Converse with Scholars: Defending Life - Francis Beckwith on Abortion

Here is the show from last night. Dr. Beckwith talked about the issue of abortion. The first half was concerning the history of the issue in the United States and where the issue currently stands. In the second half I ask Dr. Beckwith some difficult questions about how we know when life begins.

DuringÂ the question answer session Dr. Beckwith answers some objections and then challenges some leaders in the emerging church to understand that the issue of abortion is the most important social issue today.

Defending Life: The best book on the abortion issue that I have ever seen. As hard as it is to read, everyone needs to read this book sometime.

Converse with Scholars: Defending Life - Francis Beckwith on Abortion [86:26m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download (1544)

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12 Responses to “Converse with Scholars: Defending Life - Francis Beckwith on Abortion”

Luke on 29 Feb 2008 at 8:16 pm #

I agree that it is an extremely important social issue (and I am “emerging” if you want to label me!). However, I don’t think people understand why “emergers” are not part of the religious right movement and vote the Republican nominees straight down the line.

The religious right movement has proved to be very unsuccessful. Every election we cry against abortion and homosexuality, and after every election when real life begins we are left very disappointed. There have been 20 years worth of pro-life Republican presidents since Roe v. Wade, and they haven’t made a dent in the issue. I used to believe the Republican party was the “Christian” vote (which is a big myth by the way), but throughout my lifetime I have seen what hogwash that is. There were just as many abortions in 2005 as there were in 1994 when Bill Clinton was president, and Bush is too concerned with the war to fight abortion. I am certainly pro-life and would vote against abortion, but I have lost hope in the Republican party for this issue. Even Democrats are not “pro-abortion”, and many of them hate the practice of it. However, if the economy were better and women could afford healthcare and childcare, then abortions would go down drastically. What we basically do is preach to people to vote for Republicans b/c of one issue, while they are extremely weak and corrupt on many others…all the while they don’t do anything for that one issue we voted them in for!

As Christians, we are not called to change the world through the government anyways. Governments (kingdoms of the world) try to change societies by passing laws and using force. Christians (kingdom of God folk) are called to change societies by their love and through sacrificing themselves and serving others. I simply refuse to put my hope in a candidate of either party for anything. We can have opinions on who we vote for and why, but we should never label anybody or party as the “Christian” vote. Vote where your conscience leads you, not how your southern Baptist pastor tells you.
Alyssa on 01 Mar 2008 at 9:49 am #

I’m about to listen to the article, but I haven’t yet. I just read Luke’s comment and wanted to add my voice to a couple of things he said.

I have to agree with Luke in many ways.

First, in my opinion we (I DEFINITELY include myself, as I was formerly very active on the issue) failed. We rallied and fought and made our signs and gathered and spoke and we totally failed to stop or even affect abortions almost at all. None of our candidates stopped abortion or even seemed to discuss it once they were elected.

Now, if there’s a way I see abortion ending it’s through:
1. The decline of hopelessness and poverty and
2. The increase in respect for adoption and
3. An increase in respect for motherhood as a valid choice.

I used to participate in debates, etc. Now I’m planning an adoption. I used to judge people who had abortions, now I ask myself how I can show them that they have other options. I have absolutely not given up the fight.

For more food for thought, this is a summary of a study that found that the abortion rate, on a steady decline for years, has slowed it’s decline under the Bush administration:

“The Guttmacher study found that, while the abortion rate hasn’t increased under Bush, it also has declined more slowly under his presidency than under predecessor Bill Clinton, who unlike Bush favors abortion rights.

“Between 1992 and 1996, the annualized decline was 3.4 percent per year, while between 1996 and 2000, it was 1.2 percent per year,” the Guttmacher study read. “The annualized decline between 2000 and 2002 was 0.9 percent.”
terry on 01 Mar 2008 at 11:36 am #

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19444.htm
I guess as Christians we have a responsibility to understand the important issues of life weather they may seem controversial or not and to try and act in a way that is responsible …I there for want to share the link above and ask if maybe we have a responsibility as Christians to hand and promote this type of uncontroversial subject ….its easy some times to be complacent within our bubble world …. I do enjoy and am edified within this site by the topics and the responses from the Christians that share this space thanks to all ..
C Michael Patton on 01 Mar 2008 at 12:23 pm #

I am not sure if the abortion issue is as simple as saying Republicans or the religious right have not been able to do anything about it. While it has political ramification, it is primarily a social issue and a moral one.

Even if we are not able to do anything about it, does this mean that we don’t speak about it because it is too closely associated with a failed republican agenda.

My thoughts are that this issue, protecting those that are the most defenseless, is what we are about when it comes to the positive aspects of the social Gospel.

You all know my attitude and my sypathies toward rethinking things. But here is where what Beckwith said resonates with me. How hypocritical, imbalanced, and just plain silly is it for us to speak with 10 decimals about the environment, the poor, and aids victums, and speak with virtually no voice toward the dying unborn who are being scraped from their mother’s womb? Are we that mad at a republican agenda that we neglect one such as these? Is there any justification in this?
C Michael Patton on 01 Mar 2008 at 12:30 pm #

Let me ask you all this. Do you think slavery should have been abolished (or could have been) through an appeal to the mass public to do what is right while keeping it legal? Should we have kept slavery legal because for hundreds of years political activists were not able to do anything about it?

Do you think that it was right, in hindsight to have gone to war over such an issue?

If so, would you support such a war—a civil war—over abortion. If not, why?
Reclaiming the Mind Ministries on 01 Mar 2008 at 1:26 pm #

[...] BeckwithÂ was asked a question concerning theÂ emerging church and abortion. It occurred hereÂ at about 73 minutes into the broadcast (listen to it). Essentially the questionÂ surrounded the [...]
Francis Beckwith on 01 Mar 2008 at 2:17 pm #

Luke:

Between 1896 and the 1950s Plessy v. Ferguson was the law of the land. People fought for civil rights, and slowly chipped away at the segregation infrastructure. Someone in 1924 could have said the same thing about the civil rights movement as you are saying about prolifers and social conservatives. And they, like you, would have been wrong. For the way one measures “success” in shaping culture is not on how quickly one changes laws or mores. Rather, one should not look at it as a consequentialist calculus at all. What one should do is remain faithful to those first principles that are true, even if our fellow citizens continue to remain unconvinced of their veracity.

We have to remind ourselves that the day before the Berlin Wall fell, no one expected it. And yet, we now realize that the internal rot of the institutions that sustained that wall seemed destined for the demise that occurred. I have lived long enough to see a real shift in people’s view of abortion. When Roe came down the pike in 1973, abortion was offered as a good, a benefit, that ought to be embraced in order to rid the world of unwanted pregnancies and children. Now, as you argue, everyone (apparently) claims it’s real bad, though some argue that it ought to remain legal. That, in my judgment, is real progress.

Having said that, I think you too easily believe those, like Obama, who say that no one is “pro-abortion.” You don’t assess these claims with the same critical spirit you offer judgment of those to Obama’s right. (This is an unfortunate, undisciplined, instinct of young, “hip”, emergent Christians who seem to want so badly to find some way to distance themselves from the unhip, uncool “religious right,” whoever they may be). For example, Obama may not be “pro-abortion,” but he clearly does not believe that the unborn are full members of the human community with intrinsic dignity, for if he did he would want to incorporate this truth under the rubric of the 14th amendment. Come to think of it, Obama refused to vote on legislation that would have protected the survivors of abortion, children already born! So, it turns that Obama may not be pro-abortion, but he is a metaphysical segregationist, willing to sequester an entire class of human beings—the unborn and the newborn—to a realm in which they can be suffocated, burned, crushed, and dismembered without the protections of due process or the wider community. And if they happen to survive THAT, no one is required to render them aid.

Thus, the real poverty is not economic, but rather, the indigence of understanding the fundamental ground of who and what we are.
Steven Carr on 04 Mar 2008 at 2:02 am #

As always the question to be asked when discussing moral issues is ‘Would God prevent abortions from happening?’

There is a lesson for us all to be learned from the fact that God does not prevent abortion happening.
C. Barton on 04 Mar 2008 at 11:14 am #

To stand up and speak out against evil in a world that historically has been dominated by evil can be risky, and yet must be done.
Abortion is simply wrong. How “bad” it really is is sometimes made the impetus by which we speak, but this pseudointellectual economy of effort does not glorify the principles by which we claim to live.
We, as the living body of Christ on the earth, can make an effort to stop abortion through the abilities and spiritual devices given to the church. Instead of asking, “Would God stop abortion . . .”, let us ask, do we, as God’s body, want to do so?
Francis Beckwith: The Emerging Church & Abortion « faithmaps blog on 06 Mar 2008 at 2:37 am #

[...] Beckwith was asked a question concerning the emerging church and abortion. It occurred here at about 73 minutes into the broadcast (listen to it). Essentially the question surrounded the [...]
Truth Unites... and Divides on 06 Mar 2008 at 12:21 pm #

Francis Beckwith to Luke: “You donâ€™t assess these claims with the same critical spirit you offer judgment of those to Obamaâ€™s right. (This is an unfortunate, undisciplined, instinct of young, â€œhipâ€, emergent Christians who seem to want so badly to find some way to distance themselves from the unhip, uncool â€œreligious right,â€ whoever they may be).”

Confirm and echo Dr. Beckwith’s diagnosis. A diagnosis that I have long held, and I am happy that someone of Dr. Beckwith’s stature proffers the same diagnosis.

Actually, the diagnosis was easy. Very easy. The frustrating difficulty is the plethora of remedies that are tried, and how they are tried, and still found wanting. The second diagnosis that was my key understanding is that the patient does not want to be healed because he does not think he is sick. In fact, the patient thinks the Doctor is sick for having the gall to say that the patient is ailing!

Impasse.

(The comic side of me just bursts into fits of hilarity at the whole absurdity of the situation.)
Luke on 06 Mar 2008 at 10:49 pm #

Glad you found somebody with a brain who agrees with you.

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