Thanks for your input and the reminder to place greater confidence in God than we typically do day by day.

You referred to John 14:12, which states, “I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.” While I think that the miraculous is part of this, I don’t think that this passage is suggesting that we could actually “out-do” Jesus’ miracles!

A verse that helps give perspective to this passage in John is Matthew 11:11: “Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen [anyone] greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.” The “greater” here refers to that which is done in this new era ushered in by Christ and the giving of the Spirit. We are “greater” than John in the sense that John was “on the brink” without experiencing the poured-out gift of the empowering Spirit at Pentecost–let alone Jesus’ death and resurrection. So what is done by Christians after Christ’s ascension and the Spirit’s coming is in this sense “greater” than what was done by even Christ while on earth. Christ, the light of the world, calls us to be the light of the world so that we might bring His glory to the nations. In this way, the Spirit uses our many “hands and feet” throughout the world, not merely through the ministry of Jesus; the result is a “greater” manifestation of the working of God’s power.

We must also keep in mind that God can use weakness to show His strength–not merely dramatic displays of power. But we must be bolder about trusting God for “greater” things than we presently do!

Joanie D.

In light of what I noted earlier, I wouldn’t want to say we–no matter how prayerful–can heal any time we want to. I do think, though, that we should be more expectant and bold so that we might see God at work in new ways, which is something that God Himself desires.

As for the question about deciding when to let someone die, we need to remember first of all that we all live in a fallen world and will die unless Jesus returns to establish the new heavens and earth–a new creation. When the “great organs” of our bodies–heart, lungs, and brain–start to (irreversibly) shut down, death is coming. God can still work even at this stage . . . or beyond (think of Lazarus in John 11! In fact, I’ve heard reports from credible sources about resuscitations from the dead in Jesus’ name). We must remember that death isn’t the worst thing that can happen to us, nor should we take every last measure to stave it off. The important issue, however, is that we start seeing with new eyes, trusting God more deeply, and taking risks.

What if a community was filled with people who were like Jesus, who could heal anyone just because they wanted to? What would that look like? When would we decide that it was time to just let someone die? Maybe this sounds like a silly question, but I do ponder about it.

Hey, I see there is a box to check so that we can be notified by email if there are follow-up comments now. Cool!

Joanie D.

You’ve piqued my interest in this book. It sounds somewhat similar to a book I read last year “Above All Earthly Pow’rs” by David Wells…although Wells doesn’t deal with the provocative question of why we see more obviously supernatural workings of the Spirit in the non-Western church than here in the sophisticated West. Perhaps another example of God using the foolish things to shame the wise?

Look forward to reading and hearing more on this subject…

Good perspective - thanks.

-steve

In terms of the specific recommendations JP makes, he first addresses the question of cessationism. He urges Christians who believe that miracles and divinely-wrought wonders (along with revelations) have ceased to reconsider this position. I would certainly agree.

Also, he encourages Christians to be willing to take risks in praying rather than worrying, “God might not answer this request.” Oftentimes, we shrink from praying because of this. He calls for “appropriate expectation” in which we ask boldly but gladly leave the results to God. There’s more that he says, but that’s a start. By the way, another book that emphasizes the importance of humbly expecting/asking more from God is Craig Keener’s *Gift and Giver: The Holy Spirit for Today* (Baker). Perhaps we grieve God’s Spirit by not appropriating various resources available to us that He would gladly bestow if only we asked.

As for the the Euangelion post that Chad mentioned, it raises the question, “Can we make the Spirit more active?” This isn’t the correct way to ask it, however. You don’t have to be a Calvinist to feel uncomfortable with this question! However, the non-Calvinist in me (!) keeps in mind what James 4 says: “You don’t have because you don’t ask.” (I could bring up lots of other verses about God’s gracious activity in response to prayer, but let this suffice.) We are called to ask of God (with right motives), and the text (here and many other places) implies that if we don’t ask, we jolly well may not or won’t receive anything as a result. We are called to ask—no doubt, more than we actually do. And God, in light of his foreknowledge, wisdom, and purposes, may bring about the answer to that prayer but (possibly) wouldn’t bring something about had we not asked. (I address some of the philosophical questions raised by foreknowledge, freedom, and prayer in my forthcoming Chalice Press book, *Loving Wisdom*; so I won’t go into that here.)

We aren’t manipulating God or demanding from God. We are simply asking as (hopefully humble) children ask a father, who has the freedom and power to grant our request–and the wisdom to know whether he should do so. The Spirit’s wonder-working activity is ultimately up to God, but God may graciously respond to prayers of expectation and boldness and act in a dramatic way—and not act if we don’t (as the Mark 6:3-6 passage suggests). And we must remember that God may not answer prayer and leave us in a weaker—but more dependent—condition so that His grace may be all the more evident, as 2 Cor. 13 reminds us. That said, I, frankly, believe much of the problem has to do with our prayerlessness and our lack of boldness. Think of how we depend upon technology and methods and programs to do “God’s work,” and we often stand chastened when we visit Christians in developing countries who are bold in prayer and regularly see remarkable workings of God. As Ephesians 3 reminds us, God is able to do more than we can ask or imagine according to his power within us, but the question is, “Will we take this to heart?”

I’ll reiterate one of them - If the examples given are not simply an aspect of the differences in our culture but God is actually withholding something from us, what is the prescribed solution that Dr. Moreland provides?

Among others… the link is already provided above should others wish to check them out.

-steve

God Bless.

I thought the book was very good, it spelled out the trouble the (Western) church faces and how we need to fix it by balancing reason, spiritual formation and the Holy Spirit. I thought the most interesting part (besides the invaluable bibliography in the back) was his reminder to us that Christianity is a supernatural religion. He states that outside the Western church the Spirit is very active with mass conversions and miracles. According to him the majority of 3rd World conversions are directly the result of miracles and signs.

I don’t disagree with him, and he was very careful to separate this from the excesses of Pentecostalism, but I found myself wishing the Christianity I see was more supernatural. It seems to be the biblical and early church model, but seems much different than what we see today. It seems we are almost deists by default as the Spirit does not seem to move in our sphere in obvious ways like it apparently does elsewhere.

My question is why? Is the Spirit not willing/able to do so because our naturalist mindset does not allow it? At first glance, it seems to me that the Spirit can and will do whatever it wants regardless of our mindset. But Mark 6 seems to imply that the actions of the Spirit can be limited by unbelief:

Mark 6:3-6

“Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him. And Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor, except in his hometown and among his relatives and in his own household.” And he could do no mighty work there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and healed them. And he marveled because of their unbelief.

And he went about among the villages teaching.”

Are we left only with the teaching of the Word because we do not believe the Spirit can work miracles today?

The flip side is, if I engage in spiritual formation, etc. will this make the Spirit more active externally to the point of supernatural healing, etc.

A vision of a church acting with supernatural power is great to dream about…(Let Dawkins call that a delusion!!) but I guess its the calvinist in me that feels its the Spirit’s decision and not mine.

Is the Spirit choosing to work elsewhere and not here (I know, I know he is active here, but I mean on a less obvious, more behind the scenes level, read the book and the attested miracles that occured overseas and you’ll know what I mean) or are we quenching it?

I really want to know!!