Great comments. I often think about this and then wonder why He said “It is finished” before He died. This seems like it implies that the atonement was complete before His death, which in turn allowed Him to give up His spirit.

It might surprise you to know I am a Calvinist, albeit a relatively new one. I appreciate your response, however, I still hold to my view. I believe that Christ

You comments are in line with that of a governmental theory of the atonement, not the traditional penal substitutionary theory. The governmental view can still be thought of as a substitution for sin, but not a substitutions for sins (plural) which, according to the penal view, understands that Christ took the punishment vicariously for all our sins.

I am of the traditional protestant reformed tradition believing in a penal substitution for sins. I think the primary passage which compels me in this regard is that of Isa 53.

53:5 He was wounded because of our rebellious deeds, crushed because of our sins; he endured punishment that made us well; because of his wounds we have been healed. All of us had wandered off like sheep; each of us had strayed off on his own path, but the Lord caused the sin of all of us to attack him.

Notice in particular, the sin that fell upon him, in this context is “our rebellious deeds.” I believe that He suffered, not just death, but as a penal substitution for our sins.

Other, usually of the Arminian persuasion, will take the stance that you have with a more governmental view.

Thanks again!

Michael

The only part I disagree with is you questioning “Why is it that He was off the Cross in six hours, payment made in full?” It appears you are viewing the cross as a one-to-one payment of our sins, with each sin resulting in an element of suffering for Christ. But we know from Romans 6:23 that the wages of sin is death, not suffering. So it was Christ

1 John 3:1-10 and 1 John 5:16-17 might also be helpful. In all these verses the word “brother” can be found, so it does not refer to unbelievers or Pharisees who refuse to believe in Jesus
or falsely accused Jesus of driving out demons with the help or power of the prince of demons.

If a person’s sin is forgiven, is that person still a sinner?
(Luke 7:47-50)

I don’t mean being sinless in this life, but being considered sinless by God the Father because of what God the Son did.(John 1:12-13)

My thought process was the sin was irrelevant for Non-Christians in a way - in that God isn’t necessarily using it do draw them closer to Him like he is Christians. However, after hearing that out loud, it’s probably an incorrect statement too. My guess is that God is using all/many things in the life to draw all of us closer to him - we just have to open our eyes to see it.

I’ve never read any C.S. Lewis actually - I’ll try and pick that up.

I think that your articulation “They are in hell for all eternity because that is where they would rather be is great.” Have you ever read C.S. Lewis’ The Great Divorce? A masterpiece on this issue! Says the same thing is such a creative and captivating style. The book is very short too!

It seems to me that after your initial sin (which I’ll agree is your ‘born with’ rebellion against God); all other sin is simply used by God to grow you closer to him through the conviction of that sin. For a non-Christian, or Christ-Follower ;), sin is really irrelevant, correct? But for Christians, sin is God’s way of keeping us inline with His will. So to me, I was going to hell either way, whether I sped today or didn’t, or convicted murder today, or didn’t (had I not accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior).

Not sure if that makes sense - it does in my head, but I don’t think I articulated it as clearly - sorry. I think it’s inline with blog.

So to have a quick little Calvinist fun with you (cause that’s where I left off with my other posts) - is this sentence really accurate for you?
They are in hell for all eternity because that is where they would rather be.
Not looking for a response here, unless you feel obliged - just caught my eye

Thanks for the blog.

Thanks for the comments. I appreciate your focus. I surely don’t want to undermine white lies or floating of stop signs, but just to bring them into perspective.

Michael

The holiness of God demands that not even one white-lie is acceptable.

It makes us ponder with awe and gratitude the work of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that He was sinless through His whole life on earth.

May praise and glory be to Him forever and ever.

I think the example you used is a caricature.

I think your syllogism is wrong. It might also go something like this:

1. Everyone who sins is a sinner.
2. Sinners deserve hell.
3. You’ve sinned, therefore you’re a sinner.
4. You deserve hell.

So, while I think you’re correct that sinners deserve hell because they are sinners and in perpetual rebellion against God, many people fail to realize they are sinners unless you point out their sin, particularly if by the standards of society, they are good people.

Meanwhile, even if a preacher believes as you say he believes, I’m not sure this particular statement is quite the crisis you make it out to be.

Santos

I am so sorry that he has such a burden to carry each day. I know that this burden must be difficult for you as well. I will pray for you both as well.

Michael