Comments on: Was God’s purpose in creation to glorify Himself? http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/ Just another WordPress weblog Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:52:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: Jason C http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-13809 Jason C Mon, 01 Dec 2008 03:34:54 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-13809 If I picked up the Bible and read through the First Testament I would be struck by God's patience. The Israelites would not have survived if I had been God. If I picked up the Bible and read through the First Testament I would be struck by God’s patience.

The Israelites would not have survived if I had been God.

]]> By: Kevin http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-13792 Kevin Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:13:56 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-13792 I appreciate your blog on this subject. Having been to a church where the "chief purpose was to glorify God", I felt that there was this constant drive to somehow please God or gain his favor. A great friend of mine asked me the same question - what is man's chief purpose? I threw out "to glorify God" to bait him and he answered in a way that I found liberating: "our chief purpose is to love God" This is embodied in the greatest commandment that God expects from us - to love Him. Love implies relationship - glorification does not. Everyone, whether believer or not, "will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glorify of God the Father." I appreciate your blog on this subject. Having been to a church where the “chief purpose was to glorify God”, I felt that there was this constant drive to somehow please God or gain his favor.

A great friend of mine asked me the same question - what is man’s chief purpose? I threw out “to glorify God” to bait him and he answered in a way that I found liberating:

“our chief purpose is to love God”

This is embodied in the greatest commandment that God expects from us - to love Him. Love implies relationship - glorification does not.

Everyone, whether believer or not, “will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glorify of God the Father.”

]]> By: laura http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-13075 laura Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:32:08 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-13075 Dear Mr Patton - I recently read Revelation 4.8-10 for the first time in quite sometime. For days I've been disturbed by the image that suddenly overtook me; that of God sitting egotistically on His throne as the four creatures and twenty-four elders bowed and threw down their crowns worshiping day and night without rest forever and ever. I have never considered my Lord and Savior as a possible self-centered egotistical God until that moment. I've talked with a few people about it, but none were able to give an explanation that satisfied. When I came across this website and began reading your reasons for not subscribing to the "egotistical God" school of thought, I found for the most part an element of consolation. But when you finally quoted scripture to substantiate your theology my heart lept within me and I was instantly comforted by the treasures He has given through His word. Thank you, for taking the time to share and encourage. Dear Mr Patton - I recently read Revelation 4.8-10 for the first time in quite
sometime. For days I’ve been disturbed by the image that suddenly overtook
me; that of God sitting egotistically on His throne as the four creatures
and twenty-four elders bowed and threw down their crowns worshiping day
and night without rest forever and ever. I have never considered my Lord
and Savior as a possible self-centered egotistical God until that moment. I’ve
talked with a few people about it, but none were able to give an explanation
that satisfied.
When I came across this website and began reading your reasons for not
subscribing to the “egotistical God” school of thought, I found for the most
part an element of consolation. But when you finally quoted scripture to
substantiate your theology my heart lept within me and I was instantly
comforted by the treasures He has given through His word.
Thank you, for taking the time to share and encourage.

]]> By: C Michael Patton http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-3905 C Michael Patton Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:45:06 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-3905 Ouch! Ouch!

]]> By: Steve Groh http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-3895 Steve Groh Sun, 10 Aug 2008 16:24:43 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-3895 Mr. Patton states that someone handed a Bible for the first time would, upon reading it, , most likley "be overwhelmed by the generosity and mercy of God." If he truly believes that a person unfamiliar with Christianity would read the Old Testament and be struck by God's mercy and generosity...that simply illustrates his inability to distance himself from faith born presumptions. Mr. Patton states that someone handed a Bible for the first time would, upon reading it, , most likley “be overwhelmed by the generosity and mercy of God.”

If he truly believes that a person unfamiliar with Christianity would read the Old Testament and be struck by God’s mercy and generosity…that simply illustrates his inability to distance himself from faith born presumptions.

]]> By: Carl Hall http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-3871 Carl Hall Sun, 10 Aug 2008 02:09:43 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-3871 I disagree with you conclusions. As the previous comment states, to give any other reason for creation would subtilly remove God from the center of all things and place man there. But even more to the point, the Bible tells us that God's desire is for the whole earth to be filled with His glory. Numbers 14:21 But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD. Psalms 72:19 And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen. Habakkuk 2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. That may not be the stated purpose of creation but it comes pretty close to it. As to God being an egotist, I would submit that God is the only One worthy of being glorified. When God states He is holy, or sinless, or all powerful, He is not being arrogant but truthful. And when God places the understanding of why He demonstrates His kindness, His mercy, or His generousity into our hearts, and we understand it is so that we will see His worthiness and proclaim His glory, He is not being arrogant, just revealing the truth. He alone is worthy. 1 Peter 5:11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Lastly, to suggest that God created us so that He would have someone to show generousity or love toward (your last two thoughts), is to "deny His aseity" (a new term to me but an interesting one.) I disagree with you conclusions. As the previous comment states, to give any other reason for creation would subtilly remove God from the center of all things and place man there. But even more to the point, the Bible tells us that God’s desire is for the whole earth to be filled with His glory.

Numbers 14:21 But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.

Psalms 72:19 And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.

Habakkuk 2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

That may not be the stated purpose of creation but it comes pretty close to it.

As to God being an egotist, I would submit that God is the only One worthy of being glorified. When God states He is holy, or sinless, or all powerful, He is not being arrogant but truthful. And when God places the understanding of why He demonstrates His kindness, His mercy, or His generousity into our hearts, and we understand it is so that we will see His worthiness and proclaim His glory, He is not being arrogant, just revealing the truth. He alone is worthy.

1 Peter 5:11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Lastly, to suggest that God created us so that He would have someone to show generousity or love toward (your last two thoughts), is to “deny His aseity” (a new term to me but an interesting one.)

]]> By: Dee Mitt Roberts http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-3518 Dee Mitt Roberts Fri, 01 Aug 2008 23:26:46 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-3518 I take issue with your thesis. There is enough evidence to strongly suggest that God's purpose is to Glorify himself. To suggest otherwise is to subtley supplant God as the center of things and replace Him with man. God is the sum total of goodness. If this is so then it stands to reason that His glorification would be for the benifit of all. His glorification is the total saturation and application of righteousness in every aspect of creation. It is the glorification of God that is the restoration of total perfection and total holiness. Hence God's desire is to be glorified in all the earth because this means total restoration for all creation. I take issue with your thesis. There is enough evidence to strongly suggest that God’s purpose is to Glorify himself. To suggest otherwise is to subtley supplant God as the center of things and replace Him with man. God is the sum total of goodness. If this is so then it stands to reason that His glorification would be for the benifit of all. His glorification is the total saturation and application of righteousness in every aspect of creation. It is the glorification of God that is the restoration of total perfection and total holiness. Hence God’s desire is to be glorified in all the earth because this means total restoration for all creation.

]]> By: C Michael Patton http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-78 C Michael Patton Fri, 06 Apr 2007 03:42:19 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-78 Thanks Joanie! Thanks Joanie!

]]> By: JoanieD http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-77 JoanieD Fri, 06 Apr 2007 03:38:31 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-77 Michael said about God, "He was not in heaven twiddling his thumbs before creation and therefore decided to create us to avoid eternal boredom." Cute, Michael! And I agree with your conclusion, "I think the most natural conclusion from Scripture is to say that the God of the Bible created all of creation so that He could share of Himself." And I agree with Nate that it is great of you to take on the difficult questions. It takes an amount of bravery to put yourself out there like that. You do a wonderful job. Michael said about God, “He was not in heaven twiddling his thumbs before creation and therefore decided to create us to avoid eternal boredom.” Cute, Michael!

And I agree with your conclusion, “I think the most natural conclusion from Scripture is to say that the God of the Bible created all of creation so that He could share of Himself.”

And I agree with Nate that it is great of you to take on the difficult questions. It takes an amount of bravery to put yourself out there like that. You do a wonderful job.

]]> By: nathanimal http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-76 nathanimal Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:01:18 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-76 I would like that very much! Whenever you'd like to go. I would like that very much! Whenever you’d like to go.

]]> By: C Michael Patton http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-75 C Michael Patton Wed, 14 Feb 2007 05:51:41 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-75 Thanks Nate. We still need to get together for a bite sometime. Thanks Nate. We still need to get together for a bite sometime.

]]> By: nathanimal http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-74 nathanimal Wed, 14 Feb 2007 05:48:48 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-74 Hey Michael.....This subject for the most part has been ill-defined by so many well meaning leaders. Very good! Also wanted to let you know that I go to your blog everyday to read. The subjects that you discuss are evasive in most other Christian circles. I think your asking the hard questions, which I truly enjoy. Just wanted to give you my thanks for a blog with difficult subjects! Nate ;) Hey Michael…..This subject for the most part has been ill-defined by so many well meaning leaders. Very good!

Also wanted to let you know that I go to your blog everyday to read. The subjects that you discuss are evasive in most other Christian circles. I think your asking the hard questions, which I truly enjoy. Just wanted to give you my thanks for a blog with difficult subjects!

Nate ;)

]]> By: C Michael Patton http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-73 C Michael Patton Wed, 14 Feb 2007 04:15:25 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-73 Thanks so much ipod. That is encouraging and I will keep it up. God bless, Michael Thanks so much ipod. That is encouraging and I will keep it up.

God bless,

Michael

]]> By: ipodnation http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2007/02/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-72 ipodnation Wed, 14 Feb 2007 02:48:45 +0000 http://reclaimingthemind.org/devblog/index.php/2007/02/12/was-gods-purpose-in-creation-to-glorify-himself/#comment-72 Michael, Your article has helped clarified things for me in this nagging question that has bugged me for some time. Thank you so much for this and the many helpful and thoughtful articles that have ministered to me. God's blessing be upon your ministry and don't stop blogging! ;-) Michael,

Your article has helped clarified things for me in this nagging question that has bugged me for some time.

Thank you so much for this and the many helpful and thoughtful articles that have ministered to me.

God’s blessing be upon your ministry and don’t stop blogging! ;-)

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