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	<title>Comments on: Theology Unplugged: &#8220;Marks of a False Church&#8221; (What is the &#8220;True&#8221; Church #5)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/</link>
	<description>Making Theology Accessible</description>
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		<title>By: A Lover of Truth/Souls of mankind</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3306</link>
		<dc:creator>A Lover of Truth/Souls of mankind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/09/10/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/#comment-3306</guid>
		<description>Mark, please observe the following,
By you saying only &quot;ONE&quot; Church, you are saying that any group that is not the &quot;ONE&quot; church, is a false (not a true) church.  There is a &quot;true&quot; dollar bill and also such a thing as a  &quot;false&quot; dollar bill (this is called counterfeiting).  Just because somebody would like to call a group &quot;X church&quot; or &quot;church X&quot; does not make it the church of Christ (the &quot;true&quot; [as opposed to &quot;false&quot;] church which continues in the apostles doctrine of the New Testament [John 20:21-23; Acts 2:42]).

Further, your comment,
&quot;But as believers we can know wheather we are Godâ€™s children through Holy Spirit.
Roman 8:16
The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are Godâ€™s children.&quot;

This verse is obviously MIRACULOUS (there has to be some &quot;proof&quot; for a witness), it does NOT apply to YOU (or any person on earth today).

The parallel passage is:
Joh 15:26  But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me:
Joh 15:27  and ye also bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Jesus was speaking with soon-to-be miraculously endowed apostles (see Acts 2-rest of the recorded New Testament).  The miracles would cease once the completed written form was finished (I Cor. 13:8-12).

Hope that helps</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-3306" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('3306', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-3306-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>Mark, please observe the following,<br />
By you saying only &#8220;ONE&#8221; Church, you are saying that any group that is not the &#8220;ONE&#8221; church, is a false (not a true) church.  There is a &#8220;true&#8221; dollar bill and also such a thing as a  &#8220;false&#8221; dollar bill (this is called counterfeiting).  Just because somebody would like to call a group &#8220;X church&#8221; or &#8220;church X&#8221; does not make it the church of Christ (the &#8220;true&#8221; [as opposed to "false"] church which continues in the apostles doctrine of the New Testament [John 20:21-23; Acts 2:42]).</p>
<p>Further, your comment,<br />
&#8220;But as believers we can know wheather we are Godâ€™s children through Holy Spirit.<br />
Roman 8:16<br />
The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are Godâ€™s children.&#8221;</p>
<p>This verse is obviously MIRACULOUS (there has to be some &#8220;proof&#8221; for a witness), it does NOT apply to YOU (or any person on earth today).</p>
<p>The parallel passage is:<br />
Joh 15:26  But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me:<br />
Joh 15:27  and ye also bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.</p>
<p>Jesus was speaking with soon-to-be miraculously endowed apostles (see Acts 2-rest of the recorded New Testament).  The miracles would cease once the completed written form was finished (I Cor. 13:8-12).</p>
<p>Hope that helps</p>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3305</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2007 16:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/09/10/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/#comment-3305</guid>
		<description>I believe there is no &quot;True&quot; church or &quot;False&quot; church,  only &quot;ONE&quot; Church.  I regard denominations as &quot;religion organizations&quot; not as churches.
There are &quot;True&quot; believers and &quot;False&quot; believers, and only &quot;GOD&quot; can judge who is true, who is false.
But as believers we can know wheather we are God&#039;s children through Holy Spirit.
Roman 8:16
The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are Godâ€™s children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-3305" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('3305', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-3305-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">1</span></p><p>I believe there is no &#8220;True&#8221; church or &#8220;False&#8221; church,  only &#8220;ONE&#8221; Church.  I regard denominations as &#8220;religion organizations&#8221; not as churches.<br />
There are &#8220;True&#8221; believers and &#8220;False&#8221; believers, and only &#8220;GOD&#8221; can judge who is true, who is false.<br />
But as believers we can know wheather we are God&#8217;s children through Holy Spirit.<br />
Roman 8:16<br />
The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are Godâ€™s children.</p>
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		<title>By: C Michael Patton</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3304</link>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/09/10/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/#comment-3304</guid>
		<description>Lets keep things on track.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-3304" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('3304', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-3304-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>Lets keep things on track.</p>
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		<title>By: A Lover of Truth/Souls of mankind</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3303</link>
		<dc:creator>A Lover of Truth/Souls of mankind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/09/10/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/#comment-3303</guid>
		<description>&quot;psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs&quot; implies that they are:
1.  Based upon the character and truth of divine revelation.
2. They are to &quot;teach and admonish&quot; (Col. 3:16).
3. There were inspired songs (revealed by those with divine inspiration which were based upon the New Testament revelation [I Cor. 14:15]).

There was no &quot;written&quot; complete New Testament in the 1st century until it was completely written (I Cor. 14:37; II Cor. 4:7).  Therefore their songs were based upon the prophetic, revealed truth of the &quot;apostles&#039; doctrine&quot; (with further implicit spiritual character of the &quot;psalms&quot;).

Any song sung by any man which &quot;could&quot; be acceptable to God must:

1. Have its basis in propositional revelation (Col. 3:16-17).
2. Be consistent with propositional revelation (God would not desire one to sing/teach/admonish with &quot;error&quot;, I Thess. 5:21; I John 4:1).

So therefore &quot;spiritual songs&quot; could be recorded by men, based upon propositional, revealed truth.

The same is also the case in prayer (God does not want one to pray or lead a prayer with words based upon false doctrine, rather his prayer must be based upon revealed truth).

Hope that helps</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-3303" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('3303', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-3303-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>&#8220;psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs&#8221; implies that they are:<br />
1.  Based upon the character and truth of divine revelation.<br />
2. They are to &#8220;teach and admonish&#8221; (Col. 3:16).<br />
3. There were inspired songs (revealed by those with divine inspiration which were based upon the New Testament revelation [I Cor. 14:15]).</p>
<p>There was no &#8220;written&#8221; complete New Testament in the 1st century until it was completely written (I Cor. 14:37; II Cor. 4:7).  Therefore their songs were based upon the prophetic, revealed truth of the &#8220;apostles&#8217; doctrine&#8221; (with further implicit spiritual character of the &#8220;psalms&#8221;).</p>
<p>Any song sung by any man which &#8220;could&#8221; be acceptable to God must:</p>
<p>1. Have its basis in propositional revelation (Col. 3:16-17).<br />
2. Be consistent with propositional revelation (God would not desire one to sing/teach/admonish with &#8220;error&#8221;, I Thess. 5:21; I John 4:1).</p>
<p>So therefore &#8220;spiritual songs&#8221; could be recorded by men, based upon propositional, revealed truth.</p>
<p>The same is also the case in prayer (God does not want one to pray or lead a prayer with words based upon false doctrine, rather his prayer must be based upon revealed truth).</p>
<p>Hope that helps</p>
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		<title>By: Paul M</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3302</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 03:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/09/10/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/#comment-3302</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I meant singing any songs, etc. written after Eph./Col.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-3302" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('3302', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-3302-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>Sorry, I meant singing any songs, etc. written after Eph./Col.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul M</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3301</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 03:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/09/10/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/#comment-3301</guid>
		<description>lover:, so by this logic, wouldn&#039;t singing anything except psalms,
hymns or spiritual song written after the writting of Eph./Col. be
adding to the apostle&#039;s instructions?

What about any written inbetween those two books?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-3301" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('3301', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-3301-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>lover:, so by this logic, wouldn&#8217;t singing anything except psalms,<br />
hymns or spiritual song written after the writting of Eph./Col. be<br />
adding to the apostle&#8217;s instructions?</p>
<p>What about any written inbetween those two books?</p>
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		<title>By: chrismw</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3300</link>
		<dc:creator>chrismw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/09/10/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/#comment-3300</guid>
		<description>the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother

Philemon 7</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-3300" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('3300', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-3300-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother</p>
<p>Philemon 7</p>
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		<title>By: A Lover of Truth/Souls of mankind</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3299</link>
		<dc:creator>A Lover of Truth/Souls of mankind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/09/10/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/#comment-3299</guid>
		<description>Acts, I qualified my term of Bible (Old and New Testament Scriptures, II Tim. 3:16-17; II Pet. 3:15-18).

The Hebrew word &quot;sefer&quot; AND the Greek word &quot;biblos&quot; (from which our translation of the word &quot;book&quot;/Bible originate) ARE found in the Bible.

So that was a mis-premised point off the bat :)

Mar 16:15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
Mar 16:16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.

Act 2:41  They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42  And they continued stedfastly in the apostles&#039; teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and the prayers.

Eph 2:8  for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9  not of works, that no man should glory.
Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

1Jn 1:6  If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7  but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
2Jn 1:9  Whosoever goeth onward and abideth not in the teaching of Christ, hath not God: he that abideth in the teaching, the same hath both the Father and the Son.

Sounds like &quot;Biblical&quot; salvation if I ever heard it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-3299" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('3299', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-3299-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>Acts, I qualified my term of Bible (Old and New Testament Scriptures, II Tim. 3:16-17; II Pet. 3:15-18).</p>
<p>The Hebrew word &#8220;sefer&#8221; AND the Greek word &#8220;biblos&#8221; (from which our translation of the word &#8220;book&#8221;/Bible originate) ARE found in the Bible.</p>
<p>So that was a mis-premised point off the bat <img src='http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Mar 16:15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.<br />
Mar 16:16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.</p>
<p>Act 2:41  They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls.<br />
Act 2:42  And they continued stedfastly in the apostles&#8217; teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and the prayers.</p>
<p>Eph 2:8  for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;<br />
Eph 2:9  not of works, that no man should glory.<br />
Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.</p>
<p>1Jn 1:6  If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:<br />
1Jn 1:7  but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.<br />
2Jn 1:9  Whosoever goeth onward and abideth not in the teaching of Christ, hath not God: he that abideth in the teaching, the same hath both the Father and the Son.</p>
<p>Sounds like &#8220;Biblical&#8221; salvation if I ever heard it.</p>
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		<title>By: C Michael Patton</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3298</link>
		<dc:creator>C Michael Patton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/09/10/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/#comment-3298</guid>
		<description>T on the last one :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-3298" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('3298', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-3298-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>T on the last one <img src='http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: chrismw</title>
		<link>http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/09/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/comment-page-1/#comment-3296</link>
		<dc:creator>chrismw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/2007/09/10/theology-unplugged-what-is-the-true-church-5/#comment-3296</guid>
		<description>For those watching, lookie here.

Why does lover continually refer to this thing called &quot;Bible&quot;?

Doesn&#039;t s/he know that word does not occur within itself?

TvF: The leather-bound collection of Ancient near eastern texts commonly placed behind church pews mentions the word &quot;Bible&quot;

TvF: Jesus or his Apostles refer to &quot;biblical salvation&quot; in the &quot;Bible&quot;

TvF: The Theology Program is mentioned in the &quot;Bible&quot;

good grief</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-3296" src="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('3296', 'add', 'www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-3296-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span></p><p>For those watching, lookie here.</p>
<p>Why does lover continually refer to this thing called &#8220;Bible&#8221;?</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t s/he know that word does not occur within itself?</p>
<p>TvF: The leather-bound collection of Ancient near eastern texts commonly placed behind church pews mentions the word &#8220;Bible&#8221;</p>
<p>TvF: Jesus or his Apostles refer to &#8220;biblical salvation&#8221; in the &#8220;Bible&#8221;</p>
<p>TvF: The Theology Program is mentioned in the &#8220;Bible&#8221;</p>
<p>good grief</p>
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