verses that the Prayer of Jabez are found in I am criticizing the multi-million dollar marketing campaign that insued.

    God and his word stay constant and we need to rely on them and obey them. If we do I will guarantee that poverty and justice will not be ignored.

45. Mike on 04 Mar 2008 at 10:47 am #

    I exited this conversation when we got to global warming, but I must drop back in to say this one thing:

    The word of God is exactly that - the Word of God. It can do anything it wants and can still be trusted. To think otherwise is to admit that no further revelation is possible.

    This is God we’re talking about.

46. Glenn E. Chatfield on 04 Mar 2008 at 12:34 pm #

    A comment on the comment by JohnT3:

    I criticize the “Prayer of Jabez” from its foundational premise, which took a passage totally out of its context to make a point. The author of the book added a lot of his own ideas into the text and twisted it the way a cult member would do. (An excellent examination of the “Jabez” fad is Gary Gilley’s “I Just Wanted More Land”).

    It is this fundamental error which gives us many of the fluff books that make “Christian” book stores such minefields of false teachings, and this new “Study Bible” will be just another mine.

47. Mike on 04 Mar 2008 at 1:03 pm #

    If I may, I have a couple of questions for those who are alarmed at this particular study Bible. (Michael, this isn’t my blog, so feel free to delete this comment!)

    1. What is our obligation to the poor/oppressed/marginalized as taught by Scripture, and more specifically Jesus, and;

    2. Is the church today generally meeting that obligation?

48. Truth Unites... and Divides on 04 Mar 2008 at 3:08 pm #

    Is the church today generally meeting that obligation?

    Who judges? Should Bono be the judge?

49. Mike on 04 Mar 2008 at 3:17 pm #

    You be the judge. It’s a personal question.

50. Truth Unites... and Divides on 04 Mar 2008 at 4:32 pm #

    I don’t want to judge the Church. Bono can judge the Church if he wants to.

    Mike, do you want to judge the Church? What do you say?

51. Brian on 04 Mar 2008 at 4:41 pm #

    Here’s one place I’m having a problem with this entire distillation of the Bible into a special interest /narrow focus message…I have seen a large emphasis recently on Christians rushing headlong into finding solutions and having responses to the “major earth shattering issues” such as climate change, AIDS, African poverty, drug addiction etc. There is nothing at all wrong with being compassionate and looking to help, I believe we are called to be the hands of love in the world as the Church but…here’s where I’m really struggling, I am starting to see two distinct problems arising out of this. 1.) I’m seeing people shifting their entire focus away from the daily problems and issues of family and friends…it no longer matters that there are people in our midst (and even ourselves) struggling to get by, struggling with stress, addiction, relationship issues, etc. We’ve gone from micro to macro, and “sin” has shifted from issues which tear down our closest relationships and immediate community to something which we need to get on board to save the world from. 2.) Being part of the solution to “global” issues is in some circles becoming the new legalism. If you aren’t actively involved in activism, you’re commitment to “Christianity/Jesus/Kingdom” is questioned.

    I’m seeing a rebounding way too far away from embracing the whole truth to once again only picking up a portion of the Bible and making it the “entire message”…I also see that there is a trend to de-emphasize sin, lostness, God’s glory, the uniqueness of Christianity and instead an emphasis on a new universalism in which it no longer matters what you believe as long as your behaviour aligns with an attitude of loving everyone else completely without any sort of “judgement” (unless they are “religious”, then Jesus would be totally OK with you casting them into the outer darkness).

    I think the Gospel is way, way more radical than the renewed social gospel would have us believe.

52. Mike on 04 Mar 2008 at 5:03 pm #

    T.U & D.: My friend, you’ve already judged it, or at least a portion of it, by dismissing this emphasis on social justice. You discount the position, but won’t place yourself in the discussion for fear of “judging the church.” So we know what you’re against, which I guess is better than nothing.

    Brian, I’m right there with you… I think the gospel is way more radical than any of us imagine. The thing is, I don’t see this as a move from embracing a whole gospel to a narrow slice. It’s a confession that we’ve left large slices out of it, that we never were dealing with the whole gospel, and we need to repent and correct. And while I certainly wouldn’t want to take away from the issue of personal salvation, I think the “macro” aspect of the gospel is exactly what we’ve been missing.

53. Truth Unites... and Divides on 04 Mar 2008 at 5:38 pm #

    You’re utterly wrong Mike. I have not dismissed or discounted anything at all.

    What I am asking is “Who is going to judge the Church?”

54. Mike on 04 Mar 2008 at 7:30 pm #

    The same person who said, “Whatever you do for the least of these, you do for me.”

55. Lurker on 04 Mar 2008 at 9:24 pm #

    Mike, was that the entirety of His message/obligations given to the Church or is that the only part that counts? Are there any other obligations that hold equal weight or is this the heart of the Gospel?

56. Truth Unites... and Divides on 04 Mar 2008 at 9:44 pm #

    What I am asking is “Who is going to judge the Church?”

    Mike: The same person who said, “Whatever you do for the least of these, you do for me.”

    Good. Then let no one else judge.

57. Carol Jean on 04 Mar 2008 at 10:21 pm #

    Jeff Haynes said “Tony Campolo should publish the “Red Letter only Bible”.”

    Phyllis Tickle beat him to it with “The Words of Jesus: A Gospel of the Sayings of Our Lord”

    http://www.allthewordsofjesus.com/

    “…..The book began with a simple question from a colleague who asked Tickle, “Did you ever wonder what you would really find if you took out the duplications and triplications and connective tissue of the Gospels and stripped it all down again to just His words?” The question stunned her, and she admits, “I had never wondered such a thing…I was also fascinated by the potency of the Sayings format and drawn to the intellectual game and pleasure of trying to tease out just how and why that format works so well…….Rather than relying on a particular translation, Tickle brings her own scholarship and the texts of several translations to bear to recreate Jesus’ words.”

    Ugh.

58. You Are God! « A Rose by Any Other Name on 04 Mar 2008 at 11:33 pm #

    [...] Or, if you aren’t ready to puke yet. [...]

59. Mike on 05 Mar 2008 at 12:52 am #

    T, U & D - I give up.

    Lurker - I think you’re absolutely right! It is part… only part. (Of course, its the only spot in the NT where Jesus talks about judgment, but lets not quibble over that.)

    I guess this is the crux of the discussion. I think it’s part of the Gospel that we in the west have conveniently let drop from our collective memory. We’ve forgotten it. So if it takes a study Bible to remind us I say bring it on. If it takes people to focus heavily on that, I say bring it on. After all, we’re all part of the body, and we have different roles. It seems to me that some here have been saying that the eyes are wrong for not hearing, if you catch my drift.

60. Truth Unites... and Divides on 05 Mar 2008 at 3:13 am #

    Mike: The same person who said, “Whatever you do for the least of these, you do for me.”

    Mike, let’s take that verse and see how you might like it in a related context.

    Can you imagine the woman who cries out “Lord, Lord . . .” and Jesus looks at her and says “You killed me.”

    The woman would look a bit befuddled and reply, “When, Lord? I am a Christian.”

    “When I was in the womb, you supported killing me, for whatever you did to the least of my brothers, that you did unto me.”

61. Laura on 05 Mar 2008 at 3:42 am #

    Awesome! I’m getting me one of these!
    Thanks for the info.

62. Mike on 05 Mar 2008 at 10:00 am #

    T.U & D - Perhaps we can finish with the verse that is in the Bible before we move on to the ones that aren’t?

    Since you’re back, let me have a do-over on my last comment to you. It appears we’re both in agreement on who is going to judge the church. Since I wasn’t explicit enough in my last comment, let me lay it out clearly here:

    What criteria is he going to use for the judging?

63. Truth Unites... and Divides on 05 Mar 2008 at 12:21 pm #

    Mike: “T, U & D - I give up.”

    That’s part of the Gospel Mike! You got it!

    You give up, you deny yourself, you take up the cross, and you follow Jesus.

    Mike, I applaud you in giving up.

64. Mike on 05 Mar 2008 at 12:33 pm #

    Let me be perfectly clear. I give up trying to have meaningful dialogue with you.

    Have a good one.

65. Brendt on 06 Mar 2008 at 11:32 pm #

    Regardless of your views on the ideas presented in this Bible, isn’t it hideously eisegetical to build an entire study Bible around one issue or two issues, regardless of what they are?

66. From The Balcony on 07 Mar 2008 at 12:07 am #

    Mike - you asked - what is our obligation to the poor? For me the best answer is this -

    Jam 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their misfortune and to keep oneself unstained by the world……and

    1 John 3:17-18
    If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

    While this conversation is interesting, it is very frustrating for me. Instead of discussing it and going out and buying yet one more Bible, why don’t we just go out and DO it? We know what God says. Most of you in this forum have read your Bibles.

    Yet, I read from Bethyada the following words: ” I sometimes think that some defense of the poor is thinly veiled envy of the rich…… To argue that everyone should have the same, even if that means the whole world lives is abject poverty, is just silly.”

    Bethyada - Did you ever stop to think that perhaps God has gifted you with “enough” so that you can help take care of those who do not have “enough?”

    I would have to ask Bethyada - have you ever gone to Africa and seen the multitude of impoverished children dying from preventable causes? I have. It is heartbreaking. I’ve held my very own sponsored children in my arms. I’ve been in their homes…let’s see, their entire broken down home might fit in the space of your bathroom….

    Did you know that 30,000 children under the age of 5 died TODAY of preventable causes? And TOMORROW, 30,000 will die - and the next day - and the next day? This is why Bono speaks up - he has seen what I have seen.

    I volunteer for Compassion International because of what the Bible has taught me about caring for the orphans and widows of the world. In fact there are around 2000 verses on this subject in the Bible.

    JoanieD - some (not all) of those verses can be found at: http://www.compassion.com/child-advocacy/find-your-voice/what-the-bible-says/poverty/what-the-bible-says-about-poverty.htm

    So Michael - I’m giving out my website - and I challenge some of you to consider being a Bono and investing in the life of someone that matters to God. A real child with real needs - one that our Heavenly Father commanded us to care about.
    http://www.compassion.com/kathybergman

    When you help with their physical needs, you also help with their spiritual needs. Last year alone, 100,000 Compassion children around the world made 1st time decisions for the Lord. We now help 1 million children. How can you put a price on that?

    And I hope you won’t forget about the widows in the churches you attend. Have any of you said Happy Birthday to them or helped them when they had a need?

    So, while we can discuss this - and while we can even create a new Bible that talks about it, why can’t we spend the money we would have spent on this Bible on something much more important…..the life of a real human being in need. The need is so great.

    I’ll leave you with these words, written to me by one of our sponsored children. Amani lives in Tanzania - where the average monthly income is $7.00 a month. He said last Christmas, “I am so excited to see the great day of Christmas because there were many around me who did not live to see this day.”

    Yep - that’s wealth envy alright……..the people I met in Africa were not envious of me at all. In fact, I was envious of them. In their poverty, they were rich in the spirit of Christ. They are our brothers and sisters.

67. Mike on 07 Mar 2008 at 12:13 am #

    Kathy - Great comment. I think we don’t just do it because as the People of God, we’ve forgotten. Or we’ve chosen to forget. Hence the need for the Bible. It’ll make it that much harder to pretend we don’t know.

    I spent about 6 in Africa last year. I know exactly what you mean.

68. From The Balcony on 07 Mar 2008 at 12:21 am #

    Mike
    I can see that point (regarding another avenue to get people to see that Christianity isn’t all head knowledge) It’s also going and doing. I’m not condemning education because I’m a bit of a geek that way myself. But it’s time to get your hands dirty people. If you really believe what you read…..

    Where were you in Africa, Mike?

69. Mike on 07 Mar 2008 at 12:25 am #

    Two trips. First was a whirlwind through Ethiopia, Uganda and Rwanda, then a little over 3 weeks in Kenya. (Sorry, I meant to say 6 weeks in my previous comment.)

70. Truth Unites... and Divides on 07 Mar 2008 at 3:03 am #

    “For God’s Sake, Please Stop the Aid!”

    The Kenyan economics expert James Shikwati, 35, says that aid to Africa does more harm than good. The avid proponent of globalization spoke with SPIEGEL about the disastrous effects of Western development policy in Africa, corrupt rulers, and the tendency to overstate the AIDS problem.

    SPIEGEL: Mr. Shikwati, the G8 summit at Gleneagles is about to beef up the development aid for Africa…

    Shikwati: … for God’s sake, please just stop.

    SPIEGEL: Stop? The industrialized nations of the West want to eliminate hunger and poverty.

    Shikwati: Such intentions have been damaging our continent for the past 40 years. If the industrial nations really want to help the Africans, they should finally terminate this awful aid. The countries that have collected the most development aid are also the ones that are in the worst shape. Despite the billions that have poured in to Africa, the continent remains poor.

    Excerpt from: http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html

    ——————-

    “The worst thing the West can do to Africa is to give more foreign aid. For the most part, foreign aid is government to government. As such, it provides the financial resources that enable Africa’s grossly corrupt and incompetent regimes to buy military equipment, pay off cronies and continue to oppress their people. It also provides resources for the leaders to live lavishly and set up “retirement” accounts in foreign banks.”

    Excerpt from: http://www.creators.com/opinion/walter-williams/africa-a-tragic-continent.html

71. JoanieD on 07 Mar 2008 at 8:20 am #

    From the Balcony, I tried to go to the URLs you gave us and got this message, “You are logged in as the Default Guest User. You do not have rights to view the requested item. Please ensure that cookies are enabled in your browser and try again.”

    Joanie D.

72. From The Balcony on 07 Mar 2008 at 9:41 am #

    JoanieD - Let me type it again. Maybe I was logged in at the time I copied the link.
    http://www.compassion.com/kathybergman

    Otherwise, it might be the settings on your computer. This link should work. And thanks for checking it out. If this link doesn’t work, you can just use the main one - but should you choose to sponsor a child, tell them where you heard about it. Thanks for being interested. Honestly, it’s the most worthwhile thing I’ve ever done in my life. (And you can become a volunteer also - if you want to do this, post this and we can somehow connect so I can show you how…)

73. From The Balcony on 07 Mar 2008 at 9:50 am #

    Truth -
    What you say is extremely important. That’s the very reason Compassion only works through countries where we know the money is getting through. The political environment of a country determines whether we can be successful. But also, one way we are different is that we work through the local church with local people - and we require regular and frequent audits so we can be a ministry of integrity and say, ‘Your money got there.”

    It’s very important to check out any ministry you support…..and our financials are impeccable. You can see the financial report online…..and our charity rating - the highest one possible.

    Since we have been doing this 60 years, we understand the political volatility we work with. But I couldn’t disagree with you more in one way. You quoted, “The worst thing the West can do to Africa is to give more foreign aid.”

    While that is true for some organizations, it is not true for Compassion - our money gets to where it is needed. You can’t make a blanket statement like this. There is tremendous abuse so I understand why this could be said. But it is not true for all organizations. Each letter I receive from my child thanking me for specific amounts of US dollars is one way I know. The other way I know is because of my direct involvement.

    Not all ministries are created equal……God led me to one that actually can do what it says because of its knowledge base of so many entities: political climate, need, cultural, etc….

    To believe that we cannot help - thus we choose not to help –is really not a way to react. Action requires seeking out the organizations that do work. And their are some of them. I happen to have found one of them. But I would counsel anyone sending aid to check out where their money goes first.

    Thanks for that comment.

74. Truth Unites... and Divides on 07 Mar 2008 at 10:18 am #

    I sponsor a child through Compassion. She’s in Colombia.

    Pax.

75. From The Balcony on 07 Mar 2008 at 4:33 pm #

    That is great, Truth! Thank you for loving that child! (And I hope you write!) On my overseas trips, every child I meet has saved every letter from their sponsor. The other children will ask me, “Have you met my sponsor?” THey have such a true appreciation of their sponsors. Thanks so much

76. Random Acts of Linkage #51 : Subversive Influence on 08 Mar 2008 at 7:55 am #

    [...] Yet another study Bible: The Poverty and Justice Bible. Hmmm, a study Bible that by its title seems to take its content seriously. On the other hand, some people have concerns. [...]

77. Steve I. on 10 Mar 2008 at 1:05 pm #

    Michael,

    You said, “The Bible is first a book of soteriological history revealing our need and God’s mercy. Isn’t it?”

    I would answer your question with a “No!” The reason is because that would make God’s Word primarily about mankind, not God. I believe that God’s Word is His revelation to man about His charcter, His actions, and His eternal purpose in the unfolding of the history of His universe. The Bible reveals God’s character as both merciful and severe. Severity against sin, and mercy to those on whom He chooses to show mercy (see Ex. 34:19 and Romans 9:16). I believe this means that the display of the full range of God’s glory is the ultimate reason for the universe and the revelation of Himself in Scripture. Salvation (”mercy on whom [He] will show mercy”) is part of the means by which He has purposed to display that glory.

    As for this comment:
    “The game that God is in is one where there is the tension between the Christian’s efforts to bring in God’s kingdom through the reality and necessity of suffering in a sin-infected world. ”

    I find no Scripture that calls on the efforts of Christians to “bring in God’s Kingdom.” It is clear in the Bible that God will usher in His Kingdom at the return of Christ to earth at the end of this age. We are called to proclaim the gospel of His Kingdom so that those on whom He will show mercy will repent and believe in Him before that return.

Trackback URI | Comments RSS

Leave a Reply

Name (required)

Mail (hidden) (required)

Website

Notify me of followup comments via e-mail