[...] New York Times’ bestseller list since it was released in 2004.  Though I have not read the book, Michael Patton argues that this form of apologetical argument is insufficient and dangerous. One of his strongest [...]

Okay! We shouldn’t believe what Mr Piper has said about heaven because it could have been a dream, hallucination etc. etc.
Tracie Hall, you have said there are many examples in Scriptures about a person appearing “dead” but not really being dead. All the incidents in the scriptures you’ve given are illustrations of the power of prayer for healing.
Even if we don’t believe Mr Piper went to heaven his book still shows the enormous power of prayer and God’s love on his journey to healing. (I also wanted to point out that I think Miss Hall’s “near-death” is probably a very good word for what happened to Mr Piper, because though he “went to heaven” he didn’t actually go through those gates and meet Jesus etc.)

Mr Piper didn’t want to share his experience for a reason: He thought people would doubt it. There are a few slants you can take on his book:
1) We cannot believe a word a he says because it does not align with Scripture etc.
2) We can take what we want from the story like the power of prayer, God’s love, healing, fellowship etc. but leave out the heaven bit.
3) God wants as many people to be saved as possible. So maybe (and I’m no theologan, so sorry) like Greg said at his comment #14 God gave Mr Piper – a faithful child of Jesus – his experience of heaven with a bigger purpose in mind, something that transcends the realm of our eschatology? God is so much bigger than us we cannot understand eveyrthing he does. Maybe – put in simple language – He is changing His approach to cater for our 21st century non-believers, so they can see His love and know of His kingdom and be saved.

I know lots of people are going to have something to say to point #3 and I probably won’t be back to comment again because this is not meant to be a debate. I just depends on your slant, I guess, and in the end the only book we really need to believe is the Holy Bible.
God Bless you all!

We have to be careful about books like this that seem to contradict where the scriptures speak on a particular situation or issue.
The word “once” in Hebrews 9:27 is the Greek word hepax, which means “once, one time.” The author says very plainly right here: “And just as it is appointed for man to die once.” We only get one chance at life. Once breath runs out of us, we are dead, “and after that comes judgment.” This one verse would seem to shed light on these “experiences.” It would interpret those experiences as what they are: “near-death.” Not death. When a person’s heart stops, it doesn’t mean they have died. There are many examples in Scriptures about a person appearing “dead” but not really being dead (Matt. 9:24; Mark 5:39; Luke 8:52; Acts 9:40, 20:10).

A person cannot see the afterlife of heaven or hell and then go back. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is a prime example. In Luke 16, the rich man begged Abraham to send Lazarus to his father’s house to tell his family to change their ways of living, “lest they also come into this place of torment.” This seems like one of the “warnings” we hear from someone who just had a near-death experience. The rich man continued, “If someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.” Then Abraham replied, “If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.” We see from Luke 16 that after the rich man died, he was in a place of judgment. Revelation 20:14 talks about the lake of fire-which is hell. This is called the “second death.” If someone were to die once, and then die finally, and then be thrown into hell, that would be three deaths! The arithmetic does not add up according to Scripture. Therefore, on the issue of “near-death experiences,” we must say that they may be dreams, visions, or hallucinations, but we cannot say that a real death has occurred in which a person has seen the gates of heaven or the fires of hell. Furthermore, in John 3:3, Jesus said to Nicodemus, “Truly, truly, I say to you unless one is born-again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” This verse tells us that unless you are a child of God and have a new life in Christ, you cannot even see the kingdom. So, it makes no sense that people who have had these experiences can say, “I saw the pearly gates” or “I was in heaven, talking with loved ones and Jesus.” It simply does not mesh with the word of God.

“I would be more inclined to believe this story if it came from someone who was not so educated in 21st century western Christian folk theology.

Thoughts?”

One wonders too about certain other experiences in dreams. They can seem so real at the time.

I’m certainly not questioning Mr. Piper’s sincere belief that this happened to him, only whether it was real, or an ideal scenario or wish that he simply lived out in a dream.

As far as evangelizing with a book like that, (while it is a moving story), I think I would find that somewhat dubious, because it stresses his positive experiences of death and heaven, rather than putting the main emphasis on the gospel itself.

I personally love Don Piper’s book. I don’t think we should quibble over facts about the appearance of heaven etc., just rejoice that we praise such an awesome God and be happy that our Lord Jesus has prepared a place for us in his kingdom!! Does it matter if the gates are described as pearly in Revelations and pearlescent or something different in Piper’s book – NO! Human words are not adequate to describe such sensations we will experience in heaven. (And let’s face it – though the Bible is inspired by God, revealed to those who wrote it, it still had to be written down in human words and has been translated and re-translated into hundreds of languages, so human words may not depict the picture in same awesome terms used in heaven.)

I believe that Piper’s experience was genuine. Someone made a comment further up the page…that he must be making lots of money (implying that he’d made it all up). COME ON! This man is a pastor, living his life for the Lord and the people, I’m sure money’s not what he wrote this book for. I’m quoting from Chapter 12, Piper’s friend David Gentiles says to him: “Why do you think you experienced heaven if you’re not supposed to share it?” Then he says: “Is it possible that God took you to heaven and brought you back for you to share what happened to you? Don’t you realize what a powerful encouragement you can be to others?”
And Piper shares with us so many testimonies about how the story of his death has helped those grieving over loved ones, those dying and in bad shape and even brought people to salvation!
That is powerful!

I recommend this book to anyone. Of course the Bible should be the foundation of your faith, but if you feel like something different 90 Minutes in Heaven is a very inspirational book that will improve your relationship with God and you’re excitment to be with him in everlasting life. (And it is great to evangelise your non-believer friends and coleagues with because it’s readable enough and doesn’t look intimidating to them! Try it!)

God bless!

When I hosted a book sale I received numerous donted books.
90 seconds in heaven being one of them, it’s not a book I would usually read but for whatever reason I picked it up and over the course of 2 weeks read it in various waiting rooms.

Greg I find your thoughts very well thought out and VERY conceivable. ie.. we both ‘witness’ an a purse snatching, yet each of us will discribe the snatcher, the purse and other variables differently. and what about abstract art and it’s interpreatation.

Back to the book, what I got from the book had nothing to do with what heaven “looked like or who was there to great me” what touched me and encouraged me to keep the faith and strenght was … here is a man of Faith, questioning why he was sent back, why the pain and suffering, a man with depression and all the things that come from physical or emotional trama as well as chronic illness. How he learned from all these experiences, learned to allow others to show love, realizing they to are feeling helpless. Looking for and finding ways to take the experience and bring good to others as well as a spiritual and emotional growth for self.
Something Greg said… also can apply so to speak… Don Piper experincing what so many others have or will go through is someone who speaks from experince and knowledge of being there… not heaven… but in the throws of dispare, depression, pain, and questioning…. it is easier to understand and listen to someone Who Has been in your shoes. There is no way Don or anyone can tell me what “my” heaven will look like. I would not take stock in anyone’s account of what heaven looks like. I feel he wrote the book to share more than ‘what heaven looked like’

I think it was a great book, we all could learn from his expereince of pain, compassion, empathy and apply the lessons to our lives. Why was he afraid to share his experience from the begining……. people wouldn’t believe.

Personally, I’m not a fan of this book. I take these kinds of things with a grain of salt. But at the same time there are a lot of things I do not know.

I have heard it said that, in order to convey revelation to humanity, God had to accommodate Himself in various ways so that those whom He was talking to could understand him. For example, He spoke to people in their language, not some angelic of godly language. Or He became human in the ultimate act of accommodation.

There was also a time, in Acts 2, when the power of the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples, and when they spoke, all those present heard in their own language.

This is interesting because that would mean in between the speaking and the hearing, God was changing the language to that of the hearer. It would be like me talking in English, and you hearing it in Spanish, and another hearing the same thing in French.

I think that is another example of God accommodating His revelation to those hearing it. Either to show them a miracle to confirm a message, or to allow them to understand. Probably both.

What I am getting at in all this is that what if God accommodated “Heaven” to Jon Piper’s folk theology? What if God did that with a bigger purpose in mind, something that transcends the realm of our eschatology? Certainly the book has had a strong impact on America.

I know its a radical thought, and I wouldn’t know what it would mean in the big picture of things. But could it be a possibility? God has done similar things in the past, I think.

I must say that you have made a very believable presentation in regard to Don Pipers false belief that he visted heaven. The fact that his visit is not consistent with the bible is a convincing fact. However, I tend to not be so dogmatic in regard to other individual’s experiences. Therefore, I am going to go with number 3 in that perhaps there was a visit to the eternal and Mr. Piper misinterpreted what he saw. The key word here being saw because again, neither you or I can emphatically say what the man saw or experienced.

What about people who have visted the afterlife and are not Christians who have visted heaven and…Hell. Could they all be aluding to a figment of their imaging.

Finally, if Don Piper did not see the afterlife, why did he not want to live here on Earth?, and what cause him to endure such great physical pain?

One thing is clear, he did die. Beyond this we do not know what happen.

Thank-Johnny

To dmcdmc I would say the main point of what I believe the review of the book was trying to convey is that scripture not the testimonies of NDE people should be the final authority on what the after life is like regardless of your particular opinion of NDE in general and whether these are authentic. I think it is right to question a description of the afterlife that is at odds with scripture even if you in principle believe in NDE. If these NDE people later teach doctrines that they supposedly received from God that are not in harmony with scripture, scripture and not there abberant teaching should have authority.

The Deaths of the Apostles