Comments on: What happened to the twelve apostles? http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/ Making Theology Accessible Sat, 20 Mar 2010 01:50:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: C Michael Patton http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/comment-page-1/#comment-22689 C Michael Patton Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:46:08 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/01/10/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/#comment-22689 You bet you can. Thanks for asking. You bet you can. Thanks for asking.

]]> By: jacques naude http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/comment-page-1/#comment-22680 jacques naude Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:22:11 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/01/10/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/#comment-22680 Hi there, I was just wondering if it would be ok to copy your work and put it in a little booklet that me and my girlfriend are doing to evangelise france. I originally come from South Africa but am playing rugby in france and am absolutely shocked at how few people know god in europe and the fact that they actually mock him daily. Thank you so much for your work, you are playing a direct role in the great mission! god bless, Jacques Hi there,

I was just wondering if it would be ok to copy your work and put it in a little booklet that me and my girlfriend are doing to evangelise france. I originally come from South Africa but am playing rugby in france and am absolutely shocked at how few people know god in europe and the fact that they actually mock him daily. Thank you so much for your work, you are playing a direct role in the great mission!

god bless,

Jacques

]]> By: Gina http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/comment-page-1/#comment-3285 Gina Fri, 23 Oct 2009 06:06:04 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/01/10/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/#comment-3285 The problem with these logical arguments is that there's at least a 4th option: They all did believe what they saw, but they were all duped by a third party. Which I know is just as ridiculous - since you'd have to prove who is this third party and how were they able to execute such duplicity and with what realistic motive to boot in those times. I'm just putting that out there, since there's always a force to challenge every part of the redemption plan. The problem with these logical arguments is that there’s at least a 4th option: They all did believe what they saw, but they were all duped by a third party. Which I know is just as ridiculous – since you’d have to prove who is this third party and how were they able to execute such duplicity and with what realistic motive to boot in those times. I’m just putting that out there, since there’s always a force to challenge every part of the redemption plan.

]]> By: C Michael Patton http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/comment-page-1/#comment-3284 C Michael Patton Sat, 16 Aug 2008 01:44:18 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/01/10/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/#comment-3284 Thanks Ryan! Thanks Ryan!

]]> By: Ryan http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/comment-page-1/#comment-3283 Ryan Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:37:35 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/01/10/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/#comment-3283 Man, this is excellent work. May God bless you for putting together not just a good compilation of the facts, but with an unbiased view, as well. I thoroughly enjoyed it and I hope that you will continue to release more scholarly writings like this! Also, your response to objections was not just welcome, but embellished! I'm no authority on biblical history, but from my humble view, awesome job. Man, this is excellent work. May God bless you for putting together not just a good compilation of the facts, but with an unbiased view, as well. I thoroughly enjoyed it and I hope that you will continue to release more scholarly writings like this!

Also, your response to objections was not just welcome, but embellished! I’m no authority on biblical history, but from my humble view, awesome job.

]]> By: Glenn Shrom http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/comment-page-1/#comment-3282 Glenn Shrom Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:15:35 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/01/10/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/#comment-3282 I have been discussing this with Paul Tobin, who has a website with information relevant to the martyrdom of the disciples. ("Rejection of Pascal's Wager") He says that the most reliable accounts of the disciples' deaths (Peter and James?) involve charges of arson, which even if the disciples denied the charges, they were found guilty anyway, and were executed. What are the ratings on the accounts that say the disciples were executed for crimes against the state, instead of for their testimony about Christ, and instead of for their profession as followers of Christ? I have been discussing this with Paul Tobin, who has a website with information relevant to the martyrdom of the disciples. (“Rejection of Pascal’s Wager”)

He says that the most reliable accounts of the disciples’ deaths (Peter and James?) involve charges of arson, which even if the disciples denied the charges, they were found guilty anyway, and were executed.

What are the ratings on the accounts that say the disciples were executed for crimes against the state, instead of for their testimony about Christ, and instead of for their profession as followers of Christ?

]]> By: Paul http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/comment-page-1/#comment-3281 Paul Wed, 13 Aug 2008 02:17:37 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/01/10/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/#comment-3281 1. You would have to conclude that they died for a lie and knew it (unsustainable do to lack of any motive). 2. They were all delusional and crazy (but this would take more faith than any option since you would have to explain how they all had the same delusion and craziness, many being at different places and different times). 3. What they said was true. Christ did rise from the grave and is who He said He was.  or 4. None of this ever happened and it was all made up after the fact. I vote 4. 1. You would have to conclude that they died for a lie and knew it (unsustainable do to lack of any motive).
2. They were all delusional and crazy (but this would take more faith than any option since you would have to explain how they all had the same delusion and craziness, many being at different places and different times).
3. What they said was true. Christ did rise from the grave and is who He said He was. Â

or

4. None of this ever happened and it was all made up after the fact.

I vote 4.

]]> By: Quick Takes - 9/15/2007 at Ray Fowler .org http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/comment-page-1/#comment-3280 Quick Takes - 9/15/2007 at Ray Fowler .org Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:09:40 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/01/10/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/#comment-3280 [...] Michael Patton gives a comprehensive answer to the question, “What happened to the twelve apostles?” “They died because they proclaimed to have seen Christ die and then to have seen Him alive. [...] [...] Michael Patton gives a comprehensive answer to the question, “What happened to the twelve apostles?” “They died because they proclaimed to have seen Christ die and then to have seen Him alive. [...]

]]> By: C Michael Patton http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/comment-page-1/#comment-3278 C Michael Patton Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:54:03 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/01/10/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/#comment-3278 Joe, good comments, but that would take us in a different direction! :) Joe, good comments, but that would take us in a different direction! :)

]]> By: Joe Cameron http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/comment-page-1/#comment-3279 Joe Cameron Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:33:30 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/01/10/what-happened-to-the-twelve-apostles/#comment-3279 In light of His Resurrection and the several appearances of The Lord shortly thereafter,I believe that it is an incontrovertible fact that the early church expected a soon return of The Lord Jesus, and soon in the sense that man reckons time. Further, John quotes Jesus in Rev.22:20 "Yes, I am coming soon". BUT, Peter reminds his readers(2Peter3:8) : But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. Therefore in God's scheme of reckoning time, approximately only 1.974 days have elapsed since The Resurrection. I'm certain that not all believers agree with me on this issue, but if you don't, I would like to read your refutation of it. In light of His Resurrection and the several appearances of The Lord shortly thereafter,I believe that it is an incontrovertible fact that the early church expected a soon return of The Lord Jesus, and soon in the sense that man reckons time.
Further, John quotes Jesus in Rev.22:20 “Yes, I am coming soon”.
BUT, Peter reminds his readers(2Peter3:8) : But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Therefore in God’s scheme of reckoning time, approximately only 1.974 days have elapsed since The Resurrection.
I’m certain that not all believers agree with me on this issue, but if you don’t, I would like to read your refutation of it.

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