Comments on: Ethics and Truth-telling http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/ The theology blog of Reclaiming the Mind Ministries featuring blogs by C. Michael Patton, Daniel B. Wallace, Rob Bowman, and Paul Copan Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:01:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: Paul Copan http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-5655 Paul Copan Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:16:50 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-5655 For those who think such a hierarchical ordering of ethics is relativistic, we could perhaps ask them if they leave their house lights on when they are on vacation! It's also helpful to keep in mind that we are talking about "all things being equal" (prima facie) obligations. We are obligated to keep our promises, but sometimes we may not be able to keep them--but we're still obligated to explain to the other person why we weren't able to fulfill that obligation (e.g., car broke down, etc.). I think that even the most rigid critics of a hierarchy of ethics must recognize that we don't tell the truth in the same way to all people because of the differing relationships we have to them. Are we obligated to tell the truth to all people in the same manner that we are to our spouses? Of course not! How much more when it comes to war or criminal activity--which leads us to the further point that we have clear biblical precedent for the legitimacy of deception in certain clear instances (warfare and criminal activity). These seem to illustrate the hierarchy of ethical considerations without giving way to relativism. This hierarchy doesn't diminish the truth that murder or rape or torturing babies for fun is always wrong and that there is no justification for it. Such acts can hardly be relativized by circumstances or motivations! For those who think such a hierarchical ordering of ethics is relativistic, we could perhaps ask them if they leave their house lights on when they are on vacation!
It’s also helpful to keep in mind that we are talking about “all things being equal” (prima facie) obligations. We are obligated to keep our promises, but sometimes we may not be able to keep them–but we’re still obligated to explain to the other person why we weren’t able to fulfill that obligation (e.g., car broke down, etc.).
I think that even the most rigid critics of a hierarchy of ethics must recognize that we don’t tell the truth in the same way to all people because of the differing relationships we have to them. Are we obligated to tell the truth to all people in the same manner that we are to our spouses? Of course not! How much more when it comes to war or criminal activity–which leads us to the further point that we have clear biblical precedent for the legitimacy of deception in certain clear instances (warfare and criminal activity). These seem to illustrate the hierarchy of ethical considerations without giving way to relativism.
This hierarchy doesn’t diminish the truth that murder or rape or torturing babies for fun is always wrong and that there is no justification for it. Such acts can hardly be relativized by circumstances or motivations!

]]> By: SteamrollerPhilosopher http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-5327 SteamrollerPhilosopher Sat, 16 Jun 2007 07:46:43 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-5327 Hierarchal ethics of this sort is often criticized by folks who think it’s relativistic. How should the Christian thinker defend objective moral values given hierarchal ethics? Thanks for your ministry, Paul! Hierarchal ethics of this sort is often criticized by folks who think it’s relativistic. How should the Christian thinker defend objective moral values given hierarchal ethics? Thanks for your ministry, Paul!

]]> By: Paul Copan http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-5293 Paul Copan Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:05:15 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-5293 Thanks for your encouraging words, "Steamroller Philosopher." The book (title still to be determined) will be out next year with Baker Books. Thanks for your encouraging words, “Steamroller Philosopher.” The book (title still to be determined) will be out next year with Baker Books.

]]> By: SteamrollerPhilosopher http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-5286 SteamrollerPhilosopher Fri, 15 Jun 2007 22:56:21 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-5286 Paul, when is your book out? Paul, when is your book out?

]]> By: SteamrollerPhilosopher http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-5285 SteamrollerPhilosopher Fri, 15 Jun 2007 22:54:45 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-5285 I love this stuff! When is your book out? I love this stuff! When is your book out?

]]> By: Threepwood http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-4856 Threepwood Fri, 01 Jun 2007 23:46:40 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-4856 I agree completely. Thanks for the correction. I agree completely. Thanks for the correction.

]]> By: Paul Copan http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-4853 Paul Copan Fri, 01 Jun 2007 23:30:16 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-4853 Thanks for the comments! I'm certainly an advocate of ethical standards! Keep in mind, though, that Scripture doesn't portray the Hebrew midwives in Egypt or Rahab as doing anything evil. In fact, they are commended *for* deceiving in order to protect life (they fear God rather than the authorities). And--this is important--*God himself* encourages Samuel to use deception if necessary with the irrational Saul. Again we are not obligated to tell the truth to those who have forfeited their right to it by engaging in criminal activity or ruthless oppression. That is, ys, deception is not ideal in such instances. It would be better to have different conditions. But given that such evil oppressors exist, deception is justified--and not as being the lesser of two evils. Again, thanks for your input! All best, Paul Thanks for the comments!

I’m certainly an advocate of ethical standards! Keep in mind, though, that Scripture doesn’t portray the Hebrew midwives in Egypt or Rahab as doing anything evil. In fact, they are commended *for* deceiving in order to protect life (they fear God rather than the authorities). And–this is important–*God himself* encourages Samuel to use deception if necessary with the irrational Saul. Again we are not obligated to tell the truth to those who have forfeited their right to it by engaging in criminal activity or ruthless oppression. That is, ys, deception is not ideal in such instances. It would be better to have different conditions. But given that such evil oppressors exist, deception is justified–and not as being the lesser of two evils.

Again, thanks for your input!

All best,

Paul

]]> By: Threepwood http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-4851 Threepwood Fri, 01 Jun 2007 23:15:36 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/05/31/ethics-and-truth-telling/#comment-4851 By no means, ethical standards do exist. Telling a lie to a Nazi to protect innocent Jews is the lesser of two evils. That does not take away the fact that it is still an evil, however more good will come out of it than the other. We still have to pay for lying, but then again, that's why Christ came right? Great commentary. God Bless. By no means,
ethical standards do exist. Telling a lie to a Nazi to protect innocent Jews is the lesser of two evils. That does not take away the fact that it is still an evil, however more good will come out of it than the other. We still have to pay for lying, but then again, that’s why Christ came right?

Great commentary.
God Bless.

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