Oh well, I guess it is on to something else for discussion.

I don’t think you can take that one cannot continually live in sin from “he that is born of god doth not commit sin, and he cannot sin”. If one cannot do something, it is not the same as someone does not continually do something. And I understand, about the whole not responding to this conversation. We just see things totally different I guess. That’s ok with me, you have not injured me at all, and I certainly hope the same for you.

Bible Study,

May I suggest that you read these two commentaries from well known Bible commentators from the past? The links I am giving are for the first chapter of first John. Read what they both have to say about the verses we have discussed about sin and the Christian (or the unbeliever as you think it to mean), in that chapter.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/commentaries/comm_view.cfm?AuthorID=7&contentID=3086&commInfo=6&topic=1%20John&ar=1Jo_1_8

http://www.blueletterbible.org/commentaries/comm_view.cfm?AuthorID=4&contentID=1848&commInfo=5&topic=1%20John&ar=1Jo_1_8

Most commentators and teachers/pastors etc that I know believe the verses in I John that say we can not sin mean something to the effect of we can’t continually live in sin as a Christian, not that we never sin at all. I have read that the Greek grammar supports this but I do not know if that is correct or not.

And please remember, if your understanding is correct, Peter, Paul, the two women Paul spoke of, etc. were none of them Christians. Even though it makes it very plain in the Bible that they were.

I probably won’t be able to continue this conversation anymore as I don’t believe I have the time or energy for it at this point. Just so you know why if I don’t reply to anymore comments that you make.

Also those verses you quoted go on to speak that these things are disobedience. The wrath of God comes on the “children” of disobedience because of these things, according to this scripture. Using only that, you could see the truth if you would. For the scripture speaks many more times of the disobedient, that they will not inherit the kingdom of God. Thessalonians says those who ‘obey not” will be punished with an everlasting destruction. If you sin, you are not obeying and will be punished with destruction. However, whosoever believes will not perish. Therefore, those who believe (because they will not perish must not be disobedient) doing the things that brings wrath.

I do not disagree with that. He is speaking to Christians, but do you realize that Paul knew that this would be read in the congregation where many unsaved would be. Paul knew the words he wrote, to Christians, would also be seen, heard, and read by the unsaved. You are using logic, natural only to understand the bible, like why would he tell christians not to sin if they couldn’t anyway. you thought this didn’t make sense. However, the verse you just quoted, mentioned that they were dead already right? So why did he tell them to “mortify” or kill what is already dead? Like I said before the bible is complicated for a reason. People will see what they want and believe what they want. God sent strong delusion that many would believe a lie and be damned that had pleasure in unrighteousness and would not cease from sin. Again, through your own reasoning, why would he tell those who are already dead to mortify themselves? Clearly because he knew some would hear these words who were not dead yet. Again, what do you do with basically the entire book of 1 John among many other scriptures that teach Christians do not sin? Namely, the parts “he that sinneth is of the devil”, “he that is born of God doth not commit sin, and he cannot sin because he is born of God”, etc., etc., etc. We cannot use natural logic, reasoning and understanding with the word of God. This is a spiritual book with hidden wisdom. The world by wisdom does not know God, yet many believe they do and continue in sin. If we sin one sin, what makes us better than those who sin multiple times every day? Sin makes us guilty, regardless of how many or how big the sin may be. No unclean thing will touch the mountain of God, not even one slightly unclean thing. Except we repent, we will perish regardless of what anybody thinks or believes. Please address the scriptures I have presented to you many times without response.

Yes Bible Study, he is talking to Christians Just look at these verses in Colssians:

“For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, [who is] our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry……”
Colossians 3:3-5

Noitice he is talking to those who are dead, whose life is hid with Christ and who will appear with Him in glory. Then he tells them that because of this they are to put to death all of these evil things in themselvs. They couldn’t put them to death if they weren’t there to put to death now could they?

Is he really speaking to Christians? The corinthians had many unsaved, carnal people inside the church. Paul was addressing those who continue in sin. Anyway, those verses I have asked about many times continue to go unaddressed. Why is that? Because they are clear, I think. They need no explanation. While other verses can be interpreted different ways, such as the ones you have mentioned. We should base other scriptures off the clear doctrine of clearly defined scripture. The scriptures must all fall in line with one another. If one set of scriptures seems to contradict the others, we should stay close to the scriptures that are clearly defined. We can argue whether or not he was speaking to Christians, interpretations of these verses will vary, but the ones that say “he that is born of god cannot commit sin” are not open to private interpretation, and well no scripture really is. However, many seek to misinterpret the scripture, to make it fit their own life, even when their interpretation clearly negates other clearly defined scripture.

The trouble is Bible Study, that you have had to totally redefine the meaning of “sin” in order to say that you are sin free.

Don’t you see any problems with that whatsoever?

And why do you think that Paul keep speaking to Christians mind you, the saved people, in I Corinthians, Galatians, Colossians, and Ephesians and telling them, them the saved, to put away everything that is in them of the flesh and not do those things anymore? If the minute they were saved all of this sin was gone and they never did these things anymore, or as you seem to assert, were made so perfect that they coudn’t sin anymore, what is the point of Paul’s insructions?

Think about it. That doesn’t make sense does it? And it doesn’t work if you believe sins are actual sins of the flesh or if you believe sin is only in the deeper spiritual meaning that you talk about.

I mean, really, why would you tell people to put away sins and stop doing stuff that they aren’t doing and can’t even do???

Beside all that, Anything is possible with God. What is so hard to believe about God being able to empower us to cease from sin? He is god, he can do it, and it does happen. If you cannot cease from sin, I don’t know what to tell you. I guess it is better to believe that we can continue in sin and be saved, even if it is not true. Otherwise we would be stuck in a life full of fear (if we could not or did not want to stop sinning completely), knowing that we are helpless and in trouble. However, regardless of what we believe, the truth is the truth. We must be careful not to deceive ourselves, because we cannot deceive God or change his word. You spoke of my confession, but I would rather have confession that I don’t sin, rather than having confession that I cannot stop. I would also rather have confession that I believe God, and believe he is capable of enabling us to cease from sin. Also, the bible tells us we are to suffer with Christ. The book of Peter again tells us if we “suffer” in the flesh, we have “ceased” from sin. If we do not suffer (cease from sinning), we will not reign with him, according to scripture. It is all throughout the bible, everywhere we turn, we cannot sin and be saved at the same time. What is so hard to see about that?

If you will not address the scripture that says, he that is born of god doth not commit sin because his seed remains in him, and he cannot sin. This is simple, and yes some things are hidden in metaphors. However, this verse in 1 John is simple. He that is born of God doth not commit sin and cannot sin because he is born of God. Are we not born of God when we are saved? Regardless of what anyone thinks, we most definitely are. The bible also is clear that the “seed”, Abrahams “seed” is Christ to be specific. So we are born of God, and the “seed” (which is Christ) remains in us, therefore we cannot sin. It is there, it cannot be denied along with many other scriptures that show we do not sin. Again, what about a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit. Again, it does not say it may or will bring forth only a little. And what about Romans 6 that ask, How are we who are dead to sin gonna live any longer therein. Know ye not to whom ye yeild yourselves servants, his servants you are whether of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness. Hey if you want to continue in sin, that is a choice you and only you can make, or rather God makes it for you. However, if we die in sin, where Jesus is we cannot go. Except we repent of sin, we will likewise perish. This is all scripture, I have laid it out many times, yet still unaddressed. They are there, and no one can make them go away, not even by ignoring them. If we continue in sin, we have not repented. To repent is to turn from our sin, not continue in it. We must repent and believe the gospel of Jesus or perish. The wages of sin is death. Peter also speaks of those who cannot cease from sin. What do you think “cease” means. I am pretty sure it means to stop. If you continue to do something, you have not ceased from it. This book tells us those who cannot cease from sin, are beguiling unstable souls, with a heart exercised with covetous practices, cursed children, who have gone astray.