Frankly, I have not met a Calvinist that wasn’t …well…nasty tempered and hateful. Sorry to have to say that. And, as far as I can tell (at least so far) every Calvinist delights in the thought that “you” (whoever he is talking to or about) might not be elect (as he is) and is hated by God and will burn in Hell forever. Sheesh! What a religion…God deliver us from Calvinism!

Ah, yoo hooo… Tony…..

You rock.

Tony, while I am not a Calvinist, I think you have made a good point.

There is a general truth with all systematic theology, a danger that comes with the territory. Since we are trying to describe the ways of an infinite and, in so many ways, incomprehensible God with limited human language and a finite human understanding, we can only go so far in getting it right. We can only get approximations. Yes, we are made in God’s image, and our reasoning ability is God-given and meant for the study of the things of God, so there are some aspects we CAN “get” and the process is useful.

But what we tend to do is head off to systematize and categorize and develop a comprehensible theological construct, and once we have something in place we feel comfortable. But that construct, no matter how good it is, will be flawed and incomplete and, in most cases, just plain wrong in some parts. Yet, we are invested in it, attached to it, even have developed our self-identity to it in a lot of cases, so we do more with it than is justified. We twist and turn everything as needed to fit that construct regardless if it is a square peg for that round hole. Instead, we should step back and say, well, that doesn’t quite fit, I agree. I will just cling to my theological construct a bit more loosely in that area, and not push it too far.

Difficult to do.

Amen Tony. I am reminded of Paul’s words in Ephesians 4:1-3;

…walk worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Awesome post Tony…thanks!

This Dortian statement of caution is not sufficiently heeded among many self-described Calvinists:

“Finally, this Synod urges all fellow ministers in the gospel of Christ to deal with this teaching in a godly and reverent manner, in the academic institutions as well as in the churches; to do so, both in their speaking and writing, with a view to the glory of God’s name, holiness of life, and the comfort of anxious souls; to think and also speak with Scripture according to the analogy of faith; and, finally, to refrain from all those ways of speaking which go beyond the bounds set for us by the genuine sense of the Holy Scriptures and which could give impertinent sophists a just occasion to scoff at the teaching of the Reformed churches or even to bring false accusations against it.”

I do not call hyper-Calvinists “Calvinists.” They are really false Calvinists, as Andrew Fuller rightly labeled them. To reject the universal saving will of God and the universal love of God is not only a serious departure from biblical teaching, but also a departure from the Confessional teaching. I know that Michael would agree that genuine Calvinistic doctrine should not be judged by these fringe groups any more than evangelical Arminianism should be judged based on what Open View Theists teach. However, these exaggerated positions are unfortunately taken and portrayed as the genuine article.

Incidentally, all Christians should agree that God hates the non-elect. That is not what is at issue. The key difference with hypers concerns the idea that God ONLY hates the non-elect and does not love them as well. God hates all workers of iniquity, and that involves having a holy indignation against all unregenerate sinners, whether elect or not. The hypers, in their rash [filled with many false either/or dilemmas] and rationalistic theology, cannot grasp the distinct senses in which God can be said to both hate and love the non-elect at the same time, anymore than they can grasp how God loves and hates the unregenerate elect at the same time but in different senses. In their pride [not fearing James' admonition to not be many teachers], they do not heed the cautions of Dort, either in terms of their thinking processes or in how they treat other people. The doctrines are not used to serve others with a view to their well-being, but merely used as a club to defeat and shame their “opponents.” By this means, the ultimate adversary of our souls can obscure profound biblical truths and cause overreactions on all sides to the damage of Christ’s church. Otherwise comforting doctrines can become a source for the sowing of discord among brothers, which is an abomination to God according to Proverbs.

Grace to you,
Tony

OK Michael so when I can I break out my 12 Days of Calvinism?

It seems to make an appearance every 6 months or so. (Albeit it is intended for Christmas time…)

Exactly, Lisa, and well said.

My emphasis is study hard, seek God in all His revelations, dwell upon God, BUT be hesitant, cautious and humble about hard and fast constructs outside of absolute essentials of the faith. Do not avoid the learning and growth, and do not even avoid the discussion and dialogue, but avoid the prideful hubris of dogmatism.

And so many “isms” seem to lead in that direction.

You know, Vance, as someone who has come out of those circles and can attest to the mentality, I think it really comes down to us vs. God. In other words, a system of Christianity that suits us and caters to what we want out of it. I know that some would reject that, but in practice, rejecting serious theological study does just that.

Back to that balance that you are always driving, and rightly so, I think we have to keep the labels and the experience in perspective. After all, we want to hear “Well done thou good and faithful servant”. But I don’t believe it will be

“well done thou good and faithful servant, you have successfully navigated through the soteriological issues and have determined the right course of thought. You get a special crown for the right answer…Ding!”

Or

“well done thou good and faithful servant, you have figured it all out without careful investigation. Your experience has led you on the right path”

But rather

“well done thou good and faithful servant, you have been faithful in what I gave you”

He desires a life that is lived for HIM, that surrenders self. And the more we can learn about Him, the more it should prompt a continued learning and a continued dying. How sad it is that He has condescended to reveal Himself in scripture, that we would not take a systemized and thorough study of the scripture as well as the evolution of Christian thought serious and dismiss it as unspiritual.

Great posts guys.

Dan, you know we have talked about this before. It really depends which day it is and how you want to force the issue of unlimited atonement. At least I don’t redefine the word “world” every chance I get .

Joanie, I agree. There is always the temptation to jump theological ship, but don’t let that temptation overcome you.

Remember, God said, “Let him who boasts boast in this: that he understands and knows me.” Jer. 9:24

Understanding God is important, even if it does cause us to pull out our hair. That is how you know that bald people understand and know the Lord